\3.5/ Hate Me If You Will, But The PC's Will TEST THEIR MIGHT

[Deth Muncher]

So, if you haven't guessed yet - I'm making my players play Mortal Kombat - or rather, fight against some of the characters thereof. Why? Because I find it amusing to throw in references to things my players will get, and honestly, these are some very easy character concepts. As well, every party likes a good ol' knockdown dragout gladitorial match*, and instead of hordes of goblins, why not play against things that are actually interesting but not quite so overdone?

*(Don't you contradict me, boy.)

So, the main issue is that MK is a 1v1 format, and D&D is not. Now, thankfully, the characters of Mortal Kombat can be separated into several major groups - standard warriors, The Lin Kuei (and Scorpion), The Mechanized Lin Kuei, Casters and Shokan. For simplicity's sake, I pared down the list to teams of three, with increasing difficulty.

Warriors
Liu Kang, Nightwolf, Kabal

Ninjas
Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Smoke

Mecha-Ninjas
Cyrax, Sektor, Cyber Sub-Zero

Casters
Ermac, Shang Tsug, Quan Chi

Shokan
Goro, Sheeva, Kintaro

Now, here's where I need help - I need to build these not in some theoretical thought exercise of strength, not to win - but to be challenges, and to fit their base character thematically without actually being a complete rip of them. Also, certain abilities in the MK world aren't exactly duplicable in the D&D world without custom magic items - which is okay, since the characters aren't really going to be lootable all that much, so I can give them custom items - but that will factor into their overall power level, which is where I need you guys. Now, the PCs are always going to have action advantage - there are 5 or 6 in the party - so the Kombatants need to be balanced against this. I'm thinking the party is going to be roughly level 10 by the time they get to here, so the teams need to be easy, moderate, hard and tough.

These are my thoughts on what each person would need as a build - what are yours?
Liu Kang - Fighter, probably. Maybe Unarmed Swordsage to get the hadoukens.
Nightwolf - Some sort of fixed...whatever that psychic class is that manifests weapons.
Kabal - Probably a TWF fighter with either a Mask of Haste 1/day or a Mask of Expedious Retreat. Probably a Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack kind of guy.
Scorpion - Possibly a Fighter or Rogue, with an item that grants Dimension Door at Immediate Action speed, 1/round.
Sub-Zero - This one I have no idea. At all. Something to do with Hold Person though, flavored as being trapped in ice. Possibly multiclass Sorceror/Rogue.
Smoke - Probably lots of Mirror Image, Dimension Door and the like. No idea for attacks.
(Note: All of the Mecha-Lin Kwei will be Warforged - this is taking place in Eberron.)
Cyrax: More Dim.Door nonsense. Probably focusing on serrated weapons (i.e. wounding) and bombs. Also probably minor flight abilities - Poor maneuverability to be sure.
Sektor: Perhaps bracers of Cone of Flame? (Or whatever that spell is.) Same flight as above.
Cyber Sub-Zero - Whatever gets decided for Cyrax and regular Sub-Zero, gets mashed together into this.
Ermac: Probably focusing on stuff with the spell Telekineses, or be a Psi-class with telekineses.
Shang Tsung - Necromantic magic, for sure. Heavy use of Vampiric Touch and the like.
Quan Chi - Mind control!
The Shokan race is what I'm working on right now. I'm possibly thinking Psionic Half-Giant Half Dragon Monks. Why Monks? Because the Shokan have a nasty habit of grappling, as well as the fact of if they do that, they can use the Ki Energy Blast feat in PHB2 for their hadoukens. Plus, Half-Giant nets them usages of Stomp, which is thematic. Oh, possibly instead of Half-Dragon, they could use the Dragon Blooded feat, and they definitely need the Multi-Armed template, as well as Multiweapon Fighting, etc.

[Deth Muncher]

This post is reserved for actual builds.

[TroubleBrewing]

Scorpion: Spiked chain-using Horizon Tripper.

Nightwolf: Totemist. Build some kind of Natural Attack shredder.

Sub-Zero: Cryokineticist, out of Frostburn. Psionic Ice-magic user? Check and check.

That's all I've got, really.

[Deth Muncher]

Scorpion: Spiked chain-using Horizon Tripper.


Hm...Can I Horizon Tripper with a Harpoon out of Frostburn/Stormwrack so I can actually pull people in?

[TroubleBrewing]

Unlikely. I suggest a spiked chain merely because... Well... It's a chain...

The build requires a reach weapon that adds a bonus to trip attacks. I don't think a Harpoon is either of those things.

[Deth Muncher]

Unlikely. I suggest a spiked chain merely because... Well... It's a chain...

The build requires a reach weapon that adds a bonus to trip attacks. I don't think a Harpoon is either of those things.

Well yes, but people can't very well GET OVER HERE if they can't be harpooned - maybe a custom grapple-chain?

[TroubleBrewing]

Well, you did specify in the OP that you didn't want total rip-offs, just to fit them thematically. A guy who uses a spiked chain to pull people off their feet will be immediately recognized by the party.

No need to make a custom item, just settle for the best 3.5 has to offer.

[Deth Muncher]

Well, you did specify in the OP that you didn't want total rip-offs, just to fit them thematically. A guy who uses a spiked chain to pull people off their feet will be immediately recognized by the party.

No need to make a custom item, just settle for the best 3.5 has to offer.

A fair point, sir.

EDIT: Scorpion as a Horizon Tripper works well, actually, since the Shifting Planar Mastery nets usage of Dimension Door. Not offensively, though, except maybe if I took the Quicken SLA feat.

