Warhammer 40K on virtual tabletop (maptool)

[DrakDarkstar]

Since theres no virtual tabletop forum, i posted here instead.

Well, my online friends lured me into wh40k, so we decided to make a maptool server for it so we could play via internet.

So far we have made all normal units from:
Space marines, orks, tau, eldar, dark eldar, necrons, tyranids, imperial guard, chaos space marines, chaos daemons.
Well basically the base races (no SM chapter specific).
And a few apocalypse units, we will be adding more as needed, and as soon as we figure out their size.
We have been playing for a while now inviting people we know, and we finally decided to make a post.

Rules are these:
You start your army with 500 points of "exp", this is to replace the cash system of actually buying the models.
When deciding what models to buy, only take into account the base model price, and the character upgrade in the codex.

When deciding the point size of the battle, thats when you add the cost of any options and upgrades.

After the end of the battle, the winner gets an ammount of exp equal to half the battle size per side, so a lets say 500 point battle, will award the winner 250 exp, then the loser gets half of that, 125.

Apocalypse games do not award exp points, the ammounts would just be too large.

Theres also a war campaign being made for players with high ammount of points, requirements to enter this are 20k of exp points and having played 10 apocalypse games, you are then awarded 4 planets to defend, and to capture more planets from.

We use maptool (http://rptools.net/) 1.3.b86 , ill pm the server name and password to people who want to play.
download (http://www.rptools.net/download/zip/maptool-1.3.b86.zip)

Happy Wargaming!

updated with images:
my chaos owned models:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k1.jpg

fight in progress (mine are dark eldar, chaos are from loafer):
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k2.jpg

several automated rolls:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k3.jpg

macros (scripted buttons):
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k4.jpg

if i dont answer in the server, its because im either sleeping or in the university.

Announcement:
mapmaking contest:
during this week, we are having a contest of map making, wich ill be judging this sunday.
each player can submit up to 2 maps, the winner will get 1000 exp points for his army, and the rest of acepted maps will earn you 250 exp points.

[Penguinizer]

At 500 points, I'm thinking that Space wolves have a massive advantage. Krak spam is incredibly annoying. Either way, I could be really interested.

[Incomp]

Hmmm. I may well be interested in this, if it's organized.

[Forum Explorer]

Intresting. Seems like fun and a good place to test out some lists.

[DrakDarkstar]

At 500 points, I'm thinking that Space wolves have a massive advantage. Krak spam is incredibly annoying. Either way, I could be really interested.

space wolves, as well as other chapters and specific books arent allowed for that exact reason.
Also, as said, you only start with 500, and go gaining more "exp" with the fights.

Anyway ill send you the pms to you 3 so you can at least check it out.

EDIT: sent.

EDIT: i apologize if our head admins behaviour is a bit harsh, he takes the rules seriously.
anyway, im the host so ill be the one online most of the time.

[pheonix1405]

i am the actual head admin of this group, so HI!

as drak already stated, we don't allow anything but the base codexs, so no space wolves, blood angles, etc.

and to be honest, your not the first person that i have said this to:
don't like it? theres the door

and as an edit:
i'm not trying to be mean, i'm really not, but i am being blunt about this.
lets be honest, if i'm not, then someone will try to find a loophole that will just give me and anyone with sense a big headache.
so please, pick another race, have fun, get excited to learn a new race, but please, don't try to use anything else besides the basic codex for marines

[DrakDarkstar]

did you all get your pms?
btw, server is open almost 24/7, so you can come anytime and wage war :P
there should be a dm at least so we know whats going on, but theres one almost all the time.

[Incomp]

and to be honest, your not the first person that i have said this to:
don't like it? theres the door

I approve. No, seriously. You're a man after my own heart.

Aaaaand, soooo, do Grey Knights count as chapter-specific marines? (That's a serious question.) I expect they are, but I'm just picking them up and this seemed like a nice way to learn the ropes.


did you all get your pms?


Yeah, yeah, mom.

[DrakDarkstar]

I approve. No, seriously. You're a man after my own heart.

Aaaaand, soooo, do Grey Knights count as chapter-specific marines? (That's a serious question.) I expect they are, but I'm just picking them up and this seemed like a nice way to learn the ropes.

