Simple Fix for the Vow of Poverty

[Talya]

This is not really intended as a homebrew, but an example of some things one could do that would make Vow of Poverty, as it is now (excusing the silly oversights like spellbooks and holy symbols) something that almost every class could play without being left in the dust. None of this changes the core VOP abilities. All you need to do, is add a few feats.

For example:

Celestial Wings [exalted]
Prerequisite: something something something
Benefit: You may grow wings as a free action. These angelic, feathered wings allow flight at double your land speed, with good maneuverability. You may use these wings for a total of X minutes/character level per day. This need not be consecutive, you my dismiss the wings as a free action and save the remaining time until needed again.

Holy Glory [exalted]
Prerequisite: something something something
Benefit: You may add a +1 inherent bonus to each of two different ability scores. This bonus stacks with any inherent bonus applied from any other source, up to a maximum of +5.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. While its effects can stack, no one ability can have ore than a +5 inherent bonus.

Divine Offensive [exalted]
Prerequisite: exalted strike +2, sanctified martial strike or ki strike or natural attack, something
Benefit: Your exalted strike enhancement bonus is doubled. In addition, you may substitute any amount of your exalted strike enhancement bonus for special weapon features (as for magic weapons) instead of your exalted strike bonus. You must maintain at least a +1 exalted strike bonus at all times, and your exalted strike bonus cannot exceed +5 (though can be up to +10 with special properties.)

Divine Defensive [Exalted]
Prerequisite: something something something
Benefit: You gain character level/4 worth of points that may be spent on special properties of armor.

Etc. etc. etc.

It seems to me vow of poverty grants a lot of feats that don't get used. More feats that fill the niches VOP misses fix all its issues, don't you think?

[Geigan]

Yeah they'll do for mid optimization campaigns. Still not quite as good as WBL, but you seem to favor a less magicmart approach so I think it'll stack up fine in a campaign that restricts magic item acquirement.

It does eliminate some of the problems, but I'm sure there're some things you haven't thought of. May we make suggestions?

[Divide by Zero]

You still don't have the short-term flexibility of magic items, but it'd at least make it viable for more classes.

[Talya]

May we make suggestions?

No, I posted here because I didn't want input. :smallbiggrin:

Please, go ahead. :smallsmile:

[Draz74]

This is not really intended as a homebrew, but an example of some things one could do that would make Vow of Poverty, as it is now (excusing the silly oversights like spellbooks and holy symbols) something that almost every class could play without being left in the dust. None of this changes the core VOP abilities. All you need to do, is add a few feats.
Good concept.


Celestial Wings [exalted]
Prerequisite: something something something
Benefit: You may grow wings as a free action. These angelic, feathered wings allow flight at double your land speed, with good maneuverability. You may use these wings for a total of X minutes/character level per day. This need not be consecutive, you my dismiss the wings as a free action and save the remaining time until needed again.
The "something something something" seems rather vital to me here :smalltongue:

I also feel like it would be appropriate for the flight to become constant at some point -- either at a high character level (14ish?) or by taking an additional Exalted Feat.


Holy Glory [exalted]
Prerequisite: something something something
Benefit: You may add a +1 inherent bonus to each of two different ability scores. This bonus stacks with any inherent bonus applied from any other source, up to a maximum of +5.

Special: You may take this feat multiple times. While its effects can stack, no one ability can have ore than a +5 inherent bonus.
Too weak.

One idea to fix it would be ...

VoP characters have nothing preventing them from having Wish cast on them. It's just not generally a practical option, because casters don't tend to have enough XP on hand to cast Wish five times in quick succession, so everybody uses Tomes instead. But what if this feat simply made inherent bonuses stack (up to +5) on the character that takes it, regardless of the time span in between gaining those inherent bonuses? That should make Wish viable instead of Tomes.

If that's too weak by itself, you could still have the feat grant +1 [inherent] to two scores, in addition to the effect I've recommended. Just don't let the feat be taken multiple times or stack. (And give it a prerequisite that restricts it to high-level play.)

[Grendus]

Little Miracles [Exalted]
Prerequisite: Vow of Poverty, 8 ranks in either Use Magic Device or Spellcraft
Every time you donate your share of the party wealth to charity, you can select a number of spells indicated on the table below. These spells must be taken from the Wizard/Sorcerer, Cleric, or Druid spell lists and should be spells that the character is familiar with. Casting one of these spells uses up the spell slot similar to if a prepared spellcaster cast one of his spells, however these spells do not go away after a period of rest, they remain until the next time the exalted character has a chance to donate his share of wealth to the poor. Treat the spells caster level as the minimum spell level required to cast the spell.



Note: I have no idea of the average load out of a higher level character, but the idea would be to allow characters with the VoP feat to pick up one time use items similar to the wands and scrolls that non-exalted characters use.

[ShriekingDrake]

Here are some exalted feats we've been using in one of our games. I don't know that it addresses the specific concerns you've raised here, but we've enjoyed them.


Exalted Bond [Exalted]
Your bond with your animal companion is deeply enhanced by grace.
Prerequisites: Vow of Poverty feat; animal companion class ability
Benefit: Add up to four to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that your animal companion receives (see page 36 of the Player’s Handbook). This bonus does not stack with the Natural Bond feat and it can never make your effective druid level exceed your character level.

Exalted Knowledge [Exalted]
Your exalted nature gives you access to intuitive knowledge.
Prerequisites: Gift of Discernment feat; Intuitive Knowledge, Nymph’s Kiss feat
Benefit: You gain six ranks in all knowledge skills, though you may not exceed your maximum skill ranks for any skill.
Note: this does not stack, but replaces Intuitive Knowledge.