[Tvtyrant]

Smoke: Blink Dog Arcane Trickster that alter form/polymorphs into a humanoid. Uses its free action Dimension Door to tele behind people and SA them.

[Deth Muncher]

Smoke: Blink Dog Arcane Trickster that alter form/polymorphs into a humanoid. Uses its free action Dimension Door to tele behind people and SA them.

That's...interesting, actually. Though how does the Blink Dog get polymorphed in the first place? A Wizard Did It?

[TroubleBrewing]

Maybe. I'm sure there's an item in the MiC that can be used to Alter Self/Polymorph at least a few times per day.

Alternatively, I've never had a problem resorting to AWDI.

[Morph Bark]

No need to make a custom item, just settle for the best 3.5 has to offer.

Lazy DMing is lazy! (Or tedious DMing is tedious because you might have to find lots of tidbit obscure things.)

When making NPCs, one should not be afraid to customize. Go ahead and combine the harpoon and spiked chain. New exotic weapon! If you really feel the need, you can always make the feat that grants proficiency in it have EWP: Spiked Chain and EWP: Harpoon as prerequisites.

[TroubleBrewing]

... It's lazy DMing to use the existing ruleset instead of creating a potentially unbalanced/potentially useless homebrew item? :smallconfused:

[Deth Muncher]

Lazy DMing is lazy! (Or tedious DMing is tedious because you might have to find lots of tidbit obscure things.)

When making NPCs, one should not be afraid to customize. Go ahead and combine the harpoon and spiked chain. New exotic weapon! If you really feel the need, you can always make the feat that grants proficiency in it have EWP: Spiked Chain and EWP: Harpoon as prerequisites.

Alternatively, isn't there a feat somewhere that lets you grapple at range wit ha chain or whip? I remember reading and thinking "Tee hee, Indiana Jones." I wanna say CScoundrel.

[TroubleBrewing]

It's a skill trick that allows you to treat a whip as a grappling hook, IIRC. No too impressive. But you're welcome to appropriate it for whatever use you wish.

[Deth Muncher]

It's a skill trick that allows you to treat a whip as a grappling hook, IIRC. No too impressive. But you're welcome to appropriate it for whatever use you wish.

Eh, looked at it, takes too much fudging. I'd have to make it some sort of special attack, which...eh. :P I think the flavor of the Spiked Chain for tripping makes sense, but I've got to make sure he can deal with swords too. Then again, if I use the Horizon Tripper build, that works quite well.

EDIT: Also, kind of delayed, but Re: Nightwolf - yes, Totemist makes sense in a "Hur hur, Native Americans have totem poles" kind of way, and almost in a "drawing on the power of nature" kind of way - but not in a "materializes weapons a la Green Lantern" kind of way, which is why I had originally thought of whatever that class is...Soul Knife? I know there's a fix for it around these parts somewhere.

[Morph Bark]

... It's lazy DMing to use the existing ruleset instead of creating a potentially unbalanced/potentially useless homebrew item? :smallconfused:

No, it's lazy DMing to go with a lesser option because it is easier. If you make something unbalanced or useless, you can always adapt on the go, or have the NPC return later after tweaks have been made.

[T.G. Oskar]

I feel a bit wrong at saying this, but about 20% (at a bare, randomly estimated minimum) of the people are Swordsages.

Scorpion? Swordsage. Desert Wind (fire attacks), Setting Sun (trips and grabs), Shadow Hand (teleportation abilities). Then, choose the meanest undead you can figure out that still gives HD (a pumped-up skeleton would be nice; in fact, if possible, I'd go for Spellstitched Skeleton). Oh, and a Disguise check beyond possible; that way, he can pass up for human). If you can nudge at least one Ranger level and Favored Organization (Lin Kuei), that would be even more thematical.

Liu Kang? Swordsage, as mentioned. Desert Wind and...I'd say Tiger Claw, but the Flying Kick is really the charge + Flying Kick, and the Bicycle Kick is Pouncing Charge done with kicks. Maybe use DM fiat and give it the ability to turn into a green dragon...or maybe make it a green dragon? Maybe the latter; it's easier to handle, and it only works for about 1-3 rounds which fits well with the Fatalities.

Kung Lao? Maybe he can be the Warblade, but he also has a teleportation ability. So either Swordsage with Iron Heart maneuvers and then Bloodstorm Blade or Warblade with Shadow Hand maneuvers and Bloodstorm Blade. However, one thing's for sure; Bloodstorm Blade combined with a chakram (I know it's on the books somewhere...) shaped as his hat.

Sub-Zero will be harder, since no discipline has ice as its specialty. CA Ninja doesn't work for it either, and the closest thing would be Monk, but with Scorpion as a swordsage it would be quite unfair. Maybe a Monk/Sorcerer with Ascetic Monk and then go Enlightened Fist, using spells like Orb of Cold and Sleet Storm. The Ice Clone will be harder, but that can be worked out through a lesser form of Simulacrum that freezes any enemy that attacks it. Then, Flash Frost. And probably delve into Frostburn to get a heckuva lot of benefits to cold spells to show his eventual mastery over cold.

Nightwolf as a Soulknife just doesn't cut it. To do so, you'll need a fix that allows him to create mind axes, and no fix thus far has actually pulled that off. Not to mention, you'd need to enter into Soulbow just as fast, and Incarnum really seems to make it. Something like a Soulknife/Soulbow/Incarnum Blade, with the manifestation of Incarnum being the green flames. And, of course, the ability to turn into a wolf...wait a sec... Why Nightwolf can't be a Druid? Druid X/Monk 1 if it worries you so, or a class that grants the ability to turn into a wolf (preferably a dire wolf). That gives it a lot of the shaman feel.