Yeah, yeah, mom.

yes they do count as chapter specific, and plz dont call me that...
just asked cuz i didnt know well about multiple recipients on pms thats it...

[Forum Explorer]

I got mine as well. Unfortantly my codexes are at my bro's house so I'll have to start this tommorow.

[The_Admiral]

I want to play but will it still be running on november?

[Tome]

Huh, seems interesting.

Pity I can't try out some GK lists. Guess I'll have to stick with my Tau. :smallbiggrin:

[DrakDarkstar]

So far i got no doubt it will be runing on november, one way or another.

PMs sent.

[Ninjaman]

Creating this with space hulk could be cool. Also could you link some pictures of what it lookes like?

*Facepalm*
I meant kill team.

[DrakDarkstar]

updated first post and pm sent

[pheonix1405]

thank you all for the continued interest!
we litterally are on almost 24/7 except maybe a few hours in what would be considered 'way early' in the west coast of the USA area

[Ninjaman]

Um... how do i log in :smallbiggrin:

[DrakDarkstar]

open maptool (link at first post)
go to file->connect to server
fill with the info given in pm
choose any username
and click ok

[DrakDarkstar]

Right i felt like explaining a bit more about this so heres a battle going on now, that was just paused.
This game is on 2900 points.

Also added a bit of text for better understanding, hope its readable here.
Battlefield:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k5-0.jpg

Sandman's Casualties:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k5-1-1.jpg

My Casualties:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k5-2.jpg

Turn 4:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k5-3.jpg
well, during his turn 3, sandman moved a lot, killed more boys.
in my turn, my battlewagon killed another honor guard, my meganobz and thraka moved, assaulted and wiped out his terminator squad, the deff dread finished off the last tactical marines in the fight, and the last killa kan took the weapon off a drop pod.

[Ninjaman]

I can´t log in. It says that Client: (numbers) 86 Server: (same numbers) 81, but i can only find 84 and 86.

[The_Admiral]

So far i got no doubt it will be runing on november, one way or another.

PMs sent.

Thanks I will be there after the exam of doom

[Eldan]

Question: have you looked at Vassal 40k? It's a program that has been running for a few years now, and also provides a virtual tabletop, but this one more specialized for 40k gaming. You might also, perhaps, want to steal a few counters for them, they already have all the tanks done for you. :smallwink:

[DrakDarkstar]

@ninjaman:
direct download link, youre using wrong version.
http://www.rptools.net/download/zip/maptool-1.3.b81.zip

@eldan:
if they have apocalypse units ill check it out, because the rest is done.

side note, im making a macro to roll for special missions from the battle missions book.

[DrakDarkstar]

server will be off for like 2 hours, sorry.

Edit: server is back online.

Edit2: if anyone can tell me by what times can you show up, that would be good, i have to make myself a schedule and for that i need to know the best times for studying/playing :P.

[DrakDarkstar]

Allrighty, time for another battle report :P
this time 3500 points, and from the begining!
(3500 points has been decided as the maximum of points you can bring to a battle without making it apocalypse btw).

EDIT: if you want to see for yourself, we are playing it right now!

so sandman is helping me in this again, and is trying to improve with his space marines, ill be using chaos this time.

i was told, but not sure, that you can bring land raiders as dedicated transport for termis, and hence bring up to 6, correct me if its a mistake plz.

allright, my army composition:
1 squad of terminator champions equiped with powerfist each, and an icon of khorne.
2 squads of terminator champions equiped with chainfist each, and an icon of khorne.
3 dedicated transport land raiders with chaos havoc launchers.
2 defilers with lascannons.
1 squad of obliterators.
1 full and another of 15 models big squads of noise marines, fully equiped with sonic blasters and personal icon.
and of course, abaddon.

picture of it waiting to be deployed:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k6-1-1.jpg

