Help with a Walker in the Waste

[ILM]

I'm in need of a strong, BBEG-type (more like don't-even-think-of-messing-with-him-type, actually) character. I was thinking an ancient creature of fire and ash and embers. Not the outright BURNINATE EVERYTHING MUHAHA pyro-freak, but something more subtle and creepy and inevitable. Something older. A vessel that carries fire wherever he goes, but doesn’t unleash it unless provoked. I envision him to be the crownless king of a vast expanse of barren desert that’s technically not a kingdom at all but unclaimed territory (there’s nothing to claim there anyway). He just wanders around between some small settlements and doesn’t really bug anyone or make any claim to anything, especially since everybody knows who’s boss already. Pretty much the embodiment of the scorching desert. When provoked, well, then he starts blowing stuff up with fire spells. Or, come to think of it, melee.

Flavor-wise, Walker in the Waste fits my bill 100%. Especially the capstone, that's just gold. So that’s already 10 levels taken care of, awesome! However, I’m a bit at a loss as to what’s to come before. Obviously I need a base divine spellcasting progression, but I’m torn between Cloistered Cleric, Shugenja or even Favored Soul tweaked to used only one casting stat if that’s even possible. Limited spell selection doesn’t really bother me due to the narrow thematic focus of the character. However, only Cloistered Cleric gives me the proper domains for the prerequisites.

Anyway, I’ve never actually built a proper divine caster so I’m a bit at a loss as to the classes I’d use (any other relevant PrC out there?) or the feats I might want. WitW takes care of a lot of stuff (such as the Drought aura) but Dessicating Touch seems like a really sub-par way to do melee combat, so I expect he’ll be mostly a spellslinger. There’s always the DMM option to pump the fire spells, but fluff aside I don’t think I can make a competent elemental damage-dealer with a divine base. So how do I make him a dangerous force of nature?


First edit: I'm apparently going to need the Sand or Thirst domains, which restricts me a bit as far as domain selection goes. This makes Contemplative an attractive option, no? Also, the prereqs for WitW read: "Ability to cast at least 3 spells of the Sand or Thirst domain as divine spells". Um, so if I have both domains I can enter the PrC at level 4? :smallconfused:

[Tokuhara]

Archivist? Archivist can pick any spells that a divine caster can choose, and now, you have a good SAD villain (INT)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Archivist is always an option. Due to the wording on Walker in the Waste, you could arguably enter at our 4th level, but that really depends on the DM. Even without double-dipping the domains, you should easily be able to enter it comfortably at 6th with even just one (or none) of those domains.

[ILM]

Due to the wording on Walker in the Waste, you could arguably enter at our 4th level, but that really depends on the DM. Even without double-dipping the domains, you should easily be able to enter it comfortably at 6th with even just one (or none) of those domains.
Hm, gotta go check that vs. RAW.


Archivist? Archivist can pick any spells that a divine caster can choose, and now, you have a good SAD villain (INT)
Well, the WitW's abilities trigger off Wis and Cha, so that's pretty MAD... Plus the availability of domain-specific scrolls might be a concern.

[Absol197]

I just finished up a desert campaign where the Walkers were a major presence (and one of the characters was a walker himself). Here's the thing: the prerequisite is being able to cast three spells from those domains, not having access to the domains themselves. Since a good number of the spells are on the cleric list, you can go Favored Soul and make sure to take those spells, and you have no problem.

EDIT: Based on the prerequsites, it seems that, if you have access to both domains, you can take your first Walker level at 4th. To combat this, I added a 8 ranks in Survival prereq. But really, even without doing that, does it matter for your purposes? I think your BBEG will likely be higher than 14th, so he'll have more levels of his base class than 4 anyway, right?

[ILM]

I just finished up a desert campaign where the Walkers were a major presence (and one of the characters was a walker himself). Here's the thing: the prerequisite is being able to cast three spells from those domains, not having access to the domains themselves. Since a good number of the spells are on the cleric list, you can go Favored Soul and make sure to take those spells, and you have no problem.
Actually, I checked and of the level 1 and 2 spells of those domains, only one is readily available to any cleric of the same level. In other words, there's no quicker entry possible, and off the top of my mind I can't think of another divine spellcasting PrC that lets you enter at level 4. Sure, I could pick higher-level spells from these domains to qualify, but delay entry in WitW.

