Is there any way for me Dual wielding Longbows

[Matamane]

I want to try something out, but I want to know if anyone ever experimented with this before.

Is there any way to dual wield bows?

[Gullintanni]

Have four arms?

[Lord.Sorasen]

Rapid reload + quickdraw would allow you to wield two light crossbows.

Furthermore, Thri-kreen has four arms, my friend who has never played D&D somehow reminded me. That would probably be a way more awesome way to do it.

[Matamane]

how many feet do you wield a footbow with, 1 or 2, because that could work, I suppose?

A drider arcane archer was my original concept

[Axinian]

Arrow Demons can do it. There's probably a monster class for it in the hombrew section somewhere...

[yugi24862]

Footbows you hold with your feet and pull back the string with one hand, so you have one hand free.

[Zaranthan]

Girallon's Blessing, Spell Compendium: grow two arms, do silly things with them

[HalfDragonCube]

Like Ranger in 8-bit theatre?

Just multiclass from Ranger. Into Ranger. And possibly into Ranger again. Dual-wield your dual-wield!

Near the end it gets awesome where he begins quad-wielding his longbows.

[Devmaar]

Girallon's Blessing, Spell Compendium: grow two arms, do silly things with them

Don't forget Arms of Plenty :smallwink:

[HalfDragonCube]

Girallon's Blessing, Spell Compendium: grow two arms, do silly things with them

That pretty much sums up how most people play D&D.

[NNescio]

Raptoran with a Footbow and a normal Longbow?

[Eldariel]

Arrow Demons can do it. There's probably a monster class for it in the hombrew section somewhere...

By monster class, you meant Polymorph, right? :smallbiggrin:

[HalfDragonCube]

Raptoran with a Footbow and a normal Longbow?

Do footbows get strung with the teeth?

[Tvtyrant]

Go Thri-Kreen and then get rapid shot, the splitting effect on the bows, and something else that is silly. Now fire your endless barrage of arrows!

[Divide by Zero]

Like Ranger in 8-bit theatre?

Just multiclass from Ranger. Into Ranger. And possibly into Ranger again. Dual-wield your dual-wield!

Near the end it gets awesome where he begins quad-wielding his longbows.

Gestalt ranger/ranger, maybe?

Also, stop suggesting footbow, people. It still uses a hand.

[cfalcon]

Someone should link to the 8bt!

[Callista]

That pretty much sums up how most people play D&D.Hey, not all of us. Some of us make Drizzt clones and angst about being rebelliously good-aligned. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously, though, it's important to make sure your optimizing stays within the range that still lets the DM challenge you. Otherwise the game is just boring.

I'm not sure whether the four-arms option makes sense; the bows might get in each others' way. I think as a DM I would rule that you would need to get bows specifically crafted to be used by a four-armed creature.

Is there such a thing as an animated bow? If so, you might be able to use that plus a regular longbow.

[Divide by Zero]

I'm not sure whether the four-arms option makes sense; the bows might get in each others' way. I think as a DM I would rule that you would need to get bows specifically crafted to be used by a four-armed creature.

Arrow demons have an ability that allows them to attack with both at -2, but it's unclear whether that ability is necessary to do it at all or if it's just a replacement for TWF.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I'm not sure whether the four-arms option makes sense; the bows might get in each others' way. I think as a DM I would rule that you would need to get bows specifically crafted to be used by a four-armed creature.

No, you hold them diagonally, and have one bow for the upper arms, and one fir the lower arms.

But then the bow held with the lower arms have the problem of not being able to line up the shot.

[Zaranthan]

No, you hold them diagonally, and have one bow for the upper arms, and one fir the lower arms.

But then the bow held with the lower arms have the problem of not being able to line up the shot.

There are three ways to get extra arms: being an exotic race, casting a spell, or using a magic item. If it's racial, you've got instincts that make those arms work, just a logical extension of brachiation. Look at the target, and your arms point themselves at it. If it's a spell, it's fair to say the spell provides similar benefits to make the arms usable.

