All-cleric party?

[zyborg]

Would an all-cleric party work out? If each cleric has different domains and has different roles by preparing certain sets of spells? How plausible is that?

[Vladislav]

Cleric is one class that allows the most customization, simply by virtue of domain spells, domain powers, and divine feats. You can have a roguish Cleric, a warrior Cleric, a paladin-like Cleric, a wild,almost barbarian Cleric, an Illusionist/Enchanter Cleric, a blaster Cleric, etc.

I think this can work. The "my god can beat up your god" banter should certainly be interesting!

[Hiro Protagonest]

Would an all-cleric party work out? If each cleric has different domains and has different roles by preparing certain sets of spells? How plausible is that?

It would work pretty well. The melee cleric would prepare bane, as he would be in the middle of the enemies, and have the war domain and one other. They would spend feats on martial study and martial stance, and at least one of the other clerics would prepare shield other and bless. In fact, a straight cleric is probably a better warrior than a straight fighter, if he uses buff spells on himself. The cleric replacing the battle caster should prepare bless, bane, buff spells, doom, summon monster, enthrall, hold person, and others.

The only role it really couldn't fill is skill monkey.

[*.*.*.*]

The only role it really couldn't fill is skill monkey.

Cloistered cleric

/done

[Timeless Error]

The only role it really couldn't fill is skill monkey.

There's a cloistered cleric variant in Unearthed Arcana, which is a cleric with more skill points and rogue-ish class skills. This, plus the find traps spell prepared quite a bit, should cover a skillmonkey's role nicely.

EDIT: Curse you, ninja! *Smites*

[TheCountAlucard]

It works amazingly. Team Cleric is great. Heck, in one webcomic, the group was playing four dwarven clerics, and they steamrolled the adventure module, even though one of them had made a serious mistake with his character build. :smalltongue:

[MrRigger]

This is the start of that particular arc. (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=247) It's awesome. And for a skill monkey cleric, there's always Divine Insight.

MrRigger

[Ravens_cry]

Go, Team Cleric! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html)
But seriously, it would definitely work.

[Tvtyrant]

The only other option I can think of that would work as well without multiclassing would be Druid, because of all the different wildshaping feats. Cleric is pretty much awesome.

[Devmaar]

The only other option I can think of that would work as well without multiclassing would be Druid, because of all the different wildshaping feats. Cleric is pretty much awesome.

I think Artificer could handle it as well, particularly at higher levels.

[Jude_H]

The closest I've played was an all-divine Oriental Adventures party.

It was low level and mostly took place in the Shadowlands. Apparently the Shadowlands are very unfriendly to divine casters. It did not go well. We failed a lot of spells, got bad cases of taint and were eaten by a pack of wandering fog-wolf things.

I get the feeling that game wasn't representative.

[Thunder Hammer]

I think an all cleric team could work really well, btw thanks for posting that comic.

[zyborg]

Maybe I should think about playing a game with a cleric theme. Sounds like fun. And any mistakes in it will be clerical errors.

[NNescio]

Cloistered cleric

/done

Also, Kobold Domain. Who needs a trapmonkey?

[Talvereaux]

I'd say you can make a party entirely of any one of the tier 1 classes, and it would go swimmingly. They're definitely versatile enough to cover all your bases if they get distinct builds, and powerful to boot.

[Kylarra]

Also, Kobold Domain. Who needs a trapmonkey?That's what the summon elemental reserve feat is for.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'd say you can make a party entirely of any one of the tier 1 classes, and it would go swimmingly. They're definitely versatile enough to cover all your bases if they get distinct builds, and powerful to boot.

Well, sorcerers do get simple weapon proficiency, mage armor and shield to boost your frontline durability, plus bear's endurance, bull's strength, and cat's grace for boosting physical stats. You can also do this with wizards, but you're less likely to be able to use all your buffs each encounter, as you get less spells per day.

[thorr-kan]

We did the God Squad for awhile with 2ED Specialty Priests and Clerics in the FR. It was GREAT!

[TroubleBrewing]

Heck, it works even if all the clerics have the same god and the same domains. Clerics are rad.