Cyrax and Sektor are definitely Swordsages (see the trend?). Desert Wind grants them flight (Holocaust Cloak) and Shadow Hand grants them teleportation (Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Blink), plus you can use the oft-mentioned unarmed option to make them fighters. The rest is just custom components; a bladed net launcher for Cyrax, an embedded Wand of Magic Missile that can be fired as a swift action for Sektor.

Shang Tsung, of course, is a Master of Many Forms from a Necromancer with many Transmutation spells on its list. I would dare say Sorcerer (because he IS a sorcerer) with Necromancy, Evocation (or Conjuration; the flaming skulls are really Orbs of Fire with Spell Thematics) and Transmutation. MoMF allows Shang Tsung to transform into just about anybody he wants. Oh, and both Death Knell and Consumptive Field, if possible (Your soul! Is mine! *casts Death Knell*)

Ermac is a Tash-Ardent or Psionic Fist/of Zuoken with lots of telekinetic powers. Full control of all telekinesis powers, possibly done as swift action to as to allow for combos. Stuff such as Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge alongside flurry does for a nice character.

Also, why Kabal? Never thought of him as interesting; I suspect he's one of your faves, but I find Kung Lao to be much more inclined to the thematics of Mortal Kombat (being the first winner of Mortal Kombat, after all), while Kabal is really a subordinate that gained lots of power (being a subordinate of Kano whom eventually forms a rival organization). You *could*, of course, tag Kano and Kabal together with another criminal and pull off something interesting (that way, you can tag Sonya, Jax and Striker as the "law enforcement" team).

But yes, you'll have to consider a good deal of DM fiat to make their incarnations interesting. That, and the biggest DM fiat of all; if any attack causes them to reach negative hit points, they are instead unconscious but standing, wobbling, and a Magic Mouth undoubtedly speaks "FINISH HIM!!"...

[Deth Muncher]

I feel a bit wrong at saying this, but about 20% (at a bare, randomly estimated minimum) of the people are Swordsages.

Scorpion? Swordsage. Desert Wind (fire attacks), Setting Sun (trips and grabs), Shadow Hand (teleportation abilities). Then, choose the meanest undead you can figure out that still gives HD (a pumped-up skeleton would be nice; in fact, if possible, I'd go for Spellstitched Skeleton). Oh, and a Disguise check beyond possible; that way, he can pass up for human). If you can nudge at least one Ranger level and Favored Organization (Lin Kuei), that would be even more thematical.

Liu Kang? Swordsage, as mentioned. Desert Wind and...I'd say Tiger Claw, but the Flying Kick is really the charge + Flying Kick, and the Bicycle Kick is Pouncing Charge done with kicks. Maybe use DM fiat and give it the ability to turn into a green dragon...or maybe make it a green dragon? Maybe the latter; it's easier to handle, and it only works for about 1-3 rounds which fits well with the Fatalities.

Kung Lao? Maybe he can be the Warblade, but he also has a teleportation ability. So either Swordsage with Iron Heart maneuvers and then Bloodstorm Blade or Warblade with Shadow Hand maneuvers and Bloodstorm Blade. However, one thing's for sure; Bloodstorm Blade combined with a chakram (I know it's on the books somewhere...) shaped as his hat.

Sub-Zero will be harder, since no discipline has ice as its specialty. CA Ninja doesn't work for it either, and the closest thing would be Monk, but with Scorpion as a swordsage it would be quite unfair. Maybe a Monk/Sorcerer with Ascetic Monk and then go Enlightened Fist, using spells like Orb of Cold and Sleet Storm. The Ice Clone will be harder, but that can be worked out through a lesser form of Simulacrum that freezes any enemy that attacks it. Then, Flash Frost. And probably delve into Frostburn to get a heckuva lot of benefits to cold spells to show his eventual mastery over cold.

Nightwolf as a Soulknife just doesn't cut it. To do so, you'll need a fix that allows him to create mind axes, and no fix thus far has actually pulled that off. Not to mention, you'd need to enter into Soulbow just as fast, and Incarnum really seems to make it. Something like a Soulknife/Soulbow/Incarnum Blade, with the manifestation of Incarnum being the green flames. And, of course, the ability to turn into a wolf...wait a sec... Why Nightwolf can't be a Druid? Druid X/Monk 1 if it worries you so, or a class that grants the ability to turn into a wolf (preferably a dire wolf). That gives it a lot of the shaman feel.

Cyrax and Sektor are definitely Swordsages (see the trend?). Desert Wind grants them flight (Holocaust Cloak) and Shadow Hand grants them teleportation (Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Blink), plus you can use the oft-mentioned unarmed option to make them fighters. The rest is just custom components; a bladed net launcher for Cyrax, an embedded Wand of Magic Missile that can be fired as a swift action for Sektor.

Shang Tsung, of course, is a Master of Many Forms from a Necromancer with many Transmutation spells on its list. I would dare say Sorcerer (because he IS a sorcerer) with Necromancy, Evocation (or Conjuration; the flaming skulls are really Orbs of Fire with Spell Thematics) and Transmutation. MoMF allows Shang Tsung to transform into just about anybody he wants. Oh, and both Death Knell and Consumptive Field, if possible (Your soul! Is mine! *casts Death Knell*)

Ermac is a Tash-Ardent or Psionic Fist/of Zuoken with lots of telekinetic powers. Full control of all telekinesis powers, possibly done as swift action to as to allow for combos. Stuff such as Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge alongside flurry does for a nice character.