[HalfDragonCube]

Well, the WitW's abilities trigger off Wis and Cha, so that's pretty MAD... Plus the availability of domain-specific scrolls might be a concern.

Age them to venerable. Their hp won't be hit because of the whole undead business, and all of their mental stats get a boost.

[Absol197]

Actually, I checked and of the level 1 and 2 spells of those domains, only one is readily available to any cleric of the same level. In other words, there's no quicker entry possible, and off the top of my mind I can't think of another divine spellcasting PrC that lets you enter at level 4. Sure, I could pick higher-level spells from these domains to qualify, but delay entry in WitW.

Prestige classes are meant to be taken at no less than 6th level. That's why the majority of them have the "8 ranks in some quasi-related skill" prerequisite, so that you can't be less than 5th when you qualify. A straight cleric without the Sand or Thirst domains qualifies at 5th level, and can take WitW at 6th. A Favored Soul is delayed to taking Walker at 7th, because of not getting 3rd level spells until 6th. But, like I said above, does it really matter? To be as awesome and have the whole "nobody wants to mess with me" vibe that your NPC has, 16th or 17th level doesn't seem unreasonable. Will the fact that he had to wait 2 more levels really matter to an NPC that the characters never learn the backstory of?

EDIT: Also, for your quandry about not being able to deal massive elemental damage with a divine caster, you could go druid. Druids get their needed 3 spells by 5th level too, and a druid gets more powerful elemental spells than a cleric/favored soul does. Firestorm especially.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Prestige classes are meant to be taken at no less than 6th level. That's why the majority of them have the "8 ranks in some quasi-related skill" prerequisite, so that you can't be less than 5th when you qualify. A straight cleric without the Sand or Thirst domains qualifies at 5th level, and can take WitW at 6th. A Favored Soul is delayed to taking Walker at 7th, because of not getting 3rd level spells until 6th. But, like I said above, does it really matter? To be as awesome and have the whole "nobody wants to mess with me" vibe that your NPC has, 16th or 17th level doesn't seem unreasonable. Will the fact that he had to waith 2 more levels really matter to an NPC that the characters never learn the backstory of?

While this may have been the case during the early days of 3.X, it's easy to note that this is not universal, considering things like Master Specialist, Stoneblessed, and other prestige classes that can easily be entered with only three or so levels.

[Absol197]

While this may have been the case during the early days of 3.X, it's easy to note that this is not universal, considering things like Master Specialist, Stoneblessed, and other prestige classes that can easily be entered with only three or so levels.

True, there are exceptions, I won't deny that, but unless there's a particular reason for it, I usually try to keep prestige classes at 6th for entry. Master Specialist (a favorite of mine), doesn't get all it's best goodies until higher level, and it makes sense that it would be taken sooner, as a wizard who really focuses on their specialty would start getting better relatively sooner. I must admit that I don't know about the Stoneblessed.

The Walker in the Waste gives a really powerful capstone ability (one that comes with a +5 (!!!) Level Adjustment). I don't think that should be achieved sooner than 16. That's just me though, and others may have different feelings.

Either way, this is acedemic: the OP is using this as an NPC, and he's free to interpret the PRestige Class whichever way he wants, and I continue to hold that it's likely this NPC will have more than 14 levels anyway, meaning what level he entered into WitW doesn't matter too terribly. If it becomes important again for a PC later, he can think about it in more detail.

[HalfDragonCube]

While this may have been the case during the early days of 3.X, it's easy to note that this is not universal, considering things like Master Specialist, Stoneblessed, and other prestige classes that can easily be entered with only three or so levels.

Yeah, such as a Wizard 1/Archivist 1/Master Specialist 1/Mystic Theurge 1. Often a caster's awesomeness is the based on the inverse of their BAB.

EDIT: Apart from gishes. Their awesomeness is based on whether they can slingshot the Tarrasque into the sun.