Sandmans Army:
2 assault marine squads, 2 lascannons each, sargeants with plasma pistol and power weapon.
1 terminator assault squad
1 terminator squad with 2 cyclone missile launchers.
master of the forge with conversion beam.
3 venerable dreadnoughts, with twinlinked lascannon and extra armor each.
honor guard squad, captain has thunder hammer and digital lassers.
marneus calgar lord macragge
4 drop pods, 3 for the dreadnoughts and 1 for lord macragge and honor guard, each with deathwind missile launchers and homing beacons.
captain darnath lysander
land raider with storm bolter, hunter killer missle, multimelta, extra armor
thunderfire cannon with techmarine
whirlwind tank.

image:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k6-1-2.jpg

we rolled anihilation and dawn of war, so the main power of the army was left behind...

this is deployment:
http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k6-1-3.jpg

turn 1 end:
on my turn i killed 2 marines with my sonic blasters, then he made a nice drop pod strike and shot 2 wounds off abaddon.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k6-2.jpg

allright, in turn 2 most of my units came in, so i shot a weapon down a pod, stunned the other, killed all the honor guards and did a wound on lord macragge, then he brought another pod, along with his 2 termi squads, shot down several noise marines and 1 termi, then he assaulted with lord macragge who died fairly fast and doing no damage.
(this is just my power fist squad btw)

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww95/DrakDarkstar/wh40k6-3.jpg

game paused for now

[iyaerP]

when you say lord macragge, do you mean Marneus Calgar?

I am unfamilier with Lord Macragge

[DrakDarkstar]

yes exactly that one :P

[pheonix1405]

that match is happening in the instant that i have posted this....

[DrakDarkstar]

ill be off mostly until sunday, but ill leave the server open.
anyway, ill be able to login every so often too, and theres a lot of more players there, so you can just show up.

[The_Admiral]

I tried doing a test login but the server diconnected

[DrakDarkstar]

thanks for letting me know, that normally means i gotta restart it.

edit: done

PD: if it still doesnt load, its probably something on yourside, because people connect everyday

[Renegade Paladin]

i am the actual head admin of this group, so HI!

as drak already stated, we don't allow anything but the base codexs, so no space wolves, blood angles, etc.

and to be honest, your not the first person that i have said this to:
don't like it? theres the door

and as an edit:
i'm not trying to be mean, i'm really not, but i am being blunt about this.
lets be honest, if i'm not, then someone will try to find a loophole that will just give me and anyone with sense a big headache.
so please, pick another race, have fun, get excited to learn a new race, but please, don't try to use anything else besides the basic codex for marines
Why do you care who plays what codex as long as the players agree? If your objective is to stop "broken" combos, you need to ban a lot more than just non-Codex Marines; that's a really arbitrary marker to set for no real advantage. I mean, nobody at 500 points fields Terminators, so I, as a Guard player, would put in two veteran squads, a command squad, and fill out the rest with a pair of Russes and stomp all over everything in sight with table-ranged AP3 ID pie plates in bubble wrap; Space Wolf krak spam can still only glance AV14. Alternatively, somebody might want to play Herohammer, so as many bodies with lasguns as possible and eventually saves will be failed. :smalltongue: Whichever. I'm sure it's possible to come up with better than that using other codices that aren't DA/BA/BT/SW/GK/AM (:smallwink:); it's simply an arbitrary distinction without a difference, with the only discernible reason being that they're Marines who aren't Ultramarines (or traitors).

[DrakDarkstar]

1) its not JUST 500 point battles.
2) for what ive read, those chapter specifics are actually more powerful than the rest, 1 way or another, and normal space marines are enough anyway.
3) arent ultramarines chapter specific too (not sure)?

anyway ill leave the rest to phoenix for now, leaving town for a few days and will take me a while to get where im going.

[Cogidubnus]

1) its not JUST 500 point battles.
2) for what ive read, those chapter specifics are actually more powerful than the rest, 1 way or another, and normal space marines are enough anyway.
3) arent ultramarines chapter specific too (not sure)?

anyway ill leave the rest to phoenix for now, leaving town for a few days and will take me a while to get where im going.

I've been quietly lurking reading this thread for a few days, and thought I'd throw my hat in. Space Wolves are generally considered balanced, Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Black Templar are considered only a little different in terms of power. There is a thread on picking a 40k army that covers them under its Space Marine section.

Oh, and Ultramarines are generally considered as vanilla as Space Marines get, although most chapters are vanilla by their very nature - no need to improve upon a perfect system, after all.

