League of Legends XIV: We're So Broken That We're OP!

[Silverraptor]

League of Legends XIV:
We're So Broken That We're OP!

(...And so is most of our equipment at the moment.):smalltongue:



You can sign up for League of Legends here (http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4db681707edf7722267627). Its free.

If your name is not on the list, send me a PM with your forum name, in game name and server, or post it in this thread in bold. If you do not know which server you are on, it is most likely the region you're in.

NA Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Adumbration | Benefice
aethernox | aethernox
Alemil | Alemil
Alter | AlterForm
Arbitrarity | Arbitrarity
assassin89 | nineballcirno
AtwasAwamps | AtwasAwamps
Baron Corm | Baron Corm
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Bliss Authority | Companion N00b
Caradryan | Ying Quliang
Copacetic | Azbu
CrnvorousMeece | CarnivorousMeece
Croverus | Croverus
Cute_Riolu | Cute Riolu
Dallas-Dakota | MustacheMan
Darth Mario | Darth Mario
Daverin | Daverin
Dentrag2 | Callinectes
Dichotomy | Kaellin
Djinn in Tonic | The Djinn
Dogmantra | Dogmantra
douglas | DouglasM
Dragonus45 | Dragonus45
Drager0 | Drager0
Dragor | Supernaturalist
Draken | Draken Frosthand
DrakeRaids | DrakeRaids057
Dralnu | TomerIsHot
Duos | DapperGuy
Eldariel | Elealar
efdf | efdf
Elagune | Chopstyx
EndlessWrath | Andurin
Errandir | Ramses III
EternalMelon | EternalMelon
faith | Ferrovax101
Faulty | FaultyClockwork
Fawkes | Count Fawkes
FeverFox | Alcopop
Flechair | Master Zealot
Floogleboogle | Le Shirrif
Folytopo | Folytopo
Frankelshtein | McFinkelstein
glemis | glemis
Gourtox | Gourtox
Gruffard | Gruffard
Hatevah | Hatevah
Incomp | Incomp
Istari | IstariK
Jamin | CapZich
Joran | Jorana
KaizoMK | KaizoMK
Kara Kuro | RaptorKitty
Kettle | Kettle747
king.com | kingcom
Kinslayer | HaunterReqiuem
kmchii | kmchii
Kopaka | CelesHurricane
Kwazey | Kwazey
LegoShrimp | LegoShrimp
lvl 1 sharnian | StarryEagle
Lyxie | Lyxie
Makensha | Jarbis
MammonAzrael | MammonAzrael
Manticoran | Manticoran
MasatoHyuga | MasatoHyuga
Master_Rahl22 | Goltoth
master256 | QWERTYSTOP
Math_Mage | Mathmage
Malmagor Andrigal | Madmal
Maxios | Maxios20
Meatshield#236 | Meatshield236
Mike_the_Mystic | Kraemer
Milskidasith | Milskidasith
Mindfreak586 | Mindfreak586
Moklok | KokoBWare
Mtg_player_zach | MtgPlayerZach
Mushroom Ninja | Mushroom Ninja
Nanoblack | IwearSILLYhats
Necroticplague | Yamidamian
NeoVid | NeoVid
Octopus Jack | Thalric
Pie Guy | Qwazes
pilvento | Kandrass
PhoeKun | PhoeKun
Poison Fish | Baron Von Flib
Raistlin1040 | Sanevale
Rama | Nargus
Raroy | setokaibasmt
RationalGoblin | AtillathePun
Raveypoos | Rhaviewoos
revolver kobold | A Magic Kobold
Serpentine | Lady Serpentine
Shades of Gray | PierreAbelard
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker65
SidCoolios | Irazel
Silverraptor | Silverraptor
Sircarp | Sircarp
Sirroelivan | Sirroelivan
SirSigfried | LibertarianSDR
Slash_712 | Catfud
St. Viers | St.Viers
Starfols | Starfols
SweetRein | SweetRein
TalonDemonKing | TalonDemonKing
TechnOkami | Techn0kami
Temotei | Temotei221
Terazul | Allegretto
term1nally s1ck | silverdevilboy
Thanatos 51-50 | Thanatos Erebus
TheGlowingRogue | I Glow In Dark
Thethan | Thethan
The Valiant Turtle | Valiant Turtle
Thrantar | Thrantar
Thrawn183 | Thrawnyboy
toasty | toastymow
Tono | Tono Chou
Treayn | Treayn
Vauron | Vauron
Volatar | The Volatar
wandiya | wandiya
Winthur | Seyruun
Zabel_Zarock | Jon Talbain
Zeful | Zeful
ZeroNumerous | ZeroNumerous
Zeteni | Zeteni
0tt3r | 0tt3r[/table]

EU Server
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
Abakus | Terpfen
Acromos | Crannoch
Adumbration | Adumbration
Alemil | Alemil
Brother Oni | MarineHK4861
Dada | Scrattlebeard
Darwin | DarwinBeGood
Eldariel | Elealar
Endoperez | Endoperez
Even Human | SlyGuyMcFly
Heliomance | Sidhe de Grian
Kurrel | GrinningOni
lord_khaine | Lord_khaine
Morph Bark | Morpheus Bob
Narazil | Narazil
Nargan | Naryuk
Narkis | Narkis
Penthar | Malderon
Raviepoos | Skittles Unicorn
Rockbird | Rockbird
Shadowleaf | AncientPharma
shadowwalker64 | shadowwalker64
Voidhawk | Sidhe ne Awk
Volatar | VolatarUK
Winterwind | DreamingHeart
Zefir | Einerwie
Ziren | Zirenoid[/table]


??
{table=head]Forum Name|Game Name
olelia | ??[/table]

Smurf Accounts
{table=head]Smurf Owner|Game Name
Silverraptor | GITPSilverraptor
Faulty | MagnetsConfuseMe
ZombyWoof | DiscoGirl
Volatar | Karje
Dogmantra | TheManRatGod
[/table]


MUMBLE
Download here! (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/)
Our main means of communication is a mumble server, playing host to a variety of games, including LoL. Hanging about is a good way to find a game, and if you don't fancy playing something there's always a good chance of a friendly chat. Contact Djinn if you have a question or want to donate money to keep the server running. List of admins available on request.
Address: fish.mumbleboxes.com
Port: 36003

There are also some backup voice servers available for if the main server goes down or you suddenly become allergic to the main one:
Mumble:
Address: mumble.ukgame.com
Port: 59219

Mumble:
Address: 195.90.99.195
Port: 52412


STREAMS

Silverraptor (http://www.livestream.com/silverrapter?t=527242)
Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie)

GUIDES

Into the Wild - Guide to Being a Better Jungler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10867111#post10867111) by Mtg_player_zach
Laser Bear Udyr (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9657101&postcount=39), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Rammus: Can't touch this. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=258919) by Math_Mage
Seizing the fourth digit: Playing your way out of elo hell. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=341821) by Math_Mage
Twitch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10267058&postcount=1448), by Djinn_In_Tonic
Faulty and Raistlin's Quick Build Database: Notes and Stuff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10942497&postcount=1004) by Faulty and Raistlin
Jungle Akali (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10498621&postcount=1358) by Djinn
How to play everyone's favourite Lightning Squirrel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154) by Dogmantra
Lee Sin (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=636475) by Dralnu

CLASSY VIDEOS FOR CLASSY PEOPLE

Jungle Janna! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC6wm9iaNmM)
How to Win Every Game in League of Legends (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrsTE1vpoXM)
Panic at the Nexus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7WlCbaLI3I)
Sunfire Cape Sunday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjfX6crjrg)
Season One Trailer with Commentary (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/season-one-trailer-commentary)
D-Town (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHp4VJ47v0)
Insanity Mix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGKN1Adzckk&feature=related)
(Truly, Truly) Outrageous (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC7S05vI-BU&feature=related)
I'm just a noob (Ryze Ryze Ryze again) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpr1T-pgaZY&feature=related)
e.o.n Shen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHs_cGUPQ3M&feature=related)
Vendrim-Ionia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry3E2UQMe3k&hd=1)
Pwn ur FACE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9VSDt0EN4)
Your -Epic- Dreamhack comes true! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKCs1CyBFLg)

COMICS

One by our own Elagune (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=48169)
Learn Your Alphabet (http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6264/g28376.png) by Dogmantra and Pierreabelard

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME: PREVIOUS THREADS

League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196765)
League of Legends XII: It's Worth It Because I Said So In The Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194886)
League of Legends XI: It's Hard to Post Like This in Heels (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192695)
League of Legends X: Armored Armadillo Delivers Ambiguous Affirmative (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10646164#post10646164)
League of Legends IX: New Thread Available! Only 6300 IP! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188076)
League of Legends VIII: Gali-Os: They're idolicious! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185516)
League of Legends 7: Truly, Truly Outrageous! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182486)
League of Legends 6: Jannaaaaaaaaaa! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178334)
League of Legends 5: Tall Grass Used Garen! DEMACIAAA! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173805)
League of Legends 4:CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169616)
League of Legends 3: You only need to click once (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164008s)
League of Legends Goes Where It Pleases 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158135)
League Of Legends: We post where we please. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139094)

[Silverraptor]

The equipment joke is that some of us are currently experiencing mic trouble, and exploding computers.

[Volatar]

Silverraptor, would you remove the Teamspeak server from the voice server list?

Also, add Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie) to the Stream list.

[Silverraptor]

Silverraptor, would you remove the Teamspeak server from the voice server list?

Also, add Lyxie (http://www.own3d.tv/lyxie) to the Stream list.

Yes, sir!:smallcool:

[Daverin]

Just played a couple of randoms as Taric; I keep forgetting how awesome he is, even though I consider myself to be a strong proponent of his awesomeness. Even in random, he is so helpful; plus, the fact he is one of the harder champs to kill is just icing on the cake. :smallamused:

[Istari]

Destroying as Malz again. Think I might have to pick him up next considering he is such a good pubstomper. Tried the new Spellblade on him and it worked well since I was midding against Lux.

[Volatar]

Yes, sir!:smallcool:

Thank you good sir :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

For the interested, SK vs. Fnatic (http://www.own3d.tv/live/2721/OceloteWorld) for some random tournament starting up right now.

Bans: Brand [Fnatic] / Alistar Malz [SK] / Amumu Nunu [Fnatic] / Nidalee [SK]

Picks:
SK: Gragas / Ashe Karthus / Trundle Soraka
Fnatic: Janna Rammus / Rumble (!!) Kassadin / Miss Fortune

[TechnOkami]

The list... oh gods the list!! D:

Buying
-Malzahar
-Nidalee
-Irelia
-Kog'Maw
-Brand

Trying
-Janna
-Vayne
-Maokai (i've tried him before, didn't like him, giving him a second chance)
-Trundle
-Pantheon

[Makensha]

Bought all the runes I want. So! First response determines my next purchase.

Either
Brand: Had a guy tell me if I liked old Ryze I'd like him.
Or
Karma: She just looks fun and versatile.

[Brother Oni]

Amusing image for the day.


http://i53.tinypic.com/2j3he2x.jpg

I wish this had gone to champion selection. I would have loved to have seen the other team's faces. :smallbiggrin:


Bought all the runes I want. So! First response determines my next purchase.

Either
Brand: Had a guy tell me if I liked old Ryze I'd like him.
Or
Karma: She just looks fun and versatile.

Brand. I find the combo king is more fun, but you need to win quickly as after about 30 minutes he gets significantly worse as the opposing team gets more itemised.

Karma is cheaper but needs better co-ordination and resource management. Besides she doesn't kill things with fire.

[Math_Mage]

For the interested, SK vs. Fnatic (http://www.own3d.tv/live/2721/OceloteWorld) for some random tournament starting up right now.

Bans: Brand [Fnatic] / Alistar Malz [SK] / Amumu Nunu [Fnatic] / Nidalee [SK]

Picks:
SK: Gragas / Ashe Karthus / Trundle Soraka
Fnatic: Janna Rammus / Rumble (!!) Kassadin / Miss Fortune

Nid banned? :smallconfused: Is Shushei or someone a really good Nid?


Bought all the runes I want. So! First response determines my next purchase.

Either
Brand: Had a guy tell me if I liked old Ryze I'd like him.
Or
Karma: She just looks fun and versatile.

Kaaaaaaaarma. Bloody good fun to play.

[TechnOkami]

Kaaaaaaaarma. Bloody good fun to play.

Why? I'm curious.

[Eldariel]

Nid banned? :smallconfused: Is Shushei or someone a really good Nid?

Shushei plays a good Nid, yes. In fact, both aAa and Fnatic use Nid quite a bit.

[Math_Mage]

Why? I'm curious.

"You attack me? BWAH! Shield-nuke! Nuke-heal! Can't touch this!"

"You attack my ally? BWAH! Super speed! Nuke in the face! Invinsibull carry!"

Her edge-of-the-teamfight playstyle keeps you on the edge of your seat. I really enjoy that. There are tons of critical decision points--who needs the shield, who you should attach Spirit Bond to, which abilities to use Mantra on, which of her various item setups to go with.

I've seen Brand played, and he looks like fun too, but it honestly seems like the same kind of fun you could get from playing Annie.

[Dogmantra]

Her edge-of-the-teamfight playstyle keeps you on the edge of your seat. I really enjoy that.

Yeah, she's by far the most fun support in my eyes. You fight by circling the teamfight and it's a pretty unique playstyle.

Oh, and did I mention you're impossible to kill and viable built in multiple ways?

[Alcopop]

Still not on the list, third try. Summoner Name: Alcopop on the US Server :D)

Nid is amazing,

But I hear a lot of people call her UP, which doesn't make sense to me. She has amazing versatility! and is really good at like 2-3 rolls at once. 1k damage harass, 1k damage heals, map awareness, chasing - farming. And she is really great at that phase before team fights where people are harassing but no one has initiated as she can minimize the harass you have coming while puttiing the hurt out on the other team. And this makes a big difference when the team fight actually rocks around.

[Eldariel]

Nid is amazing,

But I hear a lot of people call her UP, which doesn't make sense to me. She has amazing versatility! and is really good at like 2-3 rolls at once. 1k damage harass, 1k damage heals, map awareness, chasing - farming. And she is really great at that phase before team fights where people are harassing but no one has initiated as she can minimize the harass you have coming while puttiing the hurt out on the other team. And this makes a big difference when the team fight actually rocks around.

She was considered underpowered in the AoE metagame due to her low impact. Now that we have a more varied meta, Nidalee-using teams can definitely be built and she can be used exceedingly efficiently.

[Makensha]

Elementz =* Tier 1: Twisted Fate, Ashe, Karthus, Corki, Mal’zahar, Shen, Janna, Taric, Amumu, Nunu, Swain, Annie.

Oh hey TF, how you... wait, wut? TF the NUMBER ONE PICK? Remember when he wasn't any different but was tier 4? It really is amusing to see how perspective changes.

[toasty]

2 things happened to make TF such a good hero:

One: they nerfed AoE meta. If you look at team comps it seems the only real hero that survived AoE meta is Amumu, and they nerfed his AoE (but buffed his jungle). Vlad, MF and Galio all got nerfed, Galio is now never really played (though he's probably fine. I'd just rather have other heroes)

Two: Split pushing became popular. Singed, Teemo and TF are all popular for split pushing.

Edit: NESL is 1 hour late. I really think I should just go solo queue...

[king.com]

Brand was a bit of fun to play but more in the "ignite + passive your going to die" kind of way while playing as annie I've always felt its a "flash, damage explosion, skip calmly away" deal.