Also, why Kabal? Never thought of him as interesting; I suspect he's one of your faves, but I find Kung Lao to be much more inclined to the thematics of Mortal Kombat (being the first winner of Mortal Kombat, after all), while Kabal is really a subordinate that gained lots of power (being a subordinate of Kano whom eventually forms a rival organization). You *could*, of course, tag Kano and Kabal together with another criminal and pull off something interesting (that way, you can tag Sonya, Jax and Striker as the "law enforcement" team).

But yes, you'll have to consider a good deal of DM fiat to make their incarnations interesting. That, and the biggest DM fiat of all; if any attack causes them to reach negative hit points, they are instead unconscious but standing, wobbling, and a Magic Mouth undoubtedly speaks "FINISH HIM!!"...

Ho~oooly crap. Okay. Huzzah for complete responses!

Scorpion: Yep, that makes sense.

Liu Kang: Why Desert Wind? Hadoukens? Also, how is he turning into a dragon?

Kung Lao I had dropped only because I hadn't really figured out how to make him function properly - of course, I'd also neglected to think of the ToB. If I were a 5th Gen. Pokemon, I'd be Hurrdurr. :P

Sub-Zero: You're right. He's gonna take some work. Looking at Cryokineticist from Frostburn, seeing what I can do from there.

Nightwolf: I'm worried if I make him a Druid, it's going to be more about him fighting as a Dire Wolf than anything else. The Call Lightning and such makes sense though...hm. I'll look into it.

Cyrax/Sektor: Again, my lack of expertise with the ToB has led me astray. This all makes sense.

Shang Tsung: Yep. Where's MoMF from again?

Ermac: I've heard of the things you speak of, but know not from whence they originate nor what they do.

And why Kabal? Because he's a weird character, and not one people normally think of when they think of the MK series. If I say "there's a guy with hideous burns and a mask coming at you," the folks in my group are probably going to start thinking anime characters before they go back to Kabal. Which brings me back to Kung Lao - there's no way to do him without blatantly, blatantly ripping him off. At least the other guys ALMOST function as Expys - if I do Kung Lao, though, everyone knows I'm either doing him or Mr. Oddjobs as the base concept.

[T.G. Oskar]

Liu Kang: Why Desert Wind? Hadoukens? Also, how is he turning into a dragon?

The fireballs he does. Remember he can do one fireball alongside his flying kick and his bicycle kick (which comes from MK II). The latter two are pretty easy (Pouncing Charge and Flying Kick, then doing charges each time). However, to make him complete, you need to shoot the fireballs, and stuff like Hatchling's Flame work perfectly for the concept. That, or Monk w/Stunning Fist and Ki Blast, so that you can do similar attacks. Remember the fireballs come from the first game, so no excuses there.

As for the dragon thing...you, Mr. DM, have to work it out. Remember that they are NPCs and probably one-shots, so make it as odd as possible. DMG II has a way to make NPCs with odd traits, so you can give it an odd trait that allows the creature to transform into a single other creature for a very limited number of rounds, but you can't offer that option to PCs. So yeah, when I mention "good bit of DM fiat" I was referring to this.


Kung Lao I had dropped only because I hadn't really figured out how to make him function properly - of course, I'd also neglected to think of the ToB. If I were a 5th Gen. Pokemon, I'd be Hurrdurr. :P

[...]

Which brings me back to Kung Lao - there's no way to do him without blatantly, blatantly ripping him off. At least the other guys ALMOST function as Expys - if I do Kung Lao, though, everyone knows I'm either doing him or Mr. Oddjobs as the base concept.

I beg to differ. Aside from the bladed hat, Kung Lao is painfully generic. He does have the spinning technique and the teleportation trick, but aside from that he's quite the generic Asian character. In fact, if by any case you have to make them fight your Kung Lao expy, let him fight without the hat; make it so that his fighting style is kinda closer to Fei Long rather than Kung Lao. When a certain moment happens, and if they weren't so good at pointing him out, provide your expy with his hat and let him fight with it. By that moment, if they haven't noticed it's Kung Lao, they're busted; then again, I have a pretty close belief that Scorpion and Sub-Zero will be recognized almost at first strike.


Sub-Zero: You're right. He's gonna take some work. Looking at Cryokineticist from Frostburn, seeing what I can do from there.

...Hmm, interesting move. But Sub-Zero is more of a ninja-esque character, and IIRC Cryokineticist doesn't increase your manifester level, so you might end up with a Tash-Ardent, with a primary Elements mantle, and then specializing in cold, and THEN going Cryokineticist. But I find Monk/Sorcerer/Enlightened Fist working slightly better, since you can do a pretty decent ninja build from a core Monk, plus you get that nice fist progression. You might also want to replace the 1st level bonus feat for the Draconic Fist alternate class feature from Dragon Magic and allowing your fists to do cold damage.


Nightwolf: I'm worried if I make him a Druid, it's going to be more about him fighting as a Dire Wolf than anything else. The Call Lightning and such makes sense though...hm. I'll look into it.