[Renegade Paladin]

1) its not JUST 500 point battles.
That's fine; there are ways to break Guard (and other non-chapter codices) in battles larger than 500 points as well. It just requires more thought than "Nobody expects the Tank Inquisition (in 500 points)!" (And consequently nobody brings melta.)

2) for what ive read, those chapter specifics are actually more powerful than the rest, 1 way or another, and normal space marines are enough anyway.
Are they? They all go down like punks to low-AP ordnance, so I hadn't really noticed. :smalltongue: More seriously, in most cases they're not more powerful (with the Dark Angels they're actually less except with very specific builds), but rather are powerful in different areas. Codex Marines get cheap Hammernators, free sniper rifles for their scouts (I don't know about everybody else, but Space Wolves, at least, have to pay), free twin-linking for flamers and meltas with the right captain, capacity 12 drop pods, and Sternguard; you can't say they get nothing special. The other codexes either don't have these things or have to pay out the nose for them, but their advantages lie elsewhere.

3) arent ultramarines chapter specific too?
Codex: Space Marines might as well be called Codex: Ultramarines. The Ultramarines are the definition of Codex Marine. So no, not by your definition.

anyway ill leave the rest to phoenix for now, leaving town for a few days and will take me a while to get where im going.
Same, oddly enough, so I won't be around for a couple of days. Not that I was planning on using your server; I just happened to notice the hilarious inconsistency. I maintain that all you're doing is broadly limiting player choice for no discernible game advantage.

[The_Admiral]

Just tried again must be on my side well my internet connection is barely considered broadband and I am using it on WIFI

[pheonix1405]

well, captain obvious, i just tried to login, and it's still good:smallwink:
i'll try to be on the server as much as i can, but i can't make any promises due to other things going on:smallsigh:

i'm going to give all of you first time loaders a warning:
we have a LOT of things for you to load up, namely the whole campaign, so first time logging may be slow, atleast 3 of the maps will probably require to re start maptools at some point due to how many things their are, and if you don't see an admin on, or drak doesn't respond, it's most likely because he's afk and i'm not there, so be patient and wait it out, we'll get there.

going back to the slow load times; it's gunna take some time, because maptools make temp folders that allows you to slowly load in faster and faster each time, eventually, it'll be lightning quick, i can promise you that:smallbiggrin:

note: i did not see the second page yet....time for reading....

[pheonix1405]

1. thats been covered

2. it's not that were trying to stop the cheapness. believe me, when i say, that 500 points in an ork player who knows the codex will throw up a steel WALL that is unstoppable for atleast long enouph for me to get 2 tanks (i started playing as guard, btw). it's that we don't want people who come in and use their super over powered abilities that has been petted and made powerful by GW (:smallfurious:). why is it so hard to accept the basic vanilla marines? if you really want a full rant of me doing this, heres the sum of it:
space marines are op and are the first to get updated in every new edition
necrons are stuck in 3rd edition

3. i don't care about

final notes:
were really not trying to do that :smallsmile: but we are bringing 40k to it's basics. basic codexs, basic rule books, not so basic apocalypse because there is no such thing XD. were not trying to get the upper hand on anyone, we just don't want to A. do all the work making those tokens and B. have people b**** about johnny-try-hard with his space wolves or johnny-try-hard b**** because his space wolves got smashed and there is no physical way of doing that :smallcool:

[Shovah]

But.. Imperial Guard are probably stronger, whatever the points level, than just about anything else, including chapter specific marines (Space Wolves, Black Templar, whatever)


What makes the armies your arbitrarily banning better or worse than any other army?
Sure a lot of them will have a good chance against something like Necrons.
So will most other armies - necrons are old, fairly predictable, and need a new codex.

What particular abilities do the various marine chapters have that make them "super over-powerful" and ban-worthy, when nothing else is banned?


heres the sum of it:
space marines are op and are the first to get updated in every new edition
necrons are stuck in 3rd edition

..what?
Okay.. a few points:
What makes Space Marines OP?

Assuming they somehow are, why allow their most commonly updated Codex but none of the others?

What the heck do Necrons have to do with any of that?




Just.. really having trouble seeing the point in it all.