Most magic items I've seen give you arms that aren't very useful in combat, they're more like unseen servants attached to your midsection. Here is where you run into the expected issues of "you can't aim the arms' attacks" and "the extra hands can't find good handholds for you to climb with."

[Lapak]

No, you hold them diagonally, and have one bow for the upper arms, and one fir the lower arms.

But then the bow held with the lower arms have the problem of not being able to line up the shot.Long bows aren't just an arm-operated weapon, though; using one involves the muscles of the back and legs as well. You can't hold them diagonally and put those muscles into action properly; on top of that, if you're holding them cross-body diagonally you wouldn't have the space to pull back the bowstrings unless your arms are disproportionately long. So just tacking extra arms onto a standard humanoid chassis isn't enough to make dual-wielding longbows reasonable. Multi-wielding swords or spears or crossbows, sure; probably even shortbows make sense. But longbows just aren't wielded in a way where the arms can operate independently from the torso, and you've only got one torso under all of the effects discussed so far.

I mean, there's nothing in RAW stopping it, but it doesn't make much sense in terms of body mechanics as far as I can see.

[Eldariel]

Someone should link to the 8bt!

Is this really necessary? (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/27/episode-1087-exalted-feat/)

[Tvtyrant]

Wait, if you had 6 arms could you fire 6 auto-crossbows with the splitting quality in one round? Because if so... Awesome.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I mean, there's nothing in RAW stopping it, but it doesn't make much sense in terms of body mechanics as far as I can see.

Think of the catgirls! :smalleek::smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

I mean, there's nothing in RAW stopping it, but it doesn't make much sense in terms of body mechanics as far as I can see.

You draw them on the same side; see the Arrow Demon art in MM3 if I'm not coherent.

[Lapak]

You draw them on the same side; see the Arrow Demon art in MM3 if I'm not coherent.Note that the arm holding the 'outside' bow is sticking right through the inside of the 'inner' bow. He can't fire the inner bow; the string will snap right into his arm and foul the shot.

(Also, those look more like shortbows than longbows.) :smallsmile:

[Axinian]

By monster class, you meant Polymorph, right? :smallbiggrin:
Well if you want to do it the easy way then yea :smallannoyed:
But if you want to be a man, er, demon, polymorph isn't the way to go :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Note that the arm holding the 'outside' bow is sticking right through the inside of the 'inner' bow. He can't fire the inner bow; the string will snap right into his arm and foul the shot.

(Also, those look more like shortbows than longbows.) :smallsmile:

But the idea is there :smallwink:


Well if you want to do it the easy way then yea :smallannoyed:
But if you want to be a man, er, demon, polymorph isn't the way to go :smalltongue:

Poly-variants are the only way to have class while being an Arrow Demon :smalltongue:

[Axinian]

Poly-variants are the only way to have class while being an Arrow Demon :smalltongue:
Disagree, being the Arrow Demon class is the only way to have class being an Arrow Demon!

C'mon you totally had to see that coming! :smalltongue:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

DMM Cleric, Wild Elf with Otherworldly, Elf and Spell domains, use Greater Anyspell for DMM Persistent Draconic Polymorph: Arrow Demon. Dual-wield bows without penalty, any extra attacks you get with the main bow (Haste, Rapid Shot) gives you just as many extra attacks with the second bow.

[Eldariel]

DMM Cleric, Wild Elf with Otherworldly, Elf and Spell domains, use Greater Anyspell for DMM Persistent Draconic Polymorph: Arrow Demon. Dual-wield bows without penalty, any extra attacks you get with the main bow (Haste, Rapid Shot) gives you just as many extra attacks with the second bow.

I'd probably go with some other type of an Elf, since Draconic Polymorph overwrites the physical attributes leaving you with no bonuses but the Int-penalty. Arctic Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticElves) is +2 Dex, -2 Str, for example. Loses the automatic Search and Search-bonus but given you don't have ranks in that anyways, lol. And you get few minor perks in Cold Endurance and Survival-bonus.