Not really. The thing with Druids is that they fight much better while transformed, but you can go for Nightwolf going Monk 1/Druid 8+X and then probably Incarnum Blade Y for the blademelds. If you're gonna go for Nightwolf, you have to provide him with the wolf form (he pretty much introduced the Animalities to the game) but he'll fight in human form most of the time. You'd be basically using your Wild Shape for your Fatality, or in case it's too dangerous to go on; after all, Druids are powerful despite their Wild Shape, not necessarily because of it. The spells are more important. Going without Natural Spell ensures that you'll be fighting as a human anyways.


Shang Tsung: Yep. Where's MoMF from again?

Complete Arcane. It's a PrC that requires knowing Polymorph or higher-level spells, and what it offers is the ability to transform into just about anyone, at the expense of spellcasting ability. Since his ability to transform is superior to his spellcasting ability, Master of Many Forms is pretty much tailor-made for Shang Tsung.


Ermac: I've heard of the things you speak of, but know not from whence they originate nor what they do.

Tash-Ardent is a mixture of traits. "Tash" is a diminutive for Tashalatora, a sort-of martial style which is represented as a feat on Secrets of Sarlona. It requires Monastic Training (another Eberron general feat) with a class that provides psionic powers, and what it does is that it stacks your level in one psionic class with levels in monk to determine the AC bonus, unarmed strike damage and fast movement (not sure if something else) of the character. It's basically a feat much like Ascetic Monk from Complete Adventurer which is basically something to stack Monk and Sorcerer, but with Monk and any other class. Since what you want is to diminish MAD, you need to choose a class that has Wisdom as a main stat, so that your Wisdom bonus to AC becomes worthwhile; hence, either Psychic Warrior or Ardent (from Complete Psionic). Since Ermac is pretty powerful on his own right, it's better to go Monk 2/Ardent X with him, with your primary mantle being one that grants all three telekinetic powers and similar abilities. The rest is just choosing powers that fit the theme and abilities of Ermac.


And why Kabal? Because he's a weird character, and not one people normally think of when they think of the MK series. If I say "there's a guy with hideous burns and a mask coming at you," the folks in my group are probably going to start thinking anime characters before they go back to Kabal.

Probably going to figure at first stance that he doesn't fit with the rest of the group. That's what I was thinking. Unless Kabal IS the first character they face, by the time they face the Scorpion-expy or Sub-Zero-expy, they'll KNOW they're in Mortal Kombat. In comes Kabal, and unless they're savvy or they fondly remember MK3 (or you use his twin hook-blades, on Secrets of Sarlona as part of his fighting style), they'll think of this warrior as "not fitting". Then you'll probably reveal they're fighting a Kabal expy and they'll probably rub their heads. If they haven't played MK, even Kung Lao will seem odd to them.

The problem is that Kabal doesn't fit the "warriors" theme that much, compared to a "criminal organization" theme. In fact, Kabal would be much more at home in Eberron, running a criminal organization comprised of monastic deserters, ninja and probably some non-Emerald Claw former veterans. If it fit, I'd have provided some better clues, but it's exactly that "oddness" that makes him stand out, and not stand out in a positive light if you know what I mean. The fact that if for some reason you do some fire attack people will think of Shishio Makoto rather than Kabal shows just how odd he might be, even if Shishio isn't a dual-weapon user.

[Cog]

Dimension Door.
Keep in mind that DDoor eliminates your actions for the rest of the turn after you use it. Quickening it won't do much good unless you only do it at the end of your turn or get access to a Shadow Pounce type ability. The Blink Dog ability gets around this as well.

[Veyr]

For Scorpion, see the Grappling Vine Eldeen Plantgraft in Magic of Eberron. Just say it's not a vine for him. It's pretty awesome.

[T.G. Oskar]

Keep in mind that DDoor eliminates your actions for the rest of the turn after you use it. Quickening it won't do much good unless you only do it at the end of your turn or get access to a Shadow Pounce type ability. The Blink Dog ability gets around this as well.

While Shadow-Pouncing is powerful, Sun School is closer to what Scorpion can pull off. With the ability that allows you to make a melee attack after a DD or Abundant Step technique, you can go with Dim Door and attacking at once.

Still, the idea is that Shadow Jaunt and Shadow Blink, from Shadow Hand, work even better than that because one allows teleporting as a move action (so you can attack, because it's not DD) and the other allows teleporting as a swift action (so you can shadow-"pounce"). That's why I'm convincing Muncher to shift to swordsage, because it fits Scorpion's concept pretty much perfectly.

Also, good call on the grappling vine. Just make it deal damage as a harpoon and allow a free bull rush towards yourself (what the Spear does).

[Morph Bark]

While there are no disciplines involving ice, Shadow Hand does have some maneuvers that deal cold damage and Desert Wind can be easily changed from fire to cold damage (or electricity or acid). However, I dunno all the things Sub-Zero can do, so maybe even with those changed spellcasting covers it better.

[ffone]

Well yes, but people can't very well GET OVER HERE if they can't be harpooned - maybe a custom grapple-chain?

In the movie I think he yelled GET DOWN (T)HERE, which would work for tripping.

re: Sub-Zero, I believe Spell Compendium has artwork for some spell where a caster is encasing a foe in a block of ice...looks just like Sub Zero and for all we know the DnD guy was fanservicing it.

One way to duplicate a lot of canon characters is to find spells which mimic their abilities and just give the character custom spell-like abilities, or loot which casts the spell X times per day.

[Eldariel]

In the movie

Aaaargh! What have you done?!