My second D&D character was a healbot, my third was an AOE-damage caster, my fourth was a de-buffer, and my fifth was a melee beatstick.

All Clerics. All awesome. :smalltongue:

(My first was a Monk. Eeeeeeemmmmbbbbaaarrrasssiiiinnnngggg. :smallfrown:)

[Greylond]

A friend of mine in Dallas runs a game of AD&D 1st Edition on April Fool's day every year. It is the celebration of the birthday of the Elven God Erevan Ilesere, God of Thieves, Mischief, etc. Every character is a Elven Cleric. Either a Straight Cleric or a Multi-Class. It's a lot of fun and works out great. Along with the theme of April Fools day every Character gets a "Joy Buzzer"(Shocking Grasp Ring) and a "Rubber Chicken"(slapstick club that does a Tasha's Irresistible Dance on the target when hit). Usually a very dangerous mission that has a underlying theme of zany fun.

Lost of fun, and yes, there is alcohol involved cause it is played in the back room of a Bar(Over 21 and older, by invitation only so it is a good and well known bunch of friends).

[Dr.Epic]

I see no way it couldn't work. They can all heal, fight, and dish out the offensive damage-dealing spells.

[Eldariel]

I assume this is meant to be in the 3.X D&D forum? In that case, it works exceedingly well. An all-Cleric party is the easiest one-class party to cover absolutely everything with.

Between Domains, Cloistered Cleric, minor multiclassing into full casting PRCs & feats you can get any skill whatsoever in class, and Clerics can easily buff themselves strong enough to fight all day to clear out any monsters not worthy of spells and again with appropriate domain and feat choices, they can cast with the best of them.

[TroubleBrewing]

Not to mention 3/4 BAB, full-plate proficiency, and d8 HD. On paper, it looks better than the wizards 1/2 BAB, no armor, and d4 HD.

There are many more difference, of course. But I prefer Clerics.

I think that preference is grounded in my first game ever; Cleric, Wizard, Druid, and Monk get into a scrap. Town guard has us surrounded, so the Druid turns into a bird and flies off. The wizard teleports away leaving the Monk to die, but the Cleric? The Cleric (using a free action) told me he'd speak to Pelor on my behalf.

And then Planeshifted away.

Effing full casters. :smallannoyed:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Edition plz? :smalltongue:

* * * *

In 3.x, of course it does. Personally, I prefer an all-Druid party since it comes with it's own meat-shields but Clerics will work as well.

In 4e, maybe? I don't think it would be all that fun, but an all-Divine party is easy enough to do.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oh! And give all the clerics leadership, and have their cohorts be druids! :smallbiggrin:

[ericgrau]

Nah make the cohorts more dwarven clerics with shield other, and have the followers surround the cohorts and spam cure light wounds. Get enlarged shield other if possible so they can stay 1 room behind in the dungeon, and possibly a wand of it so they can run, hide and recast it later whenever 70+ feet isn't enough.

[Gullintanni]

You don't even need Melee. Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command Undead. Throw on some party wide buffs, some Awaken Undeads...maybe Animate Object then Miracle for Permanency and you've got your own private army.

[Divide by Zero]

I'd say you can make a party entirely of any one of the tier 1 classes, and it would go swimmingly. They're definitely versatile enough to cover all your bases if they get distinct builds, and powerful to boot.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of Tier 1? They can do anything, and do it well.

[Firechanter]

Team Cleric? Sounds pretty awesome. You can have one tanky melee cleric, one archer cleric (the archetypical CAP), one cloistered skillmonkey cleric, and... um well, since each of these has full casting, you've pretty much got your bases covered. Maybe add a summoner or necro cleric for added bang.

[zyborg]

Perhaps this could be moved to the recruitment thread, as I REALLY want to play this now. And maybe someone could help me make a cleric for this. My previous cleric wasn't optimized for a regular party, so I need help making one optimized for a cleric party.

[holywhippet]

I think that preference is grounded in my first game ever; Cleric, Wizard, Druid, and Monk get into a scrap. Town guard has us surrounded, so the Druid turns into a bird and flies off. The wizard teleports away leaving the Monk to die, but the Cleric? The Cleric (using a free action) told me he'd speak to Pelor on my behalf.