Heres my big question, Ive played a bunch of games now but I don't feel like im getting any better, sure playing with teams of level 30s when im sitting at 16 probably is going to go badly for me but I don't seem to be going anywhere. If my team loses im really not able to identify why, and whether I win or lose seems entirely dependent on the first couple of kills in the lane. I always seem to be behind in gold and items (though im only usually a kill or two behind) though its gotten a lot better playing as annie and im not needing to worry too much about creep kills.

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?

[Daverin]

I definitely know the feeling; I'm usually the 5th wheel whenever playing with some of the members of the board. I think its a matter of judgment; we can build well, understand how abilities work, cooperate well and all of that. But somewhere along the lines there is just knowing how to best land an ability, where to position yourself, and when to break from normal procedure that I can only imagine comes with experience, and nothing can substitute that. At least I'm hoping so...

Also, as far as the creep farming goes, I share that problem too. I sometimes just consider it bad luck, as I rarely am able to get to a wave or somesuch before someone else; that, and I tend to play champs that care less about items (I almost never carry), so I don't get too assertive in trying to farm... Maybe you are doing the same, and just need to be willing to move in to farm. That, and the whole judgment thing seems to play into knowing when and where to farm.

[toasty]

Keep playing. At level 16 its really just a matter of learning all the champions and deciding what your playstyle. Do you have one? Support? Tank? Carry? Are you GOOD at that role (my favorite hero to play is Ashe (Carry), my best is either Shen or Amumu (Tank)). If you're laning what is your CS? Are you getting all the creeps in a lane? Are you winning against weak laners and surviving against strong ones? If you're jungling do you know the different routes and timers (I admit, the only one I know is baron and dragon. I know the basics of the different routes and have a vague awareness of their timers). Do you understand team comp (its not just about having a tank, a carry, a support, etc. Its about having a proper amount of Utility and Damage. I've played games where that happens, we have all the roles filled, but no real damage besides maybe guy. You need more than that.

[9mm]

lol Heal/Poke takes the first game of ESL match of the night. Nice to see Trist rocking the house again.

(I personally think Trist might be the 3rd best carry in the game, have no idea why I don't see her more often)

[toasty]

lol Heal/Poke takes the first game of ESL match of the night. Nice to see Trist rocking the house again.

(I personally think Trist might be the 3rd best carry in the game, have no idea why I don't see her more often)

Because apparently Caitlyn is the 3rd best carry. Go figure. I haven't played Trist or see a decent trist in a really long time.

Of course, the carry problem is that there are 2 teams and 2 carries and people don't like banning carries. So there is a tendency to get Ashe on one team and Corki on the other.

But yeah, its strange seeing Heal Poke again. Of course, it seems that the only metas that exsist really are some form of heal/poke (split pushing is part of this, imo) and then AoE comps.

[Eldariel]

Because apparently Caitlyn is the 3rd best carry. Go figure. I haven't played Trist or see a decent trist in a really long time.

Of course, the carry problem is that there are 2 teams and 2 carries and people don't like banning carries. So there is a tendency to get Ashe on one team and Corki on the other.

But yeah, its strange seeing Heal Poke again. Of course, it seems that the only metas that exsist really are some form of heal/poke (split pushing is part of this, imo) and then AoE comps.

Worthwhile to note that MF and Trist see more play on EU due to having the anti-healing abilities (remember, Soraka is popular on EU teams). Ashe & MF are both probably more played than Corki on EU teams, with Trist, Caitlyn and Corki in the 3rd, 4th and 5th slots.

[toasty]

Worthwhile to note that MF and Trist see more play on EU due to having the anti-healing abilities (remember, Soraka is popular on EU teams). Ashe & MF are both probably more played than Corki on EU teams, with Trist, Caitlyn and Corki in the 3rd, 4th and 5th slots.

Well I'd say that MF is better than Tristana. At least, at first glance.

[Eldariel]

Well I'd say that MF is better than Tristana. At least, at first glance.

They're...different. "Better" may be the wrong word. Tris is much more "up-in-your-face" type (with Rocket Jump and Explosive Shot) while MF is a max range kiter-type. So which is better depends on how heavy CC you have, and how safe it is to get near the enemy team.

[Neftren]

So, it turns out I'm at 199 Wins. Who wants to help me on the 200th Win?

[Spartacus]

Tristana totally melts single targets, but that is all she does. Well, apart from the healing-reduction. With a team in front of her, she can build entirely offense and be totally fine, with her massive range, her knockback and her jump. Then just pop Q and enjoy what is likely the single best steroid in the game.

EDIT: It appears Eldariel and I disagree on how to play Tristana :P

[toasty]

They're...different. "Better" may be the wrong word. Tris is much more "up-in-your-face" type (with Rocket Jump and Explosive Shot) while MF is a max range kiter-type. So which is better depends on how heavy CC you have, and how safe it is to get near the enemy team.

And as someone who loves Ashe and is scared of getting up close with someone squishy I understand why I like MF...

[9mm]

Because apparently Caitlyn is the 3rd best carry. Go figure. I haven't played Trist or see a decent trist in a really long time.


Hmm I can see that, even though I've had a hard time getting used to Caitlyn after the initial changes to her right after release. She just falls off too quickly I find.

[Eldariel]

Tristana totally melts single targets, but that is all she does. Well, apart from the healing-reduction. With a team in front of her, she can build entirely offense and be totally fine, with her massive range, her knockback and her jump. Then just pop Q and enjoy what is likely the single best steroid in the game.

EDIT: It appears Eldariel and I disagree on how to play Tristana :P

It's not that she can't do that, of course in teamfight you keep your distance. Just, in lane for example, you generally wanna jump in the face and smack away while MF prefers to keep her distance and land Double Ups and Make It Rains. And Explosive Shot range is just short compared to Impure Shots so to Heal Debuff people, Tris needs to get up to the face.

[Spartacus]

Oh, in lane I totally agree. You don't have your passive high enough anyway.

So, Riot's tournaments are total crap. Absolutely and totally. Games are decided by server instability. Someone gets a free kill on the announcer because the Observer spell was broken. Teams engage at disadvantages of ping constantly. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Of course, when a new SC2 patch comes out right before GSL finals or something, that's also total BS, but at least they don't suddenly take away 20% of someones units, totally outside of the players control.

[Moonshadow]

So, I'm looking at getting Morde and Leblanc.

Morde was fun when I tried him. Something about being able to go "BWARGGG I HAS A MACE" and being able to get a slave for 30 seconds really appeals to me. He's tanky and not reliant on mana, and I like that in my champs.

Leblanc... I haven't tried her yet, but from what I've heard, she is an awesome champ basher, but a pretty bad laner. But her abilities and CC give me the impression that I would have a fun time playing as her as well.

I just can't decide who to get first :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

So, I'm looking at getting Morde and Leblanc.

Morde was fun when I tried him. Something about being able to go "BWARGGG I HAS A MACE" and being able to get a slave for 30 seconds really appeals to me. He's tanky and not reliant on mana, and I like that in my champs.

Leblanc... I haven't tried her yet, but from what I've heard, she is an awesome champ basher, but a pretty bad laner. But her abilities and CC give me the impression that I would have a fun time playing as her as well.

I just can't decide who to get first :smalltongue:

LeBlanc is a fine laner. She just doesn't scale well if she doesn't snowball so you gotta get some kills to make her relevant later on. She has sick burst early game.

[Mtg_player_zach]

So, I'm looking at getting Morde and Leblanc.

Morde was fun when I tried him. Something about being able to go "BWARGGG I HAS A MACE" and being able to get a slave for 30 seconds really appeals to me. He's tanky and not reliant on mana, and I like that in my champs.

Leblanc... I haven't tried her yet, but from what I've heard, she is an awesome champ basher, but a pretty bad laner. But her abilities and CC give me the impression that I would have a fun time playing as her as well.

I just can't decide who to get first :smalltongue:


I prefer to call leblanc bursty mcburstpants.

[Alcopop]

So, I'm looking at getting Morde and Leblanc.

Morde was fun when I tried him. Something about being able to go "BWARGGG I HAS A MACE" and being able to get a slave for 30 seconds really appeals to me. He's tanky and not reliant on mana, and I like that in my champs.

Leblanc... I haven't tried her yet, but from what I've heard, she is an awesome champ basher, but a pretty bad laner. But her abilities and CC give me the impression that I would have a fun time playing as her as well.

I just can't decide who to get first :smalltongue:

Morde is a Pubstomper, pure and simple. (Spellvamp Morde that is) And he is a great pusher when he has a slave up. (you slave the enemies AD carry and you're almost assured a tower kill)

Leblanc is fantastic but probably the one of hardest champions to learn to play. You really need to know how much damage your going to do before you do it. (and if you don't kill early game you wont kill much at all) that said when someone knows how to play here she can single target splodey like it's nobodies business.

[Spartacus]

Leblanc has huge base values, and poor ratios. Lots of burst, similar to Annie, but with a snare instead of stun. Seems to do well early game, and depends on getting a number of early kills to scale into the mid/late game.

[Daverin]

So, I just noticed the new Journal of Justice. Que article about Malz and Kass and 'GASP'... Karthus! I can't believe it. One of my silly WMGs was that Karthus actually joined to help against some unknown threat he has foreseen, which sure enough, matches up with the idea of the Void invading, which was my conclusion to the WMG. Clearly, Riot has invaded my thoughts...

[Maeglin_Dubh]

AP Tristana? Is it a thing?

Could it be a thing?

[Draken]

I prefer to call leblanc bursty mcburstpants.

That name doesn't fit her at all.

I mean, pants? really? What pants? (http://lol.zone.gamebase.com.tw/zone/lol/skin_view/leblanc#leblanc)

[Eldariel]

AP Tristana? Is it a thing?

Could it be a thing?

Sorta. Get fed enough and you can chain jump on people and they all die. Before then though...

[Volatar]

AP Tristana? Is it a thing?

Could it be a thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBZP2UdYl9s

[Spartacus]

That teamkill was glorious.

[Raistlin1040]

Singed gets so damn beefy at end game. I love it.

[9mm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBZP2UdYl9s

lol, that was very amusing.

yeah AP trist is wierd, see she does have high ratios but not, omg high. That said there's a reason she's one of the best carries for Bravery!

[Math_Mage]

AP Tristana? Is it a thing?

Could it be a thing?

Her cooldowns are really high for a burst mage. That said, her ratios are really good for a burst mage.

[Master_Rahl22]

So, I'm looking at getting Morde and Leblanc.

Morde was fun when I tried him. Something about being able to go "BWARGGG I HAS A MACE" and being able to get a slave for 30 seconds really appeals to me. He's tanky and not reliant on mana, and I like that in my champs.

Leblanc... I haven't tried her yet, but from what I've heard, she is an awesome champ basher, but a pretty bad laner. But her abilities and CC give me the impression that I would have a fun time playing as her as well.

I just can't decide who to get first :smalltongue:

Mord is a boss on 3v3. Tanky, throw in Rylais/Randuins/Gunblade for some slowing, and when you land your ult 3v3 becomes 4v2. I wrote a guide for Mord that's linked in the first post.

[Moonshadow]

Okay, I found a tank that I'm happy playing >>

Cho'Gath.

I love this guy. His quotes, his abilities, everything. Builds like a tank, hits like a truck, inbuilt Smite and is chock full of CC goodness.

I love being able to go up to the enemy jungler at level 6 and get a free buff because of Feast.

Cho <3

[Spartacus]

lol, that was very amusing.

yeah AP trist is wierd, see she does have high ratios but not, omg high. That said there's a reason she's one of the best carries for Bravery!

Jax in Bravery mode, if he can get going, becomes an absolute beast. Good scaling from both, and so much HP.

[Inhuman Bot]

So, I just noticed the new Journal of Justice

the what

In all seriousness, the Journal of Justice is interesting. League of Legends is such a spectacular failure when it comes to world building that it provides an interesting example. What's to blame for it? Amateurish writing?

Well yes. But poor writing can still make for good stories in their own way. For example, everything Blizzard does, though your mileage may vary.

It goes deeper then that. The main viewpoint of the LoL-verse is a current newspaper esque writing, which doesn't provide any backstory. The league judgements are much the same. For example, who cares what so and so wore to a dance, or which fictional character is boning whom. Certainly not me, and not many others I would imagine. We don't have much insight into say, Demacia. It's a dictatorship with lots of people who wear blue is more or less the extent of what we know.

As a result, it's hard to care about what goes on. It's not going to get any better, but I still believe LoL makes an interesting example of how to not write a story.

[Moonshadow]

...I just played a premade game with someone who built Vlad for aSpd.

Seriously, he had Mobility Boots and 2 Phantom Dancers. And he wondered why he kept dying -_-;

[Daverin]

the what

In all seriousness, the Journal of Justice is interesting. League of Legends is such a spectacular failure when it comes to world building that it provides an interesting example. What's to blame for it? Amateurish writing?

Well yes. But poor writing can still make for good stories in their own way. For example, everything Blizzard does, though your mileage may vary.

It goes deeper then that. The main viewpoint of the LoL-verse is a current newspaper esque writing, which doesn't provide any backstory. The league judgements are much the same. For example, who cares what so and so wore to a dance, or which fictional character is boning whom. Certainly not me, and not many others I would imagine. We don't have much insight into say, Demacia. It's a dictatorship with lots of people who wear blue is more or less the extent of what we know.

As a result, it's hard to care about what goes on. It's not going to get any better, but I still believe LoL makes an interesting example of how to not write a story.

I would say that it probably gives more background and a better attempt than a game of a similar idea, the arena style, usually would. Is it the best? No, not at all, not even close. But I think that, within comparable games, it has much better writing and attempts to make the background more interactive. And, ultimately, are you going to really play any different, or even roleplay, because they have a fantastic story?

Eh, you probably are right, but I feel they deserve more credit on this one. Except when the actual employees attempt to speak in character (like during the Ionian rematch). That, was bad. Very bad. Horribly bad.

Also, forgot how fun Xin can be. Should learn to play him, add him to my list of dps characters.

[Cute_Riolu]

the what

In all seriousness, the Journal of Justice is interesting. League of Legends is such a spectacular failure when it comes to world building that it provides an interesting example. What's to blame for it? Amateurish writing?

Well yes. But poor writing can still make for good stories in their own way. For example, everything Blizzard does, though your mileage may vary.

It goes deeper then that. The main viewpoint of the LoL-verse is a current newspaper esque writing, which doesn't provide any backstory. The league judgements are much the same. For example, who cares what so and so wore to a dance, or which fictional character is boning whom. Certainly not me, and not many others I would imagine. We don't have much insight into say, Demacia. It's a dictatorship with lots of people who wear blue is more or less the extent of what we know.

As a result, it's hard to care about what goes on. It's not going to get any better, but I still believe LoL makes an interesting example of how to not write a story.

YMMV on that. I like the LoL lore, personally.

[ZeroNumerous]

So guess who got his 400th win as Magemidwick?

This guy.

:smallcool:

Thanks to Keg, Ryo, Lyx and Noxx for being there with me.

[Inhuman Bot]

YMMV on that. I like the LoL lore, personally.

It is, objectively, bad, however.



I would say that it probably gives more background and a better attempt than a game of a similar idea, the arena style, usually would. Is it the best? No, not at all, not even close. But I think that, within comparable games, it has much better writing and attempts to make the background more interactive.


I don't really see a need for a story to exist at all. Heroes of Newerth, for all it's flaws, just takes the piss out of the idea of having a story, and that works pretty well/

QUOTE=Daverin;10981627]. And, ultimately, are you going to really play any different, or even roleplay, because they have a fantastic story?
[/QUOTE]

They don't have dedicated writers. They are taking people from actually useful jobs to write this crap.