[Jjeinn-tae]

Requires DM consent of course, but this is my idea:

1. Acquire 2 longbows.

2. Acquire metal bar approximately the width of your body.

3. Affix longbows to either end of metal bar, letting about an inch of the bar pass each bow.

4. File down the hanging inch till you have a notch to slot an arrow into (to make up for the fact that you do not have a finger at the end to stabilize the arrow)

5a. Should you have four arms, two of them hold the metal bar as far from your person as possible, the remaining two arms slot the arrow into it's notch on the metal bar, and draw back.

5b. Should you lack four arms, and do not wish to acquire said extra limbs, you need a second metal bar approximately the length of one arm. Affix this metal bar to the other in a perpendicular fashion, and gather a sophisticated harness to affix the other end to (so that you do not impale yourself on the draw). Use your two arms to draw back the bows now suspended hands-free in front of you.

6. Release arrows, relish in the fact that you probably have difficulty aiming either of them, much less both with this arrangement.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd probably go with some other type of an Elf, since Draconic Polymorph overwrites the physical attributes leaving you with no bonuses but the Int-penalty. Arctic Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#arcticElves) is +2 Dex, -2 Str, for example. Loses the automatic Search and Search-bonus but given you don't have ranks in that anyways, lol. And you get few minor perks in Cold Endurance and Survival-bonus.

All I was worried about was the Con penalty, since as per Alter Self your HP total remains the same when Polymorphed.

[Mystify]

The problem with crossobws is that even a quickloading light crossbow needs a hand to reload.

However, if you get someone to craft a turret such that you can **** the crossbows via foot pedal, attach it to a cart(which can also be enchanted with goodies) you can rapid shot dual wield crossbows. This is absurdly effective if you build the character right.

Edit: I think the language filter added ambiguitey to that sentence that should never have been there.

[Mystify]

Requires DM consent of course, but this is my idea:

1. Acquire 2 longbows.

2. Acquire metal bar approximation the width of your body.

3. Affix longbows to either end of metal bar, letting about an inch of the bar pass each bow.

4. File down the hanging inch till you have a notch to slot an arrow into (to make up for the fact that you do not have a finger at the end to stabilize the arrow)

5a. Should you have four arms, two of them hold the metal bar as far from your person as possible, the remaining two arms slot the arrow into it's notch on the metal bar, and draw back.

5b. Should you lack four arms, and do not wish to acquire said extra limbs, you need a second metal bar approximately the length of one arm. Affix this metal bar to the other in a perpendicular fashion, and gather a sophisticated harness to affix the other end to (so that you do not impale yourself on the draw). Use your two arms to draw back the bows now suspended hands-free in front of you.

6. Release arrows, relish in the fact that you probably have difficulty aiming either of them, much less both with this arrangement.

That sounds like a very roundabout way to get manyshot.

[Eldariel]

All I was worried about was the Con penalty, since as per Alter Self your HP total remains the same when Polymorphed.

Yeah. Str-penalty is definitely preferable to Int-penalty though, since it'll be whisked away with Poly leaving you with effectively a blank slate. Of course, Con penalty would be abhorrent and naturally the least favorable option after Wis and Cha.


The problem with crossobws is that even a quickloading light crossbow needs a hand to reload.

However, if you get someone to craft a turret such that you can **** the crossbows via foot pedal, attach it to a cart(which can also be enchanted with goodies) you can rapid shot dual wield crossbows. This is absurdly effective if you build the character right.

Quick-Loading property from Magic Item Compendium, Ghostly Reload spell from Races of the Dragon, there are ways to get around the reload issues with Crossbows.

[Mystify]

I should point out that even if dual-weilding bows, you can only rapid-shot on one of them:

Rapid shot:
You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon...

One attack per round, not per ranged weapon.

