[3.P] Deciding between two Warblades...

[N. Jolly]

Hey all, I'm working on a campaign with a friend of mine, and right now I just hit level five and I'm working on what I want to do with my char.

I'm trying to decide between taking my Warblade into Master of Nine, or going off for two levels to Ur Priest and taking the Martial Study/Stance to get the required D. Spirit to take RKV. I'm actually using the variant for Ur Priest where you pull your power from a dead god (We're using the PF Campaign Setting, and I worship the setting's dead god, so I think it'd be cool to actually pull power form him). Both would fit my character fluff wise, but I'm kind of debating a lot how I'd like to take this guy. I don't know if the character will hit levels high enough for me to enjoy either build fully though, so I guess I'm trying to get some idea of how to build my character.

My DM's pretty cool about letting us rebuild to fit story, so feat wise it's all good no matter what I do, although I do have to stay a Warblade, so please don't suggest I just rebuild a Crusader.

[GreyMantle]

Just as an aside, you do realize that Urpriest is probably the most broken prestige class not named Beholder Mage, evar, right?

[Darrin]

Just as an aside, you do realize that Urpriest is probably the most broken prestige class not named Beholder Mage, evar, right?

The Planar Shepherd would like a word with you...

Master of Nine is very tempting but due to the "worthless feat tax" it's a bit of a trap. Warblades need six feats to get in, and most of which you'll hardly ever use. If you really need a few maneuvers/stances from a different discipline, you'll be much better off sticking with Warblade 20 and picking up what you need via Martial Study/Stance.

There are a few ways to mitigate the feat tax, though... Warblade can get Improved Initiative and Blind-Fight via their bonus feats at 5th and 9th level. You can also get both of those feats with a cleric/cloistered cleric dip (via Time domain and Darkness/Shadow domain). A 1-level dip into the Unarmed Swordsage variant can get you Improved Unarmed Strike and a maneuver from a sixth discipline. A 1- or 2-level dip into monk can get you IUS and a couple other feats, particularly if you use variant fighting styles from UA or the martial monk variant from Dragon #310. A dip into Crusader can get you a Devoted Spirit maneuver/stance (and tower shield -> extreme shield swap).

I think I prefer the Warblade/Ur-Priest/RKV build, though... greatsword + Aura of Chaos is oodles of awesomesauce. You might want to dip at least one level of Crusader to pick up Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill. Otherwise, try to get your hands on the Education feat (Eberron Campaign Setting), or one level of Hexblade/Duskblade + Knowledge Devotion might work. Your maneuver selection is much more limited, but the Tier 1 spellcasting + Divine Impetus/Recovery more than makes up for it.

[Cog]

Just as an aside, you do realize that Urpriest is probably the most broken prestige class not named Beholder Mage, evar, right?
Or Incantatrix, or Dweomerkeeper, or...

Don't get me wrong - it is strong. It basically works like an inverted prestige class, though; it gets you vanilla divine casting in fewer levels so that you can put something interesting on either side of it or use a slow-advancing PrC with it and not lose 9ths, but at most character levels a regular cleric will still have better spell access than an Ur-Priest.

[Kaje]

9th level spells at level 14 is pretty sweet.

[Veyr]

Yeah, Ur-Priests are possibly better than Clerics at levels 13-16 (the levels where they're ahead in spell level), but that's a pretty small window, and they are decidedly weaker at all other levels.

Of course, you get to do other things with your build that a Cleric couldn't do, but outside of the above level-range, those sorts of options are actually reasonably well-balanced (with Cleric, which is to say not terribly well-balanced at all, but whatever).

[Lateral]

Ur-Vindicator is a very powerful build- you can get 9th level spells and maneuvers, plus all the goodness of the RKV. Mo9 is much weaker, and not that great on a Warblade. I'd go with the first, unless you're trying to keep your power level down or need to be Good.