[Greenish]

Based on the prerequsites, it seems that, if you have access to both domains, you can take your first Walker level at 4th.Actually, cleric only needs the Sand domain to qualify after cleric 3. Archivists likewise qualify then if they can find the spells.

Druids will have to wait until level 6.

[Edit]:
off the top of my mind I can't think of another divine spellcasting PrC that lets you enter at level 4.Church Inquisitor, for example.

[ILM]

Either way, this is acedemic: the OP is using this as an NPC, and he's free to interpret the PRestige Class whichever way he wants, and I continue to hold that it's likely this NPC will have more than 14 levels anyway, meaning what level he entered into WitW doesn't matter too terribly. If it becomes important again for a PC later, he can think about it in more detail.
Correct :smallsmile:. But 6 more levels means 6 more levels' worth of cool abilities, and I'm still looking for suggestions regarding what class to fill those 6 levels with, and what feats to take. I mean, I can't fill all the feat slots with DMM and MM feats, there's gotta be some cool stuff out there. :smalltongue:

[Thrice Dead Cat]

True, there are exceptions, I won't deny that, but unless there's a particular reason for it, I usually try to keep prestige classes at 6th for entry. Master Specialist (a favorite of mine), doesn't get all it's best goodies until higher level, and it makes sense that it would be taken sooner, as a wizard who really focuses on their specialty would start getting better relatively sooner. I must admit that I don't know about the Stoneblessed.

See, I don't believe that. 3.5 is a far, far different beast from 3.0. While they may have started with the idea that PrCs were intended for at least 5th level characters, it's clear that later design does not always hold this. So, if I can qualify at X level, why not grab that sweet prestige class at X+1. Did the designers intend this for everything? Probably not. Does it really matter? Not to me.


The Walker in the Waste gives a really powerful capstone ability (one that comes with a +5 (!!!) Level Adjustment). I don't think that should be achieved sooner than 16. That's just me though, and others may have different feelings.

Either way, this is acedemic: the OP is using this as an NPC, and he's free to interpret the PRestige Class whichever way he wants, and I continue to hold that it's likely this NPC will have more than 14 levels anyway, meaning what level he entered into WitW doesn't matter too terribly. If it becomes important again for a PC later, he can think about it in more detail.

While Walker in the Waste does have a powerful capstone, it's far from the most overpowered prestige class leading up to this ability. And, honestly, considering the "optimal" method of entry is to dump your constitution score for 14 levels or otherwise waste point-buy on it. And while a rather strong template, the Dry Lich does have some nasty habits dealing with water.


Correct :smallsmile:. But 6 more levels means 6 more levels' worth of cool abilities, and I'm still looking for suggestions regarding what class to fill those 6 levels with, and what feats to take. I mean, I can't fill all the feat slots with DMM and MM feats, there's gotta be some cool stuff out there. :smalltongue:

Contemplative, a refluffed Radiant Servant of Pelor for more fire, and, really, nearly any other divine, full-casting prestige class could fit the bill. If you enter with archivist, more archivist isn't bad, honestly.

[ILM]

Contemplative, a refluffed Radiant Servant of Pelor for more fire, and, really, nearly any other divine, full-casting prestige class could fit the bill. If you enter with archivist, more archivist isn't bad, honestly.
Myeh. Most of the others had next to nothing to do with the concept I had in mind though. So far I was thinking Contemplative 1, Hierophant 1, maybe 2, Paragnostic Apostle 2 (to boost saves even further), and Elemental Savant (lame!) just because it fits in thematically. I'm thinking perhaps some metamagic specialization and mitigation, applying Spontaneous Domain to the Fire domain spells (though I haven't even looked at them yet), and Rapid Metamagic.

Alternatively, cheese the hell out of this and go Cleric 1/WitW 10/Warblade 1/RKV 7/Contemplative 1. So much power I'm not even sure I'd know what to do with it, tbh.

[Greenish]

Alternatively, cheese the hell out of this and go Cleric 1/WitW 10/Warblade 1/RKV 7/Contemplative 1. So much power I'm not even sure I'd know what to do with it, tbh.I'd use Crusader to spare a few feats from RKV entry.