[Winterwind]

The question being - and, by my understanding, also the question brought up by Renegade Paladin - why you would think that any Blood Angels/Space Wolves/Black Templar/Dark Angels/Grey Knights player would be any more likely to stir up any trouble than the player of any other codex? Those codizes aren't any more likely to be broken than any other codex, nor are they any more likely to attract more whiny players than the others. You might as well go ahead and say "We're allowing all codizes. Oh, except Orks. Because we don't want people to come in and stir trouble with their huge green mass of models.". You could pick literally any codex there is, and the justification not to allow that codex would make just as much sense. Or, more accurately, as little.

And as for "going back to the basics", those codizes have been around for just as long as all of the other codizes. Some of them for longer than actual non-Imperial armies, like the Necrons or the Tau. Some of them haven't been updated for just as long, too.

I don't even play any of these (at least, yet), nor am I too likely to play virtual tabletops any time soon (after all, I can play real ones), but this strikes me just as some utterly random and unjustified exclusion of codizes of equal standing as all of the codizes.

[pheonix1405]

if yall are looking for a simple answer, there isn't one

it's not like i hate all the space marines....well, i do...but thats not the reason why

more than anything else, i just don't want to have to do the work of looking up all the rules and such and integrating them in a system that doesn't exacly work to well with those rules.:smallsmile:

but another reason is that why the hell does games workshop have about 20 space marine codexs in the first place? just use the basic ones and get your buts working on the other races

finally, if your really not interested in playing, why are you asking?:smallcool:

like i said in a previous post:
if you don't like it, theres the door, don't let it hit you on the way out

[Shovah]

But.. adding space marine variants would probably be far easier than adding other races because, funnily enough, they're similar to regular marines in a lot of ways.

Why release other marines?
Because they sell.
If you had a business that sold say, 3 types of product, and you found that people bought twice as much product A as B and C put together, wouldn't you get more of A to make some more money?
They do what works.

[Cogidubnus]

I will agree to your right not to put the tokens on the server, doubly so because you wouldn't want to learn the rules.

Does make me miss my Iron Hands though. Tactical Sergeants in Terminator Armour were scrummy.

[Nameless Ghost]

The exclusion of non-vanilla Marines comes across as an attempt to exclude something considered 'overpowered' because of a lack of knowledge or understanding. If you don't know what the rules are and would have to look them up, how can you know if they'd be overpowered or not? That argument could be used for anything.

I get that you may not like Space Marines and because you're running this you get to make those decisions. If I was to set up a similar server, I would be perfectly allowed to exclude Necrons or any other army with whatever justifications I liked.

I would just like to point out that I think you're going to be unnecessarily excluding people who may want to take part because of this kind of attitude, and it may be worthwhile trying to see the other side and re-evaluating your decisions.

For the record, I play Tau as my primary army, and also have Daemons, Orks and vanilla Marines.

[DrakDarkstar]

i managed to show up a bit heh.
anyway, i couldnt discern who wants to play and who came here just to argue, so whoever is interested, plz tell me directly or pm me.

[pheonix1405]

i managed to show up a bit heh.
anyway, i couldnt discern who wants to play and who came here just to argue, so whoever is interested, plz tell me directly or pm me.

what he said, evidentilly, people haven't got the message, so let me spell it out for you:
if you don't like the rules we've set in place, GO ARGUE ABOUT IT ELSEWHERE

[Winterwind]

Which would be the point where I definitely know I don't want to have anything to do with that project, because while you are of course entitled to set up whatever rules you want, nothing worthwhile has ever been created by a person unwilling to at least consider constructive criticism.

Mind, "We don't have the time/money/motivation to insert further armies" would be a perfectly good justification. "We won't take any criticism and won't debate any of our decisions", however, is the worst sort of attitude any person engaged in any sort of creative activity could ever possibly take.

[iyaerP]

i managed to show up a bit heh.
anyway, i couldnt discern who wants to play and who came here just to argue, so whoever is interested, plz tell me directly or pm me.


Some of us would be playing but aren't due to our armies of choice being arbitrarily restricted for no other reason than "We don't like that Games Workshop primarily makes marine codexes because those are the most popular."

