Ardent build

[txhazard]

So my friend is starting a campaign to help flush out his eastern flavors of his home brew setting and i was told to roll a 40 pt build level 1 toon. No were not using oriental adventures at all.

I have chosen to play an Ardent because im a huge fan of psionics and its concept seemed pretty awesome sauce imo.

Psionics are rare in his world or at least in the nation we will be playing in, the only restriction is he wants me to choose my mantles with a "eastern way of thinking" the only mantle he has said no to was freedom, which is debatable imo but thats fine ill work around it.

I want to use the trick where you use vigor and share pain in tandem with a psicrystal.

What im trying to achieve is being a great front line combatant. Im thinking a dip or two into fighter (not psi warrior due to DM limitations im sure he has his reasons) for the extra feats.

Id appreciate any constructive criticisms and sage advice for the build. Does not "need" to progress to level 20 as the game may never reach that far.

Thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

Too bad, Freedom is exceedingly useful as a martial Ardent.

Creation is kinda fun. Astral Construct + a free feat on Ectopic Form(Emerald Gyre) gives you a flanking buddy and someone to grapple foes while you bludgeon them mercilessly.

Otherwise, Conflict is kinda nice, Law has some goodies, and Natural World has the awesome Metamorphasis.

[Master_Rahl22]

Have a look at the Ardent Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5871.0;wap2). If you are going to dip and don't mind being a bit low on PP, be sure to take Practiced Manifester. You can lose up to 4 ML and still end up with 9th level powers due to the way Ardents learn new powers based on their ML, not their class level.

One neat trick for whatever else you end up doing is to grab Hustle, Psionic Meditation, Linked Power, a feat like Psionic Weapon, and a Swift action power like Animalistic Power. You manifest Animalistic Power and link it to Hustle, then take your normal turn. Next round you get your focus back and still have a full round of actions to spend. The example he gives in the handbook is with psionic medication could also keep linking hustle to another hustle to keep focused and use deep impact over and over again. The tricks get even worse when you get schism.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Have a look at the Ardent Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5871.0;wap2). If you are going to dip and don't mind being a bit low on PP, be sure to take Practiced Manifester. You can lose up to 4 ML and still end up with 9th level powers due to the way Ardents learn new powers based on their ML, not their class level.

One neat trick for whatever else you end up doing is to grab Hustle, Psionic Meditation, Linked Power, a feat like Psionic Weapon, and a Swift action power like Animalistic Power. You manifest Animalistic Power and link it to Hustle, then take your normal turn. Next round you get your focus back and still have a full round of actions to spend.

Actually you can loose up to 7 manifesting levels, as you only need ML 17 for 9th level powers (13 Ardent levels + PM)

[dextercorvia]

Actually you can loose up to 7 manifesting levels, as you only need ML 17 for 9th level powers (13 Ardent levels + PM)

Earth Power and Overchannel would like to say "Hi," but they are flying away with a Torque of Powerpoint Preservation. I wouldn't go below Ardent 10, though, because of the Dominant Ideal ACF.

Edit: The Magic Mantle power has some interesting ramifications. It reads like the most permissive form of transparency, and then some.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Earth Power and Overchannel would like to say "Hi," but they are flying away with a Torque of Powerpoint Preservation. I wouldn't go below Ardent 10, though, because of the Dominant Ideal ACF.

Do Earth Power actually increases your ML? And I though the Torque only lowered the PP expenditure by one.

[dextercorvia]

Do Earth Power actually increases your ML? And I though the Torque only lowered the PP expenditure by one.

That still increases the level of Power you would be able to manifest.


She must be able to manifest the new power at the level at which she learns it, however.

[Cog]

Edit: The Magic Mantle power has some interesting ramifications. It reads like the most permissive form of transparency, and then some.
By my reading, treating them as identical doesn't make (edit: for example) "manifester level" the same as "caster level" any more than magic being magic means "divine caster level" is the same as "arcane caster level". The following line - "Most campaigns already treat them in this manner" - makes the intent pretty clear, I think.

[Dusk Eclipse]

That still increases the level of Power you would be able to manifest.

