[Pathfinder] Rage Prophet

[Kalaska'Agathas]

So, I may be playing in a "Barbarians" themed campaign, using the Pathfinder rules (I may be able to get some 3.5 material allowed, but I'm told not to count on it). The DM has yet to decide if we're using 3.5's Rages per day or Pathfinder's Rage rounds per day, but he's leaning towards using the basic Pathfinder rules for Rage (:smallconfused:). Anyways, we're limited in what classes we can choose (i.e. no Clerics, Druids, Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, etc.) - basically the DM just wants us to play Barbarians, with maybe a smattering of Rogue or Fighter or whatever to leaven the mix. I was looking at the Rage Prophet (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/rage-prophet) PrC and thinking that it would be a way to build the "Tribe Shaman" type character. But, I worry that a. I'm not going to get 9th level spells and b. that I'm going to miss out on the better aspects of the Barbarian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian) and Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle) classes by going Rage Prophet. I know the first concern is valid, but since we're supposedly playing in a low magic kind of world where humanoids (without spellcasting) will be our primary opponents, I figure it's not as major a hit as it could be. And since I'm none too familiar with the Pathfinder Barb or Oracle I don't know if I'm missing out by taking the PrC.

So, basically, I'm asking for advice on creating a "Tribal Shaman" type, and getting the most out of the Oracle and Pathfinder Barbarian (and Rage Prophet, of course).

Sources I'm allowed:
The Pathfinder SRD (d20pfsrd.com) (excepting the 3rd party content therein)
Core Rulebook
Advanced Player's Guide
and any other Paizo published Pathfinder product (yay unintentional alliteration)

Races I'm allowed:
Human
Half-Orc
Half-Elf

Classes I'm allowed:
Barbarian (my first level must be Barbarian)
Oracle
Rogue
Fighter

So, any ideas?

Edit: The build so far, with the only concerns being meeting prereqs:
Raven, Prophet of Mrifk

Barbarian 2/Oracle 4/Rage Prophet 10/Oracle 5-8

Rage Power(s): Moment of Clarity
Skills: Knowledge (Religion): 5 Ranks

We'll be starting at level 3 and progressing from there, at least to level 20 I'm told.

[Wagadodo]

I had thoughts of trying the Rage Prophet myself in a game. Going with haunted curse then while in barbarian then taking the lesser spirit totem. Taking 2 levels barbarian and 4 levels oracle be very best way to get into that way you can continue on with your caster levels.

You will want to be taking either extra rage powers or extra revelations feats. Since it sounds you like to be more of the caster than than the rager this might be your best bet. The thing about Rage Prophet is it more of cast on themselves and bash people.

I doubt if you will get to 9th level spell casting with Oracle and rage caster spell casting.

And really the number rounds per day is not very bad versus the times per day. At least so far in my limited experience in playing barbarian it is not to bad.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Is the Spirit Totem from 3.5 or is that some new Pathfinder ACF I've not seen? And why the Haunted curse, if I may ask?

I'm definitely not going to eke out 9s from this build, I think the max I can pull off is 7th level spells. But that'll be more than anyone else, so I guess that's ok.

As to what I want to do with the character, the Shaman archetype is more what I'm going for than necessarily a caster, but the casting does benefit. I see this guy as using magic to buff himself and his compatriots for battle. I see him using melee primarily, with ranged as a back up. I do know that we'll be getting equipment from 3.5, so I think I'm eventually going to have those force javelin bracers for ranged, and using a falchion for my close in work. I'll probably have Divine Power and Righteous Might being my main buffs, at least on myself.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

It's an ACF from the Advanced Player's Guide. Which happens to be the book the Rage Prophet comes from! :smallbiggrin:

[Wagadodo]

Yah what Archpaladian Said.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/barbarian.html

There is the link for the Spirit Totems. It allows them to make single slam attack at the Barb's base attack bonus plus charisma bonus and do a 1d4 damage plus charisma bonus damage. This is the Lesser, and you will qualify for the higher as you go up on up on Rage Prophet, but you will need to use feats to get get the powers.

[CTrees]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/551

Campaign idea reminded me of it, naturally (does sound like a fun campaign, btw)

[grarrrg]

Races I'm allowed:
Human
Half-Orc
Half-Elf


No one has chimed in on races yet...
All of the allowed races have +2 to any stat.
Skip Half-Elves, they are the worse choice. Humans are decent, but I believe Half-Orcs have the edge.

Half-Orc (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc)'s key bonus is Orc Ferocity which allows them to keep going for 1 round after hitting negative hp.
Ferocity can also be traded for a +1 bonus on all Saves, or a Bite attack (it can be traded for other things, but these two are the most useful). You can also trade Favored Class Barbarian in for bonus rounds of Rage (although multiclassing really limits this).

Half-Orcs also have access to some useful feats:
Ferocious Tenacity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ferocious-tenacity-combat): lets you trade rounds of Rage for reduced damage taken.
Gore Fiend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gore-fiend-combat): when you make a Critical, or get hit by a Critical you gain 1 round of Rage.

And the Icing on the Orc-Cake...
Sympathetic Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sympathetic-rage-combat): When next to a Raging ally, you get free rounds of "Minor-Rage" (only +2 Str/Con, but no duration). As your ENTIRE PARTY are Barbarians this will be very useful.

[stainboy]

Rage Prophet is pretty much a trap. Trading three caster levels for +Con to concentration checks and slightly fewer restrictions on casting in rage is a bad deal. The class makes you worse at being a cleric and not any better at being a fighter. Not even, like, a tiny bit better. They couldn't even give the thing full BAB.