I could accept it if the arguement was based on the fact that some of the independant characters do wierd and unholy things to the rules and would make the programming for them a mind-rending horror. I do programming myself and can understand that.

But the underlying attitude seems to be that pheonix doesn't like space marine varients and because he doesn't want to play against them, nobody is allowed to have them at all. And so because of that, no, we won't be coming to your server to play.

[pheonix1405]

ya, i don't like space marines, but has this issue already been talked about, considered, and then shelved? yes. if you guys really play more armies, like you post, and since i read full posts, i can draw from that, then why is there even an issue? i'm not gunna repeat what i already said, so read my posts again before you decide to post next time

[Shovah]

Which part of your posts are you talking about him reading?

The "if you don't like it, theres the door, don't let it hit you on the way out" part?
Because none of the rest made much of a point.


I guess it's an issue because people would still like to play the armies you're banning for what seems like no reason beyond personally disliking them?


But eh, you're in charge of the whole operation, so you can do what you like with it.

[pheonix1405]

matter of fact, i mostly inherited these rules from a friend. only real things that i've changed was apocalypse and the campaign that no one is close to entereing:smallcool:

why he banned them? best i got out of him was that it would take to much time to make and/or their op. it is 100% true that it would be super hard for us to integrate the rules for some of them anyway (which i have seen one rule, something about extending a ruler some distance, and i was like 'damn, that would be a banned rule because we CAN'T do it, not because we don't want it)

"more than anything else, i just don't want to have to do the work of looking up all the rules and such and integrating them in a system that doesn't exacly work to well with those rules."
that is from one of my earlier posts before someone said that there can be better reasons:
"I could accept it if the arguement was based on the fact that some of the independant characters do wierd and unholy things to the rules and would make the programming for them a mind-rending horror. I do programming myself and can understand that."

please make sure you review all of my posts before you post again nameless. my words may not make sense at first, but if you need clarification, then i'd be happy to clarify, just don't say i didn't give reasons i already have.

and per the restricting armies, all i'm resticting is everything except the 'vanilla' of every race, we still have epic matches and epic points of units, believe me on that one. i personally run IG, Nidds, Necrons, and Tau.

i'm not sure if i mentioned this before, but this is actually a very wonderful way to try out armies you haven't tried out before. i only personally own units for guard/nidds, but i've got combat experience under my belt for all the races i have in maptools, so feel free to pop on for no other reason than trying a new army.

and honestly, i just might give in some day, and have to look up non-vanilla marines rules, but arguing your way in will not be very convincing of a way. for now though, it is practically a steel wall, since i don't mind restricting those armies, and if you think it's for a personal reason, no sweet off of my back, go bitch about it on some other board

[pheonix1405]

ok people, i'm not blind, i've just been busy. if you see me (pheonix1405) with a connected thing next to it, make sure you say something and stick around a bit. i've been busy tonight and i have decided sleep will be best, but i'm telling you, if you see someone else besides drak in the chat, say hi and wait for a response for like....15 minutes or so. i apoligize, but like drak, i got plans this weekend, and will be leaving at noon western time and won't be back until atleast monday, tuesday at the latest.

[Cogidubnus]

Incidentally, I'm hanging around cos I'd like to play at some point, but as I haven't touched the game since the advent of 4th edition, I can't until I get the rules under my belt again.

Though I do remember the days of The Eye of Terror, Craftworld Eldar and Imperial Guard Armoured Companies in White Dwarf fondly enough, when half the armies had variant options.

[The_Admiral]

Does anyone knows any reasons on my side the server would disconnect?

EDIT: Hmm server seems to be down

[pheonix1405]

that it is, and until drak gets back, there aint nothing we can do about it, so until i get back, goodbye

[pheonix1405]

i'm back!
and theres no one been posting....oh well

[Cheesegear]

So, I was reading the thread, right up until the part where codecies were arbitrarily banned. Admittedly, this was only three to four posts in, so I didn't read much. Then I came back a few days later, and, it wasn't much better.


it's not that were trying to stop the cheapness. believe me, when i say, that 500 points in an ork player who knows the codex will throw up a steel WALL that is unstoppable for atleast long enouph for me to get 2 tanks (i started playing as guard, btw).