A monk should have a chance to escape under those circumstances. You'd just need a high enough tumble skill to get past the guards then use your superior monk speed to head for the hills.

Funnily enough, if I ever play another monk I'd be going for a monk/cleric/sacred fist since it covers a lot of the weaknesses of the monk by adding the greatness of the cleric (plus full BAB progression).

[Jack_Simth]

That's what the summon elemental reserve feat is for.
That doesn't work out until at least 9th, though; the feat requires 4th level spells. You ALSO either need to Persist Detect Magic (or have a feat to do it - see Magic Sensitive), and you need to have a way to do large quantities of damage to objects at range (Fiery Burst or Acidic Splatter, generally).

But yes, you can make a trapsmith Cleric that way fairly readily. Until then, you'll need a Kobold Domain Cloistered Cleric.

But yes; one Kobold&Trickery Domain Cloistered cleric (for trapfinding and stealth), one Magic&Travel Domain cleric (to use all those wands and staves you run across, and to get you from place to place), one War&Strength Domain cleric (for melee), and a backup Cleric with the domains you really don't want to be without (Travel and... something...).

Of course, if you want to cheese it up a bit, make them all DMM(Persistent Spell) clerics. Have each of them do a different set of party buffs - when everyone is running around with Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (Spell Compendium: +3 Morale to attack/Damage, +1 attack as per Haste), Recitation (Spell Compendium: +2 or +3 Luck to attack rolls, saves, and AC), Elation (Book of Exalted Deeds: +2 Morale to Strength and Dex, +5 foot move), Holy Aura (PHB), Heroes' Feast (PHB), and Vigorous Circle (Spell Compendium: Fast Healing-3) (Do note that all spells listed here are either acceptable for Persisting, or last long enough that the persist isn't needed - and all of these can affect the entire party once you're high enough level to cast them), you can do some really mean stuff to encounters. All day. And only five of those need Persistent Spell - which means if everyone can arrange to Persist just one or two spells, well...

[Eldariel]

But yes, you can make a trapsmith Cleric that way fairly readily. Until then, you'll need a Kobold Domain Cloistered Cleric.

You can use Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment too. That's available on 5 AFAIK (though since you can't take a feat on 5, 6).

[TroubleBrewing]

A monk should have a chance to escape under those circumstances. You'd just need a high enough tumble skill to get past the guards then use your superior monk speed to head for the hills.

Yeah, except that as Int was the only stat I could dump (Alongside Cha, of course), I didn't have the necessary skills for Tumble. Jump, Balance, Climb, Move Silently and Hide, and that's all she wrote.


Funnily enough, if I ever play another monk I'd be going for a monk/cleric/sacred fist since it covers a lot of the weaknesses of the monk by adding the greatness of the cleric (plus full BAB progression).


Why not just go straight Cleric as it covers all of the weaknesses of the monk, while adding none of the weaknesses of the monk? :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Why not just go straight Cleric as it covers all of the weaknesses of the monk, while adding none of the weaknesses of the monk? :smalltongue:

I dunno, the Unarmed Damage Dice and extra attacks and Wis to AC (from class feature) can be useful on a Cleric. I mean, Clerics are pretty much the Gods of size increases and high base damage dice tend to synergise with those.

[TroubleBrewing]

I dunno, the Unarmed Damage Dice and extra attacks and Wis to AC (from class feature) can be useful on a Cleric. I mean, Clerics are pretty much the Gods of size increases and high base damage dice tend to synergise with those.

Fair. At the same time, finding a deity whose favored weapon is "ROOOAAARRRRFIST" is going to be challenging.

Not that you need the bonus, but still.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Fair. At the same time, finding a deity whose favored weapon is "ROOOAAARRRRFIST" is going to be challenging.

Kord, god of brawlers.

Okay, so technically his favored weapon is greatsword and he's chaotic. Details, details.

