Pathfinder Paladin Help

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

So I am playing my first pathfinder game here in the next few weeks and was looking through some of the options I had for the campaign. We are allowed only core and Advanced players guides as sources. 25 point buy. Starting at level 3.

My question is this, how should i build this character? Never having played this system before and joining in a game with a lot of people who have I don't want to mess it up. I think I want to focus on being a tank/damage dealer. And right now I was thinking of doing high Cha/Str/Con and low Int/Wis/Dex. Using a Falchion, and taking the warrior of the holy light variant from APG to get extra uses of that awesome swift action lay on hands ability to keep me in the fight. Other than that I am at a lose. I have seen Cryptics guide to pathfinder Paladins but was wondering if anyone else had any second opinions. There may be some awesome ideas not covered there. Or more specific ideas tailored to my exact wishes.

I will also probably be using the already High Cha to be a party face too. And am leaning towards human for the +2 to whatever and the bonus feats/skills. Any tips or tricks are appreciated in advance ;)

[Old_Nemrod]

Str 16
Con 15
Dex 8
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 20(18 +2 from human)

I would opt for the extra lay on hands and extra channel energy feats in prep for fourth level. Power Attack is always good.

Probably best to carry shield and sword too. Stick back and guard the casters till mid-encounter, the switch to falchion and use smite evil on whichever badguy is giving the most trouble.

[Bugbeartrap]

Paladins are way awesome in Pathfinder. Well done on choosing a high-crit range weapon. Critting while smiting just ends whatever you are fighting. My paladin kept a pretty good balance between STR and CHA and did great. If you are looking for a feat chain, Power Attack is always solid, followed by the feat that lets you intimidate for free when power attacking, and then there is a feat in the APG that lets you ignore Power Attack penalties on your first attack. To get the most out of Power Attack, you might like to switch to the two handed scimitar (falchion? I think? Im away from books, or else I would give you the names to all these feats). I know that the shielded warrior is an awesome archetype, but the shield bonus quickly becomes minor, and if you want, you can always get an animated shield later.

[Sir_Wulf]

For a front-line guy, I'd recommend dropping Int to 8 instead of Dex.

While starting out, the increased damage of the greatsword probably outweighs the superior crit range of the falchion.

[Gnaeus]

If it fits with your character, you should consider Paladin 4, Sorcerer 1, Dragon Disciple +. Still a paladin, still a tank, but with a little more flexibility in your spells and magic item use, and some nice specials like flight and blindsense. IMO it is a little bit stronger, if you like the flavor.

[Akal Saris]

But then you don't advance your mount, smite evil, lay on hands, paladin spells, or favored class bonus, and you lose 4 BAB, which leaves you about on par with the +4 Str from dragon disciple. I agree that it's an option, but I think it's overall weaker than going straight paladin.

[Gnaeus]

But then you don't advance your mount, smite evil, lay on hands, paladin spells, or favored class bonus, and you lose 4 BAB, which leaves you about on par with the +4 Str from dragon disciple. I agree that it's an option, but I think it's overall weaker than going straight paladin.

4th level sorcerer spells> 4th level paladin spells. You also get more per day. And you can use spell trigger items. And at 16-20 you get to choose if you take 5 more levels of paladin (so second level paladin spells AND 4th level sorcerer spells), or 5 more levels of sorc, giving you 6th level spells.

Flight at will is at least as good as if not better than Mount.

You lose favored class +. but you get a higher HD, so +1 hp/level, AND +2 int, which is +1 skill point/level, which is retroactive in PF, and it also helps some skills. And +2 Con, which is another +1 HP per level, retroactive, and it also helps your fort save. So you lose your favored class bonus, and you get 3 favored class bonuses, 2 of which are retroactive to your original paladin levels.

4 BAB is probably about on par, as you say, with +4 str, but DD also gets a secondary natural attack (bite). And a big natural armor boost (+3 or +5, depending on how you read it). And a breath weapon for the times when a ranged AOE attack is better. And if you are ever weaponless you can claw/claw/bite.

You also get 3 bonus feats, which could be Blind-fight, Power Attack, and Improved Init (or Toughness and/or Great Fortitude if you are more worried about defense). And energy resistance 10, blindsense 60, and the ability to turn into a large dragon 2/day, with another huge set of stat bonuses.

I don't see any way that that is worse than straight paladin.

[Old_Nemrod]

I agree with going all Paladin levels. Personally don't care about spells but your lay on hands and channel energies will be very beneficial to your group. Then at fifth, I would take the Divine Bond with the weapon. Make that Falchion a keen Falchion (crit at 15-20) in leu of the +1 bonus from the bond. You can back up you buds but put the hurting on the toughest ombres with Smite Evil and Divine bond. Taking the feats to improve your saves would make sure you are almost always last one standing.

Level 3 Paladin with the scores from earlier -
Fort +10
Ref +5
Will +13
Each could be 2 higher.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

@ Gnaeus

I do agree that the sorcerer Dragon disciple route is certainly a powerful one. Which is at the very least on par if not greater than straight Paladin. However just for my own flavor sake I do desire to go straight Paladin all the way through to 20 if we get that high.

I also have not heard one way or another on the Warrior of the Holy Light Variant. Is that better than spells for a tank? I personally think extra uses of Lay on Hands is pretty dank, esp since I plan on mostly using them to heal myself and cause more pain.

Ill have to look more in depth into the feats to see which trees I will def be climbing. I still think I am leaning towards the power attack Falchion way. This is a low magic low gold world. And I don't know how picky I can be with getting different types of weapons (That is for the use the greatsword early and Falchion later idea)

I like the stat block form Old Nemrod but would change it like so just for the fact that I am human which would cancel out that -1 Int for my skills and that stat really serves no other purpose. I obviously don't wanna hurt saves so I keep my wis the same but go with dex for that extra +1 AC. Which isn't critical but I know I would really miss it if My AC is a 21 and they hit on a 21.

