QUICK! does True seeing effect:

[Cipher Stars]

Greater Metamorphosis?

True seeing is a level FIVE cleric SPELL.
while Greater Meta is a level NINE psion Specialty POWER.

Does it effect?

and is true seeing really so ALL powerful? seriously... a level five spell shouldn't possibly penetrate level NINE spells let alone powers...

[Yora]

Well, it only shows a creatures true form, but metamorphosis is a polymorph effect. So while you see the true form, it doesn't end the power in any way.

But yes, there's no mention of "not affecting spells of higher level" as with the light and darkness spells, so true seeing should work like normal.

[Reinboom]

^ Semi Ninja! (this is what I get for tabbing to check things)

If you mean "Does True Seeing allow you to view the original form of a creature affected by a Greater Metamorphosis power?" Then yes, yes it does.

Greater Metamorphosis still grants all the abilities it says it grants even if someone can notice what your original form actually is.
In most cases, spells do not suddenly stop working when interacting with higher level spells, otherwise this could cause even larger power disputes while comparing the differences of casters even 1 level apart. Players do not tend to like their things suddenly not working.

[Eldariel]

In general, D&D doesn't work on the "bigger is better"-mentality (outside the various Light-spells which generally superceed the lower level versions); there are lots of effects that directly counter effects of higher level. The most obvious example, Death Ward (4th level spell) hardcounters Wail of the Banshee (9th level spell). That isn't necessarily a bad thing either; it ensures that you can't just brute force through things, you need to know what you're doing.

Just having the higher level slots isn't enough, you need to use them appropriately too. That, and the games is about more than just the highest level slots, much thanks to the way the system works. The lower level slots retain value even though objectively the spells are "less powerful".


But yeah, the primary function of Metamorphosis is turning into something and getting all sorts of awesome stats and abilities and all that. The disguise is generally just icing (and sometimes undesirable; there are much simpler powers and spells for that), and that's the part True Seeing penetrates. Beyond that it's irrelevant. You still keep all the goodies even if "scanned" for what you really are.

[Killer Angel]

True seeing is a level FIVE cleric SPELL.
while Greater Meta is a level NINE psion Specialty POWER.


I would also like to add that TS is a divinatin spell, and it's gives you visual information.
GM is a level 9, but it's not an anti-divination spell: it does other things, so not only it won't stop TS, but should neither stop a simple detect (kind of alignment), etc.

[Greenish]

Invisible Obscuring Mist is 2nd level spell and beats True Seeing.

Flight is a 3rd level spell and beats Reverse Gravity (7th level spell).

[Etrivar]

On a semi-related note: do you still see what everyone else sees, or do you just see the true form?

It would be rather interesting to be walking down the street and see everyone running from what appears to you to be an uninteresting stranger. But every one else sees him as a red dragon.

[Tokiko Mima]

The big question for me is, by RAW, can True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm) divine the true form of someone under the protection of a Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) spell?

[erikun]

On a semi-related note: do you still see what everyone else sees, or do you just see the true form?
You see both, like an overlay. You recognize which one is the true form and which one is the polymorphed form, as well. I don't recall where that is specifically mentioned, though.


The big question for me is, by RAW, can True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm) divine the true form of someone under the protection of a Mind Blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm) spell?
This is the can of worms nobody wants to open for the XXXXth time.

[Tokiko Mima]

This is the can of worms nobody wants to open for the XXXXth time.

True. I mention it mostly as a juxtaposition of the OP's question. Mind Blank and True Seeing directly oppose each other, whereas Greater Metamorphosis and True Seeing do not effect each others operation at all.

Someone capable of wielding Greater Metamorphosis probably shouldn't care if someone can see their true form. After all, knowing that the pit fiend that is killing you is actually Fred the grocer from down the street does nothing to stop him from tearing your body into tiny pieces.