Still, extra ranged attacks are very nice since its much easier to get ranged full rounds, and there are less tradeoffs compared to a normal bow than two weapon fighting in melee compared to a two handed weapon.

[Eldariel]

I should point out that even if dual-weilding bows, you can only rapid-shot on one of them:

Rapid shot:
You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon...

One attack per round, not per ranged weapon.

Arrow Demon is one of the few ways to get duplicate attacks with the secondary weapon for things like Rapid Shot and Haste. Other than that, yeah, you're out of luck.

[Devmaar]

Would Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting work?

Edit: forgot it was [Epic]. Works if you allow Dragonwrought Kobolds to access [Epic] feats

[Jjeinn-tae]

That sounds like a very roundabout way to get manyshot.

I think it would be more akin to Rapidshot, you generally can't attack with two weapons as a standard action, can you?

[Kuulvheysoon]

If you can find a way to snag Naga Arms (or is it Arms of the Naga?), you should be able to do this. (Savage Species)

[Fitz10019]

Would Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting work?

Edit: forgot it was [Epic]. Works if you allow Dragonwrought Kobolds to access [Epic] feats

Or the pre-epic Superior Two-Weapon Fighting could come in handy to avoid escalating attack penalties. Prerequisite: two or more heads.:smallmad::smallamused:

[Mystify]

What is the rationale to allow dragonwrought kobolds epic feats? Epic feats themselves seem pretty clear that you can't take them before level 21 since you are granted normal feats, not epic feats, before then. Even if the feat itself has pre-requisites you qualify for, you don't have an epic feat to spend on it/

[Divide by Zero]

What is the rationale to allow dragonwrought kobolds epic feats? Epic feats themselves seem pretty clear that you can't take them before level 21 since you are granted normal feats, not epic feats, before then. Even if the feat itself has pre-requisites you qualify for, you don't have an epic feat to spend on it/

From the Draconomicon:

Dragons of at least old age also can choose these feats even if they have no class levels.

[Mystify]

Ah, I see. I've been reading enough about draconic races to see the entire ball of cheese used to justify applying that to dragonwrought kobolds.

[tyckspoon]

What is the rationale to allow dragonwrought kobolds epic feats? Epic feats themselves seem pretty clear that you can't take them before level 21 since you are granted normal feats, not epic feats, before then. Even if the feat itself has pre-requisites you qualify for, you don't have an epic feat to spend on it/

Dragons of Old age category or greater have a special dispensation to take Epic feats, even if they haven't hit 21+ HD yet. Dragonwrought Kobolds are of the Dragon type and have an age category chart, allowing them to be Old Dragons. Tada.

The other thing is that you're inventing a distinction between an 'epic feat' and a 'normal feat' selection; you don't level past 20 and suddenly start getting a distinct kind of new feat choice where before you had normal feat choices. It's the same feat selection you've been getting the last 20 levels- you just passed a new qualifying mark that lets you pick from the [Epic] category, the same way being psionic lets you pick [Psionic] feats. Dragons get an alternate way of qualifying for that [Epic] tag.

[Mystify]

Dragons of Old age category or greater have a special dispensation to take Epic feats, even if they haven't hit 21+ HD yet. Dragonwrought Kobolds are of the Dragon type and have an age category chart, allowing them to be Old Dragons. Tada.

The other thing is that you're inventing a distinction between an 'epic feat' and a 'normal feat' selection; you don't level past 20 and suddenly start getting a distinct kind of new feat choice where before you had normal feat choices. It's the same feat selection you've been getting the last 20 levels- you just passed a new qualifying mark that lets you pick from the [Epic] category, the same way being psionic lets you pick [Psionic] feats. Dragons get an alternate way of qualifying for that [Epic] tag.

