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Elric VIII
2011-05-05, 10:17 PM
Original Post
So, this is the $1,000,000 question for the various spellcasters: How do I cheapen my metamagic?

I would like to find something along the lines of the capstone ability for Magical Trickster, but more useful. The specific thing that I'm looking for is the ability to enter the PrC with relatively little feat commitment. That is, Magical Trickster costs one metamagic feat (which any spellcaster would have) and it also grants a free one (nice, but not as important).

What I've got so far is:
Magical Trickster: 3rd level - 1/day add a free metamagic to a spell you cast.

Ultimate Magus: 3rd level - 3+.5 Class Level/day - pay for metamagic level increases with other class's spell slots.

Incantrix: 7th & 9th - 1 & 2/day - Free addition of a metamagic feat to a prepared spell that you cast.


None of those classes appeal to me for my particular build, does anyone have any suggestions (other than sudden metamagic and rods)?

Although, if there's a class that grants multiple bonus metamagic feats, sudden metamagic might be alright.


{table=head]Class|Type|Ability|Uses & Level(s)|Casting|Other|Book
Anima Mage | Arcane | Add a metamagic feat to a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 1/day @ 5th; 2/day@ 7th; 3/day @ 9th | 10/10 |Lose Vestige power for 5 rounds | ToM
Anima Mage | - | Cast a spell as an immediate action, Stilled and Silent | 1/day @ 10th | | -
Candle Caster (1) | Either | Create a candle (scroll) that has a second spell effect when the first expires | Item Creation @ 5th | 10/10 | | T&B
Candle Caster (2) | - | Create a candle (scroll) that triggers two spells simultaneously | Item Creation @ 9th | - | You must pay exp/gold for both spells | -
Escalation Mage (1) | Arcane | Heighten by +1 without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 1st | 5/5 | CL check DC 10+2 x (Spell Level) | FoE
Escalation Mage (2) | - | Empower without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 2nd | - | CL check DC 12+2 x (Spell Level) | -
Escalation Mage (3) | - | Widen without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 3rd | - | CL check DC 14+2 x (Spell Level) | -
Escalation Mage (4) | - | Quicken without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 4th | - | CL check DC 16+2 x (Spell Level) | -
Escalation Mage (5) | - | Use (1)-(4) without CL check | 1/day each @ 5th | - | Not applicable to highest level spell. | -
Incantrix (1) | Arcane | Add a metamagic feat to a spell that an ally is casting. | 3 + Int/day @ 2nd | 9/9 | DC 18 + 3x(new spell level) Spellcraft check | PGtF
Incantrix (2) | - | Add a metamagic feat to a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 1/day @ 7th; 2/day @ 9th| - || -
Incantrix (3) | - | Add a metamagic feat to a spell effect currently in place. | 3 + Int/day @ 3rd | - | DC 18 + 3x(new spell level) Spellcraft check | -
Magical Trickster | Either | Add a metamagic feat to a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 1/day @ 3rd|2/3|+4 adjustment or less| CS
Recaster (1) | Arcane | Apply Silent or Still Spell without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 1 | 4/5 | Changeling only. |RoE
Recaster (2) | - | Quicken a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 3/day @ 3 | - | - | - |
Recaster (3) | - | Sculpt* a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 5/day @ 5 | - | - | - |
Recaster (4) | - | Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Maximize, Widen a spell without altering the spell’s level. | class level/day @ 2 | - | Choose 2, @ 2nd & 4th | -
Sandshaper (1) | Arcane | Empower, Enlarge, Extend, Silence, or Still a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 3/day @ 5th; 4/day @ 7th | 8/10 | Must be near or carrying sand | -
Sandshaper (2) | - | Maximize or Widen a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 5/day @ 9th| - | Shares use pool with (1) | -
Spelldancer | Arcane | Add a metamagic feat of +X to a spell without altering the spell’s level. | Con + level/day|5/5 |Dance for X rounds, make DC 10+X perform check | MoF
Spellwarp Sniper | Arcane | Empower a ray spell spell without altering the spell’s level. | 1/day @ 5th | 5/5 | | CS
Ultimate Magus| Arcane | Add a metamagic feat to a spell without altering the spell’s level. | 3+ ½ x level/day | 7/10 & 10/10 | Prepared/Spontaneous theurge | CM
[/table]

Keld Denar
2011-05-05, 10:31 PM
Divine Metamagic for divine casters with Turn Undead.

Illumian NaenHoon rune combo works for arcane or divine spells as long as you have Turn Undead.

Recaster gets some free metamagic.

Practical Metamagic, Easy Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, and Metamagic School Focus all reduce MM costs by 1 in various ways.

