Psionic Vestiges

[Cog]

I just had a thought about the psionic vestiges presented here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a). I'd assumed that the power points given with each were for manifesting the powers given by each vestige, but that seems a little weak - Arete, for example, offers a few defenses, but those 13 PP are going to run out quickly.

Binder abilities are supernatural, though. Abilities based on spells don't require spending spell slots, and the psionic-vestige abilities are explained in that very article to be just as supernatural as every other vestiges'.

There's a couple questions here - how does this work, and how should it? For the latter, the first option seems weak, but the second - not needing to spend PP at all - seems too strong. I see a couple middle ideas:


Must pay full PP cost. PP refresh every encounter/hour/something.
No PP cost. Limit manifestation to once per five rounds.
Base manifestation is free. Augmentation must use granted PP.


Any thoughts?

[Veyr]

Unfortunately, the Su ability is the right to "manifest these Powers as a Psion would, using EBL for Manifester Level". Manifesting those Powers is still normal manifesting (as a Psion, so you're using Int, which is sort of nonsensical for a Binder to begin with), which means you need to use any PP you have in order to do it. Which, of course, is very few.

However, you should be entitled to bonus PP for a high Int score, if you have one. 1/2 * Int * EBL, if I remember correctly. That might be something?


In terms of a houserule... I'd probably change the PP to scale with EBL, and to be very much higher, or else do something like "any PP spent returns 5 rounds after it is used, to a maximum of 13", to make it more like normal Binder features.



EDIT: I just read that sidebar; I think when it says "All powers granted by vestiges...", it's referring to "powers" as a generic term for granted features, as opposed to "psionic powers". If any of the Vestiges granted a Psionic Power outright (the way the regular Vestiges do with spells; none of them say "cast as a Wizard", they all just say you have the Su ability to use spell X "as the spell", which I think is different), you'd have a case, but none of them do — they all grant the Su ability to manifest as a Psion.

In reality, this was probably a misunderstanding/poorly-thought-out choice on the part of the author of that article; it doesn't match how Vestiges work and how this is supposed to work seems unclear.

If you want to argue that that sidebar is saying that you manifest "as a Psion" except that the powers become Supernatural rather than normal psionic powers, then... we have something of a problem. As far as I can tell, there are no generic rules for a Su ability that functions "as the psionic power". That leaves us kind of in a lurch as to how to use them. Most likely, though, they wouldn't use PP at all, instead just be auto-augmented the way Psi-like Abilities are. This, however, clashes directly with the description of the abilities granted by the Vestiges.

[Person_Man]

My reading is that the powers are manifested normally, and cost the normal amount of power points to do so each time. And while they're not the best vestiges out there, they do have their uses.

First, there's a variety of different ways to get bonus power points, with the easiest method being a Mindfeeder (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Mindfeeder) enchantment on a high crit weapon. Spend some time Googling around the boards and you'll find others. Also keep in mind that you can bind multiple psionic vestiges, gaining the bonus points from each. Or you could go Binder X/Warmind Y or something similar.

Arete also offers DR 5/- and +4 to any Save. The Triad offers a laundry list of minor abilities and proficiency with ALL weapons, which is very handy if you know what you're doing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526). Abysm has nothing extra but gets the uber energy missile and astral construct, plus animal affinity which can be used to boost any attribute.

The most important thing to remember is that a Binder is not locked into using any specific vestige. You can choose new ones every morning. These vestiges may not be the greatest, but they do add additional options which might be useful under certain circumstances, especially if you know you're only going to fight 1 combat that day.