Acquiring Epic Feats
Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

and applying the old dragon age category to a kobold is sketchy at best

[Eldariel]

and applying the old dragon age category to a kobold is sketchy at best

Draconomicon gives Old Dragons a special provision that qualifies them for Epic feats regardless of any other considerations. And Races of the Dragon gives Kobolds draconic age categories (Dragonwrought and all that); also, they don't lose physicals for aging, another boon in that regard. I mean, have some faith. People don't come up with stuff like this. If people say something like this, it's written somewhere.

[RaginChangeling]

Acquiring Epic Feats
Characters gain epic feats in the following ways:

At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter, the character may select an epic feat in place of a nonepic feat.

and applying the old dragon age category to a kobold is sketchy at best

Only if they're not Dragonwrought.

They can't access many good feats anyways, most Epic feats without Skill requirements are pretty terrible or require some insane stats that you need some tomes to reach. Perfect Two Weapon Fighting alone requires 25 Dex and is worse in every way than Power Attack,

[Divide by Zero]

and applying the old dragon age category to a kobold is sketchy at best

Dragonwrought kobolds get true dragon age categories by clear RAW. And when you get into that level of cheese, pretty much everything you do can be described as "sketchy" anyway.

[Mystify]

but their advancement is not tied to it, which is a crucial detail. The way around this is that you "advance in capabilities when you hatch", and use that to justify gaining abilities from age.

[Divide by Zero]

but their advancement is not tied to it, which is a crucial detail. The way around this is that you "advance in capabilities when you hatch", and use that to justify gaining abilities from age.

I'm not saying it makes any sense at all from a fluff perspective. But, by RAW, a dragonwrought kobold of at least old age qualifies for epic feats.

[Veyr]

To be clear: pretty much no one is suggesting that a DM should actually allow a Dragonwrought Kobold to take Epic feats (unless you'd be OK with anyone taking them; there are a lot of really weak Epic feats), it's just a quirk of RAW that can be useful/amusing to post and talk about.

[Mystify]

And I'm saying its not RAW, its 3/4 RAW and a dash of "I can twist english into knots to justify this, even though it doesn't relate to what the rule is talking about"

[RaginChangeling]

And I'm saying its not RAW, its 3/4 RAW and a dash of "I can twist english into knots to justify this, even though it doesn't relate to what the rule is talking about"

Its not though. Kobolds get Draconic age categories explicitly. Dragonwrought changes their type to Dragon. A True Dragon is defined as something with the Dragon Type and Age categories. Its pretty explicit RAW.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Its not though. Kobolds get Draconic age categories explicitly. Dragonwrought changes their type to Dragon. A True Dragon is defined as something with the Dragon Type and Age categories. Its pretty explicit RAW.

No, what you're saying is that since RAW doesn't state that it doesn't work like that, it works like that. You're saying that rules override common sense, not even fluff, just plain old common sense.

And no saying common sense doesn't apply because magic exists and in real life dragons would never be able to fly and blah blah blah.

[RaginChangeling]

No, what you're saying is that since RAW doesn't state that it doesn't work like that, it works like that. You're saying that rules override common sense, not even fluff, just plain old common sense.

And no saying common sense doesn't apply because magic exists and in real life dragons would never be able to fly and blah blah blah.

Common sense also says being stabbed with three feet of metal is pretty fatal.

A Barbarian can take several of those per day and keep ticking.

Common sense is also a rather meaningless metric. Who is it common too? Not everybody who plays D&D plays with the same assumptions or attitudes. Or experiences. Common sense has been used to justify really stupid things as well, like a belief that a cold can be treated by anti-biotics or that maggots spontaenously arise from rotten meat or that bad air is responsible for disease. Just because something is obvious or has entered the common consciousness doesn't make it right, and using common sense is an appeal to popularity that doesn't address the actual point.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Common sense also says being stabbed with three feet of metal is pretty fatal.

A Barbarian can take several of those per day and keep ticking.

Common sense also says that hit points represent narrow dodges and small cuts and bruises.

[Veyr]

Errr... no?

Rule 1: True Dragons that are at least Old may take Epic feats.