I'll start by saying that you don't need tanks to kill Orks.
I'll follow this statement by saying that if you've gone ahead and banned Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights...Imperial Guard have nothing to fear, from anyone. Imperial Guard were considered the single-most broken Codex in the game for a while.

Your term 'basic Codex' is...A terrible term. Because they're all basic Codecies.


it's that we don't want people who come in and use their super over powered abilities that has been petted and made powerful by GW (:smallfurious:).

Without Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights, Imperial Guard Orders are the single-most powerful ability in the game. Is this allowed? Or will you ban that too?


space marines are op and are the first to get updated in every new edition

They're really not. And it's because they sell. They are the first to get updated every edition because that is what people want.


were not trying to get the upper hand on anyone

But you are.
Dark Eldar fear nothing except armies with Bolters, and, who have the ability to be as good at close combat as they are. Enter Space Wolves and Blood Angels and Grey Knights. Vanilla Marines have Bolters, but they don't have the Assault capabilities to go toe-to-toe with Dark Eldar when - not if, when - they get there.

Infantry Guard fear nothing except armies that can close into Assault quickly. They don't even fear Bolters because there's that many of them. Truthfully, Imperial Guard is one of the most broken Codecies in the game. The thing that stops them being broken in the real world is the pure $:points ratio which is woefully small. By removing Guards' currency cost, they are rampant for abuse. Especially if you remove the two/three most effective armies against them.

I'm honestly not trying to tell you that your rules are terrible, it's been said already. I'm telling you that the reason that the Codecies coming out now are so good, is because they need to be better or as good as the Codecies that came before.

If you want 'fair'...You can only play Black Templars, Dark Angels, Eldar, Tau, Witch Hunters and even Necrons. If you bring in any fifth edition Codex - including Vanilla Marines - you've already ruined the game.


i'm back!
and theres no one been posting....oh well

I presume it's the way that the leaders of the project deal with criticisms that led people to leave.

No need to show me the door*. I know my way out.

*"If you don't like it, then leave" is actually the best way you can guarantee people to leave.

[Renegade Paladin]

what he said, evidentilly, people haven't got the message, so let me spell it out for you:
if you don't like the rules we've set in place, GO ARGUE ABOUT IT ELSEWHERE
To add the only thing that needs adding to Cheesegear's excellent post, you don't own the thread. We'll talk about what we like in relation to the topic, which in this case is how terribly you're handling the whole affair.

[pheonix1405]

To add the only thing that needs adding to Cheesegear's excellent post, you don't own the thread. We'll talk about what we like in relation to the topic, which in this case is how terribly you're handling the whole affair.

feel free, ruin the game for other people
and am i ruining it for some others? yes, get over it, the emphasis is in 'some'

[Cheesegear]

Just thought I'd come to see what else is new...


am i ruining it for some others? yes, get over it, the emphasis is in 'some'

So, the moral of the story is that you're not being fair at all? The ones who realise that you're not being fair, you don't care about?

...Check. I'm done.

[The_Admiral]

I don't play against guard at all so can someone tell me why without the other space marines codex guard are considered broken?

[Renegade Paladin]

Armor saturation and infantry saturation in the same army, mainly. Orders are just the icing on the cake; a Guard officer can make any infantry squad rapid fire three times instead of two, count all their weapons as twin-linked against vehicles or monstrous creatures, make you reroll successful cover saves against a squad's shooting, let a squad roll 3d6 for run distance, and a few other goodies. Now realize that Guard infantry squads can be up to fifty models in size, plus independent characters, and a Guard army likely has more than one officer.

Yeah.

Edit: Oh yes, also 150 points for AV14. With complimentary smoke launchers included in the price. :smallamused:

[pheonix1405]

btw, i'm done fighting with everyone, if anyone is actually interested in trying this out instead of arguing about it, pm me or post

[The_Admiral]

Armor saturation and infantry saturation in the same army, mainly. Orders are just the icing on the cake; a Guard officer can make any infantry squad rapid fire three times instead of two, count all their weapons as twin-linked against vehicles or monstrous creatures, make you reroll successful cover saves against a squad's shooting, let a squad roll 3d6 for run distance, and a few other goodies. Now realize that Guard infantry squads can be up to fifty models in size, plus independent characters, and a Guard army likely has more than one officer.

