3.P "Rage Prophet" PrC - is it worth it?

[panaikhan]

Our group is looking to start our first Pathfinder adventure path, and looking to sort out a versatile party.
So far we have an Alchemist, a Rogue and a Cleric, with myself and two other players still undecided.
I know my Opt-Fu is low - I tend to prefer interesting characters over powerful ones.

Thumbing through the APG I spotted the Rage Prophet PrC - this appeals to me purely from a fluff point of view at the moment, and the party does still need a beat-stick or two.
So, as the title says - is it worth it? What's the lowest entry? Can it be a front-line smack-down kinda guy?

My starting thoughts:
Race: Half-Orc.
Stats: 10 12 12 14 15 16 (rolled)
As the campaign starts at Lv1, is it best to start as Barbarian or Oracle?

[grarrrg]

party does still need a beat-stick or two.
So, as the title says - is it worth it? What's the lowest entry? Can it be a front-line smack-down kinda guy?
...is it best to start as Barbarian or Oracle?

For entry, you'd need Barb 2 for Moment of Clarity, Oracle 1 for the Curse and Divine spells. And 3 more levels in either to get the Bab and Knowledge ranks.
Earliest entry would be Qualify at 6, First level at 7

As for making a Front-liner, I would recommend considering either "Lore" or "Nature" as your mystery. They both have a revelation that REPLACES Dex-to-AC with Cha-to-AC, this will help free up some Stat points, and make you less MAD.
I admit that Lore/Nature are not the most combat oriented Mysteries, but you won't have that many levels of Oracle (and therefore, revelations) anyway.

[panaikhan]

I was looking at "Nature" to be honest.
Are there any useful abilities that can be gotten by either Barbarian or Oracle by level 4 or below, just to give a focus to the levels before going Rage Prophet?

[grarrrg]

I was looking at "Nature" to be honest.
Are there any useful abilities that can be gotten by either Barbarian or Oracle by level 4 or below, just to give a focus to the levels before going Rage Prophet?

Starting from Barb 2 / Oracle 1. 3 levels to play with.
Both give you the same Skills and Bab for these 3 levels.
Rage Prophet stacks to determine EFFECTS of Rage Powers, Revelations, and Curse. It does NOT grant additional Powers or Revelations.
I'd recommend sticking to those abilities that increase with level.

Barb has good Fort save.
Each level of Barb is worth 2 hp (avg) more than a level of Oracle.
Each level of Barb gives you +2 rounds of Rage
Barb 3 gives Trap Sense +1
Barb 4 gives you your first real Rage Power (first was Moment of Clarity)
Barb 5 gives Improved Uncanny Dodge

Oracle has good Will save.
Oracle grants a more spells known/cast with each level
Oracle 2 gives you your first Mystery spell (Charm Animal for Nature)
Oracle 3 gives another Revelation
Oracle 4 gives you your second Mystery spell (the MUCH more useful Barkskin)

Of the 3 levels you have to play with, it is probably best to stick them all in one class or the other, as Barb 3 and Oracle 2 are fairly poor bonues.
I recommend all 3 in Barb for "smashy-smashy" as it gets you extra rounds of Rage (although, at Rage Prophet 6 you can sacrifice spells to gain extra Rage).
If you need/want to be more of a caster, than all 3 in Oracle would be better for the quick boost to casting.

You may also want to consider the Barb ACF's,
Drunken Brute (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian#TOC-Drunken-Brute), trade away Fast Movement, lets you drink as a move action, and drinking alchohol while raging effectively gives you an extra round of Rage.
Invulnerable Rager (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian#TOC-Invulnerable-Rager), trade away Uncanny Dodge get better DR progression (1/2 Barb level).
There are also a variety of ACF's that trade away Trap Sense.

[panaikhan]

Thank you, for your assistance.

I'm angling towards B4 / O2, taking the Invunerable Rager option, and going for the Rage power that gives claw attacks.
Taking the Half-Orc racial option for a Bite gives me some nice close-combat.
For the Oracle Curse I was looking at Lame - this would be offset somewhat by the Barbarian's fast movement.
Unless I can squeeze a little more cheeze out of one of the others, this seems about set.

[Veyr]

I'm afraid I cannot help, since I don't know Pathfinder terribly well, but...

I know my Opt-Fu is low - I tend to prefer interesting characters over powerful ones.Please don't fall into the Stormwind fallacy. It's kind of insulting to optimizers to suggest that optimized characters are intrisincly less interesting.

[Prime32]

You can qualify as an oracle 1/cleric 12 (with the Destruction [Rage] domain) and use it to advance your cleric casting, though I'm not sure how much point there would be since you can't take a lot of levels in the PrC or gain mysteries.


I'm angling towards B4 / O2, taking the Invunerable Rager option, and going for the Rage power that gives claw attacks.Make sure you follow up with the power that grants Pounce, since the claws are a prereq anyway.

[panaikhan]

It's kind of insulting to optimizers to suggest that optimized characters are intrisincly less interesting.

I merely meant I often choose fluff over crunch.

That said, it's kind of insulting for me when I suggest a character concept that I find interesting, only to be told that 'the optimization sucks'.

[Veyr]

I merely meant I often choose fluff over crunch.
There's no reason why you can't have both.


That said, it's kind of insulting for me when I suggest a character concept that I find interesting, only to be told that 'the optimization sucks'.
When you start a thread on optimization advice ("Help me build..." "is X worth it?" etc), aren't you asking to be told if the optimization sucks?

[panaikhan]

When you start a thread on optimization advice ("Help me build..." "is X worth it?" etc), aren't you asking to be told if the optimization sucks?

If I start a thread asking for ideas about a particular build, I would like ideas about that particular build.
Often I get answers like "here's a completely different concept / build , because yours sucks".

Anyway. I meant no offence, tried to explain my reasoning, and would like to leave it there.