[Daverin]

It is, objectively, bad, however.




I don't really see a need for a story to exist at all. Heroes of Newerth, for all it's flaws, just takes the piss out of the idea of having a story, and that works pretty well/

They don't have dedicated writers. They are taking people from actually useful jobs to write this crap.

A) Which is my ultimate point; it is completely unnecessary, therefore any they do have is either a boon or does not matter (in a game like this, a good story is immersive, but a bad story won't matter because there really will be no care in the slightest about the story.)

B) Meh. Its not like they don't have the time to do several things at once. If they are slow on producing new material, I would be wary of claims that it is because they are genuinely strapped for staff and time. Plus, it could help the employees get more attached to their work and put more effort into it as a whole, although I certainly could not produce any evidence of this hypothesis.

[Terazul]

Alot of the JoJ stuff actually comes from people on the forums, particularly the little Roleplaying thing Shurelia runs. Which produces stories, which in turn often produce alot of the skins. Like the whole Tango Twisted Fate/Evelynn thing, iirc. But eh, I usually find them interesting, or at the very least amusing.

Meanwhile, I could probably set my watch to how often Riot's servers seem to spontaneously burst into flames. At 2 AM. I was facerolling that Irelia, too, before most of both teams disconnected :smallannoyed:

..and it became a 2v1 :smallmad:

...with the only guy remaining connected suffering from so much lag it was basically impossible to cast spells :smallfurious:

Yay, free losses. :smallsigh:

[Daverin]

Huh, did not know that about the JoJ.

[Moonshadow]

Hey peoples, would I be wrong in saying that Vayne counters are;

Frozen Heart
Thornmail
Any ability that can stun/snare?

I've played Frozen Heart Cho vs Vayne a couple times, and I just wreck the crap out of her >>

[Eldariel]

Hey peoples, would I be wrong in saying that Vayne counters are;

Frozen Heart
Thornmail
Any ability that can stun/snare?

I've played Frozen Heart Cho vs Vayne a couple times, and I just wreck the crap out of her >>

Vayne is ranged DPS; the counter to her is just friggin' killing her. But yeah, AsPd reduction is fairly effective against her so defensively, Frozen Heart and Randuin are indeed fine calls. Thorn, meh.

[king.com]

Man does this thread move...anyway


Do you have one? Support? Tank? Carry?

Giving that of the limited heroes i play, i've enjoyed annie, ryze and brand most im tempted to go ahead and say carry but i only really play 1 hero a week based on the free ones, i honestly end up needing far more time to have any idea what im supposed to be doing with individual heroes so the only one i feel particularly confident with is annie.




If you're laning what is your CS? Are you getting all the creeps in a lane?


CS? No im not getting all creeps in a lane but with annie im usually top of my team, creep kill wise, if not overall. Atleast during laning phase.




Are you winning against weak laners and surviving against strong ones?

Characters or player wise? Whats the strong laners? I know Caitlyn is an absolute pain to deal with along with Kassadin and Katarina.



If you're jungling do you know the different routes and timers (I admit, the only one I know is baron and dragon. I know the basics of the different routes and have a vague awareness of their timers).


Never jungled, only know the most basic concepts of it.




Do you understand team comp (its not just about having a tank, a carry, a support, etc. Its about having a proper amount of Utility and Damage. I've played games where that happens, we have all the roles filled, but no real damage besides maybe guy. You need more than that.

I know its a good idea to mix ap + ad when worrying about damage but to be honest, given how the average random player choses their hero I dont put too much effort into working it out.

[Master_Rahl22]

Vayne is ranged DPS; the counter to her is just friggin' killing her. But yeah, AsPd reduction is fairly effective against her so defensively, Frozen Heart and Randuin are indeed fine calls. Thorn, meh.

Quoted for truth. Vayne is extremely squishy, her only escape move is her tumble. Well, I guess the giant crossbow knockback counts too. If you can slow/stun her enough or have chasing abilities the tumble doesn't matter and she goes down. I was playing as Malphite with 3 friends and a good pubby Malzahar. I was laning with Akali versus Maokai and Garen, which was hell cause we couldn't really harass either of them. Three times Vayne tried to come bot for a gank and we just killed her then ran away from the other two.

[toasty]

Man does this thread move...anyway

Yeah, the thread moves really fast. It just kinda... happens.


Giving that of the limited heroes i play, i've enjoyed annie, ryze and brand most im tempted to go ahead and say carry but i only really play 1 hero a week based on the free ones, i honestly end up needing far more time to have any idea what im supposed to be doing with individual heroes so the only one i feel particularly confident with is annie.

Annie is a burst/tanky mage. Ryze is a sustained/tanky mage. Both are very solid. Brand is situationally good. He's a strong laner, but has bad late game.


CS? No im not getting all creeps in a lane but with annie im usually top of my team, creep kill wise, if not overall. Atleast during laning phase.

CS = Creep Score. It doesn't make sense but its the term people use. As annie you should have one of the highest CS during the laning phase. Quick Goal: Try to get 100 CS before 15 minutes. Its extremely difficult, I find, but its what you should be aiming for. More importantly, try to just stay ahead of everyone else in CS.


Characters or player wise? Whats the strong laners? I know Caitlyn is an absolute pain to deal with along with Kassadin and Katarina.

There are a lot of strong laners. I'd probably miss some if I tried to list them. FYI Kass is actually NOT a strong laner. He's a bad laner but people put him in solo lanes for various reasons. I don't play Kass and my friends don't play him much (because see, AoE guys like Malz and Anivia and Annie are just better).


Never jungled, only know the most basic concepts of it.

Suggestion: When you hit level 30 try to jungle as Warwick or Nunu. They are both very strong and very easy to jungle with. You do NOT need to be a good jungle to be good at this game, but if you want to take it seriously, you should probably learn jungling a little.


I know its a good idea to mix ap + ad when worrying about damage but to be honest, given how the average random player choses their hero I dont put too much effort into working it out.

Meh, fair enough.

[Math_Mage]

Looking for Cho advice. I feel like he should be grabbing g/5 items and just farming a lane forever like Jarvan, so I've been starting Regrowth Pendant + pot for Philo Stone rush. I don't know whether to think of Philo Stone as redundant with his passive, or as augmenting his passive.


Giving that of the limited heroes i play, i've enjoyed annie, ryze and brand most im tempted to go ahead and say carry but i only really play 1 hero a week based on the free ones, i honestly end up needing far more time to have any idea what im supposed to be doing with individual heroes so the only one i feel particularly confident with is annie.

Burst mages seem to be your thing. Give Sion a go sometime.

[Nargan]

Looking for Cho advice. I feel like he should be grabbing g/5 items and just farming a lane forever like Jarvan, so I've been starting Regrowth Pendant + pot for Philo Stone rush. I don't know whether to think of Philo Stone as redundant with his passive, or as augmenting his passive

I rush catalyst, max his E first, get situational boots, go rod of ages, then build situational for the rest. Cho actually farms really well if you max his E first, then W, with 1 point in Q at level 2. Rylai's is a good item for most situations on him, giving his E a slow (someone here told me that but I can't remember who....sorry ;p).

[Duos]

I like starting Cho with blue crystal and a pot (or ring, depending on the lane) and rushing Rod, but that's just me. His ratios are actually pretty good, so he hurts with even just the rod for AP, leaving you free to build tanky items like FoN (which is really good on Cho) and Frozen Heart. Due to Feast, you end up with a lot of HP naturally, so stuff that gives you more HP really isn't necessary-items that give you more armor/MR are better buys on him. Other good choices are items like Abyssal Scepter or Rylai's, because both increase your survivability while giving you AP.

I also usually level feast>rupture>spikes>scream, because rupture makes farming super easy and reliable while also being a useful harrassment and scouting tool. The scream is really only useful for it's massive silence component, which you don't need until later

Hoenstly, I never thought about starting with stone, but I guess it could work-Cho only procs his passive when he kills something, and you usually do that by casting rupture. More mana regen, more ruptures, more passive procs, more ruptures... Although you'd have to remember that without any AP at all, rupture won't hurt so much after a while and your opponent might get aggressive. Also, more vulnerability to burst early.

[Brother Oni]

Looking for Cho advice. I feel like he should be grabbing g/5 items and just farming a lane forever like Jarvan, so I've been starting Regrowth Pendant + pot for Philo Stone rush. I don't know whether to think of Philo Stone as redundant with his passive, or as augmenting his passive.

Cho'gath? Start with Ruby crystal, get Catalyst -> ROA.

His other core items are Rylai's and an Abyssal, his other items depend on your role and the enemy team comp:

Get Merc treads, Aegis and GA for tanky.

Get a deathcap, Swiftness boots, a Force of Nature instead of the Abyssal then AP items for damage.

0/21/9 or 0/9/21 masteries as I tend to go Ghost/Clairvoyance, although a more aggressive one Cho might do well with a 9/0/21 build with Flash and Exhaust/Ignite.

I personally skill prioritise Feast -> Rupture ->Vorpal Spikes -> Scream, picking up one level of Scream at level 4, although some people prefer Scream over Spikes.

Protect your carry by being big, Feast their DPS to make them run, disrupt their team with your two CCs (Rupture to split them up, Scream to block their initiation) and just generally go OMNOM on their team.


Djinn has a Phantom Dancer DPS Cho build I believe, if you fancy building him something other than tanky AP.

[Dogmantra]

Cho'Gath?

Moots of Bobility, Four Phantom Dancers and an Atma's.

ALWAYS. ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

[Faulty]

Cho'Gath?

Moots of Bobility, Four Phantom Dancers and an Atma's.

ALWAYS. ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Wth is wrong with you? It's Mobility, two Warmog's, Sunfire, one PD and an Atma's.

[toasty]

Looking for Cho advice. I feel like he should be grabbing g/5 items and just farming a lane forever like Jarvan, so I've been starting Regrowth Pendant + pot for Philo Stone rush. I don't know whether to think of Philo Stone as redundant with his passive, or as augmenting his passive.



Burst mages seem to be your thing. Give Sion a go sometime.

Or stick to Annie is who much better. :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

Sounds like...
Health/AP: RoA, Rylai's
MR: Abyssal, FoN
Armor: Frozen Heart, GA
Dominating: Deathcap

Why Ghost over Flash? /curious

No comment on Sion vs. Annie.

[lord_khaine]

Originally Posted by Math_Mage View Post
Looking for Cho advice. I feel like he should be grabbing g/5 items and just farming a lane forever like Jarvan, so I've been starting Regrowth Pendant + pot for Philo Stone rush. I don't know whether to think of Philo Stone as redundant with his passive, or as augmenting his passive.

I have been rushing Philo as well recently, and i do think it works great with his passive, to give him a beastly endurance.

Also, i prefer to level scream up first, i think its a lot better at harrasment though being instant cast, and the silence can often block any retaliation the opoonent might considder.

It should of course also be mentioned that the stone now builds into a very usefull tenacity item.

[turbo164]

Cho'gath? Start with Ruby crystal, get Catalyst -> ROA.



Sapphire Crystal + 2 health pots tends to be better (unless it's treeline, where laning tends to be less important than first blood ganks). Health quints and/or Veteran's Scars tends to be enough max health, the 2 pots gives you more anti-harassment health, the extra mana gives you 2.x more stomps (which means more health and mana from passive), and a tiny bit more regen if you got Strength of Spirit.

Ruby Crystal only matters if you think you'll be going from full health to dead before a Health Pot can take effect (or if you are mundo/garen, who can convert the max health into an extra 2.7/5.4 hp/5 ).

[Brother Oni]

Sapphire Crystal + 2 health pots tends to be better (unless it's treeline, where laning tends to be less important than first blood ganks). Health quints and/or Veteran's Scars tends to be enough max health, the 2 pots gives you more anti-harassment health, the extra mana gives you 2.x more stomps (which means more health and mana from passive), and a tiny bit more regen if you got Strength of Spirit.

Ruby Crystal only matters if you think you'll be going from full health to dead before a Health Pot can take effect (or if you are mundo/garen, who can convert the max health into an extra 2.7/5.4 hp/5 ).

I Start with Ruby because I bait people to waste their mana and between SoS and my passive I can regen it back fairly effectively.

I'm not saying that Sapphire and 2hpots isn't a good start, it's just that I prefer starting with a Ruby Crystal and having over 800 health at level 1 is intimidating, especially when you factor in the knockup/slow and the amount of damage a level 2 Cho can do with Vorpal.

[Math_Mage]

Fnatic MSI vs. TSM (http://solomid.net/livestream.php?s=37904#37904:SoloMid.LoL) happening right now. Looks like an exciting game.

EDIT: Whoops, already over. Hm. TSM smashed them in fights.

Thanks for all the Cho'gath advice. I'm gonna start experimenting with various builds. Faulty/Haunter can testify that I'm reasonably decent.

FWIW, starting Sapphire Crystal will let me run tank runes without worrying about OOMing, which is nice.

[Astrella]

Or stick to Annie is who much better. :smalltongue:

Well, Sion has the advantage of being a great tower pusher as well with Deathcap, Lichbane and his ult combined.

[Dogmantra]

Well, Sion has the advantage of being a great tower pusher as well with Deathcap, Lichbane and his ult combined.

He also asks much better questions.

Who is your summoner?

EDIT: and what does he do?

[Eldariel]

SK vs. MYR (http://www.own3d.tv/live/2721/OceloteWorld)

Banz: Nocturne [MYR], Alistar [SK], Eve [MYR], Anivia [SK], Olaf [MYR], MF [SK]
Pickz
SK: Vayne / Malzahar+Sona / Amumu+Ryze
MYR: Nunu+Taric / Karthus+Urgot / Mordekaiser (wtfl0l!)

[Silverraptor]

Cho'Gath?

Moots of Bobility, Four Phantom Dancers and an Atma's.

ALWAYS. ALWAYS AND FOREVER.


Wth is wrong with you? It's Mobility, two Warmog's, Sunfire, one PD and an Atma's.

You're both wrong. This is the Cho'gath build (http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/phantom-dancer-chogath-yes-good-sir-69089)!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You're both wrong. This is the Cho'gath build (http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/phantom-dancer-chogath-yes-good-sir-69089)!

But...but...it's not. Not quite.

See, that combines TWO builds. The Gentleman Cho'Gath build (or, rather, the Gentleman Cho'Gath play philosophy) with the troll-worthy and completely awesome Phantom Dancer Cho'Gath build. While I appreciate the tone of your guide, I can't help but feel that...well...it could be expanded upon.

I will also point out that referring to your enemies as "My good XXX" is more prototypical of a true Gentleman Cho'Gath and "Sir XXX."

[Math_Mage]

My internets! :smallfrown: Sorry Lego, Arcanoi, Mustache, Seyruun.

[efdf]

Cho'Gath:

Start with a Doran's Ring. AP, Health, and Mana Regen are really nice early game and your passive takes care of any problems you may have with health regen.

Definitely go utility tree, it's the best overall tree and there's nothing that Cho'Gath needs in Defense or Offense. 9/0/21 or 0/9/21 are personal preference in blind pick and based on enemy team in draft mode.

R > W > E > Q or R > W > Q > E
E over Q is theoretically the best DPS per skill point but Q over E has more potential for burst damage. In essence, level E over Q in a close game where there will be a lot of drawn out fights while level Q over E when you're doing well and want to cement your lead by doing things like tower diving and killing your lane enemy. W first is pretty much non-negotiable, it's your most reliable harass and the 3 second AoE silence at max rank is godlike.

For summoner spells, Ghost and Flash really lets you get your farm on as you're pretty much never going to die, and gives you a lot of chasing power and scariness. You can also go Ignite and Ghost for early game dominance.