Intuitive Defense [Exalted]
Your sanctity bolsters your ability to defend yourself.
Prerequisites: Intuitive Attack feat; Vow of Poverty feat
Benefit: You add your wisdom modifier to your armor class. This armor class bonus applies even when you are flat-footed and against touch attacks. You lose these bonuses when you are immobilized or helpless, or if you carry a medium or heavy load. This feat does not stack with a monk’s or ninja’s “AC bonus” extraordinary ability.

Intuitive Knowledge [Exalted]
Your exalted nature gives you access to intuitive knowledge.
Prerequisites: Gift of Discernment feat; Nymph’s Kiss feat
Benefit: You gain three ranks in all knowledge skills, though you may not exceed your maximum skill ranks for any skill.

Sainted Spellbond [Exalted]
Through the grace of your sanctity, you are more tightly bonded to your animal companion, familiar, or mount.
Prerequisites: Sacred Vow; Share Spells class ability; Saint template
Benefit: You may Share Spells with any animal companion, familiar, or mount with which you can Share Spells at a range of up to one mile.
Special: This feat may be taken one time each for a bond with an animal companion, a familiar, and a mount.

[Geigan]

Holy Protection[Exalted]
Your faith comes even before the call of the grave.
Prerequisite: Vow of Poverty, character level 9th
Benefit: You gain immunity to energy drain and death effects.

Touch of Sanctity[Exalted]
A body is one's own temple and should not be desecrated.
Prerequisite:Vow of Poverty, Hands of a Healer, Lay on Hands class ability
Benefit: You may trade points of healing form your Lay on Hands class feature to heal ability damage. When you use your Lay on hands ability you may instead sacrifice points of healing to heal ability damage instead. You heal ability damage to any one ability score, 1 point healed for every 5 points of healing sacrificed. You may not heal hit points at the same time you heal ability damage with your Lay on Hands.

[PollyOliver]

For celestial wings, I'd make the pre-requisite vow of poverty or vow of poverty and 5 HD. If the former, make the wings function like raptoran/dragonborn wings--that is, gliding until level 5, flying afterward. At a certain level, maybe 10 or 15, make the flight unrestricted.

Divine offensive is pretty good, I think, since the amount of strike bonus limits it anyway.

Divine defensive doesn't really need a pre-req other than VoP I think, since your character level caps the benefit anyway. Maybe make it deflection bonus +1, though, just to make sure you aren't getting armor properties before everyone else? I dunno.

[FMArthur]

When I was DMing a series of one-offs in Ottawa, I gave out a magic item to one of players that was just:


Your HD times per day, as a free action, you can activate this item and grow feathery-white wings of energy. When they are active, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability. In addition, you can use them to fly your speed as a swift action. They last until the start of your next turn, at which point you can choose to expend another daily usage to continue flying or deactivate them.

They immediately handed it over to the Fighter, who was finding it hard to be useful because of his inability to move and full attack, and his inability to fly with the rest of the party (Cleric, Wizard, Paladin w/flying mount). This one item was enough to make him a dominant melee threat.

Anyway, the takeaway here was that melee benefits enormously from free movement and flight. It has basically infinite value when the checkboxes for relevancy start with [ ] has flight, [ ] can get to enemy to even contribute to battle against truly dangerous foes. VoP needs to give both of those to be worth it.

[Mephibosheth]

I like this idea. Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164659) another thread along similar lines, with a number of other feats.

[Forbiddenwar]

Too weak. RE: Holy Glory.


Really? I thought it was pretty strong. VoP already gives a +8 to 1 ability, a +6 to another, a +4 to another and a +2 to a fourth
and this feat (beacuse it is exalted and can be taken more than once and stacks) can result in a+5 to the last 2 abilities. Such a character built in that way can have all their abilities in the high 20 low 30's. or 1 ability in the 40's

Sounded good to me

[Sucrose]

Really? I thought it was pretty strong. VoP already gives a +8 to 1 ability, a +6 to another, a +4 to another and a +2 to a fourth
and this feat (beacuse it is exalted and can be taken more than once and stacks) can result in a+5 to the last 2 abilities. Such a character built in that way can have all their abilities in the high 20 low 30's. or 1 ability in the 40's

Sounded good to me

Look at it this way: Weapon Focus is generally regarded as a waste of a feat even for a Fighter. A +1 bonus to your to-hit stat has a 50/50 shot of providing essentially the same effect as Weapon Focus. It's better than nothing, but it's still not the sort of thing that would allow a VoP Fighter to work, really.

[NineThePuma]

Make the +1 inherent bonus instead be

"add two points to your ability scores, as the ability gain you get 1/4 levels.

Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Its effects stack. No ability score can be boosted by this feat by more than 5 points."?

[dspeyer]

Magic of the Saints, Lesser [Exalted]
You can tie your magical essence to that of righteous spellcasters of ages past, and they provide you with a bit of power. You gain one spell slot. It must be prepared by prayer at dawn like a cleric, but can be drawn from any class list. The level of the slot is one fourth your spellcraft ranks rounded down. Also, spellcraft is now a class skill for you, regardless of class.
You can take this feat up to three times, each time gaining another spell slot.

Magic of the Saints, Greater [Exalted]
Prerequisites: Ability to cast 2nd level spells
You can tie your magical talent to that of righteous spellcasters of ages past, and they provide you with a bit of knowledge. Once per day, as a free action, you can replace a prepared spell or open spell slot with a new spell from your class list. The spell cannot be of the highest level you can cast.
You can take this feat up to three times, each time gaining an additional use per day.