[3.P] Warblade or Swordsage?

[Kalaska'Agathas]

So, I've got a character who's about to hit epic levels. So far the build is Monk 1/Fighter 19//Bard 20 (partial gestalt is in effect, tier 3 and below can gestalt with any tier 3 and below) and Monk has been house ruled to have full BAB. So, I've got full BAB and all good saves, and since we're about to hit epic, I don't really need to worry about saves or BAB any further.

I'm planning on going Sublime Chord 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Incantatrix 10/PrC 4 for the next 20 levels on the Bard side (assuming we get that far) and my DM asked me "What are you putting on the other side?" so I get to keep Gestalting. I'd like to take Fighter 20 (The Mobile Fighter ACF has a pretty cool capstone - full attack as a standard action) so I've got 19 levels with which to play. I was thinking I'd go Warblade, since I have a high Int and I could take Song of the White Raven to keep boosting my IC, but my DM has said I could take SotWR and have it apply to Swordsage instead, if I'd like, so I need to figure out which would be better to take for the next while - Swordsage or Warblade?

Any suggestions?

[Essence_of_War]

I would run with the Warblade.

Both of them have access to action economy breaking Time Stands Still.

WB also gets access to White Raven Tactics and Iron Heart Surge. Very useful and very powerful maneuvers.

[Greenish]

Both of them have access to action economy breaking Time Stands Still.You have a most curious definition of "breaking" action economy. :smallamused:

[Kalaska'Agathas]

You have a most curious definition of "breaking" action economy. :smallamused:

It's no Synchronicity + Affinity Field but it does give you double your attacks in a round.

As to Warblade v. Swordsage - are those maneuvers enough to justify two fewer skill points per level? I'm not super concerned about it, but it would be nice to keep my skills up, being one of the party skill monkeys.

[Veyr]

The Warblade's recovery mechanic is much better than the Swordsage's, especially with Mobile Fighter. I vote Warblade.

[Essence_of_War]

If you're in a party of at least 2 other comparably good characters, White Raven Tactics is REALLY good. You can even take it as a first level warblade since your previous 20 levels give you an initiatitor level of 10.

Iron Heart Surge, which you can also take as a level 1 warblade (you might not be able to nab both WRT and IHS though due to pre-reqs), is also fantastic.

As Veyr mentioned, the recovery mechanic is WAY better also.

[Draz74]

Hmmm ... since you already have a relatively high Initiator Level for both of them ... why the heck not take both? Start with one level of each, then keep advancing just one of them (my personal preference is for Warblade). They're dip-tastic, especially at these levels.

[Veyr]

Actually, if you're going to do that, I'd very seriously considering dipping all three, and then taking Tome of Battle Prestige Classes.

I'd vote Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you can stomach the religious fluff. Dip Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, and Cleric (after Fighter 20 you're now ECL 25), and take Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 — you now cast like a Cleric 9, and have an Initiator Level of 22 in each of the Tome of Battle classes, plus the delicious Divine Impetus ability.

You could then take Master of the Nine for silly amounts of maneuvers known/readied, getting you the 9th level maneuver in every discipline most likely. If that Swordsage dip is the Unarmed variant, you get Improved Unarmed Strike You have Improved Unarmed Strike from Monk 1; as a Fighter 20, you might already have Blind-Fight, Dodge, and/or Improved Initiative; if not, that Cleric dip can actually get you Blind-Fight (Darkness or Shadow domain; both appropriate to an RKV) and Improved Initiative (Time domain), making only Dodge and Adaptive Style feats you actually have to get.


This assumes you're ignoring the bloody stupid rule about not having PrCs on both sides of a gestalt character.


If you do go just Warblade, I'd really, really want Warblade 20. You're right that Fighter 20 is good here (assuming you already have Fighter 19), but that Monk level is really hurting you...

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Actually, if you're going to do that, I'd very seriously considering dipping all three, and then taking Tome of Battle Prestige Classes.

I'd vote Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you can stomach the religious fluff. Dip Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, and Cleric (after Fighter 20 you're now ECL 25), and take Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 — you now cast like a Cleric 9, and have an Initiator Level of 22 in each of the Tome of Battle classes, plus the delicious Divine Impetus ability.

I wouldn't be able to take Cleric, first of all, because it's not a gestalt game, but a partial gestalt game. And even then I shouldn't be able to (yay permissive DMs) because Sublime Chord gets nines (and therefore is effectively tier 2) - and I can't PrC on both sides simultaneously. I'm looking for base classes that I could use to fill out the other side.


You could then take Master of the Nine for silly amounts of maneuvers known/readied, getting you the 9th level maneuver in every discipline most likely. If that Swordsage dip is the Unarmed variant, you get Improved Unarmed Strike You have Improved Unarmed Strike from Monk 1; as a Fighter 20, you might already have Blind-Fight, Dodge, and/or Improved Initiative; if not, that Cleric dip can actually get you Blind-Fight (Darkness or Shadow domain; both appropriate to an RKV) and Improved Initiative (Time domain), making only Dodge and Adaptive Style feats you actually have to get.


This assumes you're ignoring the bloody stupid rule about not having PrCs on both sides of a gestalt character.

Yeah, that rule is in effect.


If you do go just Warblade, I'd really, really want Warblade 20. You're right that Fighter 20 is good here (assuming you already have Fighter 19), but that Monk level is really hurting you...

I've got a house ruled version of Ascetic Mage that a. works with Bard and b. gives me Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike Damage, and Charisma to AC, hence the Monk level.

[Veyr]

Dual Stance is better than all of that, IMO.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Dual Stance is better than all of that, IMO.

Eh, it may be, but those things are beneficial from the get go, rather than an ability I won't get till 40th level.