Adrayll
2011-05-05, 10:42 PM
Metaphysical Spellshaper: lvl 1 - metamagic no longer raises spell level, instead, you take one point of ability damage for every level increased. Combine with whatever ability damage ablation shenanigan you choose to employ. The last two levels of it (3 level class) net you 3/3 casting progression, a metamagic feat, and lvl 3 drops the metamagic adjustment of any spell (even if you choose not to Cast From Hit Points (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CastFromHitPoints) by one (total, not per metamagic employed))

Divide by Zero
2011-05-05, 10:45 PM
Incantrix: 7th & 9th - 1 & 2/day - Free addition of a metamagic feat to a prepared spell that you cast.

I think you missed its far more powerful third-level ability. Doesn't matter if you don't want to use the class at all, though.

Maho-Tsukai
2011-05-05, 10:49 PM
If your open to 3rd party content check out "Encyclopedia Arcana: Dragon Magic." It features "dragomancy" which, despite sounding like a new spellcasting system is actually an addition to the already existing one and is based around the skill "Speak High Draconic" which is a skill that is always cross-class but allows a spellcaster to do many things to his magic, one of which is add metamagic effects to his spells for free(no spell-level increases) on the fly. The best part? You don't even need to have the proper feat to apply a metamagic effect to a spell with speak high draconic. So say you did not want to burn a feat on maximize spell but you could really use a maximized spell. Speak high Draconic allows that. This may SOUND unbalanced but it's actually a very balanced system since there is a LOT more to it then I am going to or care to mention here, including some VERY hefty drawbacks. The book is TECHNICALLY for 3.0 but easily transferable to 3.5e, though if you do I'd suggest upping the PrCs in it to at least 9/10 CL progression since it comes from the days when most caster PrCs had 5/10 CL progression even if they where not powerful enough to warrent such a nerf and the PrC in that book is NOT powerful enough to warrant the nerf 5/10 CL progression gives it.

Elric VIII
2011-05-05, 10:52 PM
Divine Metamagic for divine casters with Turn Undead.

Illumian NaenHoon rune combo works for arcane or divine spells as long as you have Turn Undead.

Recaster gets some free metamagic.

Practical Metamagic, Easy Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, and Metamagic School Focus all reduce MM costs by 1 in various ways.

I was considering DMM with a Sacred Exorcist dip. Great list on the reducers as well.


Metaphysical Spellshaper: lvl 1 - metamagic no longer raises spell level, instead, you take one point of ability damage for every level increased. Combine with whatever ability damage ablation shenanigan you choose to employ. The last two levels of it (3 level class) net you 3/3 casting progression, a metamagic feat, and lvl 3 drops the metamagic adjustment of any spell (even if you choose not to Cast From Hit Points (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CastFromHitPoints) by one (total, not per metamagic employed))

That's nice. I wonder if BoEF would fly in my group?


I think you missed its far more powerful third-level ability. Doesn't matter if you don't want to use the class at all, though.

Well, that applies to things already there. I was thinking about Twin/Repeat on summons (combined with Malconvoker 5 for some extra laughs). The reason I don't want to use it now is that I will be using it in annother build and I like to diversify. Although, can you use Metamagic Effect to apply Repeat Spell on a summoned creature to have a 2nd one come next turn?


If your open to 3rd party content check out "Encyclopedia Arcana: Dragon Magic." It features "dragomancy" which, despite sounding like a new spellcasting system is actually an addition to the already existing one and is based around the skill "Speak High Draconic" which is a skill that is always cross-class but allows a spellcaster to do many things to his magic, one of which is add metamagic effects to his spells for free(no spell-level increases) on the fly. The best part? You don't even need to have the proper feat to apply a metamagic effect to a spell with speak high draconic. So say you did not want to burn a feat on maximize spell but you could really use a maximized spell. Speak high Draconic allows that. This may SOUND unbalanced but it's actually a very balanced system since there is a LOT more to it then I am going to or care to mention here, including some VERY hefty drawbacks. The book is TECHNICALLY for 3.0 but easily transferable to 3.5e, though if you do I'd suggest upping the PrCs in it to at least 9/10 CL progression since it comes from the days when most caster PrCs had 5/10 CL progression even if they where not powerful enough to warrent such a nerf and the PrC in that book is NOT powerful enough to warrant the nerf 5/10 CL progression gives it.

Sounds like fixed Truenaming. Alas, my DM is not a fan of 3rd party. I'll look into it, I'm running a campaign soon and it might be a nice change from the norm.

Tvtyrant
2011-05-05, 10:54 PM
Sandshaper gets free maximize, empower, widen and extend up to 5 times a day sliced however you want. Maybe quicken too, can't recall.

Elric VIII
2011-05-05, 10:55 PM
Sandshaper gets free maximize, empower, widen and extend up to 5 times a day sliced however you want. Maybe quicken too, can't recall.

