[3.P] Alter Self and Polymorph

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'm trying to figure out how these spells work, especially as regards cosmetic features.

The reason I'm including polymorph is that the Pathfinder rules specify that polymorphing into a humanoid works as alter self.


You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

The Pathfinder version of the spell has no such language and doesn't mention cosmetic features at all; the sidebar for polymorph says you get a +20 bonus to Disguise, but that you cannot change into specific individuals.

So, how much control does the caster have over the final appearance of the target? Can the caster effectively make the target appear however he wants within racial norms? Does the Disguise bonus serve any purpose whatsoever?

[Leolo]

There is a paragraph in the polymorph subschool description.


Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type.

All other things are up to the DM. That does also mean RAW: If you are an average human, and polymorph into another average human it is easier for you to disguise as another specific person. Even if the 2nd average human has nothing to do with the person you want to disguise as. Same problems come with the static bonuses. If you transform yourself into an old woman you will become stronger.

Also it is unclear how good you can imitate your target. Can you look like an average orc? Sure. Can you look like the average orc in front of you? Rules as written you can not, even if those orc has nothing specific that would be different to an simple average orc.

Pathfinders Polymorph is now simple a way to get additional movement modes and ability boosts, not really a way to polymorph into someone. Just another buff.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Thanks for the tip. I found the relevant rules.

I still don't understand them, though. I can't reconcile the statements "many of the fine details can be controlled" and "your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type", largely because I have no idea what a "generic human" looks like.

[Leolo]

It is up to your DM. That's not really a good solution, and i think the polymorph / shapechange changes are one of the least well thought changes in pathfinder. Because it makes an interresting spell with story potential (but also very good benefits that can buff you) to a spell that is now primary usefull for buffing. In both editions the spell needs a DM who makes it function in his campaign, and house rules it.

There are other issues with the PRPG version, too - for example that there are creatures you can not polymorph into (as no polymorph spells for this creature type exist), or if non humanoid creatures use the spells (they can still only polymorph into humanoids). Or the already mentioned static bonus regardless if the origin and target creature match the bonus.

Personally i find still the greatest issue with polymorph is that no one explains what creatures you know to polymorph into. This is the same problem as in 3.5, but it is even greater in pathfinder as you can not polymorph into someone you have seen. And therefore this common house ruling does no longer makes sense. Because it makes it even less logical. You can not look like (for example) the only drow you have seen in your life - but polymorphing into a average looking drow is no problem, even if you do not know what an average drow looks like. In fact there is no reason why you would need to "know" the creature. You can not polymorph into this creature anyway.

But in the end it is like every "bad" rule - you can change it.