[BlueWizard]

I tried to run this on the boards and found little interest. Everyone wants to be the Priest and only priest. :smallcool:

[ericgrau]

I think that preference is grounded in my first game ever; Cleric, Wizard, Druid, and Monk get into a scrap. Town guard has us surrounded, so the Druid turns into a bird and flies off. The wizard teleports away leaving the Monk to die, but the Cleric? The Cleric (using a free action) told me he'd speak to Pelor on my behalf.
Besides how easy it is to tumble away at level 9 and outrun even horses, that's a pretty lousy elite guard that didn't ready actions to shoot to disrupt casting. I mean that's like level 1 tactics. At level 7+ anyone who calls themselves police should also have dimensional anchor. It should have gone: druid flies away, squad 1 fires then realizes it's not a spell. Wizard and cleric fail DC 30+ concentration checks from squads 2 & 3 and start cursing. Monk tumbles away and runs, carrying the wizard as a light load if he's nice. The armored cleric is too heavy and gets left behind.

That's often how it is. Players and DM know tactic X because it's on their spell list, whereas tactic Y is too advanced. Class with tactic X succeeds, class that doesn't know about tactic Y fails, rants online.

[Coidzor]

There's a cloistered cleric variant in Unearthed Arcana, which is a cleric with more skill points and rogue-ish class skills. This, plus the find traps spell prepared quite a bit, should cover a skillmonkey's role nicely.

Or even the Kobold Domain that just straight-up confers trapfinding so you have it even when you're not burning a spell on it and another spell on upping your check.

[TroubleBrewing]

*Snip*

Actually, it was just a funny story about my RL group's first D&D campaign ever, but sure, rant away. :smallamused:

[ericgrau]

Well it's funny and sad at the same time. Pretty mean to give a new player a monk either way.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Kobold Cloistered Cleric, single-classed to 20+, Trickery and Kobold domains, he was raised worshiping Kurtulmak (hence the domains) but he secretly converted to Vecna, and took the feat Whispered Secrets at 1st level (Races of Destiny). Has DMM: Persist but saves a few rebuking attempts each day just in case. Maybe dip a level of Contemplative at 17 for DMM: Persistent Choose Destiny.

Human Cleric of Zarus, Cleric 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10, Strength and War domains starting out, Oracle, Law, and Destiny domains via prestige classes. DMM: Persist and Power Attack, topping it off with Persistent Choose Destiny!

Gnome Cloistered Cleric, going Cloistered Cleric 5/ Shadow Adept 1/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Shadowcrafter 9, with the Gnome and Illusion domains, qualifying via Heightened Dark Way. Between DMM: Heighten, Earth Spell, Residual Magic, and the PH2 spontaneous domain casting for Silent Image, he can mimic any Evocation or Conjuration (Creation or Summoning) spell on the Wizard spell list, at a significantly higher reality percentage and caster level than normal, often using only a 1st level spell slot.

That should have all the bases covered, but I'll throw one more on the pile just to round it out:

Cleric of Pelor, going Cleric 5/ Morninglord 1/ Radiant Servant 5/ Morninglord 9, with the Sun and Healing domains and gaining Glory via Radiant Servant, and the PH2 spontaneous domain casting for Healing, along with a pile of turn-undead-boosting items so he can one-shot entire encounters with a single Greater Turning.

[Jack_Simth]

You can use Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment too. That's available on 5 AFAIK (though since you can't take a feat on 5, 6).When it comes down to it, isn't that just another way of getting access to the domain?

[zyborg]

I tried to run this on the boards and found little interest. Everyone wants to be the Priest and only priest. :smallcool:

What do you mean by that? Anyways... if someone makes this, I'll be any type of cleric they need me to be...

[TroubleBrewing]

Well it's funny and sad at the same time. Pretty mean to give a new player a monk either way.

Actually, we were all new. DM, all the players... Heck, the DM was worried that my unarmed damage would overshadow the Wizard's fireballs.

Yeah. We were ten, so sue us. :smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

What do you mean by that? Anyways... if someone makes this, I'll be any type of cleric they need me to be...

I'd join too.

Cleric of WAAARRRR!!! :smallfurious:

Or whatever war deity there is in the game.


Edit:

Actually, we were all new. DM, all the players... Heck, the DM was worried that my unarmed damage would overshadow the Wizard's fireballs.

Yeah. We were ten, so sue us. :smalltongue:
I gues you guys learned from the school of hard knocks.

