[Ptolus] Special Materials

[Waldham]

BLACK ADAMANTINE
It has the same qualities as adamantine except that it also proves resistant to spells or magical effects that would damage or affect it (like disintegrate or even passwall) with a spell resistance of 25. Further, those in the know (Knowledge [arcana], DC 30) can use a wish spell to make black adamantine completely impervious to physical force or spells.
Black adamantine is worth three times as much as normal adamantine.

HELIOTHIL
Heliothil is a pale violet stone that has negative weight. A stone that should weigh about 1 lb. has in fact 5 lbs. of negative weight. T would fall upward at a great rate and disappear into the sky. However, it also means that securing 5 lbs. of normal material to the “1 lb.” bit of heliothil renders the normal material effectively weightless.
Heliothil is not magical, at least not in the technical sense of the word. It retains its negative weight in an antimagic field.
Heliothil is worth 100 gp per negative pound.

MARLITE
Marlite shines like blue-tinted iron and can be processed into a metal as hard and resilient as steel. Marlite is far more valuable than steel, however, for its secondary property: Marlite is a magic-dead material. It has no natural magic within it, and it cannot be affected by spells, magic items, or spell-like abilities. In effect, it has an infinite amount of spell resistance. A sword
made of marlite couldn’t be affected by a heat metal spell, nor could it be magically disintegrated.
No one could move it with telekinesis. This means, of course, that magic can’t affect it in beneficial ways, either—it couldn’t receive a magic weapon or keen weapon spell. It could not be given magical properties or an enhancement bonus.
Armor made of marlite gives the wearer no special properties. Spells can still affect the wearer, just not the armor directly.
An item made with marlite instead of iron or steel costs ten times the normal price.

MOONSILVER
Called “ithilirid” by the elves, this metal is always found in liquid form, looking not unlike mercury. One can use it to coat a solid surface, to which it then adheres, protecting the surface as if it were made of iron. The surface retains all normal flexibility. Thus, one could apply it to a person to grant him the benefits of wearing armor (+4, +6, or +8 armor bonus to Armor
Class, depending on how much is available) with none of armor’s drawbacks—no armor check penalty, maximum Dexterity, or spell failure
chance. The sealed containers made of these materials (ithilnaur) can be used to store moonsilver.
Moonsilver costs depend on the amount of the substance. Enough for a +4 armor bonus costs 200 gp; +6 costs 400 gp; and +8 costs 600 gp. You cannot use a partial dose or multiple doses.

Is it possible to create a hollow full plate in black adamantite or marlite with moonsilver inside and inserted heliothil ?

Thanks for your future help

[Waldham]

Nobody to answer me ?

[Bayar]

Maybe, although coating it in moonsilver won't grant any bonus AC or remove the existing armor's penalties.

Also, some of those are grossly underpriced.

[Waldham]

you are wrong, read this :

none of armor’s drawbacks—no armor check penalty, maximum Dexterity, or spell failure

[Bayar]

you are wrong, read this :

Quoting out of context makes it seem to work that way, but read the whole phrase:


Thus, one could apply it to a person to grant him the benefits of wearing armor (+4, +6, or +8 armor bonus to Armor
Class, depending on how much is available) with none of armor’s drawbacks—no armor check penalty, maximum Dexterity, or spell failure
chance.

Armor is not a person. Even if it would have been a magical sentient armor, the bonuses would be applied to the armor, not yourself.

[Waldham]

coat a solid surface

ok but a person isn't a solid surface, no ?

[Bayar]

ok but a person isn't a solid surface, no ?

Unless persons usually come with liquid or gas surfaces, yes they are.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Moved to Homebrew Design.

Burble.

[Kellus]

Why is heliothil measured by the approximate weight it might have if it wasn't falling upwards? There's no way to measure that, since it falls upwards. There's no way of knowing how much it might weigh otherwise, and it's even sillier to say that that's a fifth as much normal weight as it actually has in upwards weight. It should just be priced by negative weight, as in it costs 100 gp for -5 lb of it (or just 20 gp if you want to sell it by the -lb).

[Waldham]

how many heliothil did it need to negate the weight of the full plate ?

[Veklim]

Heliothil is worth 100 gp per negative pound.

Thusly speaking, it would need -50lbs to negate fullplate (although I'd only use 49 personally) so it would cost 4900 gp upon the current prices (which are completely out imho). 500 gp per -1lb seems more like it to me...

[ericgrau]

I like these, very creative.


Why is heliothil measured by the approximate weight it might have if it wasn't falling upwards? There's no way to measure that, since it falls upwards. There's no way of knowing how much it might weigh otherwise, and it's even sillier to say that that's a fifth as much normal weight as it actually has in upwards weight. It should just be priced by negative weight, as in it costs 100 gp for -5 lb of it (or just 20 gp if you want to sell it by the -lb).
Upside-down scale.

HELIOTHIL: A big ship is around 1000 tons, or 200,000 pounds. Mithril and darkwood could cut that down to 100,000 pounds. Smaller ships might weigh 25,000 pounds. So a Heliothil airship might be 2.5 million gp which is out of the range of most pre-epic adventurer parties. I'd decrease the price to maybe 25 gp per negative pound to make it usable.