For builds, there's definitely nothing wrong with 2-3 Philosopher's Stones. However, be aware that this really promotes a turtle-farm play style that can backfire hard if your games tend to be high kill count with early team fighting. A more general build is

Catalyst
Mercury's Treads or Ionian Boots of Lucidity
Frozen Heart
Banshee's Veil
Force of Nature
AP or Sunfire Cape if you're dying

with the focus being maxing out your CDR early and then just tanking up

In fights, pick a target. Land your Q, W your target and as many nearby people as possible then Feast. If not dead, auto-attack, your Vorpal Spikes is really good.

[toasty]

Well, Sion has the advantage of being a great tower pusher as well with Deathcap, Lichbane and his ult combined.

His shield is also rather finicky late game as a source of damage. Sion's never been a super strong Champion, he's solid, but he's not amazing. I'm sad of course because I like Sion, but eh, I can only play OP champions. :smalltongue:

[Master_Rahl22]

SK vs. MYR (http://www.own3d.tv/live/2721/OceloteWorld)

Banz: Nocturne [MYR], Alistar [SK], Eve [MYR], Anivia [SK], Olaf [MYR], MF [SK]
Pickz
SK: Vayne / Malzahar+Sona / Amumu+Ryze
MYR: Nunu+Taric / Karthus+Urgot / Mordekaiser (wtfl0l!)

I'm unable to watch this since I'm at work. I'm curious how the MYR player builds Mord in a tournament environment. I love Mord but I know he's considered very low tier for high ELO play. My guess is that they wanted Nunu jungle and Taric roaming with 3 strong laners.

[efdf]

Wow. Just played a ranked game where, on my team:
- Twisted Fate was disconnected for the first 10 minutes
- Malphite built pure Ability Power
- We only had one form of AD damage
- No one passed the 100 CS mark
http://imageshack.us/m/171/6038/unledit.jpg

And we crushed, hard.
18 minute Baron
20 minute inhibitor
26 minute Nexus kill
averaging more than a hero kill per minute
It's pretty annoying that no matter who I play, I get nothing but assists though.

[Eldariel]

I'm unable to watch this since I'm at work. I'm curious how the MYR player builds Mord in a tournament environment. I love Mord but I know he's considered very low tier for high ELO play. My guess is that they wanted Nunu jungle and Taric roaming with 3 strong laners.

I dunno what they were doing TBH. They got wrecked. Morde was mostly fed on. Then again, so was the rest of the team. Think Morde built some tanky AP with Hextechs and all that, but it didn't really matter.

[Winthur]

My internets! :smallfrown: Sorry Lego, Arcanoi, Mustache, Seyruun.

Honey, getting a 15/8/4 Shaco game while 4v5 was enough of an achievement for me, even if we lost. :3
*Warwick hug*

[Daverin]

So, now that my interest is turned to Xin Zhao, whose fast and furious style is awesome, I realize that I am not sure what the most optimal route is (I apologize for my rampant randomness in trying new champs, btw.)

Obviously builds are situational, but even then, I do not know if Xin gets most of his damage from his abilities or autoattacking (Someone suggested he is more bursty early/mid, and straight dps late.) That, and of course he needs some defensive items, since his abilities do not contribute much to defense or sustainability outside of his passive and laning. So, what is a good start and core for Xin? I've been considering the possibility of starting longsword and pot and go into Youmuus, cloth and 5 pot and go into Madreds (This would give him some defense and damage, while giving him that laning bonus, and then can be built into bloodrazor. Sadly, I understand it is not that good if there are no health stackers in the opposing team), or (My gut reaction and what I have found suggests this is probably to be scrapped) go sapphire and go for Tear and then Manamune. My boots would be Treads, and then I'd finish the core with Randuin's. Choose next 3 according to situation.

Are any of the first items good to start with/ built into first? Is the overall core good? And then, when building for damage, what stats are best to emphasize?

[Arbitrarity]

Manamune is a bad idea. Xin has enough mana for most engagements, and his base regen covers most of your needs. Getting BV or something for sustain could work I suppose. Or Glacial Shroud... I need to build that on more champions.

In lane, rushing a Brutalizer and Ghostblade is your strongest bet (with ArPen, you can destroy most people in your lane). In jungle, you probably want Razors and Lantern fairly quickly. After that offensive base, you need more health and so forth, so start building appropriate defenses. BV, Randuin's, FoN, perhaps Frozen Heart or Warmogs are all decent.

In retrospect, I need to consider the tanky DPS Warmogs+Atmas more, since it seems to faceroll a lot. Especially with Xin's free defenses.

Xin's damage is bursty, from a mix of abilities and his steroids. It mostly scales strongly with ArPen, AS, CDR, and AD, from TTS.

[Faulty]

Warmog's is not a particularly good item and I would advise against it. Xin falls in the tanky dps/bruiser archetype more or less. You build some damage and a fair bit of tanky and push out a reasonable amount of damage while being hard to kill. You use this to jump on important enemy targets and disrupt or kill them.

Check out the 3 approved guides (http://www.solomid.net/guides_search.php?filter=xinzhao) at SM.net and see which ones you dig.

[Raistlin1040]

Hmm. I think today is a good day to play my first Ranked game.

[Inhuman Bot]

Warmog's is not a particularly good item

This requires a qualifier. Warmog's is a great item for player who are good at farming. Ex, Ghetto Fabulous.



Hmm. I think today is a good day to play my first Ranked game.

There's never a good time to play ranked.

[Math_Mage]

There are too many items that are good on Xin, and not enough space to build them. I feel like the best base combination of offensive items on him are Ghostblade, Phantom Dancer, and IE/Atma's depending on your health and farm. For defense, I'd go with either Mallet+FoN or Randuins+BVeil depending on how much you need armor; both provide health, resistances, and a speed differential. Warmog's is good if and only if you're playing straight carry Xin, and therefore have only one slot for survivability. Other great items for him are Sword of the Divine, Black Cleaver, Madred's Razor (mandatory for jungling; build into MBR or Wriggle's according to preference), Bloodthirster, Trinity Force, Stark's Fervor, Wit's End, Last Whisper.

Sigh. It's really really hard to write a guide to itemizing Xin, or I'd have done it already. Or Arb would have. As you can probably discern from the above paragraph, appropriate itemization changes wildly depending on how many slots you want to devote to defense vs. offense, so you have to have a plan in mind from the beginning.

[Inhuman Bot]

Wait LeBlanc is 6300

the patch seriously

manged to **** up

the pricing
of

what

http://i.imgur.com/iICEf.gif

[Math_Mage]

OGB vs. compLexity (http://solomid.net/livestream.php?s=37905#17484:esl.lol)
Bans: Karthus Eve TF Zilean Nocturne Singed

OGB: Malzahar / Soraka Ashe / Jax Amumu
coL: Cho'gath Alistar / Kennen Urgot / Poppy

I feel like compLexity has better lanes, but lacks damage late, and Soraka's heals > Alistar's heals. On the other hand, OGB feels light on sustained CC.


Wait LeBlanc is 6300

the patch seriously

manged to **** up

the pricing
of

what

http://i.imgur.com/iICEf.gif

They're working on it. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=745010) I don't get it either.

[Silverraptor]

But...but...it's not. Not quite.

See, that combines TWO builds. The Gentleman Cho'Gath build (or, rather, the Gentleman Cho'Gath play philosophy) with the troll-worthy and completely awesome Phantom Dancer Cho'Gath build. While I appreciate the tone of your guide, I can't help but feel that...well...it could be expanded upon.

I will also point out that referring to your enemies as "My good XXX" is more prototypical of a true Gentleman Cho'Gath and "Sir XXX."

Then, perhaps you can help me expand on my guide then?:smallsmile:

[Faulty]

LeBlanc's price is fixed.

[Daverin]

Is it a good plan to start with Doran's on Xin? Actually, let me extend that to Dorans in general. How badly will one feel not having any potions?

[Silverraptor]

Warmog's is not a particularly good item and I would advise against it. Xin falls in the tanky dps/bruiser archetype more or less. You build some damage and a fair bit of tanky and push out a reasonable amount of damage while being hard to kill. You use this to jump on important enemy targets and disrupt or kill them.

Check out the 3 approved guides (http://www.solomid.net/guides_search.php?filter=xinzhao) at SM.net and see which ones you dig.

OMG Faulty! Found a Guide in here I want to try!

Thankyouthanktyouthankyouthankyou!

[Daverin]

Indeed, thank you Faulty! Actually, regarding my previous comment, if Doran's isn't a good idea, I may just follow a suggestion to rush a Lantern; provides lane dominance, and if the game goes long enough, I just sell it for something else.

One more thing, what is the optimal rune page for Xin? What are some respectable alternatives?

[TechnOkami]

Look! Look at what madness (http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/?action=view&current=TechnoVikingOlafMK1.jpg) I have wrought!

[Arbitrarity]

Warmog's is not a particularly good item and I would advise against it.


Explain. I can understand this prior to the buff Warmogs recieved several months ago, but since then, warmogs has become the most efficient source of straight HP for cost, and results in superior EHP with appropriate basic defenses or steroids. Certainly as an early item it will result in being ineffective for a portion of the game, but in an appropriate midgame context, its an efficient source of EHP that has great synergy with other defensive items.

I demand a midgame situation to EHP mathcraft, or appropriate mathcrafting done yourself, in order to refute my claim.

[Daverin]

Look! Look at what madness (http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i408/TechnOkami/?action=view&current=TechnoVikingOlafMK1.jpg) I have wrought!

Win. That is all.

[TechnOkami]

Win. That is all.

:3 I do good? Yea, I do good. :smallcool:

[Zeful]

Elementz =* Tier 1: Twisted Fate, Ashe, Karthus, Corki, Mal’zahar, Shen, Janna, Taric, Amumu, Nunu, Swain, Annie.

Oh hey TF, how you... wait, wut? TF the NUMBER ONE PICK? Remember when he wasn't any different but was tier 4? It really is amusing to see how perspective changes.

This is why Elementz's tier list is a joke. He's not listing assessments of each champion, just how well champions do against him and his team, it's worthless for it's purpose, and you'd be better off simply ignoring him and learning to play champions you like well.

In other news, due to failing at Vayne, I'm not going to bother playing her anymore. She's fun, but I simply fail at everything while playing her. I'm going to back to playing champions I can have fun playing as and can do well with.

[Arbitrarity]

This is why Elementz's tier list is a joke. He's not listing assessments of each champion, just how well champions do against him and his team, it's worthless for it's purpose, and you'd be better off simply ignoring him and learning to play champions you like well.


This is why you don't understand what Draft Mode Tier List is for. He's not intending to list assessments of each champion, he's listing how effective and critical certain champions are to current effective strategies (metagame) at high ELO (read: Against his team). It's worthless for trying to figure out how effective champions are in low ELO, unorganized solo queue, and you certainly would be better off ignoring it and playing effective champions (perhaps using the solo queue list, if your ELO is moderate)

Gee, poorly defining the purpose OF the tier list makes it seem to not fit the definition.

[Faulty]

Explain. I can understand this prior to the buff Warmogs recieved several months ago, but since then, warmogs has become the most efficient source of straight HP for cost, and results in superior EHP with appropriate basic defenses or steroids. Certainly as an early item it will result in being ineffective for a portion of the game, but in an appropriate midgame context, its an efficient source of EHP that has great synergy with other defensive items.

I demand a midgame situation to EHP mathcraft, or appropriate mathcrafting done yourself, in order to refute my claim.

I may have missed the Warmog's buff. I'll take your word for it, but what was the buff?

I tend to dislike HP stacking as defense (other than a RoA or Rylai's being considered "defense" for a caster) but if you're a bruiser and pick up an Atma's I can see it being useful. Assuming Warmog's is efficient.

[toasty]

Explain. I can understand this prior to the buff Warmogs recieved several months ago, but since then, warmogs has become the most efficient source of straight HP for cost, and results in superior EHP with appropriate basic defenses or steroids. Certainly as an early item it will result in being ineffective for a portion of the game, but in an appropriate midgame context, its an efficient source of EHP that has great synergy with other defensive items.

I demand a midgame situation to EHP mathcraft, or appropriate mathcrafting done yourself, in order to refute my claim.

Technically its just a bad item except on a few champions (Mundo and Shen). Most heroes who build tanky can get a sunfire's cape or Bveil for the large chunk of health they need.

[term1nally s1ck]

For an EARLYGAME champ, Mogs and nothing else is amazing.
At level 10, Xin will have 1315 HP, 53.2 armor, and 42.5 MR.

Warmogs with no bonus is 2235 HP.

Mogs with bonus is 2685 HP.

You could instead get earlier merc treads, a ruby crystal, chain vest and neg cloak.

1495 HP, 122.5 MR, 98.2 Armor.

EHP:

Mogs:
Phys: 3424
Magic: 3184
Charged Mogs:
Phys:4113
Magic: 3826
'balanced' build:
Phys: 2963
Magic: 3326

Early on, HP is better than armor/MR. Til you have more base HP, you need to buy it.

Later on, you can now build better armor/MR items because you don't need the health too.

[toasty]

This is why Elementz's tier list is a joke. He's not listing assessments of each champion, just how well champions do against him and his team, it's worthless for it's purpose, and you'd be better off simply ignoring him and learning to play champions you like well.

Yeah, you don't understand the tier list.

Ashe has been the #1 pick for a long time. Why? Because in an organized 5v5 team she is a carry that has the utility of a tank. TF is now #1 because he is the best split pusher in the game and Global Ults have been proven to be consistently OP since WCG last year.

The list is biased. Yes. Its biased towards Elementz opinions and the NA meta. That's why Soraka and Malzahar were underrated for a long time. Its why Karthus magically went from Tier 4 to Tier 2. I don't think anyone, even elementz, takes the list extremely seriously. Its his way of trying to communicate the current meta to the general playerbase. Take it with a grain of salt, ignore it if you want, but realize its hardly a definitive statement about the strength of champions. Irelia is Tier 3, but people ban her all the time, for instance. Warwick was Tier 1 for a long time but other heroes have been more popular junglers (CLG much prefers Amumu to Warwick, for instance). its all about Team Comp and playstyles.

[ex cathedra]

In other news, due to failing at Vayne, I'm not going to bother playing her anymore. She's fun, but I simply fail at everything while playing her. I'm going to back to playing champions I can have fun playing as and can do well with.

I'm doing the same. Until I get an appropriate runepage and some more time to practice her, I'm going to stick with AP champs. I just don't do very well with her, and I can never settle on a single build for her. Malz, Lux, and Vlad will keep me company in the mean time.

I'm thinking that building her as a normal AD carry is the best choice. I don't feel like Sheen is good enough to rush on her early game. Late game, Trinity Force is adding, what? about 180 damage to her Q proc. Her base damage at 18 is around 104 (iirc), and so you've got ((104*1.5)+(30*.75)) = +178.5 damage to her Q. I think its usefulness is a bit oversold, since a fully farmed Bloodthirster adds 175. TForce has highly useful movement speed, HP, mana, and attack speed buffs as well, but it's so expensive that I wouldn't build it until well into late-game. The more I think about it, a Black Cleaver seems like the most reliable core for her.

[Eldariel]

Some CLG tourney game too (http://clgaming.net/live/7) (Jiji on Ryze, some stuff going on), dunno the opponents.

[Winthur]

This is why Elementz's tier list is a joke. He's not listing assessments of each champion

This (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=316408) tier list does it perfectly in my opinion. :smallwink:

[Eldariel]

This (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=316408) tier list does it perfectly in my opinion. :smallwink:

I always wondered why Blitz was tier 2 in Brazil if he always wins.


