[DnD 3.5] Vision when stacking templates

[theonesin]

I want to make a Human character using both the Unseelie Fey(Dragon Compendium) and Magic-Blooded(Dragon #306) templates. But what I'm not sure about is what type of vision the character would end up with at the end. Unseelie Fey offers a table(for rolling) to determine vision(ranging from Normal to Blindsight). Magic-Blooded just gives low-light, but says you "lose the ancestral race's special vision capabilities".

I've not used templates very often, so I don't know much about how to figure this out.

Thanks.

[Cog]

Friends don't let friends use Unseelie Fey. :smalltongue:

Otherwise, it depends on the order. If you apply Magic-blooded last, you get low-light vision. If you apply Unseelie last, you roll.

[FMArthur]

Make sure to mention to your DM that Unseelie Fey has no listed level adjustment. DMs love hearing about why your character can't work.

(cough) Okay, okay. It's fun to make characters for the sake of it. :smallredface:
I agree that it's the last one that is applied. One might assume that they overlap and you get the greater of them, but that's just not the case in both game rules and genetics. It would be really hard to argue it.

[theonesin]

I'll check with the DM and see if he's fine with it, but thanks.

Also, my group houseruled that Unseelie Fey is +1LA instead of +0, which isn't bad.

[Curmudgeon]

Make sure to mention to your DM that Unseelie Fey has no listed level adjustment.
It actually does; it's just inserted into the sample creature on page 222 and not repeated in the "Creating an Unseelie Fey" section which follows. Unseelie Fey is CR +1, LA +0.

[FMArthur]

The template has no listed level adjustment, and the Gnome Warrior does. That's RAW. RAI, that's a copy-paste error coming from the regular Gnome statblock. So which is it?

[Jack_Simth]

I agree that it's the last one that is applied. One might assume that they overlap and you get the greater of them, but that's just not the case in both game rules and genetics. It would be really hard to argue it.It's actually explicitly in the rules as they're written that they're applied in an order (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingMoreThanOneTemplate):

In theory, there’s no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature. To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time. Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Whenever you add multiple templates, pay attention to the creature’s type—you may add a template that makes the creature ineligible for other templates you might want to add. (Emphasis added)

Do note that it's also pretty common for you to change vision modes when you change type. If you go from Humanoid to Dragon, you gain darkvision... but the darkvision is a function of the type, so if you later change to Fey, you lose the darkvision, and gain low-light vision.

[Curmudgeon]

The template has no listed level adjustment, and the Gnome Warrior does. That's RAW. RAI, that's a copy-paste error coming from the regular Gnome statblock. So which is it?
We're instructed by the Primary Sources rule at the start of those errata files that the Monster Manual is correct, and (unless told otherwise by an official errata file) those Gnome Warrior stats cannot be contested. Since Dragon Compendium also has an errata file with no changes to the Gnome Warrior stats, there are no known errors in that regard. Thus any differences between "Gnome, 1st-Level Warrior" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm) and "Summer Unseelie Fey 1st-Level Gnome Warrior" are solely due to the Unseelie Fey addition.

It's generally fruitless to assume parts of the RAW are editing goofs, because there's no way to turn that assumption into something that clarifies the rules; you just don't get anywhere. (I could just as easily assume that you regularly swap "RAW" and "RAI" as a persistent typing error. :smallwink:) I'd rather spend my time on more productive lines of reasoning.