MOONSILVER: You need to clarify how long it lasts. If it lasts forever then that's a bit cheap.

[Kellus]

Upside-down scale.

False. The reading on an upside-down scale would show the negative weight of the chunk of heliothil, which is the amount of normal matter it could displace. But heliothil is explicitly measured by the arbitrary measurement of how much it might weight if it didn't have negative weight, which is apparently a fifth as much as the weight it actually has (just in the other direction).


A stone that should weigh about 1 lb. has in fact 5 lbs. of negative weight.

My question was why the heck you're measuring it by an imaginary weight it doesn't possess.

I'm also not sure how well helothil would work for airships or flying castles, unfortunately. Since the weight displacement doesn't have anything to do with air pressure, it would be pretty much impossible to make an airship whose lift comes solely from that. You would have to combine a more traditional source of lift, such as propellers or lighter-than-air gas. The most you can do with the heliothil is just reduce the normal weight of the craft beforehand. The upside is that instead of making airships out of canvas or fabric you can make them out of really heavy stuff. But that much heliothil is going to take up a lot of space, which would make the whole thing pretty bulky.

It would make more sense to give us an idea of the volume that helothil takes up so that we know how much space you would need to store it. Your airship had also better be made out of something really sturdy, because otherwise the helothil is going to rip straight through it. It would be like putting an anvil on a rowboat, except upside down.

[ericgrau]

Oh ya the 1 lb. part is pretty meaningless. I'd weigh the upward force only. So now I wonder if the OP means 100 gp per 5 lbs. of upward force, which is about right, or 100 gp per 1 lb. of upward force, which is too expensive.

If heliothil has a similar density to stone (very high) times negative 5, then knowing the volume is very unnecessary as it will be tiny compared to everything else on the ship. A 1'x5'x5' block should handle an entire 10 ton ship. Or more likely smaller pieces spread throughout the ship, but point is you wouldn't even notice the cargo space. If you mean you want to know about smallerl pieces for personal use, then 1 pound of stone (-5 lbs. heliothil I presume) is about a 2 inch cube or a 2.5" diameter sphere. i.e., a piece of rock that fits in your hand.

[Kellus]

If heliothil has a similar density to stone (very high) times negative 5, then knowing the volume is very unnecessary as it will be tiny compared to everything else on the ship. A 1'x5'x5' block should handle an entire 10 ton ship. Or more likely smaller pieces spread throughout the ship, but point is you wouldn't even notice the cargo space. If you mean you want to know about smallerl pieces for personal use, then 1 pound of stone (-5 lbs. heliothil I presume) is about a 2 inch cube or a 2.5" diameter sphere. i.e., a piece of rock that fits in your hand.

It's certainly interesting, there's no denying that. It just doesn't seem to lend itself well to actually making things fly. I think the main intention is probably just to obviate encumbrance issues. Still, it's a cool thing to have in the world.

I'm actually quite confused: did the OP create these materials? Apparently Ptolus is a campaign setting by Monte Cook, so are these materials homebrewed for that or are they actually part of the setting?

[The Glyphstone]

I thought they were homebrewed material...

[Kellus]

I thought they were homebrewed material...

That's what I thought too, but in the first post the OP is asking for rules clarifications on them.

[ericgrau]

A quick google reveals that they seem to come from a forum user named ptolus or maybe literature he or the OP found. If it's published material it isn't anywhere online that I noticed.

As for the question I think the OP needs to come up with custom rules for interaction between spell resistant armor and player spell resistance. IMO apply the armor bonus to the player's touch AC and saves against rays and area spells, but other spells affect the player normally. In the case of unwished black adamantine the caster can overcome its SR to negate this bonus. Heliothil could be used to lighten a player's load, including backpack or armor, sure, and it's not unbalancing. Armor check penalty and movement speed reduction would remain unchanged however because the armor is still bulky and hard to move around.

[Debihuman]

These special materials are written up in the Ptolus Campaign by Monte Cooke and are not homebrewed. See Ptolus Pt 2 The World of Praemal page 12.

The question was: Is it possible to create a hollow full plate in black adamantite or marlite with moonsilver inside and inserted heliothil?

First, all suits of armor are hollow or you would not be able to wear it.

However, I believe you wanted the armor itself to be hollow. Metal armor usually isn't very thick. Whether you can make a hollow armor is a question that the rules don't address. Ask your DM if this is possible. Every DM will give a different answer.

From the text it is clear that you can make a regular suit of armor with either black adamantite or marlite. It even states, "Armor made of marlite gives the wearer no special properties."

There is no reason you couldn't coat the inside of the armor with moonsilver though I see no difference whether the inside or outside were coated. It still fades away in 4 hours.

If you insert or inlay heliothil into your armor, you decrease its weight by 5 pounds for every "pound" of heliothil. This makes the armor lighter by 5 pounds per "pound" of heliothil. This offsets some of the encumbrance of full-plate. You should ask your DM how much heliothil can you put on the armor. Every DM will give a different answer.

What did you hope to accomplish with the armor?

Debby