Swift actions in combination

[lrellok]

I will not immediately state what this is about, it would go off topic into a build discussion. My question is, how many and what type of actions can a character take in the same round as a swift action. Is it possible (with no major build revisions) to take a
standard action+move action+free action+swift action

all in the same player round?

Yes, i will explain the build after i get some feedback.

[NineThePuma]

That is completely legit, and is the standard RAW.

[Divide by Zero]

I will not immediately state what this is about, it would go off topic into a build discussion. My question is, how many and what type of actions can a character take in the same round as a swift action. Is it possible (with no major build revisions) to take a
standard action+move action+free action+swift action

all in the same player round?

Yes, i will explain the build after i get some feedback.

You get one swift or immediate action (immediate actions on turns other than your own count against your next turn), either one standard and one move, two move, or one full-round, and any number of free actions. Each of those three groups are completely independent of each other.

[lrellok]

OK ty.

As to the build, its for a BBEG,
Kobold Wizard 3 Master specialist (conjuratoin) 10, alienist 2, Demonologist 6

The campaign uses a spell point system for magic (I have just had way to many issues with people ad-libing their spell lists) and due to a world storyline, kobolds have a special summon list only they can use with the alienist ability (and can never be used by PC's).

The idea is
-Quicken Summon (Diabloist leaves this only a -1 to spell level)
-Swift Conjuration of a orb or other single action conjuration spell (from Master Specialists major conjuration ability)
- Standard Cast of something else (possibly invisibility or some other spell to conceal movement)
-move, rinse, repeat

The idea is for the BBEG to deluge the battlefeild with summons, then retreat when its spell points get low.

oh, and the custom Alienist summon list, if anyone is interested

NOTE; becouse of where the creatures have been (in the prison of a far spawn god) they are nearly all chaotic evil

Summon1
Psudonatural Badger
Psudonatural Dire rat
Psudonatural Medium Centipede
Psudonatural Small Scorpion
Spell Warped Raven
Spell Warped Small Viper
Spell Warped Small Spider

Summon2
Half Farspawn Giant Bee
Spell Warped Bombadier beatle
Half Farspawn Medium Spider
Psudonatural Medium Scorpion
Psudonatural Large Centipede
Psudonatural medium Viper


summon3
Necrosis Carnex NE MM4 pp104
Rune Hound NE MM3 pp145
Grell NE MM2 pp121
Otyugh N MM PP 204
Spell Warped Hippogriff
Half Farspawn huge Centipede
Spell Warped Corcodile
Psudonatural large viper

Summon 4
Vivisector LE MM5 pp 200
Zern Blade Thrall NE MM4 pp 198
Wyste N MM2 pp 200
Gibbering Mouther N MM pp 126
Quadraphon CE MM3 pp 129
Spawn of Kyuss CE MM2 pp 168
½ Farspawn Otyugh CE
Half Farspawn Dire Bat
Spell Warped Large Spider

Summon 5
Mage Ripper Swarm CN MM4 pp96
Quanlos N MM4 pp122
Guath Beholder LE MM pp26
Zern NE MM4 pp195
Rot Reaver CE MM3 pp 142
Half Far Spawn Giant Wasp
Spell Warped Griffon
Psudonatural Deinonychus
Spell Warped Dire Boar
Psudonatural Giant Crocadile

Summon 6
Chaos Beast CN MM pp 33
Zern Arcanovor LE MM4 pp 197
Cildabrin NE LoM pp 141
Stonesinger CE MM3 pp168
Chull CE MM pp 35
Umber Hulk CE MM pp 249
Half Far Spawn Giant Stag Beatle
Half Far Spawn Gargantuan Centipeed
Half Far Spawn Huge Spider
Spell Warped Megaraptor

Summon 7
Dharculus N Planar pp112
Prismatic roper N MM3 pp 141
Trilloch CN MM3 pp 176
Yrthak N MM pp 262
Lifeleach otyugh CE MM3 pp 119
Hound of Gloom CE LoM pp 153
Spell Warped Ankylosuarus
Spell Warped Allosuarus
Half Farspawn Huge Scorpion

Summon 8
Shrieking terror NE MM3 pp 155
Balhannoth CE MM4 pp 15
Avolaki CE MM2 pp 28
Deep Spawn CE LE pp 166
Beast of Malar CE Mon pp 20

Summon 9
Necrothane CE MM3 pp 143
Giant Psurlon CE LoM pp 165
Gulguthydra CE Mon pp 59
Ocularon CE FF pp 132
Zuegalak CE LoM pp 171

[Greenish]

Quickened Spell is a swift action to cast.