IIRC that only works in deserts, doesn't it?

Dexam
2011-05-05, 10:56 PM
Metamagic Song feat (Races of Stone) - spend uses of Bardic Music (1 per metamagic level) to negate the metamagic cost on spontaneously cast arcane spells. Bardic Music and any two metamagic feats as a pre-req, and won't work on metamagic'd Silent Spells.

Kylarra
2011-05-05, 10:59 PM
Escalation Mage out of Faiths of Eberron has some nifty metamagic tricks. You'd need an adaptation though since they're supposed to worship The Shadow.

Silva Stormrage
2011-05-06, 12:22 AM
IIRC that only works in deserts, doesn't it?

Or if you carry like 10 pounds of sand with you.

Doc Roc
2011-05-06, 12:28 AM
Spelldancer
Halruaan Elder

Tvtyrant
2011-05-06, 12:29 AM
IIRC that only works in deserts, doesn't it?

You can carry the sand with you, so it actually works everywhere! You only need 15 pounds of sand on you.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 12:50 AM
Spelldancer
Halruaan Elder

Spelldancer is nice for getting those all-day buffs full of metamagic, but not so much in a combat situation. I may use this on a gish (Persisted Wraithstrike anyone?) some time.

Where can I find Halruaan Elder?


You can carry the sand with you, so it actually works everywhere! You only need 15 pounds of sand on you.

lol.

Doc Roc
2011-05-06, 01:15 AM
Spelldancer is nice for getting those all-day buffs full of metamagic, but not so much in a combat situation. I may use this on a gish (Persisted Wraithstrike anyone?) some time.

Where can I find Halruaan Elder?



lol.

Shining South.

Also, Ocular spell.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 05:35 AM
Shining South.

Also, Ocular spell.

Thank you.

And God, no.

Darrin
2011-05-06, 05:47 AM
Divine Metamagic for divine casters with Turn Undead.

Illumian NaenHoon rune combo works for arcane or divine spells as long as you have Turn Undead.

Recaster gets some free metamagic.

Practical Metamagic, Easy Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, and Metamagic School Focus all reduce MM costs by 1 in various ways.

You forgot Midnight Metamagic (Magic of Incarnum). Good way to add a free Extend Spell or Sculpt Spell a couple times per day (particularly for Azurin druids... extended creeping cold does 21d6 damage, or one sculpted bolt from call lightning can hit 4-16 different targets). And if you want to crack the planet in half, you can add Psycarnum Infusion later.

Thurbane
2011-05-06, 06:03 AM
Anima Mage: trade a Vestiges powers for free metamagic (apply any one metamagic feat without level increase), up to 3/day at 9th level. Since you only lose the Vestiges powers for 5 rounds, you could, say, Persist 3 spells at the beginning of your day, essentially for free.

Almost forgot: as it's capstone, Anima Mage also gets to cast 1 spell/day as an immediate action, as if Stilled & Silenced.

Allanimal
2011-05-06, 06:09 AM
It isn't much, but while we're making a list...
Spellwarp Sniper (COmplete Scoundrel) gets a free empower 1/day on a ray spell or an area effect spell warped into a ray at 5th level.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 07:56 AM
It isn't much, but while we're making a list...
Spellwarp Sniper (COmplete Scoundrel) gets a free empower 1/day on a ray spell or an area effect spell warped into a ray at 5th level.

A list is a great idea.

I have a preliminary table, I'll add classes as we go and also do one for feats that offer reductions. I wonder if this type of list already exists?

dextercorvia
2011-05-06, 08:50 AM
Candle Caster can craft dipped and twin candles which have a quasi-quicken effect. (In the case of the dipped candle, choose an instantaneous duration spell for the first effect.) May still be combined with a swift action spell.

The Metamagic Catalyst utterance can apply specific metamagic to a scroll or potion.

Duskblades get the quick cast ability.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 03:59 PM
Is there a way to format the row/column width?

Thurbane
2011-05-06, 07:50 PM
Is there a way to format the row/column width?
I think you have to do it manually, but putting in --------------------- or similar.

dextercorvia
2011-05-06, 08:47 PM
You picked up the dipped candle (the consecutive one), but the truly awesome one is the Twin, which does two at once.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 10:20 PM
I think you have to do it manually, but putting in --------------------- or similar.

Ok, thanks.


You picked up the dipped candle (the consecutive one), but the truly awesome one is the Twin, which does two at once.

Wow, I missed that one.

Wings of Peace
2011-05-06, 10:24 PM
Tainted Scholar with a good way to raise the level of your spells is beastly. And at later levels Mind Mage (http://www.angelfire.com/pro/demon_1/prc_mind_mage.htm) is probably the strongest casting PRC in existence.