EDIT: Wow. OGB vs. coL G3; just had a double ace at Baron (both teams got wiped) O.o

[Mtg_player_zach]

OMG Faulty! Found a Guide in here I want to try!

Thankyouthanktyouthankyouthankyou!

Personally I think that the author of the guide is more deserving of your thank you, but yes, solomid is an excellent place to look for league of legends advice.

[Daverin]

That said, the tooltips for the items seem like they aren't necessarily up to date; I saw Wit's End mentioned, and it was still referring to the mana burn passive.

[Shades of Gray]

And Xin Zhao's skills had not been updated yet. Now he never loses his passive W and he gets armor and magic resistance proportional to the number of enemies around him.

[ZombyWoof]

Hee hee... premade 5s in ranked. We went 18-0 and took 4 towers. Long story short they surrendered at minute 20.

[Dralnu]

Malzabrooooooooooo!!!!!!

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7915/malzabro.jpg

Every week should be Malzahar week :smallbiggrin:

[Arbitrarity]

Awww yeah, finished 10 solo queue ranked games. 1431 ELO is hopefully out of the hell range.

[Silverraptor]

Malzabrooooooooooo!!!!!!

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7915/malzabro.jpg

Every week should be Malzahar week :smallbiggrin:

And it could be for you, if you save up 6300 IP.

[Raistlin1040]

So, first two ranked games were bad. Played Shen in the first one, did okay, team didn't do well, enemy Jarvan got monstrous. Played Jungle Nunu in the second one, did well, Shaco AFK'd for the first 12 minutes, lost.

[Volatar]

Played 4 games in a row, all of them awesome wins. It just wasn't fair.

We had 3 level 30's: Viers, Ryo, and I, and one level 13 RL friend of Viers and Ryo.

All 4 times we got moderately skilled pubbies (Vayne, Lux, Janna, And Jax). All 4 times I played Ashe in mid. All 4 times Ryo played Morde solo top. All 4 times the level 13 guy played Rumble bot with the pubbie. 3 of the 4 times Viers played Jungle Xin (Once he went Cho'Gath).

All 4 games were hilarious and way fun.

That's the second night in a row that I have left off with a win streak feeling really good.

Also: I am feeling really good about my Ashe play. I think I have figured out how to play her well.

[Daverin]

That's awesome, Volatar! Nothing like winning alot to feel good, eh? :smallamused:

At any rate, I think I am getting an idea of how to play Xin. The only thing is I seem to get more assists than kills with him, but nonetheless my actions often open the way to push vigorously. So... eh?

[Eldariel]

Awww yeah, finished 10 solo queue ranked games. 1431 ELO is hopefully out of the hell range.

There's a marked improvement above 1400 so in that sense, you're pretty well off. Still, of course "The Whole Solo Queue Is Elo Hell" and "The Higher The Better" still apply.

[Penguinizer]

Well, duo queued my first two ranked games. I did decently in the first at 2/1/11 Janna. Then again, the enemy team was kinda bad. The second game was a stomp in their favor. Most people on our team just did badly. We ended up having no coordination and people were being ganked left and right. I ended up at 0/6/6 trying to help people.

[TechnOkami]

I love how every time I play LoL with my girlfriend I start losing. Last 2 games just ended my winning streak. :smallannoyed:

Frustrations are frustrations, mine lies in the fact that my gf's a noob, and I can't do anything about it.

[Brother Oni]

Frustrations are frustrations, mine lies in the fact that my gf's a noob, and I can't do anything about it.

Co-op versus AI is a good way of coaching her through the basics. Just duo-queue with her on that until she's ready for normal queue - using a smurf account is recommended to stop your normal account's ELO putting her against much better players.

If I can teach my wife, I'm sure you can teach your girlfriend. :smallbiggrin:

[Misery Esquire]

Frustrations are frustrations, mine lies in the fact that my gf's a noob, and I can't do anything about it.

This is defenitly not the stance to take!

Coming from me, this probably sounds ridiculous to the Mumblers, but! You need to take it less seriously, far less seriously. Think about how you feel when you get someone who doesn't know how to play an FPS, and then add in the fact that you're supposed to be making memories not frustations! So, just find the upside in things, laugh together, bolster that play and give it another go! Co-op Versus AI can be great fun if she finds a character she likes, especially if it has one of the more hilarious mechanics in the game. Just some basic concepts to get through and then voila! Playing on the same skill level as the random pubbies. :smalltongue:

[Mtg_player_zach]

Awww yeah, finished 10 solo queue ranked games. 1431 ELO is hopefully out of the hell range.

Aww, if I wasn't busy winning FNM I could have joined you.



You want to play more tonight, we'll have to do a normal game first though to see if my internet is stable again though.

[Zen Master]

There are times when I feel Soraka is mindlessly overpowered. With a team that knows what they're doing, she can just ... wreck enemy teams. By proxy, mostly - when I play her.

[Silverraptor]

This is defenitly not the stance to take!

Coming from me, this probably sounds ridiculous to the Mumblers, but! You need to take it less seriously, far less seriously. Think about how you feel when you get someone who doesn't know how to play an FPS, and then add in the fact that you're supposed to be making memories not frustations! So, just find the upside in things, laugh together, bolster that play and give it another go! Co-op Versus AI can be great fun if she finds a character she likes, especially if it has one of the more hilarious mechanics in the game. Just some basic concepts to get through and then voila! Playing on the same skill level as the random pubbies. :smalltongue:

Less seriously?!:smalleek:

Who are you and what have you done with Kinslayer?!:smallfurious:

[Darth Mario]

Awww yeah, finished 10 solo queue ranked games. 1431 ELO is hopefully out of the hell range.

No dice. ELO Hell is defined as "whatever your ELO is and below."

[Darth Mario]

I love how every time I play LoL with my girlfriend I start losing. Last 2 games just ended my winning streak. :smallannoyed:

Frustrations are frustrations, mine lies in the fact that my gf's a noob, and I can't do anything about it.

If you're really concerned about winning and losing when playing with a new player, you can always start up a smurf account. This will even out the difficulty level for them, so they're not being pulled up to a level far beyond their abilities, and will make it easier for you to simply carry the game. Plus, if you lose, it won't affect your score on your main account.

[Makensha]

So I went with Karma...


http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww135/Squiper/Karma.jpg

My favorite part was when I flashed in, killed Annie, then kited Nasus around until Vayne came and finished him (Though to be fair, none of them had good builds. Except maybe Udyr, who I really don't know enough about to make a judgement).

I really like her. In fact, she's probably already my best character.

[Daverin]

So, I just used Jarvan for the second time... and it was one of the best games I've had. I love how he has a nearly instant autoattack, which makes it easier to last hit. That, and how much fun it is to punish the enemy in the lane if they try to bother me. And his farm in general is amazing. And... well, you probably all know about Jarvan anyways. Suffice it to say, I think I've picked up a new champ.

Now, as I understand it, he is also a decent jungler? If so, what does he need specially for jungling (besides smite because, you know, you take smite.) What are his biggest weaknesses jungling?

[Astrella]

I'm personally very hesitant to put good laners in the jungle, especially one as brutal as Jarvan.

[Daverin]

Good point. Although I do need to get a jungler. Probably will work on getting Olaf his runepage at some point and going from there.

Also, this will probably be an obvious question, but what do you think the main differences are between Xin and Jarvan? Is it just Xin is closer to semi-carry, while Jarvan is a good tanky dps with support? Or is that selling either one of them short?

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, Jarvan's biggest weakness in the jungle, I'd assume, is that he is such a flipping good laner, especially as a 1v1 if he can get just a little bit ahead early, and his jungle isn't even like Karthus's in the whole "I am one of the fastest junglers in the game with slightly better ganks than the fastest" and also has no gimmick value, which clearly makes it entirely useless.

EDIT: Xin's focus in my opinion is more on the DPS and Jarvan's on the tanky, with Xin more able to secure kills in lane, with Jarvan being generally more lane dominant.

Also if you want a jungler and you like Xin Zhao, he's a pretty excellent jungler. A tad slow, requires a pull for Blue, but has fantastic ganks, and is pretty hard to 1v1 by a counterjungler unless he's caught at low health.

[Raistlin1040]

Jarvan is just better. He's tankier, he can put out as much damage with Warmog's/Atma's (which seems to be core on him), he's cooler and he yells DEMACIAAAAAA!

[Daverin]

Good point. It is the only real disappointment of Xin that his Three Talon Strike does not end with a heart "DEMACIA!" But yeah, my big thing I like about Xin more than Jarvan is that he seems to be much better at sustained damage (although this may just mean I have more to learn about Jarvan.)

Also, Warmog's and Atmas are core you say? Well, thanks for the advice there. I was wondering about items, as it so happens. :smalltongue:

[Dogmantra]

Also, Warmog's and Atmas are core you say? Well, thanks for the advice there. I was wondering about items, as it so happens. :smalltongue:

efdf had a post a while back naming double Philosopher's Stone into Warmog's into Atma's as your core build. The Philosopher's Stones are really great for making your lane hell for your opponents, and since you have a Warmog's and Atma's, you might wanna be picking up a Force of Nature afterwards then become truly unkillable.

[term1nally s1ck]

Xin is a bruiser. He charges in and beats the crap out of the squishiest thing he can find.

Jarvan is more of a pure tank, he can initiate, keep someone CC'd, and is a big enough threat that people need to attack him. Xin can't do that.

Jarvan usually goes for a pile of gold/5, then goes however tanky is needed.

[Raistlin1040]

I *don't* consider those items core on Jarvan, just because I think he's very flexible as a character and able to itemize to do what he needs to do. However, the general builds I see on him are Warmog's and Atma's, and then usually something like BV/Frozen Heart/Sunfire.

[Volatar]

Hey Dogmantra, you have written a Kennen guide in one of these past threads somewhere. Any idea where that guide went? I am going to need it soon :smallsmile:

[Dogmantra]

The INCREDIBLY INTELLECTUAL and also HIGHLY INFORMATIVE picture based one is in the first post. The other more textual one that was LAME-O is further back (or forwards, I can't find it at the moment) in the same thread if you want me to find it, or I could probably retype something similar.

[Math_Mage]

US vs. EU (http://solomid.net/livestream.php?s=17484#17484:esl.lol), lots going down. Match I can see is SpeedLink vs. TSM, Amumu-Vlad-Karthus-MF-Janna vs. Nunu-Ryze-Taric-Ashe-TF. Odd: EU's running the AOE comp, NA's running something I'd expect to see from Europe.

EDIT: Man, EU's Janna lost them the game so hard. If they'd had Soraka or someone instead, that woulda been at least three fights more to their advantage.


Is it a good plan to start with Doran's on Xin? Actually, let me extend that to Dorans in general. How badly will one feel not having any potions?

Doran's Blade = wrong. You don't need the help to last-hit, and if you're attacking enough for the lifesteal to make a difference you're attacking enough for Xin's passive to do more. Doran's Shield, on the other hand, is pretty solid. You can pick it up against ranged DPS, and start winning lane fights at level 2 because your 1v1 burst does like half their health and their 1v1 harass does maybe 1/4 your health in the same amount of time, and the HP regen is totally reliable. Cloth Armor + 5 pots = maximum sustainability, so it's good for tough lanes. Ranged carries will likely run this against you, so do not give them the chance to just heal up your burst, especially if you're running DShield. If your CDs are up, you should be denying.


Explain. I can understand this prior to the buff Warmogs recieved several months ago, but since then, warmogs has become the most efficient source of straight HP for cost, and results in superior EHP with appropriate basic defenses or steroids. Certainly as an early item it will result in being ineffective for a portion of the game, but in an appropriate midgame context, its an efficient source of EHP that has great synergy with other defensive items.

I demand a midgame situation to EHP mathcraft, or appropriate mathcrafting done yourself, in order to refute my claim.

Warmog's is an efficient source of straight eHP, but most defensive items provide something extra that you want more than the extra eHP. Randuin's slow, BVeil shield, GA revive, Sunfire damage, etc.


This is why Elementz's tier list is a joke. He's not listing assessments of each champion, just how well champions do against him and his team, it's worthless for it's purpose, and you'd be better off simply ignoring him and learning to play champions you like well.

You would be better off ignoring his tier list, but that's not because his tier list is worthless; rather, it's worthwhile for its purpose, which is listing champions by their pick priority in high Elo arranged play. TF has become a top pick in tourneys recently, and the change reflects that. Naturally, this has basically no correlation with what champions should be priority picks in solo queue.


That's awesome, Volatar! Nothing like winning alot to feel good, eh? :smallamused:

At any rate, I think I am getting an idea of how to play Xin. The only thing is I seem to get more assists than kills with him, but nonetheless my actions often open the way to push vigorously. So... eh?

Only natural. You tag lots of people in a fight with your ult, and you're not going to kill them all.


Good point. Although I do need to get a jungler. Probably will work on getting Olaf his runepage at some point and going from there.

Also, this will probably be an obvious question, but what do you think the main differences are between Xin and Jarvan? Is it just Xin is closer to semi-carry, while Jarvan is a good tanky dps with support? Or is that selling either one of them short?

Different power curves, different playstyles. Xin is a bursty laner, so he can't sit back and play the harass war. He picks up early low-tier items like Brutalizer in an attempt to gain lane dominance by winning fights (or jungle ganks). Jarvan doesn't have Xin's burst, but he has great harass and CC. So he sits back, picks up g/5 items, and tries to turn into a one-man army late game. Xin is less reliable than Jarvan because of this; you can keep Xin from dominating his lane, but you can't really stop Jarvan from farming your lane to death.

[Eldariel]

Also if you want a jungler and you like Xin Zhao, he's a pretty excellent jungler. A tad slow, requires a pull for Blue, but has fantastic ganks, and is pretty hard to 1v1 by a counterjungler unless he's caught at low health.

The new Xin is actually a rather fast jungler; his buffs really, really helped him. Hell, I just had my first non-fail jungle Xin in ranked (we still lost that game but it was close and the game was 4v5 from the start; was playing Anivia, me and Xin carrying like hell). Apparently he can do the whole jungle to about 3:50 or so; not amazing but far from slow. And he can do very efficient Level 5 Jungles.

[Math_Mage]

CLG vs. TicTacs getting ready. Grudge match gogogo!
Bans: Jarvan Karthus Shen Nidalee Nocturne TF

CLG: Ashe / Nunu Irelia / Soraka Zilean
TT: Corki Alistar / Amumu Caitlyn (!!!) / Kennen

EU lovin' their AOE comps. CLG giving their carries lots of protection. So...Zilean mid, I guess?


The new Xin is actually a rather fast jungler; his buffs really, really helped him. Hell, I just had my first non-fail jungle Xin in ranked (we still lost that game but it was close and the game was 4v5 from the start; was playing Anivia, me and Xin carrying like hell).

Truth. Jungle Xin can hit level 5 before 5 minutes. That's bloody fast.

[Eldariel]

Funny. TT's line-up is like perfect except it needs Ashe :smallwink:

[Volatar]

The INCREDIBLY INTELLECTUAL and also HIGHLY INFORMATIVE picture based one is in the first post. The other more textual one that was LAME-O is further back (or forwards, I can't find it at the moment) in the same thread if you want me to find it, or I could probably retype something similar.

I swear I looked through that entire first post for the word Kennen (but was on my iPod and so couldn't hit ctrl-F) and missed that.

That guide is actually really quite good and amusing :)

Take a solo lane. QWEQWR. Boots1, Belt, Boots2, Rylais, Hourglass, (Abyssal Sceptre, Deathcap).