[Divide by Zero]

PHBII changed Quicken Spell to a swift action. See the sidebar on page 4.

Edit: cursed ninjas.

[dextercorvia]

I don't believe it was PHBII. They did it as soon as they designated the new action types, which was prior to the Spell Compendium, which in turn, predated PHBII.

[Divide by Zero]

I don't believe it was PHBII. They did it as soon as they designated the new action types, which was prior to the Spell Compendium, which in turn, predated PHBII.

May have been before that, but that was the only reference I could find.

Regardless, Quicken was clearly intended as a swift action (due to the 1/round limitation), but swift actions didn't exist when 3.5 was first released.

[Forged Fury]

Complete Arcane, p.86 in the sidebar is the earliest I can find.

[Curmudgeon]

Miniatures Handbook (2003 October) preceded Complete Arcane (2004 November) appreciably.

[IthroZada]

Considering how people can name books, pages, sidebars, and order of precedence in publishing so readily, which I have done myself a few times, I have to wonder if we tabletop players are actually closet bureaucrats.

[NineThePuma]

No. We aren't. For implying such, come fill out form seventeen-bee-31-two-C.

Not to be confused with 17B-thirty-one-2-cee.

[myancey]

Now, spells of 'Celerity' do exist, correct? So technically you could use those to obtain extra actions...provided I'm not making everything up.

You can even make a wondrous item of Celerity using the rules in Hypertext.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

To limit player use, I'd make it have a class and alignment restriction. Maybe even a skill limitation. Then just have it be usable a number of times per day. If its created as 'use-activated', it won't need anything other than a mental free action to use. Yay.

[Divide by Zero]

Now, spells of 'Celerity' do exist, correct? So technically you could use those to obtain extra actions...provided I'm not making everything up.

You can even make a wondrous item of Celerity using the rules in Hypertext.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

To limit player use, I'd make it have a class and alignment restriction. Maybe even a skill limitation. Then just have it be usable a number of times per day. If its created as 'use-activated', it won't need anything other than a mental free action to use. Yay.

Celerity takes an immediate action to cast, so you can only use it once per turn. Also, I'm pretty sure that's not what "use-activated" means.

[myancey]

Celerity takes an immediate action to cast, so you can only use it once per turn. Also, I'm pretty sure that's not what "use-activated" means.

To quote a bit from hypertext:

Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#useActivated

I used bold on the sections of the text I felt would apply, but I may be misunderstanding the wording. I've done that before. :smallconfused:

As for the immediate action part--I would still argue it being beneficial because since he is giving up his swift action, he would be gaining a standard or move...depending on which celerity he uses. Then he wouldn't have to waste spell slots on 'quicken'.

[Divide by Zero]

As for the immediate action part--I would still argue it being beneficial because since he is giving up his swift action, he would be gaining a standard or move...depending on which celerity he uses. Then he wouldn't have to waste spell slots on 'quicken'.

Yes, that's why it's considered an incredibly powerful spell. But keep in mind that it dazes you on your next turn, so unless you have a means of avoiding that, it doesn't actually save actions.

As for the quoted text, that refers to using it as part of another action, like a sword that casts a particular spell whenever you attack with it.

[NineThePuma]

... I create a Gnomish Quickblade that casts Truestrike when I draw it!

Then, I further enhance it to cast Wraithstrike when I draw it!

=D

[myancey]

Yes, that's why it's considered an incredibly powerful spell. But keep in mind that it dazes you on your next turn, so unless you have a means of avoiding that, it doesn't actually save actions.

That's true. But I'm sure there is an easy fix for daze out there. Nevertheless, valid point. I forgot to mention that particular aspect of the spell. I guess he could make the item also give him daze immunity...not sure with what though.


As for the quoted text, that refers to using it as part of another action, like a sword that casts a particular spell whenever you attack with it.

That makes sense. Sadly..it'll kill an item I'm currently designing..but back on topic...would it be possible then for him to create some type of 'rod' that gives him a +1 caster level on (some spell) as well as daze immunity and then celerity on a cast?

So item would look like:
+1 Caster level on fireballs
Daze immunity when held
Celerity as a use-activated.

Then this DM would have a cool item that'd work well for his character and allow him tons and tons of actions.

[Greenish]

You have to use the item to activate a use activated effect. What you describe would be Command [Mental] activation.