I am not really sure to be honest. I need to see the wording of Earth Power to be sure, and right now I don't have my books on hand.

[dextercorvia]

I didn't claim that. But usual transparency, doesn't call out feats and class features that may effect powers. This opens the possibility for that reading. It also opens the possibility for the reading you suggest that vanilla CL=ML.

[Cog]

I didn't claim that. But usual transparency, doesn't call out feats and class features that may effect powers. This opens the possibility for that reading. It also opens the possibility for the reading you suggest that vanilla CL=ML.
I should have been clearer; I meant that as only one example. I still think the second line is a pretty good suggestion that it's not meant to be a change from the default transparency rules.

[dextercorvia]

I am not really sure to be honest. I need to see the wording of Earth Power to be sure, and right now I don't have my books on hand.

It reduces the cost to manifest a power by 1 PP. Therefore if your ML is one shy of being able to manifest it normally, you still can, since you will end up paying PP=ML.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Doesn't power still have a minimum ML to manifest?

[Draz74]

By my reading, treating them as identical doesn't make (edit: for example) "manifester level" the same as "caster level" any more than magic being magic means "divine caster level" is the same as "arcane caster level". The following line - "Most campaigns already treat them in this manner" - makes the intent pretty clear, I think.

Well, IIRC it does imply that it allows you to treat Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device as the same thing, which normal transparency doesn't.

[dextercorvia]

I should have been clearer; I meant that as only one example. I still think the second line is a pretty good suggestion that it's not meant to be a change from the default transparency rules.

It may not be meant to be, but it is worded differently. If the really wanted it to be the same, then they should have used identical wording.

As it is, they are pointing out that if transparency is in effect, then there is some overlap. They never come out and say that this is exactly the same as transparency.

That line is part of an example (powers such as Dispel Psioinics work on magic, too). It then goes on to say that campaigns using transparency already treat them in this manner. If them means spells and powers from the ability text, and manner means identical, then the limitations on transparency make this a false statement. Instead, them must refer to those things in the example: powers like Dispel Psionics and manner must mean work on magic, too.

That they provided one example of what is meant by identical, doesn't mean that is the only effect. Certainly Spells should work on Psionics, too, etc.

[dextercorvia]

Doesn't power still have a minimum ML to manifest?

Like with spells, it is stated that you must meet the minimum ML to manifest a power, but never spells out what that ML is. For other classes, some will refer you to the spell or power table, but Ardents are only required to be able to spend enough points to manifest the power.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well I have always ruled that minimum C/M level to cast/manifest a spell is the one when you would normally have access to that level of spells (so 5 C/ML for level three powers or spells) But if that is the case...

But I am not comfortable for that trick in any case so I won't try to use it.

[dextercorvia]

Well I have always ruled that minimum C/M level to cast/manifest a spell is the one when you would normally have access to that level of spells (so 5 C/ML for level three powers or spells) But if that is the case...

But I am not comfortable for that trick in any case so I won't try to use it.

That is a good rule, and it works with most classes. There is just nothing in the Ardent description tying ML directly to powers known. It is all about powers they would be able to afford, which is only indirectly based on ML.

[txhazard]

Where do i acquire the Share Pain power for the vigor/share power crystal familiar?

Cant seem to find the exact way of pulling it off.

Cant seem to find it. :smallfrown:

[Cog]

The Pain and Suffering mantle gives you the Forced version. If you want the friendly version, it's a single Expanded Knowledge feat away.

[txhazard]

Thank you, thats what i thought but i wanted to be sure there wasnt a more effective way of doing it. Thanks for the insight guys keep it coming if you like :)

[Cog]

Well, to be completely thorough, there is the Substitute Powers (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) ACF. None of the mantles with a missing 2nd level power really match the theme at all, and the swapping is pretty dang cheesy, but it does technically get you there.

[txhazard]

Yeah all the ACF for ardent have been vetoed for me. bah!.

oh well, adapt and overcome.

[candycorn]

I like the Deception mantle (expend focus to get 50% miss chance for a round)...

Physical Power mantle is subtle, and has vigor.

Pain and suffering mantle also works well for a front line combatant. Give half the damage to the enemy.