[Draz74]

Ur-Priest is of course the more potentially powerful option (assuming your DM doesn't mind you taking RKV when you don't worship Wee Jas). But personally, I die a little inside when I see most any Ur-Priest build. Yuck.

I love me some Master of Nine, on the other hand. That being said, the feat requirements are nasty if you have to stay pure Warblade.

The way to get into Mo9 as a Warblade is:

Unarmed Swordsage 1 / Fighter 1 / Warblade 9+

The Swordsage level gives you Improved Unarmed Strike, and also some extra nice maneuvers. (Pick up something from Desert Wind, even if you'll never use it, just so you can take Desert Wind Dodge instead of regular Dodge. If you take the Swordsage level at Level 1, which I recommend since it gets you a lot of skill points, it can still get you some lovely maneuvers that you wouldn't want to spend a Readied slot on as a Warblade, but you'll be glad to have 1/encounter. Things like Moment of Perfect Mind, Charging Minotaur, Counter Charge, and Mighty Throw. These are also handy for prerequisites.)

The Fighter level gets you a bonus feat, and also proficiency with bows. Hurray!

Together, these dips mean you'll only lose one initiator level as a Warblade, and you'll still end up with +17 or +18 BAB (depending on whether Fractional is allowed).

Warblade 5 and Warblade 9 give you Improved Initiative and Blind-Fight.

The payoff for all this effort? Well, here's the big one: the Warblade's balancing factor is that, although he has a good recovery mechanic and excellent maneuver selection, he can't Ready very many maneuvers. Master of Nine solves that problem in a big hurry. Hello, 10 Readied Maneuvers (plus four from Swordsage)!

Also, there's a few gems you'll be able to pick up from non-Warblade disciplines. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to get the Devoted Spirit prerequisites necessary for Strike of Righteous Vitality, at least without spending feats or items on it. But what you should be able to get are the two high-level gems of the Setting Sun discipline:

Shifting Defense: you do have Combat Reflexes, right? Good. Now anytime that dragon starts to full attack you, step away after one attack and laugh at it.

Fool's Strike: just like Wall of Blades, which is a classic ... except you make your attacker hit themselves with their own attack. Continue laughing.

Oh yeah, and Shadow Jaunt. Can't complain about that one ... and there's not even any prereqs.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Honestly, with RKV, I would just use Crusader instead of Warblade. Coupled with the fact that your swift actions will probably be going towards spells and the like, even with RKV's bonuses, I'd rather not have to worry about blowing one of them to refresh maneuvers.

[navar100]

Master of Nine is a good choice for Warblades. Warblades ready a small number of maneuvers. Master Of Nine gives you 5 more to ready. That is a big deal. Knowing a lot of maneuvers means nothing if you can't ready them. The BAB hit is a sting but not too bad. What does hurt is the HD hit. Going from d12 to d8 for 5 levels is significant. Iron Heart Endurace will help if you need it, but as a Master of Nine you can pick up a healing strike or two from Devoted Spirit. Still, you could just lump it and not care you're only getting d8 HD.

The feat prerequisites are not hurting. Adaptive Style does help Warblades. You know a lot more maneuvers than you can ready. The feat allows you to ready what you couldn't if you really need them. This allows you to know maneuvers you always want to use instead of only having back ups you don't ready until you know you absolutely need them.

Dodge gets a bad rap. It's the weakest of the prerequisites but useful when you fight only one opponent. Call this one the Feat Tax most Prestige Classes require.

Blind-Fight is an excellent feat. It sucks to attack with a strike and miss because of concealment. This feat gives you another chance.

Improved Initiative is popular for everyone.

Improved Unarmed Strike is situational. All of your strikes work with an unarmed strike. You can punch your opponent and still do +100 damage with Strike of Perfect Clarity. You don't become useless if you are disarmed. If you have to peace-bond your weapon in a town, you can react immediately to a fight instead of taking time to unbond. If your hand/arms are full because you need to carry something/one, you can kick your strikes. (Thinks back to when I had to do this in one fight. :smallsmile: )