[Acanous]

I would be willing to DM this.

[Eldariel]

When it comes down to it, isn't that just another way of getting access to the domain?

Strictly, it's a way to gain a Domain Granted Power. The important distinction is that you don't really need to in any way qualify for the Domain you want. So while Kobold-domain is limited to Kobolds, gaining the Domain through Planar Touchstone can be done as any character.

[Fisticuffs]

An all cleric party is REALLY easy, try to make an all Healer party, I dare you. :smalltongue:

[TroubleBrewing]

An all cleric party is REALLY easy, try to make an all Healer party, I dare you. :smalltongue:

Almost unworkable until they all get Gate, then it's Team Solar til doomsday. :smalltongue:

[zyborg]

I think I'd like to try the Cloistered Cleric. Would a Kobold Cloistered Cleric work?

[Acanous]

Kobold Kloistered Kleric? It'd work, just don't wear all white >.>

[Hiro Protagonest]

Kobold Kloistered Kleric? It'd work, just don't wear all white >.>

You should really get to making that recruitment thread.

Edit: now I see the joke.

[zyborg]

Kobold Kloistered Kleric? It'd work, just don't wear all white >.>

... just noticed that. <_< >_>
...reminds me of my thoughts on Mortal Kombat and Donkey Kong Country...

Anyways, what are the best skill clerics and stealth clerics? I want to be one of those...

[holywhippet]

Yeah, except that as Int was the only stat I could dump (Alongside Cha, of course), I didn't have the necessary skills for Tumble. Jump, Balance, Climb, Move Silently and Hide, and that's all she wrote.



Why not just go straight Cleric as it covers all of the weaknesses of the monk, while adding none of the weaknesses of the monk? :smalltongue:

Sadly then you missed one of the main points of being a monk - manouverability. Those bonuses to movement speed aren't so you can be first in line at the nearest shop. I'd be very reluctant to dump INT for any character because skill points can be very useful.

I've thought about straight cleric in the past vs. monk. It almost works, there's just a few little tricks the monk gets that the cleric never quite acquires, unless you pick up the right magical items.

[Greymane]

Fair. At the same time, finding a deity whose favored weapon is "ROOOAAARRRRFIST" is going to be challenging.

Not that you need the bonus, but still.

Illmater. That dude also has Vorpal Fists.

[TroubleBrewing]

Sadly then you missed one of the main points of being a monk - manouverability.

Yeah, but Travel Devotion. *Shrug*


Those bonuses to movement speed aren't so you can be first in line at the nearest shop.

Well, they certainly aren't for making a skirmisher: Flurry is a full-round action. So is your basic full attack.


I'd be very reluctant to dump INT for any character because skill points can be very useful.

Well, sure. But when you're as MAD as a Monk and need 4 good stats in a 28 point-buy situation, you go with your gut. And your fists. And your tendons. And your frontal lobes.

Again, I feel like I should throw this in here: first character. My feelings on Monks aside, I made some of the same mistakes later on with Fighters and with Paladins; this wasn't supposed to be a commentary on Monks in general. Just a funny story about a few mistakes I made in my very first 3.5 outing. That's all.

You've provided some nice exceptions to the problems I presented, but they are irrelevant; the story happened a decade ago.

[Eldariel]

Sadly then you missed one of the main points of being a monk - manouverability. Those bonuses to movement speed aren't so you can be first in line at the nearest shop

Eh, Monk movement speed bonuses take a long time to outpace basic spells like Expeditious Retreat or Haste (enhancement bonuses so they don't stack). And shapechange magic will always have the highest movement speeds. Casters are, as always, better at everything (even without using teleport; the true Skimisher's tool).

[Acanous]

If I make a recruitment thread, more people would sign up. Looks like we've got enough people interested here as it is :p

I'll go ahead and make a thread as soon as I'm done work. PM me in here for priority selection.

Will be doing it 25 point buy or 4d6b3 for stats, starting level 1, all books allowed.

[holywhippet]

Eh, Monk movement speed bonuses take a long time to outpace basic spells like Expeditious Retreat or Haste (enhancement bonuses so they don't stack). And shapechange magic will always have the highest movement speeds. Casters are, as always, better at everything (even without using teleport; the true Skimisher's tool).