[TroubleBrewing]

Yeah... :smallfrown:

[Optimator]

I ran a campaign last year where a friend of the PCs (my character) was kidnapped by a ninja clan that moved into the area recently. I didn't come out and say it but I had the gang fight Reptile, Sub Zero, Scorpion, Ermac, Noob Saibot, Jade, Mileena, Kitana, and Smoke. They figured out about half-way through the adventure. Gooood times.

[ffone]

+1 that Horizon Tripper works well for Scorpion if you pick up that feat (Setting sun school?) that lets you attack after a dimension door. IIRC it requires flurry of blows (the feat is meant for monks, and does some other stuff - but obviously the Horzion Walker with their almost-at-will DDoor gets more out of htat move than the 1/day monk) but of course the ninja guys are going to want IUS (via monk dip or unarmed swordsage or something) anyway.

IIRC the feat gives you 1 attack after a DDoor, so Snap Kick would also be nice.

Death Knight template (MMII with some 3.5 update errata) also works well for Scorpion - it's an intelligent, physically-oriented undead, and IIRC it gets Fireball 1/day, for his fatality.

The ninjas kinda have the DnD energy types going:

scorpion - fire
subzero - cold
rain - electricity
reptile - acid

[Veyr]

For Scorpion, see the Grappling Vine Eldeen Plantgraft in Magic of Eberron. Just say it's not a vine for him. It's pretty awesome.

This seems to have been missed. Seriously, the thing is exactly Scorpion's grappling hook thing.

[Otherworld Odd]

Scorpion isn't from the Lin Kuei. >_>. He's a Shirai Ryu which is the Lin Kuei's enemy. o_o;. I'd throw human Cyrax or Sektor in there and make Scorpion a boss fight. Dundundunnn... >.>. Anyways, that's all I have to say that differs from everyone else's suggestions. Sounds fun.

[Veyr]

Favored Organization is like Favored Enemy — it's bonuses against members of that organization.

[Deth Muncher]

Scorpion isn't from the Lin Kuei. >_>. He's a Shirai Ryu which is the Lin Kuei's enemy. o_o;. I'd throw human Cyrax or Sektor in there and make Scorpion a boss fight. Dundundunnn... >.>. Anyways, that's all I have to say that differs from everyone else's suggestions. Sounds fun.

You are absolutely right. (I've also been spelling Lin Kuei wrong.) I had just lumped the ninjas together, in all honesty, because I didn't want the PCs to get bored by fighting the saaaaaame things over and over.

EDIT: Also, VEYR, I'm going to go look at that plant graft.

[Veyr]

EDIT: Also, Vyer, I'm going to go look at that plant graft.
Glad to hear I could help!

That said, though...

I've also been spelling Lin Kuei wrong.I know how they feel! :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Deth Muncher]

Glad to hear I could help!

That said, though...
I know how they feel! :smalltongue::smallwink:

>_< Dyslexia Win The For!

[ffone]

Over Here Get!

[Deth Muncher]

So I looked at the plant graft. I do really like it, though honestly, if I make this guy ACTUALLY a skeleton or a Death Knight or what have you, living plant tissue like that probably wouldn't make as much sense on him. That said, I could always just adapt the rules for his spiked chain and go to town. So I appreciate the suggestion nonetheless.

To everyone else: Now I'm off to take a look at the ToB so I can familiarize myself.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think by RAW you don't need to be living to have a graft >_> <_<.

Or you could give it a Tentacle Whip symbiont from the ECS, Symbionts are similar to grafts in the sense they are added to a creature; but they are living themselves (aberrations). They don't have the free grapple; but as creatures they can start grapples themselves (and they get their own actions too)

[Frozen_Feet]

So I looked at the plant graft. I do really like it, though honestly, if I make this guy ACTUALLY a skeleton or a Death Knight or what have you, living plant tissue like that probably wouldn't make as much sense on him.

Quite on the contrary, it makes worlds of sense. He's a corpse and growing grass. It's just natural. :smallbiggrin:

[Dusk Eclipse]

Quite on the contrary, it makes worlds of sense. He's a corpse and growing grass. It's just natural. :smallbiggrin:

:smalleek: That shouldn't make so much sense...

[Deth Muncher]

Quite on the contrary, it makes worlds of sense. He's a corpse and growing grass. It's just natural. :smallbiggrin:

I hate you. Not really. :P

In other news: Something I was thinking about - I seem to recall a teleportation reserve feat that allowed casters a Immediate-speed teleport which could interrupt attacks. Is that true?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I hate you. Not really. :P

In other news: Something I was thinking about - I seem to recall a teleportation reserve feat that allowed casters a Immediate-speed teleport which could interrupt attacks. Is that true?

I know there is a reserve feat that grants teleport; but no what you are thinking is the specialist conjurer ACF Abrupt jaunt, trade your familiar to teleport 10 ft as an Immediate action 1+Int mod/day (IIRC)

There is also an item that gives you that (or concealment) 3/day in Drow of the Underdark.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I hate you. Not really. :P

In other news: Something I was thinking about - I seem to recall a teleportation reserve feat that allowed casters a Immediate-speed teleport which could interrupt attacks. Is that true?

It's a Conjuration Specialist Wizard ACF which trades in their familiar for the ability to port a short distance x times/day. Check the PhB II for more details

[Deth Muncher]

I know there is a reserve feat that grants teleport; but no what you are thinking is the specialist conjurer ACF Abrupt jaunt, trade your familiar to teleport 10 ft as an Immediate action 1+Int mod/day (IIRC)

There is also an item that gives you that (or concealment) 3/day in Drow of the Underdark.


