Another VoP

[Fisticuffs]

So I decided to make the campaign that I'm running interesting by having each player receive Vow of Poverty as a bonus feat. I ran through it with the players and they're okay with it. The campaign's only going to go to mid-level so I'm not too concerned plus I'm giving them full HP per HD. The fluff is that they're all from some monastery and they're following a warband and cleaning up the mess of its wake. My question for the playground is how do you guys think I should handle the loot, they're supposed be taking the armor/weapons and using them to empower the people that they're liberating but they can't take anything. I already have an idea of what I want to do but I was curious of you guys' opinions.

[Divide by Zero]

As I understand it, they can carry the items as long as they don't use them.

Besides, you're the DM. Just ignore/houserule it if there's a problem.

[Geigan]

Give them separate bonuses. Effects that modify their exalted strike, flight would certainly be a big one, inherent bonuses, and perhaps SLAs.

Be creative and have their righteous deeds grant them boons based on their deeds. Example: Besting an evil dragon grants a boon of an evocation SLA with that energy type, giving one self up to torture to allow others to avoid it mint be appropriate for a con bonus, helping slaves sneak away might grant a boon from a goodhearted trickster god appropriate for sneaking.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

You know, I don't quite understand why Vow of Poverty prevents you from using items. Obviously "borrowing" shenanigans shouldn't be allowed and you can't keep items, but in the span of time between acquiring an item and when you can reasonably donate it to charity, there's no reason not to use it. You're a beggar, not a Forsaker.

Likewise, if your comrades are down, using their gear to get them out of the situation alive is perfectly reasonable as long as you return it afterwards.

Then again, I still don't understand what half of that damned book has to do with being Good in the first place.

[myancey]

You know, I don't quite understand why Vow of Poverty prevents you from using items. Obviously "borrowing" shenanigans shouldn't be allowed and you can't keep items, but in the span of time between acquiring an item and when you can reasonably donate it to charity, there's no reason not to use it. You're a beggar, not a Forsaker.

Likewise, if your comrades are down, using their gear to get them out of the situation alive is perfectly reasonable as long as you return it afterwards.

Then again, I still don't understand what half of that damned book has to do with being Good in the first place.

VoP is potentially the single most powerful feat in the game. It has to come with some consequences. A lot of people on the forums hate this feat..but it really comes down to how you build the character. Either way, if you gave the ability for players to 'use items' on the way back to the bazaar...it would have endless opportunities of abuse. It's unfortunate..but D&D has to be structured this way because loopholes are obviously exploited.

[Fisticuffs]

Let me rephrase what it is that I'm asking, if you free the peasants and kill the bad guys how do you get the bad guys' stuff back to the peasants so they can defend themselves? I already am handling it, I was just curious of any other creative ways people would handle the whole "getting the VoP party to get stuff back to town for the poor people to use".



You're a beggar, not a Forsaker.

Quite the opposite actually.

[Veyr]

VoP is potentially the single most powerful feat in the game.
It is in no way any such thing. The things you can do with, say, Leadership, are far more powerful.

[TroubleBrewing]

It is in no way any such thing.

This.


The things you can do with, say, Leadership, are far more powerful.

Or, say, every non-trash feat ever.

There are three or four VoP threads raging currently. It must be Vopday. (Known in some circles as Thursday. Admittedly, it's not as catchy as Monkday.)

[Jack_Simth]

So I decided to make the campaign that I'm running interesting by having each player receive Vow of Poverty as a bonus feat. I ran through it with the players and they're okay with it. The campaign's only going to go to mid-level so I'm not too concerned plus I'm giving them full HP per HD. The fluff is that they're all from some monastery and they're following a warband and cleaning up the mess of its wake. My question for the playground is how do you guys think I should handle the loot, they're supposed be taking the armor/weapons and using them to empower the people that they're liberating but they can't take anything. I already have an idea of what I want to do but I was curious of you guys' opinions.
Stop bothering to roll loot? Seriously. I mean - it's all going to charity. Unless you have specific reason to track what, specifically, is going to the charity-of-choice (e.g., the charitable organization is corrupt, they're arming a revolt, or something of that nature), it doesn't matter, at it won't affect the game. Maybe keep track of the weight of the loot (as they are carrying it, after all), but otherwise? It's rather pointless to worry about.

[Veyr]

Or, say, every non-trash feat ever.
Well, I believe he meant that, sans drawbacks, it would be, hence the need for drawbacks. And it would be a damn good feat, if it weren't for the no-items bit. Sure, most Exalted feats are crap, but you only need to find 2 worth taking and it would pay for itself, plus you get a ton of ability score bonuses and free defenses. It would do a great deal for a single feat.

Just, ya know, not as much as Leadership could potentially do.

[MeeposFire]

It is in no way any such thing. The things you can do with, say, Leadership, are far more powerful.

I hate to say it but this is so true. Heck you could give everybody VoP for free, eliminate the fluff about not being able to use items, reduce the WBL to account for the VoP benefits and I don't think it would be a problem (and it could make you just give out interesting items rather than stuff just to fill out the "math " of the game like ability boosters).

Another option is to open up the exalted feats to include shape soulmeld and the open chakra feats (with a houserule for full meldshaping level rather than half). This will let your players customize more and allow them access to things like flying, ghost touch, mental protections , and other stuff they would otherwise not have access to.

[Veyr]

I hate to say it but this is so true. Heck you could give everybody VoP for free, eliminate the fluff about not being able to use items, reduce the WBL to account for the VoP benefits and I don't think it would be a problem (and it could make you just give out interesting items rather than stuff just to fill out the "math " of the game like ability boosters).
I know a DM who did free VoP, still could use items, no bonus feats, and it worked out great.

[MeeposFire]

I know a DM who did free VoP, still could use items, no bonus feats, and it worked out great.

I had a hunch that would be the case. There are a few abilities you may consider removing in this situation but for the most part this should work fine since most items won't stack with VoP anyway.

[graeylin]

Your VOP PC's can still collect the gear from the fallen, and carry it/take it back to the city/church/charity/market/etc., to be turned in.

The VOW doesn't say you can't touch/handle items, it says you can't possess them. When the collection plate is passed in church, and reaches the end of the pew, a person takes it, and carries it to the next pew, and hands it off. That person doesn't "own" or "possess" the money in the plate, despite it being technically in his possession for a few seconds. The money belongs to the church, and the agents of the church are simply transporting it.

So too, with your VOP PC's. the weapons and armor aren't possessed by them, just in their possession temporarily. THey have to be able to get it to the proper authorities. How soon, what they do with it along the way, etc. are all up to you as the DM to judge.

[ShriekingDrake]

Here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19566734/Vow_of_Poverty--possessing_and_using) is an discussion I liked and found useful about VoP.

[Etrivar]

one good way to improve VoP is to yank the weapon ability chart off of the soul-knife and allow the characters to enhance whatever weapon they wield. just make sure they keep with the exalted theme (bane abilities should be against evil outsiders or undead, etc).