Yeah, but the monk movement speed bonus is always active. You don't have to have a spell prepared or use up a shapeshifting charge. Expeditious retreat only lasts one minute per level, a monk can just keep running until they need to start making fatigue checks.

The monks speed is intended to allow things like spring attack or tumbling past the enemies in a corridor to reach the wizard hiding in the back.

Note that I'm not saying this kind of thing will actually work. Rolling past the enemies to reach the wizard will most likely just make the wizard swap places with someone next to them.

[Acanous]

Alright folks, Signup thread is GO (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10981719#post10981719)

Zyborg has a spot reserved. Other spots are open :3

[Eldariel]

Yeah, but the monk movement speed bonus is always active. You don't have to have a spell prepared or use up a shapeshifting charge. Expeditious retreat only lasts one minute per level, a monk can just keep running until they need to start making fatigue checks.

The monks speed is intended to allow things like spring attack or tumbling past the enemies in a corridor to reach the wizard hiding in the back.

Note that I'm not saying this kind of thing will actually work. Rolling past the enemies to reach the wizard will most likely just make the wizard swap places with someone next to them.

Meh, you generally persist some of those spells anyways. Not direct mobility ones but transformations or such.

[TroubleBrewing]

Meh, you generally persist some of those spells anyways. Not direct mobility ones but transformations or such.

I'm currently persisting Snowshoes, which, while only a +10ft bonus to my speed, is also only a level 1 spell. Since I'm not wearing heavy armor, I'm rocking out at 40ft/round. A Monk of my level would be moving 60ft/round, but if that's the only advantage he has, I'm weirdly ok with that. :smallamused:

[Gullintanni]

I'm currently persisting Snowshoes, which, while only a +10ft bonus to my speed, is also only a level 1 spell. Since I'm not wearing heavy armor, I'm rocking out at 40ft/round. A Monk of my level would be moving 60ft/round, but if that's the only advantage he has, I'm weirdly ok with that. :smallamused:

Let the dog have his bone :smallamused:

[TroubleBrewing]

Let the dog have his bone :smallamused:

Sure, as long as that dog knows the Cleric can Flamestrike him to death at the drop of a hat.

[HalfDragonCube]

Sure, as long as that dog knows the Cleric can Flamestrike him to death at the drop of a hat.

You killed the extended dog metaphor!

[Gullintanni]

Seems like naming him 'Sparky' would be bad luck now :smallfrown:

[HalfDragonCube]

Seems like naming him 'Sparky' would be bad luck now :smallfrown:

Isn't naming other party members 'Sparky' standard procedure for casters?:smalltongue::smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

Like that time I planned to call a Morhg 'Tarquin the Merciless'.

[Gullintanni]

Isn't naming other party members 'Sparky' standard procedure for casters?:smalltongue::smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

Like that time I planned to call a Morhg 'Tarquin the Merciless'.

I was talking about the Dog...er...Monk.

[TroubleBrewing]

I was talking about the Dog...er...Monk.

Sure. Crispy the Monk.

Imagine if the Monk fell in love with the Cleric.

"Aww... How cute. Crispy is just smitten by that Cleric friend of his!"

[HalfDragonCube]

I was talking about the Dog...er...Monk.

Same difference.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, sorcerers do get simple weapon proficiency, mage armor and shield to boost your frontline durability, plus bear's endurance, bull's strength, and cat's grace for boosting physical stats. You can also do this with wizards, but you're less likely to be able to use all your buffs each encounter, as you get less spells per day.

Consider, some spells, like Mage Armor, quickly become essentially all-day buffs. And, you get a better variety of buffs. It's rough for the first couple levels, but it gets better with the quickness.

I'm currently playing a wizard what hits things. It works fantastically.

[HalfDragonCube]

Consider, some spells, like Mage Armor, quickly become essentially all-day buffs. And, you get a better variety of buffs. It's rough for the first couple levels, but it gets better with the quickness.

I'm currently playing a wizard what hits things. It works fantastically.

'Wizard what hits things'. Yup, they work good. Anything with tier 1 casting does.