It's a Conjuration Specialist Wizard ACF which trades in their familiar for the ability to port a short distance x times/day. Check the PhB II for more details

Oooh, see, here we go. I was thinking, maybe each of the ninja should dip to get this ability to emulate their teleports in addition to/instead of some of the ToB stuff.

Also, I've looked around for this before, but I always forget: Since some of the Ninja may need to use the Unarmed Swordsage idea...what is that? I mean, like, specifically, what is exchanged for what?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oooh, see, here we go. I was thinking, maybe each of the ninja should dip to get this ability to emulate their teleports in addition to/instead of some of the ToB stuff.

Also, I've looked around for this before, but I always forget: Since some of the Ninja may need to use the Unarmed Swordsage idea...what is that? I mean, like, specifically, what is exchanged for what?

I still advocate the Item, it is quite cheap (like 3,500 GP IIRC); but if you prefer dips that is ok.

Unarmed Swordsage, trades light armor proficiency for Monk's unarmed strike class feature (yes, the whole class feature including IUS as a bonus feat)

[Deth Muncher]

I still advocate the Item, it is quite cheap (like 3,500 GP IIRC); but if you prefer dips that is ok.

Unarmed Swordsage, trades light armor proficiency for Monk's unarmed strike class feature (yes, the whole class feature including IUS as a bonus feat)

Oh. The item's not a bad idea, actually.

And having the ninjas wearing basically no armor makes a little sense - they're never depicted as ever being very heavily armored in the first place, and even so, I could always give them a Mithril chain shirt to give them something, or a Twilight Mithril somethingorother if I felt like being silly.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You could for example Dip something (I am fond of two level dips in Ranger to keep skills and HD; but getting an increase in BAB, Fort, and getting TWF for free, while just loosing 1 IL) to get the armor proficiencies,, note that monk's unarmed strike class feature isn't lost when you wear armour.

[Deth Muncher]

You could for example Dip something (I am fond of two level dips in Ranger to keep skills and HD; but getting an increase in BAB, Fort, and getting TWF for free, while just loosing 1 IL) to get the armor proficiencies,, note that monk's unarmed strike class feature isn't lost when you wear armour.

I could, yes, but honestly, they don't really look all that armored to begin with, and they're more about getting in and out without being hit than being heavily armored in the first place.

[T.G. Oskar]

And having the ninjas wearing basically no armor makes a little sense - they're never depicted as ever being very heavily armored in the first place, and even so, I could always give them a Mithril chain shirt to give them something, or a Twilight Mithril somethingorother if I felt like being silly.

It doesn't has to be Unarmed Swordsage, actually. Imp. Unarmed Strike + Superior Unarmed Strike, while consuming two of your feats, gives you a reasonable amount of "punch" in your melee attacks, but you can fight with weapons without the need to sacrifice light armor.

For example: Scorpion does hand-to-hand combat pretty well, but he combines his Spear and his twin blades for combat. Thus, you can do well with vanilla Swordsage instead of forcing the increase. If necessary, you could provide some levels in Shadow Sun Ninja for increased unarmed proficiency, with a small dip in Monk if needed. You can get IUS for free, keep your Wis to AC even with light armor, two bonus feats and a lesser loss of AC if somewhat unarmored, plus you get to keep advancing Shadow Hand, advance Setting Sun as well (in case you need to go for an Air Throw technique) and such. TWF, on the other hand, might be necessary for the two-sword combat style.

Liu Kang, on the other hand...unarmed Swordsage. No less, no more. He's a fist fighter first and foremost, with probably a bit of nunchaku around.

[Deth Muncher]

Also, by the way, I'm assuming that the party is going to be level 10 at the time they get thrown into the arena - what level should all of these characters be? Specifically, I want the Warriors round to be moderately difficult, the ninja and Warforged-ninja fights to be tough, and the Shokan fight to be brutal but winnable. I'm thinking each of these fights will be taking place within three rounds of each other, unless it's going to totally wreck the party due to lack of resources

Also, for the Shokan. Does anyone know where the Multi-Armed template is? I thought it was Savage Species, but I'm not sure anymore. As soon as I know that, I'll be able to get this going.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Umm I think there is a pseudo template in DMGII to give more arms and IIRC there is a template called Obad-Blessed (re-fluff to taste) in Dragon magazine, can grant up to 4 extra arms IIRC.

I say let the ninjas be level 12 to be tough but winnable; and the Shokan perhaps level 14-15? that would be an overpowering encounter going by DMG standards.

[Rei_Jin]

To make things easier on you as a DM, and because the PCs will outnumber the badguys 2 to 1, I'd make all your MK characters Gestalt. It'll do wonders for you with building them to match an ideal, and will bring their power more in line with the PCs who have more rounds of actions per round, but less actual power.

It would also allow you to consider using Templates, higher LA races, etc, on one side of the Gestalt, and a full class build on the other.

[Deth Muncher]

To make things easier on you as a DM, and because the PCs will outnumber the badguys 2 to 1, I'd make all your MK characters Gestalt. It'll do wonders for you with building them to match an ideal, and will bring their power more in line with the PCs who have more rounds of actions per round, but less actual power.

It would also allow you to consider using Templates, higher LA races, etc, on one side of the Gestalt, and a full class build on the other.

I'm honestly worried about just how templated I want them to be - the CR calculator seems to think that if they bad guys are level 9 or higher, it's an overpowering fight. Or something.

[Rei_Jin]

That's understandable, but remember that NPCs aren't supposed to have anywhere near the same level of gear as a PC has. Also, doing it with Gestalt would allow you to do more flavour things that aren't necessarily as powerful, and they would still have staying power.