Yeah.

Edit: Oh yes, also 150 points for AV14. With complimentary smoke launchers included in the price. :smallamused:


Sunddenly it seems worth it to spend all that money to buy the figures

[profitofrage]

Wow looks like youve done a great job with this one, though you do know about Vassal40k right?

[Renegade Paladin]

Wow looks like youve done a great job with this one, though you do know about Vassal40k right?
Undoubtedly, since it's been brought up in this thread once already, but then he wouldn't get to randomly ban armies he doesn't like.

[Squark]

Armor saturation and infantry saturation in the same army, mainly. Orders are just the icing on the cake; a Guard officer can make any infantry squad rapid fire three times instead of two, count all their weapons as twin-linked against vehicles or monstrous creatures, make you reroll successful cover saves against a squad's shooting, let a squad roll 3d6 for run distance, and a few other goodies. Now realize that Guard infantry squads can be up to fifty models in size, plus independent characters, and a Guard army likely has more than one officer.

Yeah.

Edit: Oh yes, also 150 points for AV14. With complimentary smoke launchers included in the price. :smallamused:

Not to mention that fitting 140 some models into one troop choice would probably give his program fits. So, yeah. Guard are broken. with a capital B. And just about every other letter in capitals, too. Or so I hear, anyway. I've only played against them once, and that was one of my better games (I actually killed stuff!)

I'll just explain the problem with banning non-codex marines as simply as I can put it; The fact that marines are so diverse, and you can design your own chapter how every you feel like it, or use one of dozens of diverse existing chapters, is what makes Marines cool. While I wish GW would diversify a bit (Marines every other release tends to bore people who aren't terribly fond of marines), you can hardly fault them for going where the money is. The point of Space Marines is they are so diverse, and that if you look for it, there's probably a marine chapter for you. And if not... Make one!

[profitofrage]

Ah ok, see I didnt so much as read the whole thread as took one look at it and went "I wonder if this guy realises theres a tool thats done most of the work for him and might help get people interested

Then I read the thread and realised that I dont suspect all that many people being interested with the kinds of attitudes you describe...though Hey if people like playing Vassal games PM me, I tend to enjoy putting together fun objective based games or add in random quirks that turn the game on its head.

[Renegade Paladin]

Not to mention that fitting 140 some models into one troop choice would probably give his program fits.
The maximum is 138 per platoon including maximum Commissars, to be precise. Unless you take Chenkov and count the Send In the Next Wave conscripts as additional members of the platoon, in which case 188. :smallamused: I don't actually own enough models to field a full strength platoon, much less two of them. :smallwink:

[pheonix1405]

Undoubtedly, since it's been brought up in this thread once already, but then he wouldn't get to randomly ban armies he doesn't like.

matter of fact, we did not know about the said program when we started, so no, it's not because we could ban armies, we could probably do that anyway. since that old saying: if theres a will, theres a way:smalltongue:

[Cogidubnus]

matter of fact, we did not know about the said program when we started, so no, it's not because we could ban armies, we could probably do that anyway. since that old saying: if theres a will, theres a way:smalltongue:

It's quite simple.

"No, I won't play against that army."

Friend of mine did it with Dwarves. Just cos his High Elves died three times in one afternoon, never making it past turn 4 with something worth having.

[arcaric]

is this still running? if it is I'd be really interested in joining. I'm completely new to warhammer but I've been using maptool for a couple of years now and this sounds like it would be fun

[DrakDarkstar]

yes it is, also, phoenix started acepting some other space marines after i asked him several times :P

[Pyromasta42]

I would much like to play here on the server because I was recently "displaced" from where I was living and no longer have my models (extensive collection of Tyranids) or anyone to play with while I am here. I also think that the exp. system in place is a good idea and I look forward to trying it out (if only I had discovered this sooner...) Also, for those who have played the Vassal version as well as this one, how does it compare?

[greaterrat6]

this seems interesting. Is the server still open?

[Rakaydos]

I dont know about maptools, but Vassal is a program that does much th same thing and has a 40k module.