The class was written by someone who doesn't really understand how a gish works. You can't normally attack or cast a spell in the same round, so if you build for attacking and spend combat actions to cast spells instead, your build isn't working. There are two ways around this:

1. Buff up before combat, hit stuff during combat. May also include dropping a single nasty field control effect on round 1 and then wading in, but once you start swinging you are done casting spells unless something goes terribly wrong. Rage Prophet is straight-up worse at this than Oracle 20 (or Oracle + Barbarian dip).

2. Hit stuff and cast spells in the same round. Sudden Quicken, Spellstrike, etc. Rage Prophet gets nothing like this.


So instead of being good at attacking (Barbarian) or being good at attacking AND casting (Oracle), the Rage Prophet gets to choose each round whether to suck at attacking or suck at casting. It's pretty much a voluntary nerf.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/551

Campaign idea reminded me of it, naturally (does sound like a fun campaign, btw)

Haha, yeah, it does seem like it's gonna be like that.


No one has chimed in on races yet...
All of the allowed races have +2 to any stat.
Skip Half-Elves, they are the worse choice. Humans are decent, but I believe Half-Orcs have the edge.

Half-Orc (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc)'s key bonus is Orc Ferocity which allows them to keep going for 1 round after hitting negative hp.
Ferocity can also be traded for a +1 bonus on all Saves, or a Bite attack (it can be traded for other things, but these two are the most useful). You can also trade Favored Class Barbarian in for bonus rounds of Rage (although multiclassing really limits this).

Half-Orcs also have access to some useful feats:
Ferocious Tenacity (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/ferocious-tenacity-combat): lets you trade rounds of Rage for reduced damage taken.
Gore Fiend (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/gore-fiend-combat): when you make a Critical, or get hit by a Critical you gain 1 round of Rage.

And the Icing on the Orc-Cake...
Sympathetic Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/sympathetic-rage-combat): When next to a Raging ally, you get free rounds of "Minor-Rage" (only +2 Str/Con, but no duration). As your ENTIRE PARTY are Barbarians this will be very useful.

I was leaning towards Half-Orc for the +1 to saves and Darkvision, but Human gives an extra spell known for your favored class bonus, which makes me think that might be the choice to make. I'm only getting 2 levels of Barbarian, mind you, while I'm getting 8 Oracle levels, so I thought that might give me more benefit than the Half-Orc.


Rage Prophet is pretty much a trap. Trading three caster levels for +Con to concentration checks and slightly fewer restrictions on casting in rage is a bad deal. The class makes you worse at being a cleric and not any better at being a fighter. Not even, like, a tiny bit better. They couldn't even give the thing full BAB.

The class was written by someone who doesn't really understand how a gish works. You can't normally attack or cast a spell in the same round, so if you build for attacking and spend combat actions to cast spells instead, your build isn't working. There are two ways around this:

1. Buff up before combat, hit stuff during combat. May also include dropping a single nasty field control effect on round 1 and then wading in, but once you start swinging you are done casting spells. Rage Prophet is straight-up worse at this than straight Oracle (or Oracle + Barbarian dip).

2. Hit stuff and cast spells in the same round. Sudden Quicken, Spellstrike, etc. Rage Prophet gets nothing like this.


So instead of being good at attacking (Barbarian) or being good at attacking AND casting (Oracle), the Rage Prophet gets to choose each round whether to suck at attacking or suck at casting. It's pretty much a voluntary nerf.

You know, having looked at it more closely, I have to agree with you. I'm not really sure how to proceed now. I'll have to think about it.

Edit: So, my DM has okay-ed a couple of things - I'm allowed the Ferocity and Streetfighter variants, and I'm allowed the Runescarred Berserker PrC. So, rather than go for a Barb 2/Oracle 18, I think I might go Barb 10/Runescarred Berserker 10. Which do you think is the better build? Remember that I'm not going to be facing many spellcasters, so the typical "AMF and Beat Down the Caster" routine of the Runescarred Berserker isn't of that great use to me.

I'm still not sure what Rage powers to take. Oh, and we'll be using the Rages per day from 3.5, not the rounds per day of Pathfinder.

Further Edit: Oh, and I'll be going Lion Totem and Trap killer, of course.

[Akal Saris]

I'm just going to leave this here... http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/551

Campaign idea reminded me of it, naturally (does sound like a fun campaign, btw)

Heh...I loved that comic!

As for runescarred berserker, it's probably a good choice. Not sure how you'll handle out of combat healing and status effects for the early levels - will somebody else cover them?

[stainboy]

What's everybody else playing? If there's only one spellcasting class and you're the only one interested, definitely do that. D&D is a lot more fun when at least someone in the party has magical resources.

[Kilbourne]

Feats are going to be your greatest mechanical building asset of this build, as I found when I made my own Rage Prophet a few months ago. Two feats in particular.

Extra Revelation: gain another Oracle revelation from your mystery, that you qualify for.

Extra Rage Power: gain another rage power of your choice, that you qualify for.

[Deity]

I would go with the "Lame" oracle curse. The downside is completely offset by the barbarians increased movement speed, and then you get the added bonus of not being slowed down by medium armor, and eventually heavy. You can get heavy armor proficiency by taking the battle oracle mystery, so you now have a heavy armor gish with 30ft movement. Seems like a good combo to me.

[CTrees]

the barbarian fast movement doesn't work w/ heavy armor. Eventually you could make it mithril and avoid that issue, but it's a little pricy for the first bunch of levels.

[Deity]

the barbarian fast movement doesn't work w/ heavy armor. Eventually you could make it mithril and avoid that issue, but it's a little pricy for the first bunch of levels.

Ahh, I missed that. Oh well, so still pretty much gotta stick with medium armor.
However, I forgot to mention the best part. The lame curse gives, at fairly low level, an immunity to fatigue. The ability to turn rage on and off with no drawback is big.