Elric VIII
2011-05-06, 10:25 PM
Tainted Scholar with a good way to raise the level of your spells is beastly.

I'll have to read up on the particulars of the class, but how does that help with metamagic? Free Heighten?

Wings of Peace
2011-05-06, 10:27 PM
I'll have to read up on the particulars of the class, but how does that help with metamagic? Free Heighten?

A. Check my ninja edit.

B. It's good because there are plenty of ways to raise the level of a spell but they typically require enough effort that they're not practical. With Tainted scholar as long as you can employ such a method at least once that's all that matters, it becomes the new cap for metamagic.

So if even one time for example you can Highten, Versatile Spellcaster, etc, a level 14-15 spell then Tainted Scholar would let you ignore the costs of metamagic as long as they didn't pass that point. It's less about direct mitigation and more that it can really help with resource management.

Allanimal
2011-05-06, 10:37 PM
The swiftblade PrC, available on the WotC web site, third level gets free quicken, but only on the haste spell.

Thurbane
2011-05-06, 11:12 PM
The swiftblade PrC, available on the WotC web site, third level gets free quicken, but only on the haste spell.
That reminds me...at 2nd level the Abjurant Champion effectively gets free Quicken on Abjuration spells up to his 1/2 class level (max 3rd). He also gets free Extend on all Abjuration spells.

ubergeek63
2011-05-08, 09:48 PM
A GM that is willing to let the adventure advance an academic class: Dracolexi adventure to learn the links between draconic and magic.

a whole side adventure could be based on following up on a lead to a dungeon to find his next draconic word - one for a metamagic effect. they effect people one way, and spells another with no penalty to casting time or spell level.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-05-09, 07:26 AM
If Metamagic is your game, Incantatrix is absolutely the way to go. On top of getting four metamagic feats at full progression, two free metamagic feats applied to prepared spells, and the ability to apply metamagics to spells already in effect, the capstone shaves off a spell level for each metamagic feat across the board. It's half the reason you can cast a Quickened, Maximized, Energy Substituted, Energy Admixed, Searing, Burning, Fiery, Empowered, Twinned, Split Ray Polar Ray at its original spell level. Arcane Thesis is the other half.

If you don't want to go Incantatrix, you probably won't be stacking metamagics to that extent, but you could still go with Metamagic School (school of your choosing) and Arcane Thesis (spell of your choosing).

Everything else is pretty niche. Only applies to certain schools, or certain spells, or the like.

ubergeek63
2011-05-09, 07:32 PM
If Metamagic is your game, Incantatrix is absolutely the way to go. On top of getting four metamagic feats at full progression, two free metamagic feats applied to prepared spells, and the ability to apply metamagics to spells already in effect, the capstone shaves off a spell level for each metamagic feat across the board. It's half the reason you can cast a Quickened, Maximized, Energy Substituted, Energy Admixed, Searing, Burning, Fiery, Empowered, Twinned, Split Ray Polar Ray at its original spell level. Arcane Thesis is the other half.

If you don't want to go Incantatrix, you probably won't be stacking metamagics to that extent, but you could still go with Metamagic School (school of your choosing) and Arcane Thesis (spell of your choosing).

Everything else is pretty niche. Only applies to certain schools, or certain spells, or the like.

if faerun is allowed...

Doc Roc
2011-05-09, 08:24 PM
A GM that is willing to let the adventure advance an academic class: Dracolexi adventure to learn the links between draconic and magic.

a whole side adventure could be based on following up on a lead to a dungeon to find his next draconic word - one for a metamagic effect. they effect people one way, and spells another with no penalty to casting time or spell level.

Generally, though this is reasonable, we do not discuss homebrew in these trawls.

dextercorvia
2011-05-09, 08:43 PM
Archmage and Hierophant essentially get a mitigated form of Reach Spell.

ubergeek63
2011-05-10, 08:49 PM
Generally, though this is reasonable, we do not discuss homebrew in these trawls.
It is a gray area. Per RotD the Dracolexi class adventures to learn magical draconic nuances. It is their reason for adventuring.

That is what is written and as such would be comparable to a fledgling spontaneous caster class masquerading as a prestige class and riding on the other's spell slots.

It's own spells are Draconic words that have relatively minor effects used on their own but come into their own as metamagic. That is all but explicit in the rules when you see one of the words available directly at lvl10: burn. it has the "caster's" choice 3 effects:

1: 5D6 fire damage to the target, no save, no spell resistance, once per target per day

2: empower fire spell, no increase in spell lvl or casting time, as often as you like, once per round. normally a +2 LVL metamagic

3: widen fire spell, as above. Normally a +3 LVL metamagic

And that IS RAW, and COMPLETELY on topic - Free Metamagic!