Only thing you don't mention is masteries and summoner spells. 9/0/21 Flash/Ignite I assume?

Any tips on managing the stun procs?

[Math_Mage]

Funny. TT's line-up is like perfect except it needs Ashe :smallwink:

Why, don't they have enough initiation/poke already?

Ashe is pretty much all CLG has for initiation; but we saw last time, teams can get away with that. Nunu/Irelia/Zilean provides pretty decent supporting CC.

[Makensha]

I swear I looked through that entire first post for the word Kennen (but was on my iPod and so couldn't hit ctrl-F) and missed that.

That guide is actually really quite good and amusing :)

Take a solo lane. QWEQWR. Boots1, Belt, Boots2, Rylais, Hourglass, (Abyssal Sceptre, Deathcap).

Only thing you don't mention is masteries. 9/0/21 I assume?

Any tips on managing the stun procs?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10518034&postcount=154

There you go.

[Eldariel]

Why, don't they have enough initiation/poke already?

Yeah, but the basic rationale behind a double carry build is hard initiation followed by burst and unlike Corki/Cait, Ashe gives you both. Corki and Cait both only offer damage which makes you reliant on Amumu for initiation, which while extremely strong doesn't really synergize with the "two carries get one guy and make him explode, then dominate 4v5"-plan as well since Amumu can't control the positioning of the caught target due to the nature of his AoE initiation as well. Also, Ashe can initiate from further away which enables Amumu to initiate in turn; that's how they won their last game against CLG.

Kennen is an interesting choice, btw, with Malzahar, Anivia, Ryze and company still legal. I guess they find they have plenty of damage with Corki/Caitwin already and just want the CC powerhouse as opposed to damage...and lack Anivia players.

[Math_Mage]

Yeah, but the basic rationale behind a double carry build is hard initiation followed by burst and unlike Corki/Cait, Ashe gives you both. Corki and Cait both only offer damage which makes you reliant on Amumu for initiation, which while extremely strong doesn't really synergize with the "two carries get one guy and make him explode, then dominate 4v5"-plan as well since Amumu can't control the positioning of the caught target due to the nature of his AoE initiation as well. Also, Ashe can initiate from further away which enables Amumu to initiate in turn; that's how they won their last game against CLG.

Kennen is an interesting choice, btw, with Malzahar, Anivia, Ryze and company still legal. I guess they find they have plenty of damage with Corki/Caitwin already and just want the CC powerhouse as opposed to damage...and lack Anivia players.

Well, there isn't much better initiation than a flash-ult-Zhonya's from Kennen. I remember jiji's Kennen from the WCG NA finals, and while other parts of Kennen have been nerfed since then, that part hasn't been.

While I'm thinking about it, why did SpeedLink pick Janna instead of Sona? I feel like banning Janna would have been the smarter play for an AOE comp, and Sona would have been a much better choice to complement all the damage ults IMO.

[Science Officer]

So, I played Mordekaiser while listening to Manowar today.
And this happened.

Tower-dove to kill Twitch, and Yi starts chasing me, I tower-dive back out from the inhibitor turret, and yi follows me. I want to get away, cause I'm around half health, or a little more.
But then I decide I'm not going to get away from Yi, so I just kill him.
End up at less than 20% health, and that's when Udyr and rammus come out from the bushes near Wraiths.
They're both full health and rather tanky. I know I'm not getting away, so I stand and fight. At one point, I thought I died, but soraka's ult had saved me.
I end up soloing the two of them, frantically pounding my abilities as they come off cooldown, unable to believe that I'm surviving.

End result: Quadra-kill, ace, team takes nexus. :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: One of the enemy team said he'd post a clip of that on the LoL forums, so if anyone spots it, I'd like to see it too :smallbiggrin:

[toasty]

Coming from me, this probably sounds ridiculous to the Mumblers, but! You need to take it less seriously, far less seriously.

Correction: We need to be less serious when it is time to be less serious and we need to know what our reactions to "less serious" should be. For instance, mine is usually run away and play by myself. If I was playing with an IRL friend I'd probably just run my smurf account.


I'm personally very hesitant to put good laners in the jungle, especially one as brutal as Jarvan.

Not only is he a good laner, but he's a bad jungler. He can jungle, but he probably needs to run sustained AND rush a Madreds Razor instead of Heart of Gold.

[Dogmantra]

Correction: We need to be less serious when it is time to be less serious and we need to know what our reactions to "less serious" should be. For instance, mine is usually run away and play by myself. If I was playing with an IRL friend I'd probably just run my smurf account.

What's with THIS guy? Everyone knows LoL is the MOST serious game always and forever and THAT is why Mordekaiser is the best champion because he's so serious and so metal and so HARDKORE (and Corki is the worst champion in the game because his moustache is just SO not serious).

[Winthur]

Everyone knows LoL is the MOST serious game always and forever and THAT is why Mordekaiser is the best champion because he's so serious and so metal and so HARDKORE

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6640/1303527893741.png

[Dogmantra]

Damn it Seyruun, you got fun all over my SERIOUS CHAMPION, what am I going to do now?

[Math_Mage]

CLG picks up a hard-fought victory. Which should have been an easy victory after their early-game stomping, but they got at least two or three bad engagements for no reason. They're not on top of their game yet.


What's with THIS guy? Everyone knows LoL is the MOST serious game always and forever and THAT is why Mordekaiser is the best champion because he's so serious and so metal and so HARDKORE (and Corki is the worst champion in the game because his moustache is just SO not serious).

You kidding?

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac344/Math_Mage/Serious_Mustache.jpg?t=1305408839

[Eldariel]

Well, there isn't much better initiation than a flash-ult-Zhonya's from Kennen. I remember jiji's Kennen from the WCG NA finals, and while other parts of Kennen have been nerfed since then, that part hasn't been.

See? ASHE!

[toasty]

What's with THIS guy? Everyone knows LoL is the MOST serious game always and forever and THAT is why Mordekaiser is the best champion because he's so serious and so metal and so HARDKORE (and Corki is the worst champion in the game because his moustache is just SO not serious).

Morde es #1? :smallbiggrin:

[Math_Mage]

See? ASHE!

Touché.

EDIT: But I didn't see a single Flash-ult-Zhonya's from Kennen. :smallwink:

CLG vs. LLL
Bans: Twisted Fate Ashe Shen Jarvan Karthus Nidalee

LLL: Irelia / Malzahar Amumu / Sona Corki
CLG: Nunu Zilean / Soraka Caitlyn / Singed

Someone finally dropped a ban on Ashe. Man, Hotshot must be feeling down with all these Nid/Jarvan bans. No wonder they had saintvicious in for him last game. But LLL let jiji pick Zilean again. Don't know how that happened.

I think LLL has the right idea here, though. Counter the 'protect the carry' team by picking champs that just destroy carries. And CLG's fresh out of initiation, because...no Ashe! :smallcool: LLL has lots of AOE, lots of CC. Mumu/Sona ult on Malz puddle wins fights.

Soraka Caitlyn doesn't help CLG, honestly. I don't know who CLG can pick last to complete this comp. They need a solo laner with strong initiation and CC. Keelie just suggested Renekton; I think that's a good idea.

IMO, CLG got solidly out-comped. They're going to have to pull out an amazing early game to win.

[Mtg_player_zach]

There is a time and a place for being serious and non serious.

My idea of non-serious is ARAM and playing characters I wouldn't play in ranked.

My idea of serious is ranked and draft.

Now where problems begin is when people say non-serious inhouse and some people build really stupid, and others think of non-serious as just playing characters they don't play much.

In normals I feel as if everyone is entitled to playing the character they want to play pretty much. If you want to do something silly like play mid warwick-- go for it, but tell us beforehand so we can plan for it; when you say during the loading screen that you are mid when there are better mids on the team you are just a jerk.

Also, I'm going to make an ARAM rune page, it will be glorious. Health regen quints!

Also also, I'm sick of people being unable to solo a lane. Please don't die in the first 30 seconds of laning and then later blame it on the jungler. The jungler can't do much for you before first clear. If you are in that much trouble before jungle's first clear, then clearly you need to get better. Remember it's the jungler's job to help you, not lane for you.

[toasty]

Yeah, I love Ashe bans, because they are so damn smart. Ban the best ****ing hero in the game. Thank you.

And yeah, LLL is now counter-picking brilliantly. Ban Ashe, Ban Nid, Pick Ashe.

I bet CLG takes Corki/Cho/Ali/Amumu/something unless LLL tries for Amumu

Edit: NVM, Zilean, Nunu. Yeah... that makes sense too. Direct Carry buffs instead of carry protection when Corki doesn't need it so much. Though I feel that Nunu is not a good first pick hero becuase his strength is early game jungle dominance, which is situational, especially if someone picks up like, Warwick or Alistair for jungling.

[Eldariel]

Touché.

EDIT: But I didn't see a single Flash-ult-Zhonya's from Kennen. :smallwink:

He didn't need to Zhonya's since his ult had everybody running to the hills so he was pretty safe doing it :smallwink:

Zile is a brilliant pick, btw. Superstrong mage that doesn't need skillshots. In lag, that's huge.

[toasty]

That... actually that makes sense as to why they would pick Zilean. Even though he's not as magey as picks like Annie or Anivia.

Also: Caitlyn. Caitlyn. Why? When Corki is free? I... I don't understand.

[Eldariel]

That... actually that makes sense as to why they would pick Zilean. Even though he's not as magey as picks like Annie or Anivia.

Also: Caitlyn. Caitlyn. Why? When Corki is free? I... I don't understand.

'cause Jiji Caitwin Big Time. Srs tho, she's good. Like, she's not as high damage as Corki, but she gives you a way to control key points on the map; 3 traps is a lot.

Also, Zile is also nice since he's a support mage; he blasts quite well (two .9 AP ratio AoE nukes in Bomb + Bomb) and gives you control in slow, speed-up initiation/escape and then extra character. On a 20s CD. Zile is really one of the best mages in the game and hugely underrated right now (tho many people still remember to ban him).

[toasty]

Corki > Caitlyn every game, IMO. If you want map control actually take CV and buy an extra ward. CLG has the ability to pretty much outfarm everyone.

[Eldariel]

Corki > Caitlyn every game, IMO. If you want map control actually take CV and buy an extra ward. CLG has the ability to pretty much outfarm everyone.

Corki missiles and Bombs are also harder to hit in lag than Piltover Peacemaker (bigger projectile, smaller amount of her composite damage output; oh, and a built-in "stun" to actually hit it). So that may play a part there; I recall Chauster saying he doesn't want to play Corki in lag. CV and wards aren't the same. A trap means someone simply can't move there without risking dying, while Wards just let you know if someone moves there. They're closer to Teemo Shrooms than Traps, but they can't be destroyed (except with time). Best trap in the game currently.

Btw, Mix, Mix, Let It Mix. Take A Drink And Get My Fix!

[Math_Mage]

'cause Jiji Caitwin Big Time. Srs tho, she's good. Like, she's not as high damage as Corki, but she gives you a way to control key points on the map; 3 traps is a lot.

Also, Zile is also nice since he's a support mage; he blasts quite well (two .9 AP ratio AoE nukes in Bomb + Bomb) and gives you control in slow, speed-up initiation/escape and then extra character. On a 20s CD. Zile is really one of the best mages in the game and hugely underrated right now (tho many people still remember to ban him).

But jiji is the Caitlyn player and the Zilean player. Chauster is their Corki player; I think that would work better.

EDIT: Well, lag. Yeah. :smallyuk:

[Eldariel]

And honestly, I can't overstate this: Do not underestimate champion based map control abilities. Last game, CLG had a decisive vision advantage thanks to, you guessed it, Ashe. Which made it so very hard for TT to control the map even with Oracle; once both teams have Oracle, champ-based abilities shoot up in value as Wards become less reliable. CV does a lot but not everything; it's still only 1/4th of the time you have CV vision.

Cait's is supergood since it's not only vision, it's also an actual physical obstacle allowing you to restrict enemy team's movement especially when engaging near the traps. It's also a great lane control tool; every time you step onto a trap you take a free Peacemaker to the face.

[Winterwind]

Might as well join the list, too... DreamingHeart on the Europe server.

Been playing Garen for the most part, he seems to suit me fine. Though, with me being both pretty new to this (I have played a fair amount of DotA and similar maps in WC3, but never as many to reach the kind of mastery players who actually train at these maps tend to reach), and too shy to join public games on my own, without friends more accustomed to this game accompanying me, it might take me a while to accumulate the IP to keep him once he stops being free to play. Ah well. Guess it's an opportunity to try out new ones.

[Penguinizer]

Most people play on the US server, even the ones from Europe like me, Seyruun and Mustacheman. You're more likely to find a game on the US server.

[Winthur]

Most masochists play on the US server, even the ones from Europe like me, Seyruun and Mustacheman. You're more likely to miss creeps and skillshots on the US server.

Fixed :smalltongue:

[Penguinizer]

The only skillshots I miss are the ones I need to kill someone. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Saint's teamplay so bad. Obviously he's one of the best Singeds in the world and he rocks solo queue but he just doesn't seem used to playing with the team. His initiations, the dive, all that; he keeps messing up the teamplay aspects.

[Dogmantra]

Wait just a minute. Singed is supposed to play with the team?

I thought the way you played Singed was push bot, get stopped, get away, push top, get stopped, get away, push bot, get stopped, get away, rinse, repeat. Laugh as your team mates can't do anything but sit mid.

[Eldariel]

Wait just a minute. Singed is supposed to play with the team?

I thought the way you played Singed was push bot, get stopped, get away, push top, get stopped, get away, push bot, get stopped, get away, rinse, repeat. Laugh as your team mates can't do anything but sit mid.

Well, he's trying.

[Penguinizer]

Wait just a minute. Singed is supposed to play with the team?

I thought the way you played Singed was push bot, get stopped, get away, push top, get stopped, get away, push bot, get stopped, get away, rinse, repeat. Laugh as your team mates can't do anything but sit mid.

No, see, you shut down your lane by repeatedly towerdiving people starting at level 6. :smalltongue:

Then you can't push since you're always almost dead.

[Math_Mage]

Saint's teamplay so bad. Obviously he's one of the best Singeds in the world and he rocks solo queue but he just doesn't seem used to playing with the team. His initiations, the dive, all that; he keeps messing up the teamplay aspects.

Singed has been...well, okay; but he can't complete this team. Without Ashe, the comp really falls apart. LLL did a good job of shutting down jiji late, and CLG had no damage apart from Chauster. Didn't help that Kobe couldn't find a good place to ult, ever.

[9mm]

In many ways the double support set up relies on Ashe to make it work. As she not only brings the utility but helps makes up the damage that you give up with Soraka. I really feel CLG should have just gone nunu, zil, completely different comp. The Soraka pick just made no sense without Ashe available.

[Dogmantra]

I swear I looked through that entire first post for the word Kennen (but was on my iPod and so couldn't hit ctrl-F) and missed that.

That guide is actually really quite good and amusing :)

Take a solo lane. QWEQWR. Boots1, Belt, Boots2, Rylais, Hourglass, (Abyssal Sceptre, Deathcap).

Only thing you don't mention is masteries and summoner spells. 9/0/21 Flash/Ignite I assume?

Any tips on managing the stun procs?
Generally start with a Doran's Shield by the way, rather than boots. Boots are a better start in some matchups, but Doran's is safer in every matchup, so until you learn which ones you can afford to go boots (and it depends on your style a lot) stick with Doran's.

If you're being forced into teamfighting before you have an Hourglass and a Rylai's, try not to be the initiation, and if teamfights looks like they're gonna start before your Rylai's is even done, keep the Giant's Belt, then go straight for your Hourglass.