Rule 2: The Dragonwrought feat makes a Kobold into a True Dragon with draconic age categories, including Old.


Where are we assuming that the rules don't say I can't, so I can? This really could not be any more clear-cut.

It's a dumb rule. You shouldn't allow it. You should houserule it away. But it is absolutely RAW.


Common sense also says that hit points represent narrow dodges and small cuts and bruises.
HP doesn't work out even remotely that nicely.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'm not sure whether the four-arms option makes sense; the bows might get in each others' way. I think as a DM I would rule that you would need to get bows specifically crafted to be used by a four-armed creature.

A Soulbow only needs one free hand to fire their mind arrow and it doesn't have a bowstring, so anything with three or more hands could wield a regular longbow in two and their mind arrow in a third.

Unfortunately, there's no language in mind arrow that would allow you to MWF with it alone.

[Mystify]

Multiclass soulbow with souldbow!

wait, we already did that joke. (though it makes more sense in this case)

[Worira]

Common sense also says that hit points represent narrow dodges and small cuts and bruises.

And this is why a high level barbarian can leap out of an airplane cruising at 30,000 feet, then get up and walk away, I take it?

[Mystify]

Hitpoints represnt, pure, manly GRIT!

ok, hitpoints don't really make any sense. One explanation I heard is that it represents the healing capacity you have. If you get your throat slit, but have enough hp, you heal it and are fine. If you run out of hp, you can't heal it and you havea slit in your throat. This kinda contradicts one of the manifestations of DR(the wound healing immediately), but it is the phenomena that would most closely match a hit point system. Thats really not an explanation I like. I prefer to envision a guy with a few sword slashes in him, but he keeps going BECAUSE HES THAT TOUGH!

Hitpoints are kinda integral to how D&D functions as a system. They are pretty much essential for any heroic system. I've played some good non-heroic systems with body part damage, but when any stray hit can kill you, it gets in the way of slaying dragons and dueling wizards.

[Lapak]

And this is why a high level barbarian can leap out of an airplane cruising at 30,000 feet, then get up and walk away, I take it?It does. People have survived falls from above 30,000 feet and survived basically unharmed from 11,000 feet, both without a parachute, in real life, so it's possible if you're lucky enough. High hit points represent (according to the books) skill and experience and luck as well as meat-damage; a 15th level barbarian just has more than their fair share of all of the above.

[Veyr]

Hitpoints represnt, pure, manly GRIT!

ok, hitpoints don't really make any sense. One explanation I heard is that it represents the healing capacity you have. If you get your throat slit, but have enough hp, you heal it and are fine. If you run out of hp, you can't heal it and you havea slit in your throat. This kinda contradicts one of the manifestations of DR(the wound healing immediately), but it is the phenomena that would most closely match a hit point system. Thats really not an explanation I like. I prefer to envision a guy with a few sword slashes in him, but he keeps going BECAUSE HES THAT TOUGH!

Hitpoints are kinda integral to how D&D functions as a system. They are pretty much essential for any heroic system. I've played some good non-heroic systems with body part damage, but when any stray hit can kill you, it gets in the way of slaying dragons and dueling wizards.
Absolutely true — but it makes it really hard to argue "common sense" when it comes to RAW. Occasionally, even RAMS or RAMF (Rules As Most Fun?) fail completely to even basic applications of common sense, but that's OK because they're for the good of the game and for fun.

A Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 1 with Epic Spellcasting (which it couldn't actually get because of the 9th level spells and Spellcraft 24 ranks requirement, but whatever) would not be good for the game. But that doesn't mean that the rules couldn't accidentally allow something like that. Just recognize it, laugh, houserule it, and move on.

[Zaranthan]

Absolutely true — but it makes it really hard to argue "common sense" when it comes to RAW. Occasionally, even RAMS or RAMF (Rules As Most Fun?) fail completely to even basic applications of common sense, but that's OK because they're for the good of the game and for fun.

A Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer 1 with Epic Spellcasting (which it couldn't actually get because of the 9th level spells and Spellcraft 24 ranks requirement, but whatever) would not be good for the game. But that doesn't mean that the rules couldn't accidentally allow something like that. Just recognize it, laugh, houserule it, and move on.

The biggest problem with any argument including the phrase "common sense" is, aside from the fact that it's about as common as hen's teeth these days, the arguer is almost always referring to THEIR OWN common sense, based in the real world. You can't apply wisdom gained in a world where people can't shoot lightning bolts from their fingertips to a world where you can. A low-level kobold with Epic Speed running 40 MPH unassisted doesn't make sense in OUR world, but it certainly does in a world where people can reshape reality through sheer willpower.

[Mystify]

Oh, I just remebered a trick.

1. be a dragonblood creature
2. take the dragon tail feat at level 1
3. get two weapon fighting
4. take the prehensile tail feat from savage species

You now have a tail that you can use as a third hand. It lets you use multiweapon fighting. So if you are using a soulbow with one hand, you can use your tail to help with the bow. Or what may be cooler, use a bow with your hands, and fire a soulbow with your tail. 2 feats to get an extra hand is useful. (its two, since if you want an extra hand you probably will take two weapon fighting anyways).

You could also use it to reload your quickloading crossbows you are dual weilding, or act as a third hand on a weapon to get 2x str damage.

Edit: taking the zen archery feat consolidates all of your accuracy onto wisdom, and you get wisdom damage from the soulbow. This makes your dex less important(beyond meeting the two weapon fighting requirements), though like any archer you will want str for the bow damage.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

It does. People have survived falls from above 30,000 feet and survived basically unharmed from 11,000 feet, both without a parachute, in real life, so it's possible if you're lucky enough. High hit points represent (according to the books) skill and experience and luck as well as meat-damage; a 15th level barbarian just has more than their fair share of all of the above.

If you have more than 11 hit points, it's possible to survive a fall from any distance. In real life, you're statistically more likely to survive a fall from 30,000 feet than you are 1,000 feet.

[Worira]

It does. People have survived falls from above 30,000 feet and survived basically unharmed from 11,000 feet, both without a parachute, in real life, so it's possible if you're lucky enough. High hit points represent (according to the books) skill and experience and luck as well as meat-damage; a 15th level barbarian just has more than their fair share of all of the above.

One person has ever survived freefall from 30,000 feet. She fell inside a plane, and was rescued by a medic shortly afterwards. She broke her skull, three vertebrae, both legs, and was comatose and paralyzed. Of the four other survivors, one broke multiple bones and had severe lacerations and internal organ damage, and another one broke his back and pelvis despite landing on snow. Another two did actually have fairly minor injuries, with one breaking her collarbone, gashing her arm open, and swelling an eye shut, and the other spraining his leg after falling into thick snow in a pine forest.


A 20th level barbarian can jump naked out of a 747 at cruising altitude onto granite, get up, dust himself off, do it all over again, then go about his day.

[Lapak]

One person has ever survived freefall from 30,000 feet. She fell inside a plane, and was rescued by a medic shortly afterwards. She broke her skull, three vertebrae, both legs, and was comatose and paralyzed. Of the four other survivors, one broke multiple bones and had severe lacerations and internal organ damage, and another one broke his back and pelvis despite landing on snow. Another two did actually have fairly minor injuries, with one breaking her collarbone, gashing her arm open, and swelling an eye shut, and the other spraining his leg after falling into thick snow in a pine forest.


A 20th level barbarian can jump naked out of a 747 at cruising altitude onto granite, get up, dust himself off, do it all over again, then go about his day.On the one hand, I agree with the basic point of your argument, I honestly do.

On the other hand, the 20th level barbarian is a superheroic figure living in a fantasy world. Which is why I brought the rare survivors up; it's possible to survive in the real world, so stretching that to LIKELY in a fantasy world is not so great a stretch.