The Champion

[true_shinken]

I'm considering allowing the champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623431&postcount=9) as a base class in my games.
Any broken things I should look out for? Any good combos I can suggest to my players?

[Dralnu]

Flavorful but nothing to worry about. More powerful than core-only melee, but not drastically, and it has no splatbook support.

Level 1 (biggest boost) and level 6 (flight) seem like obvious cutoff points, but it's designed so that going to 20 isn't bad either.

Combos need to keep this part in mind:
[spoiler]The avatar cannot access any class abilities from any class other than champion, such as spellcasting, fighter bonus feats, smite evil, turn undead, or wild shape. The avatar loses all racial traits as well, with the sole exception of racial adjustments to ability scores. Familiars, animal companions, and paladin mounts continue to serve the avatar as they would the champion, as do cohorts and followers gained from the Leadership feat. The champion cannot use any of his normal feats or skills when in avatar form (except for the bonus feat gained at 2nd level; see below). All equipment carried by the champion changes appearance slightly to match the avatar's overall image (and new size, if the avatar form is larger or smaller), but is otherwise unaffected.[/quote]

[true_shinken]

Combos need to keep this part in mind

The new champion feats actually create room for combos, though.

[Thespianus]

The new champion feats actually create room for combos, though.
Took me a while to find the new feats, they were located in the post after the one you linked to:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10546370&postcount=10


EDIT: They don't seem very powerful, though. The one that seems the strongest to me is the Divine Avatar, Making a Cleric or Druid 17/Champion 3 build a fairly powerful combination, allowing 9th level spells and Avatar form at the same time.

"Bite of the Weretiger" and Avatar Form ought to make it possible to push Strength well into the range of 50 or so from just entering Avatar Form and one casting of the spell.

EDIT2: Or the Dragonblooded Avatar Feat, which does the same for Arcane casting.

[Greenish]

Took me a while to find the new feats, they were located in the post after the one you linked to:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10546370&postcount=10


EDIT: They don't seem very powerful, though. The one that seems the strongest to me is the Divine Avatar, Making a Cleric or Druid 17/Champion 3 build a fairly powerful combination, allowing 9th level spells and Avatar form at the same time.

"Bite of the Weretiger" and Avatar Form ought to make it possible to push Strength well into the range of 50 or so from just entering Avatar Form and one casting of the spell.

EDIT2: Or the Dragonblooded Avatar Feat, which does the same for Arcane casting.Well, that's mostly full caster shenanigans, not Champion shenanigans. :smalltongue:

[Thespianus]

Well, that's mostly full caster shenanigans, not Champion shenanigans. :smalltongue:

I misread the stacking rules for the feats, and I see the avatar doesn't get the 1 Ability Point/ stacking level with these feats, so my idea falls apart anyhow. the "50 Strength" idea is not feasible in the way I mentioned it.

Then I can't see much that feels overpowered at all. Rich's stuff seems very well designed in general, so I'm not surprised at all.

[Demons_eye]

Anyone with a one level dip gets twice as much HP with any of the feats.

Edit: Or more depending on your class, plus a bonus ability score.

Edit:Edit: One time a day of course.

[Thespianus]

Anyone with a one level dip gets twice as much HP with any of the feats.

You need a 3 level dip to take any of the Multiclassing Feats, but yes, you do get a big fat chunk of "Get out of Death Free"-cards. It's only useable once per day, though. (Not sure how many times per day the avatar form can be taken when you gain Champion levels, I can't find that in the class description. Possibly only once / day)

[Akal Saris]

I've made a couple of champion builds, since I liked the class idea.

First, I think the champion works decently well with racial special abilities such as phrenic, half-fey, etc, combined with the feat to let you use racial abilities in your champion form (avatar kinship), at which point you switch to avatar form and have a near-unbeatable save DC from a high Charisma. Or, if playing an illumian, a near-unbeatable dex or str. For more charisma synergy, add on Dreadful Wrath, intimidate boosters, Imperious Command, and the Fearful Transformation feat.

Second, I've found that the champion can make a very strong tank, since you have two pools of HD to draw from, as well as built-in DR, resistances, high saves, and some buffing abilities, which can be decent depending on your 2 domains. It seems to me that the 'fighter multiclass' feat is very good for tanking, because you don't actually need fighter levels, and it allows you to stack a lot of combat feats onto your avatar form, as well as granting heavy armor proficiency.

[Demons_eye]

You need a 3 level dip to take any of the Multiclassing Feats, but yes, you do get a big fat chunk of "Get out of Death Free"-cards. It's only useable once per day, though. (Not sure how many times per day the avatar form can be taken when you gain Champion levels, I can't find that in the class description. Possibly only once / day)

Unless I am reading them wrong most only require Hero Form class ability, which is level 1 in the class. Hero form is 1/day 1st level +1 per day every five levels after.

[Prime32]

Previous thread on the topic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190701)
Includes some of Rich's comments and clarifications, as well as more support in the form of new spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10585214).

[true_shinken]

Previous thread on the topic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190701)
Includes some of Rich's comments and clarifications, as well as more support in the form of new spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10585214).

Prime32, you are my PRINCE, you are my GOD
but it's so complicated
you're my HERO, you are my IDOL!
...well, enough Shonen Knife. Thanks for pointing that out.
EDIT: Flight of the Avatar is... so... BEAUTIFUL