Question about sources

[ILM]

Okay, stupid question time: what are the different "tiers" of sources? There's Core (PHB 1/2, DMG 1/2, MM afaik) and then there's what? Official WotC? What does that mean? Published by WotC? Under licence? How can I see where a particular book falls? And what makes one draw the line of third party?

[Greenish]

PHBII and DMGII aren't generally considered core. 1st party books are the ones published by WotC. Licensed books don't really have a category, and usually fall under "3rd party".

[Curmudgeon]

"Core" means the three original books necessary to run a game: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual.

Then there's OGC (Open Gaming Content) material. That includes most (but not all) of the three core books, plus other material Wizards of the Coast released under their OGL (Open Gaming License): much of Deities and Demigods, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, Epic Level Handbook. Finally there are many excerpts from their books that WotC has provided on their web site. There's an excellent guide to free D&D material here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=fd9dc7e72f94418b718967b338e3a9 ac&topic=1109.0).

Next is everything else published by Wizards for D&D. That includes the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book, but not any other Dragonlance material. Some people distinguish between setting-specific works (Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Dragonlance, & c.) and supplements not tied to any setting, but that's difficult for at least a couple of reasons: the core material is based on a subset of the Greyhawk campaign setting; and many books, especially from Eberron and FR, include plenty of general content.

Licensed 3rd party D&D material is essentially just the Dragon and Dungeon magazines when they were published by Paizo; these include the D&D® logo and usually a banner like "100% Offical D&D®". This has exactly the same status as official WotC supplements like Complete Arcane. The only difference is that these magazines are harder to locate than those hardbound books. There's also Dragon Compendium, which is largely material created by Paizo for Dragon magazine, but published by WotC.

Next we have licensed 3rd party non-D&D material. That includes all Dragonlance material after Dragonlance Campaign Setting (Margaret Weis Productions) and Rokugan after Oriental Adventures (Alderac Entertainment). You might be able to work some of this into a D&D campaign, but many of the rules are different.

Finally there's general d20 material. As long as it uses the basic d20 mechanics there aren't any real constraints. Most of this stuff is very difficult to work into a D&D game unless your game is pretty much about unlimited power.

[ILM]

PHBII and DMGII aren't generally considered core. 1st party books are the ones published by WotC. Licensed books don't really have a category, and usually fall under "3rd party".
Ah thanks for the correction.

So, to clarify: anything printed by WotC is 1st party, including the Completes, all the Forgotten-Realms and Eberron books, and PHB2/DMG2. Age of Mortals and Kingdoms of Kalamar, for instance, would be 3rd party. Correct?

[Curmudgeon]

Age of Mortals and Kingdoms of Kalamar, for instance, would be 3rd party. Correct?
Correct. The Age of Mortals books are Dragonlance (Margaret Weis Productions) and Kingdoms of Kalamar is another setting from Kenzer & Company.

[Greenish]

anything printed by WotC is 1st partyBy definition, yes.

[Greylond]

Correct. ... Kingdoms of Kalamar is another setting from Kenzer & Company.

Yes, but Kingdoms of Kalamar 3.0 is the only non-WOTC product that is "Official D&D."

[ILM]

Yes, but Kingdoms of Kalamar 3.0 is the only non-WOTC product that is "Official D&D."
Ah thanks, the D&D logo had me a bit confused :smallsmile:.

[Greylond]

It was a condition of the settled lawsuit over the KODT in the Dragon Archive CDROM...

[Thurbane]

I'd categorize the sources as follows:


Officially published WotC core book (PHB, DMG, MM).
Officially published WotC non-core book (PHBII, Complete series, ToB etc.).
Officially published Wotc web-only content.
3rd party published but officially WotC endorsed material (Dragon Mag [Paizo], Dragonlance Campaign Setting etc.).
3rd party published material, non-WotC stamped (most 3rd party - Green Ronin, Mongoose, Necromancer Games etc.)
Homebrew (either local, or on the web).


Exactly how you'd "rank" these is very subjective, though...

[Lastgrasp]

Ravenloft was third party, but officially endorsed by Wotc. I'm assuming White Wolf had to get the manuscripts approved before publishing them.

[Lastgrasp]

Can't remember, but was Dragonlance 3.5 or 3.0? Also, was there anything worthwhile in those hardbacks?

[Greylond]

Dragonlance has been around since AD&D 1st Edition...

[holywhippet]

Ravenloft was third party, but officially endorsed by Wotc. I'm assuming White Wolf had to get the manuscripts approved before publishing them.

From what I can see on the Ravenloft Wiki page, it was originally developed by WotC for the earlier editions of D&D. For 3.X it was licensed to Arthaus Games and published by White Wolf. They had to alter it in parts to avoid using intellectual property owned by WotC (mainly used in other setting). For example, Lord Soth and Vecna were excluded.

[Thurbane]

Yes, Ravenloft was a WotC (TSR) product under 1E and 2E. In 3E, they licensed the trademark out...the licensing was revoked (along with other licensed trademarks, such as Dragonlance and others) shortly before the announcement of 4E.

[Curmudgeon]

Can't remember, but was Dragonlance 3.5 or 3.0? Also, was there anything worthwhile in those hardbacks?
I can't address the worthiness of all the Dragonlance stuff, but the Dragonlance Campaign Setting (the one book Wizards of the Coast published) is based on D&D 3.5. There's new WotC Dragonlance stuff for 4e in the pipeline now. To not have to try to meld the old and new, most of the new stuff is on the continent of Taladas rather than Ansalon, the setting for most of the prior Dragonlance material in the world of Krynn.

[dextercorvia]

Can't remember, but was Dragonlance 3.5 or 3.0? Also, was there anything worthwhile in those hardbacks?

Reserves of Strength.

[Lastgrasp]

I can't address the worthiness of all the Dragonlance stuff, but the Dragonlance Campaign Setting (the one book Wizards of the Coast published) is based on D&D 3.5. There's new WotC Dragonlance stuff for 4e in the pipeline now. To not have to try to meld the old and new, most of the new stuff is on the continent of Taladas rather than Ansalon, the setting for most of the prior Dragonlance material in the world of Krynn.

I have the Dragonlance Hardback for 3.X and it's nicely done. I used to run a Dragonlance game back in the 2nd Edition days. The only thing I don't like about the setting is how tied to the novels it is.