Twisted Charge

[HappyBlanket]

So, the Twisted Charge skill trick in Complete Scoundrel; a once per battle that lets a character turn during a Charge.

In the gitp forum's great and unerring wisdom, is it worth it? I mean, anything to make Charges more readily available sounds fantastic, but that once per battle is really gnawing at me.

And on a more individual note, should I spend my ability bonus at Lv4 (Lv3 right now) to get 10 INT instead of 18 STR for my Human Fighter? If I do, I'll up my 2 skill points per level to 3, which actually makes getting the skill trick feasible.

I've also considered the Fleet of Foot feat, which is basically this at-will. But really, that's two feats down the drain.



Twisted Charge (Movement)
You can charge in a crooked line.
Prerequisite: Balance 5 ranks, Tumble 5 ranks.
Benefit: When you charge, you can make one turn of
up to 90 degrees during your movement. You can’t move
more than your speed as part of this charge. All other
restrictions on charges still apply, and you must have line
of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn.


If it's relevant, the gist of my feat lay out is Leap Attack, Storm Trooper, etc. You get the idea.

[Legend]

Feats are much more valuable than skill points. Twisted Charge is decent for the cost. Better feats exist for the build you're after, which is kind of feat-intensive anyway.

[HappyBlanket]

Feats are much more valuable than skill points. Twisted Charge is decent for the cost. Better feats exist for the build you're after, which is kind of feat-intensive anyway.

Well, yeah. But it's not like Fleet of Foot was ever that viable. Still, is Twisted Charge worth the ability point at lv4? Or should I just forget turning during a charge and settle for straight lines?

[Ormur]

I once picked it for a pouncing swift hunter that had to move 10 feet to get skirmish. I wanted to make sure he could use his precision damage every turn, I figured twisted charge would help me to pounce more opponents.

[Amphetryon]

Yes, the ability is definitely worth the (negligible) skill point cost. With sufficient shenanigans, most appropriate-level battles won't take much more than 2 rounds (with an ubercharger doing the heavy lifting in melee and similarly twinked partners in crime, er, battle). Twisted Charge makes sure you get to use your shtick when the DM was trying to use the terrain as an equalizer.

[FMArthur]

Yeah, it's definitely worth it. When building a charger character, people very often forget its ridiculously finnicky spacing restrictions. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#charge)


First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

Nimble Charge and Twisted Charge are both worth the skill points, even if you get only 2 per level.

[Greenish]

It's worth noting that 5 ranks in balance and tumble you might want anyhow (and Skilled Citydweller gets you Tumble as a class skill), since with 5 points in Balance you no longer count as flat footed while balancing, and Tumble gives you a synergy bonus to Jump (and improves fighting defensively, but you're unlikely to do that).

After that, well, it's just two skillpoints, and definitely worth it.

[ffone]

Related question on Twisted Charge - charge says you must go to the closest space from which you can attack the foe - with TC, would it still be the space closest to where you started, or where you made your turn, or would it have to be the same square?

For example if the attacker is 3 squares south and 3 west of the target, could they charge 3 east and then turn to go 3 north, or would they have to go 2 east + 3 north?

[Cog]

...would it still be the space closest to where you started, or where you made your turn, or would it have to be the same square?
I think it would depend on the intervening terrain. If there's difficult terrain between your starting square and your target, the ability to hook around it would mean your closest square is the one that you can get to after rounding the terrain; likewise for an ally in the way. If you have an open path, though, I think you're stuck with the first closest square.

[Forged Fury]

I think it would depend on the intervening terrain. If there's difficult terrain between your starting square and your target, the ability to hook around it would mean your closest square is the one that you can get to after rounding the terrain; likewise for an ally in the way. If you have an open path, though, I think you're stuck with the first closest square.
That might be an interesting use of a Blockade spell. Allowing you to use the skill trick to charge around the blockade and into a square that's more advantageous, possibly due to a flanking buddy.

[Cog]

If my players were going to get that metagamey about it, I'd sooner let them just do that without the difficult terrain in the way first.

[HappyBlanket]

Cool stuff :D

But the prereqs for Twisted Charge, Tumble and Balance, are cross class. So I need an effective 10 skill points, each, to qualify for TC... Wait, what? Am I reading this correctly? 20 skill points (22 with the skill trick) can't possibly be right.

Skilled Citydweller might not be allowed. We're playing core and complete only, with exceptions by request.

[FMArthur]

I really want to slap the jackass who decided that Fighters shouldn't be good at Balance.

[MeeposFire]

Cool stuff :D

But the prereqs for Twisted Charge, Tumble and Balance, are cross class. So I need an effective 10 skill points, each, to qualify for TC... Wait, what? Am I reading this correctly? 20 skill points (22 with the skill trick) can't possibly be right.

Skilled Citydweller might not be allowed. We're playing core and complete only, with exceptions by request.

If you use the cityscape web enhancement fighters (and anybody else with the ride skill) can get tumble by trading the ride skill for tumble. Balance can be taken by taking a maneuver from the correct disciples from ToB.

[HappyBlanket]

So I take it my math was correct? Well boop. Even with retraining, I won't be able to qualify for TC until the epic levels, even if I do raise my INT. I'll need another class then.


If you use the cityscape web enhancement fighters (and anybody else with the ride skill) can get tumble by trading the ride skill for tumble. Balance can be taken by taking a maneuver from the correct disciples from ToB.

Unfortunately, we've already started playing, so picking a variant Fighter isn't possible. And I'm not familiar with ToB (this is my first campaign). But what if I took a level in the rogue variant that grants bonus feats? I can easily take that instead of, say, my 5th Fighter level (I know, I know...), and get both skills while also speeding up my feat progression.

If it matters at all; I'm taking a level in sorcerer eventually, followed by levels in Abjurant Champion. Probably a level in Lion Spirit Barbarian too (thus sealing my fate as a player who takes too many classes and transmogrifies into a dairy product).