Also, even if using the item was a free action, you can't do it if it's not your turn.

[The Glyphstone]

At that point, why not just giving him an Amulet of Winning?

Amulet of Winning
Benefit: As a free action, the character wearing this item wins.

Because that is basically what infinite actions would do.

[myancey]

At that point, why not just giving him an Amulet of Winning?

Amulet of Winning
Benefit: As a free action, the character wearing this item wins.

Because that is basically what infinite actions would do.

Touché sir, touché.

As a side note, if you could persuade my current DM to gift me one of those.

The item itself..at least in my brain...was more designed to give the DM 'an' extra action per round rather than infinite actions per round. I've designed encounters with solitary BBEGs and they get destroyed by my players (who are usually optimized). The one solitary encounter I've ever dm'd that felt good was when, as a caster, he was throwing quickened spells all over the place. The issue with quickened being that he was using all his good slots for supplemental spells.


You have to use the item to activate a use activated effect. What you describe would be Command [Mental] activation.

Also, even if using the item was a free action, you can't do it if it's not your turn.

Rock on. I should probably start a separate thread asking for help in explaining magic items...I kinda suck at those. Thanks for the assistance.

[Koury]

At that point, why not just giving him an Amulet of Winning?

Amulet of Winning
Benefit: As a free action, the character wearing this item wins.

Because that is basically what infinite actions would do.

Is it bad that my first thought was "Hmm, if I could kill someone with that amulet before they get a turn, I could beat them?"

:smalltongue:

[myancey]

Is it bad that my first thought was "Hmm, if I could kill someone with that amulet before they get a turn, I could beat them?"

:smalltongue:

That just shows your entrepreneurial skills.

[herrhauptmann]

OK ty.

As to the build, its for a BBEG,
Kobold Wizard 3 Master specialist (conjuratoin) 10, alienist 2, Demonologist 6

The campaign uses a spell point system for magic (I have just had way to many issues with people ad-libing their spell lists) and due to a world storyline, kobolds have a special summon list only they can use with the alienist ability (and can never be used by PC's).

The idea is
-Quicken Summon (Diabloist leaves this only a -1 to spell level)
-Swift Conjuration of a orb or other single action conjuration spell (from Master Specialists major conjuration ability)
- Standard Cast of something else (possibly invisibility or some other spell to conceal movement)
-move, rinse, repeat


I know it doesn't fit into the build, but if you take swiftblade to level 9, it grants an extra move action each turn. So long as you're under the effect of your own haste spell (cast from spell slots, not scroll or potion). That right there is a full round action, AND a move action in a turn.
For them, haste is automatically quickened, and it's an EX ability as soon as it's cast. So you retain it in an AMF.
Also get other bonuses like miss chances and freedom of movement too.

[Greenish]

I know it doesn't fit into the build, but if you take swiftblade to level 9, it grants an extra move action each turn.Extra move or standard action.

Since the BBEG is level 21, it shouldn't be that hard.

[herrhauptmann]

Extra move or standard action.

Since the BBEG is level 21, it shouldn't be that hard.

Whoops, how did I mess that up?? Just makes Swift 9 that much better.

On your turn:
1 Quickened spell
1 Full round action
1 Standard action

OR
1 Quickened
2 Standards
1 Move

If you have swiftblade 10, haste cast from a 6th level slot nets you a timestop for 1 round. Longer duration for higher spell slots.

[dextercorvia]

Isn't there a creature you can shapechange into that gives you an extra standard action in a round?

[Koury]

Chokers (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/choker.htm). :smallsmile:

[dextercorvia]

How would a Choker interact with White Raven Tactics? Would it get an extra action during each of its turns in a round or only one?

[Thurbane]

You get one swift or immediate action (immediate actions on turns other than your own count against your next turn), either one standard and one move, two move, or one full-round, and any number of free actions. Each of those three groups are completely independent of each other.
Slight clarification: as specifically spelled out in the Rules Compendium, you get any number of free actions up to a limit of what the DM says is reasonable.

[Divide by Zero]

Slight clarification: as specifically spelled out in the Rules Compendium, you get any number of free actions up to a limit of what the DM says is reasonable.

I don't have the Rules Compendium, but isn't "DM says so" the final ruling on everything anyway? Seems silly to have to point it out like that.

[Thurbane]

I don't have the Rules Compendium, but isn't "DM says so" the final ruling on everything anyway? Seems silly to have to point it out like that.
True, but for some players/groups it can help to have these things spelled out...