[cfalcon]

True Sight is definitely meant to reveal the forms of polymorphed and even shapechanged creatures, and metamorphosis is no different.

Invisible Spell is poorly written and who really knows what the hell it was supposed to do, but it wasn't mess with true sight. It was something to do with being subtle, but the wording got ahead of it. No vetting done there.

[Greenish]

Invisible Fog is pretty subtle, and the feat was obviously intended to make the spell invisible.

Of course, when WotC develops metamagic, they just think of how it works with Fireball and ignore anything else. :smalltongue:

[sreservoir]

Invisible Fog is pretty subtle, and the feat was obviously intended to make the spell invisible.

Of course, when WotC develops metamagic, they just think of how it works with Fireball and ignore anything else. :smalltongue:

tbh, I don't think that's even inaccurate.

[Cerlis]

its just like a sorcerer using Energy Drain to give a superior caster negative levels with no save.

Saves are there to allow you to overcome spells, but Energy drain is a spell designed to not only be offensive, but a form of offensive that is hard to counter.


as others have said, Trueseeing is a clever spell designed to INFORM you, overcoming the lack of knowledge you have hidden as a SIDEEFFECT of the higher level spell.

now if you where actually dispelling greater metamorphasis then it would require a high level spell.

Its really no different than a wizard using a high spell slot to silence and still a fireball so he can kill people without anyone knowing its him,and someone usingthat lvl 2 or 3 spell to instantly inform him when someone starts to cast aspell.


Direct opposition usually requires simular power. But 3.5 is designed to reward players who think of clever stuff. The sorcerer who polymorphs into a dragon to assassinate someone needs to remember the guys scryers can find out its himwith the right spell.

[Keld Denar]

Just because you can see that the dragon in front of you is really a wimp in a dress doesn't make it hurt any less when he onomnomnoms on your face.

[Cipher Stars]

Ugh.. But I don't care about the Stats so much as the Flavor.
Stats mean little to me. What I lack in stats I make up for in roleplaying and the fluff that provides the actual entertainment...

Metamorphisis Is supposed to be Changing ones form, Not hiding it. Not an illusion...

But thanks anyway. the Mind Blank comments helped.

[TheCoelacanth]

But unless it has an instantaneous duration, it's not really changing your form. Magic is still necessary to keep you in that form. If you walk into an antimagic field or someone dispels it you change back.

[Tyndmyr]

seriously... a level five spell shouldn't possibly penetrate level NINE spells let alone powers...

Yeah, that's not how D&D works.

By default, spells and powers are equivalent. They interoperate perfectly normally. And only rarely do spells or powers reference levels. Things work much more organically. Sure, bigger leveled things tend to be more potent, but cleverly used low level spells remain useful.

And yes, just because they can see what you really are doesn't make your attacks hurt less.

[Eldariel]

Ugh.. But I don't care about the Stats so much as the Flavor.
Stats mean little to me. What I lack in stats I make up for in roleplaying and the fluff that provides the actual entertainment...

Metamorphisis Is supposed to be Changing ones form, Not hiding it. Not an illusion...

But thanks anyway. the Mind Blank comments helped.

There are some rituals for permanently changing your form in Savage Species. Then there's Reincarnation and Last Breath from Druid spell list. Then there's Magic Jar and True Mind Switch for acquiring funny bodies. Aside from all that though, your real form is the form you exist in without magic; magic can make you different in every aspect except the Core; your Core always remains your original form and the potent magick of True Seeing can basically see everything as if there was no magic. So, since your Core remains the same and magic gives you your new form, True Seeing is going to penetrate the magic and see your Core in any case.

[ericgrau]

Protection from evil is a 1st level spell that stops dominate monster, a 9th level spell. In fact the lowest dominate it could possibly affect is 5th level. It works even after the target is dominated. And it's still not necessarily worth preparing, b/c you might never use it. Unless a spell says it stops all other spells of level X, no it should not be that level, it should be lower.