Masteries are indeed 9/0/21, though if you want you can go 3/6/21, 9/21/0, 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 (obviously with dodge instead of strength of spirit) for more defensive masteries, but you shouldn't need that. Flash is pretty much a must. Ignite is great for getting kills in lane, Exhaust is good if you want to be punishing over aggressive opponents, I like Ignite the most as my second spell. Cleanse is also an idea, to make it so you don't get CCed before you can ult.

And for managing stun procs, I've said it before, but Kennen's primary resource system isn't Energy or cooldowns, it's Electrical Surge procs. In an absolutely ideal world you would never use one to last hit, favouring your Shurikens until you can throw the surge at an enemy and follow up with the Surge active, but you miss too much farm that way unless your opponent(s) is/are very dumb and hate(s) having HP. Unless victory is absolutely assured you should NOT attempt an engagement without a surge proc or a surge proc next autoattack. Generally your harrass goes surge proc > Surge > Rush (stunned) > back off/point blank Shuriken. Based on your opponent's reaction, you decide whether to turn it into an engagement or not. Getting Exhausted, for example, is a big flag saying "I HAVE NO OTHER ESCAPES UP I THINK I WILL DIE IF YOU KEEP ATTACKING ME (AND AM PROBABLY RIGHT) PLEASE DO NOT KEEP ATTACKING ME". Getting hit with any other aggressive abilities means they think they can take you, so that's a sign to consider backing off. If they have skillshots or AoEs, try looking at the placement for aggressiveness/defensiveness. Basically, the more abilities they blow trying to stop you from killing them, the more that's your sign to keep going. It might seem counterintuitive to only hit your ultimate once you've been Exhausted, but if gets kills, and plenty of 'em.

[Astrella]

Might as well join the list, too... DreamingHeart on the Europe server.

Been playing Garen for the most part, he seems to suit me fine. Though, with me being both pretty new to this (I have played a fair amount of DotA and similar maps in WC3, but never as many to reach the kind of mastery players who actually train at these maps tend to reach), and too shy to join public games on my own, without friends more accustomed to this game accompanying me, it might take me a while to accumulate the IP to keep him once he stops being free to play. Ah well. Guess it's an opportunity to try out new ones.

Hm hm. You should consider switching to the US server, since then you can play with us people. :smallsmile:
All the mumble frequenting crowd, no matter where they are from has a US account anyway.

[Eldariel]

In many ways the double support set up relies on Ashe to make it work. As she not only brings the utility but helps makes up the damage that you give up with Soraka. I really feel CLG should have just gone nunu, zil, completely different comp. The Soraka pick just made no sense without Ashe available.

Zil is a perfectly good mage. He does around the same damage as Sion except instead of Stun, he has 2 AoEs. His damage is approximately the same as that of the other 2-spell mages, Kassadin and Sion (yes, yes, Lichbane, DFG). Bit higher than Kass and lower than Sion due to better and worse AP ratios respectively. In other words, he acts as a mage when farmed, not a support. The team really didn't have 2 supports; sure, Zile can be a support but that Zile was DPS and did it quite well, I might add. The AoE damage Zile deals is just massive. They just lacked means to give him an opening to nuke.

That wasn't really the problem. CLG's problem was, as even the commentators noted, lack of initiation and to lesser extent, CC. Yes, Singed can run and fling but that really doesn't make it safe for the rest of the team to descent and lay waste upon the enemies the same way hard CC initiation from Mumu/Ashe/company does and doesn't displace the enemy team the same way Gragas & co. do. CC isn't that big a deal otherwise but when your initiation is Singed running in and flinging someone, you really need a way to hold that someone down and finish the job. The team didn't really have that.

If they had Ashe over Cait, the team woulda suddenly went from "meh" into "Great!" Rammus would've also been nice but their jungle was already taken. They really built the team to dominate the lanes but the disaster at the top tower shut that plan down, and then they totally ****ed up that fight at Baron (mostly due to the initiation simply simply not working) and got aced and lost the game. The inability to properly play skillshot heavy champs really puts a premium on the capable initiator characters; with Jarvan, Shen & Ashe banned and Amumu taken, you're just at a tight spot.


EDIT: Frankly, this showcases how laning initiators are quite rare. Warwick, Amumu, Rammus, Nocturne, etc. there's a ton of jungling initiators but precious few that lane (Ashe, Shen, Jarvan, Gragas, Morgana off the top of my head).

[Dallas-Dakota]

Fixed :smalltongue:

Hubba hubba, don't make me come in and take your kill from across the map with Ashe or Ez.:smallcool:

*my Record of doing this with Ashe, is actually thrice in one game. Twice saving the teammate that was going 1vs 1 with somebody and near death.

I've saved some people neatly with my ashe Arrow. And I play a lot of Ezrael and do well with him.

So.:smallamused:

[term1nally s1ck]

Laning initiators: Ashe, Alistar, Annie, Blitz, Galio, Gragas, Irelia, Jarvan, Kennen, Malphite, Morgana, Shen, Veigar, WW, Xin.

[toasty]

Laning initiators: Ashe, Alistar, Annie, Blitz, Galio, Gragas, Irelia, Jarvan, Kennen, Malphite, Morgana, Shen, Veigar, WW, Xin.

Blitz: Skillshot
Gragas: Skillshot
Kennen: Wickd spent his entire commentary talking about how trashy this hero is, and I believe Elemtenz agrees.
Morgnana: I've seen like 3 morganas after the Morg nerfs way back.
Malphite: Kinda meh after nerfs
Jarvan, Shen: Banned
Veigar: Crappy champion with very, very, quirkly initiate. I don't even consider it intiation.
WW/Xin: Jungle taken. Xin is iffy in lane IMO.

Yeah, if CLG isn't play Skill-shot based champions this tourement they're basically shooting themselves in the foot.

[Daverin]

Huh. I am trying to learn Jarvan and Xin, and can play a decent Gragas, so I guess I have more initiators in my arsenal than I first thought. Cool.

So, provided I can get good enough with them, my list of champs I can play decently will become Swain, Taric, Gragas, Jarvan, and Xin, and I also am learning to play Karthus. I feel like I'm making progress on this. Also, if how well I can play at my own level says anything, I think learning to play with you guys has helped me out; I can't quite say what it is, but it seems I am making better judgment calls in general. With both Xin and Jarvan for the past few matches, I have done an amazing lane, getting 2-3 kills. My overall performance seems very good. So, I just wanted to again express my appreciation for letting me play with you guys. I still have a long way to go before I am at your level, but the difference is quite noticeable. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:


WW/Xin: Jungle taken. Xin is iffy in lane IMO. I wouldn't say iffy, although I can probably see why he'd be better in jungle. Then again, I can see why you'd say that; even with his passive, if the other laner is good at farming and harassing, he probably is not going to get much sustainability. I would not call him necessarily worse in lane than others, and indeed can be very good in lane, but I can imagine that if he does hit a bad lane, he is going to suffer terribly later on.

[9mm]

Zil is a perfectly good mage. He does around the same damage as Sion except instead of Stun, he has 2 AoEs. His damage is approximately the same as that of the other 2-spell mages, Kassadin and Sion (yes, yes, Lichbane, DFG). Bit higher than Kass and lower than Sion due to better and worse AP ratios respectively. In other words, he acts as a mage when farmed, not a support. The team really didn't have 2 supports; sure, Zile can be a support but that Zile was DPS and did it quite well, I might add. The AoE damage Zile deals is just massive. They just lacked means to give him an opening to nuke.

That wasn't really the problem. CLG's problem was, as even the commentators noted, lack of initiation and to lesser extent, CC. Yes, Singed can run and fling but that really doesn't make it safe for the rest of the team to descent and lay waste upon the enemies the same way hard CC initiation from Mumu/Ashe/company does and doesn't displace the enemy team the same way Gragas & co. do. CC isn't that big a deal otherwise but when your initiation is Singed running in and flinging someone, you really need a way to hold that someone down and finish the job. The team didn't really have that.

If they had Ashe over Cait, the team woulda suddenly went from "meh" into "Great!" Rammus would've also been nice but their jungle was already taken. They really built the team to dominate the lanes but the disaster at the top tower shut that plan down, and then they totally ****ed up that fight at Baron (mostly due to the initiation simply simply not working) and got aced and lost the game. The inability to properly play skillshot heavy champs really puts a premium on the capable initiator characters; with Jarvan, Shen & Ashe banned and Amumu taken, you're just at a tight spot.


EDIT: Frankly, this showcases how laning initiators are quite rare. Warwick, Amumu, Rammus, Nocturne, etc. there's a ton of jungling initiators but precious few that lane (Ashe, Shen, Jarvan, Gragas, Morgana off the top of my head).
I see what your saying but initiation options wins games, and that team comp had none, singed running around herping a derping isn't initiation, it's annoyance. When CLG picked Soraka; they needed to fill initiation, aoe cc bot (to help nunu do his Job), physical carry, and tank in 2 picks; something that with the bans ment ClG had to pick a melee tanky dps carry like Renecton plus whatever tank that suits your fancy or go super carry and get a Bodyguard WALL to protect the super. They did neither. Personally I would have picked Malphite for the tank role over singed, as he could really tie clumped groups into knots, protect Caitlyn, actually deal some damage. but still I feel Soraka just wasn't a good pick at that time and situation.

[toasty]

I see what your saying but initiation options wins games, and that team comp had none, singed running around herping a derping isn't initiation, it's annoyance. When CLG picked Soraka; they needed to fill initiation, aoe cc bot (to help nunu do his Job), physical carry, and tank in 2 picks; something that with the bans ment ClG had to pick a melee tanky dps carry like Renecton plus whatever tank that suits your fancy or go super carry and get a Bodyguard WALL to protect the super. They did neither. Personally I would have picked Malphite for the tank role over singed, as he could really tie clumped groups into knots, protect Caitlyn, actually deal some damage. but still I feel Soraka just wasn't a good pick at that time and situation.

Yeah and see this is where you get opinions and who plays what. StVicious plays Singed. I've never even seen Malphite played by anyone on CLG's team. I do admit though, he might have been a better pick.

[Mindfreak]

Please add me to the list!

Mindfreak586

North American Server

Also, is there any Champions you guys recommend for a beginner to use? If no one answers I guess I will just use the little girl with the gigantic bear with stitches.

[Eldariel]

I see what your saying but initiation options wins games, and that team comp had none, singed running around herping a derping isn't initiation, it's annoyance.

However, Singed running in and flipping a champ out of place is an initiation provided you have a team comp capable of following up with a stun or similar and the kill. CLG, of course, did not. Malphite would've been perhaps the best pick, to be sure, but I'm pretty sure CLG didn't even think about him given he's quite weak right now.

It's worth noting that the Irelia-lane, something they were most likely most concerned about, is pretty hard for Malph in his 12s shield refresh state. After the reduction goes live, he may be better off; haven't tried against Ire. 8s, he'd be fine, 12, not really with how strong Irelia's harass can be. He'd get zoned much of the time and have to give up tons of CS to recharge his shield.


Wow. Alistar wasn't banned nor picked. That might have been an oversight on CLG's part. Either Support Alistar over Soraka, or AP Alistar over Singed would've solved all their problems. And practically every member of CLG can play Alistar. Unless the Headbutt/Pulv hotfix isn't live on the Tourney Server yet.

I mean, yeah, Pulv is a skillshot of sorts too and his initiation is a combo, so his viability depends on if Headbutt>Pulv/Flash>Pulv can be executed under lag or not; I haven't tried. I do remember Elementz having lots of trouble with his Flash>Pulvs last time though.

Another pick that could've been good is Cho'Gath, but since Hotshot, their dedicated Cho'Gath player was missing, I understand the lack of that. And again, Rupture is hard to land in lag.


Yeah, if CLG isn't play Skill-shot based champions this tourement they're basically shooting themselves in the foot.

You saw how well they did last time, when they played a bunch of skillshot champs. Lag really ****s skillshot champs up, hence why I've been calling this tournament biased all this time. I brought this very matter up after the last swathe of games where they lost; their options are just heavily constrained to only champs that aren't really skillshot-based and have easy-to-land or low-importance skillshots.

[toasty]

Yeah, I'm thinking that Riot won't endorse another one of these Tourney's any time soon. Sadly, EU v NA (or any other intercontinental matches) will have to be dealt with via LAN tournaments like WCG and Dreamhack

[Silverraptor]

Please add me to the list!

Mindfreak586

North American Server

Also, is there any Champions you guys recommend for a beginner to use? If no one answers I guess I will just use the little girl with the gigantic bear with stitches.

Oh, uh...

I'll get to it as soon as possible. Also, I hope I didn't miss anyone. I saw this and my mind just "Woke up" that it was directed at me. Could anyone let me know if anyone else asked to be added to the list in this thread?

[Hatevah]

Oh, uh...

I'll get to it as soon as possible. Also, I hope I didn't miss anyone. I saw this and my mind just "Woke up" that it was directed at me. Could anyone let me know if anyone else asked to be added to the list in this thread?

Me too please!

Hatevah

NA Server

Thanks!

[Eldariel]

There are the only requests I could find:


Might as well join the list, too... DreamingHeart on the Europe server.

Been playing Garen for the most part, he seems to suit me fine. Though, with me being both pretty new to this (I have played a fair amount of DotA and similar maps in WC3, but never as many to reach the kind of mastery players who actually train at these maps tend to reach), and too shy to join public games on my own, without friends more accustomed to this game accompanying me, it might take me a while to accumulate the IP to keep him once he stops being free to play. Ah well. Guess it's an opportunity to try out new ones.


Please add me to the list!

Mindfreak586

North American Server

Also, is there any Champions you guys recommend for a beginner to use? If no one answers I guess I will just use the little girl with the gigantic bear with stitches.

[Volatar]

Kennen stuff

Thanks Dog, I will take your advice and make good use of it :smallsmile:



Also, is there any Champions you guys recommend for a beginner to use? If no one answers I guess I will just use the little girl with the gigantic bear with stitches.

Annie is a great champion for beginners. I would also recommend Ashe.

[Daverin]

So, I am curious exactly how this tournament has been set up. Who is running it, and why is there so much lag involved?

[term1nally s1ck]

It's laggy cos it's EU vs NA. 200 ping is pretty significant at these levels.

[Mindfreak]

Annie is a great champion for beginners. I would also recommend Ashe.

Yeah, I saw how you could easy have great damage per shot on Ashe. It would be easy to get good damage output on her. Are there any other Champions with her Hawkeye ability thing?(The one that lets her send a hawk to scout terrain)

[Dogmantra]

Yeah, I saw how you could easy have great damage per shot on Ashe. It would be easy to get good damage output on her. Are there any other Champions with her Hawkeye ability thing?(The one that lets her send a hawk to scout terrain)

Not quite, but Clairvoyance is similar, and Twisted Fate's ultimate reveals all enemy champions, along with Nidalee and Caitlyn's traps which reveal opponents who go over them.

[Mindfreak]

I guess I will do some more reading up on champions tomorrow. It's always good to know enemy champion's possible abilities and how they can be effective in a team and how to countermeasure their abilities.

[toasty]

Ashe is a horrible champions for beginning players. At least, in my opinion. The easiest carry is probably Tristana since she has a built in escape. Corki is in general the best Solo Queue Carry, but he has a lot of skill shots (and I admit, i am terrible at landing them).

Weirdest thing happened today: I got outlaned by a Yi. He wasn't strong enough to kill me except if I was stupid. They couldn't gank me because I was so pushed up plus, ya know, Corki. But I got outfarmed most of the game (not by much, but enough). I couldnt harass him because he just alpha striked mostly (and that harasses me) and he would heal all his damage with his mediate. Maybe if I had bought a sheen first instead of a tear...