Any other suggestions of feats variants etc would also be appreciated if there are any. Great minds think alike which is why I joined up here to start with haha. And thanks to all who have contributed thus far.

Str 16
Con 15
Dex 10
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 20(18 +2 from human)

[Old_Nemrod]

I like these for tanking.
Power Attack
Weapon Focus(Falchion)
Cleave or Toughness

But to make things interesting consider:
Weapon Focus(Falchion)
Intimidating Prowess (adds Str to Intimidate checks)
Dazzling Display(Full-Round Intimidate to demoralize enemies)

[Gnaeus]

I do agree that the sorcerer Dragon disciple route is certainly a powerful one. Which is at the very least on par if not greater than straight Paladin. However just for my own flavor sake I do desire to go straight Paladin all the way through to 20 if we get that high.

That sounds like a good reason to me.

[Doofy87]

I might suggest if you plan on useing a 2-handed weapon, that you use a buckler. Granted you don't always get the ac bonuse but it is better than nothing. I also would prefer going straight paladin.
Just my 2 cents.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Thanks for all the tips guys. Now one more question. Equipment. We will not be having starting wealth as normal. Everyone is allowed to request one weapon, one armor, and one magical item. And to give a good case as to why your character. In my case a 3rd level Warrior of the Holy Light Paladin, should have those items. Im thinking full plate, Falchion, What would be a good 3rd level appropriate magic item that could help me be the tank of sorts. I am thinking between having heavy armor and the extra AC granted by Smite as well as the sheer number of lay on hands I will be having I will be pretty good at not getting hit SUPER often as well as being able to heal my HP when I do get hit. But also a High HP in general would be hot. Or perhaps something that boosts my offense. However I feel like Smite, Power attacking, and two handing will be pretty legit for slaying power. What would be a few suggestiosn to tip the scales more so one way or another?

[Old_Nemrod]

Whose your deity?

[Curious]

A headband of charisma +2 would be good, since it boosts your saves, you LoH, and your smites.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

Alright so a little more updating to do. We have been given one free "trait" from APG as well. SO here is my new thinking.

Half Elf Warrior of the holy Light Paladin

Take half elf variant that gives +2 to will (Not bad for a tank against those save or suck spells etc. As well as elven reflexes for my trait. +2 Initiative to help bump myself up the order a little bit. Iomedae will be my diety and i will be focusing on climbing the power attack and crit feats for Massive damage with the falchion. Any criticisms to this build? Or additional suggestions. Official first day is June the 11th, so I still have plenty of time to hammer this sucker out.

[Grommen]

Alright so a little more updating to do. We have been given one free "trait" from APG as well. SO here is my new thinking.

Half Elf Warrior of the holy Light Paladin

Take half elf variant that gives +2 to will (Not bad for a tank against those save or suck spells etc. As well as elven reflexes for my trait. +2 Initiative to help bump myself up the order a little bit. Iomedae will be my diety and i will be focusing on climbing the power attack and crit feats for Massive damage with the falchion. Any criticisms to this build? Or additional suggestions. Official first day is June the 11th, so I still have plenty of time to hammer this sucker out.

Your will is a good save, and you get to add your CHA bonus to all saves anywho, so that might end up being over kill eventually. Coarse failing a will save never ends well, so the more the better.

Friend of mine did almost the same build and the character turned out to be a hand full for me to DM for. Was doing some sick damage to demons, dragons, and undead. Managed a critical hit nearly ever freeken round. (he went with a rapier and Imp crit, and massive crit).

Now Pure neutral Plant life. Another story (promised never to talk about it) :smalleek:

Don't take the mount. Take the weapon buffs. In short you can take a normal weapon and turn in into a magical weapon and enhance it with what ever you need at the time. It's sick and wrong. At 12th level the palie added speed to her rapier, causeing the above mentioned critting.

Smite was amended, if you happen to have a first printing of the Pathfinder core. You only get double damage on your first smite. Not every single swing. This "patch" as it got called in my game, pretty much ended the campaign.

Remember people, don't tell your DM what to do. Gods don't like that very much. :smallfurious: And hay in my defense she hated Demons, so I think transporting her sorry butt to the Abyss was justified.

[G3N3R3L GHOST]

This next question comes up in terms of future planning. The Vital strike chain? Viable? Or not. It says specifically it does not multiply str, precision damage, or weapon enhancements. However what about damage from different sources (mainly in my case power attack and or smite) If so that could be an interesting way to level up slapping someone in the teeth REALLY hard one time. Instead of smacking them in the teeth pretty hard 4 times. Clarification of how this feat chain works would be hot.

[MeeposFire]

This next question comes up in terms of future planning. The Vital strike chain? Viable? Or not. It says specifically it does not multiply str, precision damage, or weapon enhancements. However what about damage from different sources (mainly in my case power attack and or smite) If so that could be an interesting way to level up slapping someone in the teeth REALLY hard one time. Instead of smacking them in the teeth pretty hard 4 times. Clarification of how this feat chain works would be hot.

Assuming that you don't double those bonuses or other bonuses no it is not worth it for you to many feats for a situational bonus that does not scale without adding more feats. Really in that case they should be free as that would help alleviate one of my pet peeves of PF which is weak standard actions.

[NamelessNPC]

The only thing Vital Strike multiplies is the weapon roll.
The falchion's 2d4 aren't much (about 5 extra dmg per hit) but it's not terribly bad either.
Cornugon Smash would be better, though, I think (free demoralize atempt when power attacking).