Also, most templates and LA races aren't worth what they're listed as, for a one shot badguy. It's why LA is more than CR normally, having Teleport at will is very powerful on a PC, on an NPC who will survive one combat, it's a nothing ability.

As an example of what I'm talking about... with SubZero, you could make one side of his build a Sorceror/Elemental Adept, and the other side could be Monk or Swordsage. You'd be picking fllavour concepts to fit in with the idea, not going for overpowering combos.

Oh, and don't use Factotum, or Warblade//Wizard, or other really synergistic combos for it... you should be fine.

[Deth Muncher]

Before I properly respond to the above: Where can I find the Obad-Blessed template? This factors into the gestalt musings.

[Rei_Jin]

Honestly? I've never heard of the template before this thread. I tend to only used published material and I stay away from electronic supplements and dragon/dungeon magazine material, as it's not as "balanced" as normal WotC stuff is... not that even that is super balanced.

[Deth Muncher]

Honestly? I've never heard of the template before this thread. I tend to only used published material and I stay away from electronic supplements and dragon/dungeon magazine material, as it's not as "balanced" as normal WotC stuff is... not that even that is super balanced.

Well, I mean, I need to give them two more usable arms, and I'd like to have some sort of idea on how that balances on other kinds of things. I plan on probably using a half-giant as a base, since it gets the 1/day Stomp, etc. A half-giant somethingseomthing Monk with Improved Grapple, Ki Blast, etc. is what I'm looking at at the moment, but until I can find something that properly talks about multiple usable arms, then I've got nothing.


EDIT: Welp, doesn't matter. I'm just gonna use Lyndwyrm's stat-up of the race itself and go from there.


Shokan:
+4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis
Outsider (Native, Dragonblod, Fire)
Large: –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
Face/Reach: 10ft/10ft
A Shokan's base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Shokan can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Racial Hit Dice: A Shokan begins with two levels of Outsider, which provide 2d8 hit dice, a Base Attack Bonus of +2, and base saving throws bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +3, and Will +3.
Racial Skills: A Shokan's Outsider levels give it Skill Points equal to 5 x (8 + Int modifier). It's class skills are Climb, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot.
Racial Feats: A Shokan's Outsider levels give it one feat.
Multiple Limbs: Shokan have four arms, and thus can take the Multiweapon Fighting feat (page 304 of the Monster Manual) instead of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
+4 Natural Armor Bonus
Natural Weapons: 4 Slams (1d6)
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shokan is automatically proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.
Fire Shot (Su): Shokan are magically in tune with the element of Fire due to their draconic heritage. They have the ability to form a small fireball in any of their four hands and launch it towards enemies at great speeds. This is treated as a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6+Cha Fire damage. One ball of flame may be hurled as a Standard action, while up to four may be hurled as a Full-Round action. This ability requires as many free hands as fireballs and has a range of 30ft.
Fire resistance equal to twice the Shokan's Hit Dice.
Resistance to Acid 5 and Electricity 5.
+4 racial bonus to Jump checks.
Automatic Languages: Common and Draconic. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Fighter.
LA+3

That means it starts as a level 5 character. I can go from there. Since I actually do need to study for finals this week, I don't know if I'll get anything up on my own, but feel free if you want to take a whack at the Shokan warriors. They should:
-Focus on grappling
-Focus on stunning things, like the psychic ability Stomp (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/stomp.htm)
-Should have some way to jump into the air and come down with considerable force - a Pounce attack, perhaps?

[Etrivar]

re: Sub-Zero, I believe Spell Compendium has artwork for some spell where a caster is encasing a foe in a block of ice...looks just like Sub Zero and for all we know the DnD guy was fanservicing it.

The spell in question is a druid spell called Freeze Ray. I believe it's third or fourth level.

[Veyr]

It's actually called just Freeze, and it's 6th level.

[Morph Bark]

So I looked at the plant graft. I do really like it, though honestly, if I make this guy ACTUALLY a skeleton or a Death Knight or what have you, living plant tissue like that probably wouldn't make as much sense on him. That said, I could always just adapt the rules for his spiked chain and go to town. So I appreciate the suggestion nonetheless.

To everyone else: Now I'm off to take a look at the ToB so I can familiarize myself.

You could always fluff it as a construct graft instead. Mechanically it would make no difference, aside from Sunder rules perhaps.

[Etrivar]

It's actually called just Freeze, and it's 6th level.

Ok, wow, I was way off. It's times like these I wish my office would let me have my books at my desk.

[Deth Muncher]

You could always fluff it as a construct graft instead. Mechanically it would make no difference, aside from Sunder rules perhaps.

This is also true, and this is what will likely happen.

[Deth Muncher]

To reiterate something earlier in the thread - an inordinate number of these characters should be swordsages, unarmed or not. After looking through the Tiger Claw discipline, that sounds right up the Shokan's alley, what with the jumping and the destroying, and Setting Sun for throwing people. With the monster feat Awesome Blow, you can have fun setups like having one knock a PC flying, then another one jumping on the prone PC for ultradamage. In fact, it looks like the only people who wouldn't really be suitable as Martial Adepts are Kabal (if I keep him, because he just seems like a mobility-based fighter, not doing fancy flashy moves), Ermac (because he focuses too heavily on TK powers), Shang Tsung (because, well, he's a Necromancer/Shapeshifter), and Quan Chi (because he's too focused on MINDTAKING).