[Eldariel]

Not quite, but Clairvoyance is similar, and Twisted Fate's ultimate reveals all enemy champions, along with Nidalee and Caitlyn's traps which reveal opponents who go over them.

Teemo Shrooms and Shaco Jack in the Boxes reveal small area of map around them also, though they're closer to Wards than Hawkshot in function.

[toasty]

Teemo Shrooms and Shaco Jack in the Boxes reveal small area of map around them also, though they're closer to Wards than Hawkshot in function.

We're leaving out Maokai's saplings. :smallbiggrin:

[Master_Rahl22]

So, I played Mordekaiser while listening to Manowar today.
And this happened.

I WAS FLIPPING AWESOME

I need to write a guide that lists skilling order, a few good items for Mord, and "LISTEN TO MANOWAR WHILE PLAYING. THAT IS ALL" :smallbiggrin:

[Spartacus]

I agree with Eldariel that Riot's tournaments lately have been absolute rubbish. Karthus killing the spectator, lag messing with viable champions, hotfixes not going down when announced...

[Silverraptor]

So, I updated the list of people. Pleasure to have you all on board.:smallsmile:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

How can I be good with Warwick?

Most of my jungling experience is with Nunu/Olaf.

[Eldariel]

How can I be good with Warwick?

Most of my jungling experience is with Nunu/Olaf.

You're a sustainable jungle control champ. Your jungle is supersafe. Your ganks are mediocre before 6. You're a decent counterjungler and a strong 1v1. Basically, the things you need to know:
- Don't waste your time ganking anybody who isn't overextended on the lane; chances are you're just wasting your time.
- WW generally doesn't gank too early. Generally you want to do a full lap in the jungle first.
- WW doesn't rely on anything to jungle; you can just go from wherever and get it done.
- Level 6, your ganks go from "meh" to godlike. Once you hit 6, gank hard and often (Infinite Duress CD is fairly short too).
- You generally need to build tanky on WW since you'll be on the front a lot in fights. If you need damage, Madred's Bloodrazor is generally the first stop as your ultimate applies on-hit effects making it and redbuff increase the damage notably (also, you have an inherent attack speed steroid which is nice for proccing on-hits).

That's about it. Not much to know about him, really. He can initiate fights; generally you just want to ult down a squishy tho. About his jungling...blue-start is the fastest but he's free to do pretty much whatever he wants.

[St. Viers]

How can I be good with Warwick?

Most of my jungling experience is with Nunu/Olaf.


Pick 30 runes at random, assign 30 skill points randomly. Pick a creep camp at random. Pick Q or W as your first skill. Clear jungle. Gank at 6.

EDIT: really, pick runes that will be most useful, either standard jungle, or slightly tanky, etc.

Most common is getting 1-2 attack items (Bloodrazor, Wriggles+Wits End, etc), and build tanky. This lets you jump into a fight, and survive your ult.

[Volatar]

Not quite, but Clairvoyance is similar, and Twisted Fate's ultimate reveals all enemy champions, along with Nidalee and Caitlyn's traps which reveal opponents who go over them.

There is also Lux with her light balls. Probably one of the shortest cooldown scouting spells.

[Math_Mage]

If you need a reason why they didn't pick Alistar, look at the match where they did. Missed Pulverize opportunities all over the place.

After the Ashe ban, I think they should have simply played something else. It was clear from that point that LLL was trying to counter their 'protected super-carry' strat. From that, it's easy to deduce an AOE CC comp (how do you kill someone with protectors? CC the protectors too), and so counterpick in turn.

...except the counterpicks are largely lag-affected champs. Grargh.



EDIT:
I wouldn't say iffy, although I can probably see why he'd be better in jungle. Then again, I can see why you'd say that; even with his passive, if the other laner is good at farming and harassing, he probably is not going to get much sustainability. I would not call him necessarily worse in lane than others, and indeed can be very good in lane, but I can imagine that if he does hit a bad lane, he is going to suffer terribly later on.

Xin vs. Irelia in lane is to Irelia's favor because her CC is instant and Xin's usually isn't. Also, Xin can't play primary initiator very well.

[9mm]

After the Ashe ban, I think they should have simply played something else. It was clear from that point that LLL was trying to counter their 'protected super-carry' strat. From that, it's easy to deduce an AOE CC comp (how do you kill someone with protectors? CC the protectors too), and so counterpick in turn.

...except the counterpicks are largely lag-affected champs. Grargh.


which is why the Soraka pick just so confuses me; it litteraly gave CLG nothing they needed; even at half way through the picks. It makes no sense to me, if you still need a carry, cc, a tank, initiation, and an Irellia counter: where does Soraka fit any of that?

[Eldariel]

which is why the Soraka pick just so confuses me; it litteraly gave CLG nothing they needed; even at half way through the picks. It makes no sense to me, if you still need a carry, cc, a tank, initiation, and an Irellia counter: where does Soraka fit any of that?

They just wanted to win laning hard and snowball, I think. Soraka is a superb laner.

[Math_Mage]

They just wanted to win laning hard and snowball, I think. Soraka is a superb laner.

And they almost did, despite everything.

But man...what if that Soraka had been Janna/Taric instead?

[Daverin]

If that is the case, this sounds more like hindsight is 20-20 than a clear problem with their comp; Then again, I haven't seen it, so I wouldn't know the specifics.

Also, a Karthus ult killing spectators? Wtf?

[Math_Mage]

If that is the case, this sounds more like hindsight is 20-20 than a clear problem with their comp; Then again, I haven't seen it, so I wouldn't know the specifics.

Also, a Karthus ult killing spectators? Wtf?

No, there's a clear and objective problem with their comp: no chance late-game, and no way to force decisive victories mid-game unless they snowball really hard early on.

Karth ult usually means the spectator picks Sivir; but the spectator forgot to use spellshield, I think. They need to fix observer mode ASAP.

[ZeroNumerous]

Karth ult usually means the spectator picks Sivir; but the spectator forgot to use spellshield, I think. They need to fix observer mode ASAP.

I think it'd be really easy to just make the spectator immune to damage via an item that forces the GA revive mode for six hours or something equally ludicrous.

[Eldariel]

I think it'd be really easy to just make the spectator immune to damage via an item that forces the GA revive mode for six hours or something equally ludicrous.

The thing is, currently the spectator is just a 6th player as the spectator mode is broken. Against Karthus you're supposed to build Banshee but unfortunately that takes a while. The time the death happened the spectator was indeed not Sivir; this precaution was put into place since.

Another spec death was Gragas barrel. That was just random but the game was over again since the Nexus was already under attack with only one guy alive (that was the guy who ran to the fountain and was the cause of the barrel, btw).


The spectator mode itself was broken last patch and currently crashed the game. Apparently they're working on it for the next Tourney Server patch tho dunno anything more about the fix.

EDIT: Ugh, watching Hotshot's Anivia; he's so bad. Detonation timings on Flash Frost are off, late casts on Walls, poor comboes and space control, it's just...ugh.

[endoperez]

Might as well join the list, too... DreamingHeart on the Europe server.

Guess it's an opportunity to try out new ones.

What's with the EU-phobia here? :smallconfused:

I'm Endoperez on the EU servers.


I haven't played with any of the Playground guys yet, but I love following this thread, it's teaching me lots. Also, I just adore the quick build database Faulty started, thanks a lot for continuing that! :smallbiggrin:

Also, I've found out that it's very much worth it to try as many of each week's free champions as you can. Knowing your enemies' moves helps a lot.

[Arbitrarity]

EU "hate" is because most of us are on NA server, which means we can't play on EU server without smurfing and high ping.

Still a consideration though, since I could afford to have another smurf. I do like my runes though.

[Brother Oni]

EU "hate" is because most of us are on NA server, which means we can't play on EU server without smurfing and high ping.

The ping isn't that high - most of us Euros still do quite well even running at about 200-odd ping on the US server (well, I do at least).

Smurfing and finding EU people on Mumble are the greater problems in my opinion.

[Eldariel]

Basically, most players playing on US server sit on Mumble. Most EU players don't since it's pointless for us since the other EU players don't. Which is why most of the team games happen on the US server; the playground simply has more players on the US and most of the communication is based on the US server. Because the EU servers debuted later than the US servers, there are many EU players with only US accounts too; that's another problem. So...yeah.

[Arbitrarity]

Thinking of getting Karma for my next 3150. I see a lot of entertaining AP Karma shenanigans, and she seems like a solid support.

[Eldariel]

Thinking of getting Karma for my next 3150. I see a lot of entertaining AP Karma shenanigans, and she seems like a solid support.

She's amazing in 3v3 :smallbiggrin: Good in 5v5 too. Just make sure your team doesn't mistake you for a support; like Morgana, you're gonna suck monkey balls unless you get solo lane farm.

[Moonshadow]

LeBlanc <3 So much burst, so much CC~ Build pure glass cannon, take Flash, and you've got a triple escape mechanism.

Also, it's kinda ironic to have both Wicked LeBlanc and Nasus on the same team. inb4 obligatory MUST GET THOSE PUPPIES!

[Volatar]

Thinking of getting Karma for my next 3150. I see a lot of entertaining AP Karma shenanigans, and she seems like a solid support.

After I grab Kennen I was considering doing the very same thing :)

[Winthur]

Pick 30 runes at random

...with priority towards Attack Speed (preferrably on marks and/or quints), rest can be tanky (depending on your early vs late game needs)


assign 30 skill points randomly
9/0/21 seems to be most optimal for later game but makes your jungling a little slow so 16/0/14 and even 21/0/9 work well. 0/21/9 or other tanky variations make you untouchable in the jungle but slow.


Pick a creep camp at random.

Counting on the fact that starting at small golems will get you to level 6 the fastest while starting at blue will let you attempt a gank on an overextended lane with red buff autoattacks. You might as well start on an enemy camp like Wraiths and you won't be slowed down at all.

How can I be good with Warwick?

Be patient in teamfights, clear jungle fast, be very good at realizing which fights you can win and which you can not and, as with every jungle, develop map awareness to realize whose lanes are pushing hard and jump on that Swain the very second he makes a step too far away from his tower. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. And if you feel useless because you can't gank or something, ward. After you have Madred Razors, a blue buff, and a health potion or two for safety, you can make a dragon attempt on your own which is likely to work, and with Wriggle's you probably can't screw it up.

And your favourite situations are when you're approaching 5 low-health enemies while fed (and thus, heavily armored) and you proceed to murder them all because pretty much nobody gets away from Warwick once he's maxed his Blood Scent (which usually is your priority after you've maxed out your Hungering Strike) :smallcool:

[Winterwind]

Regarding all the suggestions that I should switch to the US server - no, I surely won't. All my RL friends have their accounts on EU, as do the friends of said friends; they surely won't be switching, so neither will I. :smallwink:

[Adumbration]

Regarding all the suggestions that I should switch to the US server - no, I surely won't. All my RL friends have their accounts on EU, as do the friends of said friends; they surely won't be switching, so neither will I. :smallwink:

I'm on the EU server, so if you ever want to hit up a game, feel free to poke me. Username Adumbration. :smallsmile:

[toasty]

Basically, most players playing on US server sit on Mumble. Most EU players don't since it's pointless for us since the other EU players don't. Which is why most of the team games happen on the US server; the playground simply has more players on the US and most of the communication is based on the US server. Because the EU servers debuted later than the US servers, there are many EU players with only US accounts too; that's another problem. So...yeah.

Nah, its more that the EU servers sucked for a long time and still kinda do sometimes so all the hoopy froods like Dog and Sirro hang with the Cool Kids. :smallbiggrin:

(Seriously: play wherever. We have good players on the US servers, but there are good players elsewhere. I'm sure you EU guys can organize yourself just fine).

[Dogmantra]

Thinking of getting Karma for my next 3150. I see a lot of entertaining AP Karma shenanigans, and she seems like a solid support.
You can also have fun with entertaining AD Karma shenanigans too.


She's amazing in 3v3 :smallbiggrin: Good in 5v5 too. Just make sure your team doesn't mistake you for a support; like Morgana, you're gonna suck monkey balls unless you get solo lane farm.
Or you could duo lane then pretend you're Singed and go split pushing for ten minutes in unoccupied lanes, being both a pest to your opponents and farming well. That is a major reason why she's considered not a great support though, she's "too dependent on items" for a support character.


all the hoopy froods like Dog and Sirro hang with the Cool Kids. :smallbiggrin:

Blame Faulty.

[Faulty]

Blame Faulty.

I'm just magnetically sexy.

[Dogmantra]

I'm just magnetically sexy.

The whole world's a north pole don't you know it baby.

PHYSICS BURN!

[Faulty]

The whole world's a north pole don't you know it baby.

PHYSICS BURN!

I don't get it because science confuses me.

[Dogmantra]

You're magnetically sexy except the entire world is repelled from you because their north poles are facing your north pole. Sheesh.

[Neftren]

I've been playing Sona again recently. Quite fun. Quite deadly, as Arb can attest... :smallcool:

[Silverraptor]

I don't get it because science confuses me.

If the laws of physics no longer apply in your reality, God help you.:smalltongue:

[Spartacus]

Hey look, a less goofy looking Caitlyn (http://forum.leaguecraft.com/index.php?/topic/31939-new-chinese-art-finally-out-irelia-cait-cassiopeia-and-lots-more/)(among other things)!

[Math_Mage]

Hey look, a less goofy looking Caitlyn (http://forum.leaguecraft.com/index.php?/topic/31939-new-chinese-art-finally-out-irelia-cait-cassiopeia-and-lots-more/)(among other things)!

The Atlantis Cass is going straight into Serp's image directory, 100%. :smalltongue:

[Zen Master]

Hmm ... a question: Would any sane man ever go for CDR on Shen? Runes, masteries, gear - all that ...?!

[Arcanoi]

Hey look, a less goofy looking Caitlyn (http://forum.leaguecraft.com/index.php?/topic/31939-new-chinese-art-finally-out-irelia-cait-cassiopeia-and-lots-more/)(among other things)!

There is a very strange angle (That, or that belt corset has actually caused skeletal deformation) going on with Caitlyn's spine in that pic. Is seems like the belt is the only thing holding her together.

[Eldariel]

Or you could duo lane then pretend you're Singed and go split pushing for ten minutes in unoccupied lanes, being both a pest to your opponents and farming well. That is a major reason why she's considered not a great support though, she's "too dependent on items" for a support character.

That's the thing with her, she can be considered support by champion abilities but she needs a carry's farm; she's a support carry like Morgana, Zilean (though he can pull Support role off too) & co. The kind of champion you don't slam in the duolane 'cause she wouldn't be allowed to get any farm there; more like a solo mid or so. Good news is that she does enough damage while supporting to make it all work out. Indeed, she's quite beastly far as damage, shieldz and healz go.

[Inhuman Bot]

Hey look, a less goofy looking Caitlyn (http://forum.leaguecraft.com/index.php?/topic/31939-new-chinese-art-finally-out-irelia-cait-cassiopeia-and-lots-more/)(among other things)!

You ARE ****ting me when you say that, right?

[Math_Mage]

Hmm ... a question: Would any sane man ever go for CDR on Shen? Runes, masteries, gear - all that ...?!

Runes, maybe; masteries will usually be 0/21/9 though you could get 3% CDR from 9/21/0; Randuin's Omen is a good item for Shen that has CDR on it, and maybe Spirit Visage, but Frozen Heart seems inefficient and that would be your go-to item were you building CDR. Anyway, Shen is limited by energy, so CDR isn't necessarily going to help you very much.