Epic level way to prevent dispelling/disjunction

[Mystify]

I have a hypothetical character that I am designing. The goal is to make them invincible, and I am most of the way there

First, war troll as teh base race. important part of this is they get regeneration that can only be bypassed by acid. Everything else is nonlethal.

Second, add the half dragon template, and use a black dragon. This grants acid immunity. There is now no form of Hp damage that is lethal to this character.

now, this alone gives you ECL 21, without class levels. Surpisingly, this is actually a valid epic character once you get them the level appropriate equipment due to beastly physical stats, and enough BaB for 3 iterative attacks.

Next, take 15 levels of cleric. This gives you access to veil of undeath. This gives you a laundry list of immunities, including nonlethal damage. Since there is no form of damage that deals lethal damage to you, this makes you immune to damage. It also makes you immune to death attacks, negative levels, ability damage, mind-affecting effects, and pretty much and other non-hp method of killing them. As a cleric, you can get divine peristant metamagic. This allows you to change this spell from lasting a couple hours to lasting all day. You will recast this daily, and be invincible.

Until someone dispells it. Does anyone know of a way to defend against this reliably? At this level people can sneeze disjunctions an dispells, and your raw caster level is not even in the same ballpark.

[Cog]

he most obvious solution is to get that immunity in non-spell form. There's something around here called the Emerald Legion; it's a trick to do exactly this, though I don't recall the exact build - just do a search on it. Alternatively, a troll-blooded Warforged Juggernaut can pull this off with plenty of ECL to spare, though it does require a little crosswiring of regional requirements.

[LordBlades]

Boost your CL (Bead of Karma, Ankh of Ascension, Ioun Stone, Hymn of Praise, Create Magic Tattoo for a +12 CL), Spellblade, Ring of Counterspells. that's all I can come up with ATM.

[Mystify]

Boost your CL (Bead of Karma, Ankh of Ascension, Ioun Stone, Hymn of Praise, Create Magic Tattoo for a +12 CL), Spellblade, Ring of Counterspells. that's all I can come up with ATM.

He'd need a +21 just to be on-level.

[Glimbur]

Consider Ur-Priest to get 9th level spells in 10 levels. This qualifies you for Epic Spellcasting which is... ridiculous.

However... there are threats besides HP damage. Dominate Monster, for example, can be problematic. Imprisonment is a save or "die" which this has no particular resistance to. Even Planeshift can be inconvenient, though the cleric casting could offer a solution there.

Vile damage might or might not be an issue.

[AmberVael]

As an alternative to dealing with all the spell and CL shenanigans, I second Cog's suggestion. Get an Ex immunity to non-lethal damage.

You could either pick up 8 levels of Crimson Scourge for the Deadened Hide ability, (Cityscape, page 92-95) which will give you immunity to nonlethal (ex) and a more vague immunity to "effects that inflict or manipulate pain," or you could pick up the Gheden template from dragon magazine (Issue 313, I believe) which gives you immunity to nonlethal among other things.

Both are far simpler and more effective, and require much less investment than numerous cleric levels.

[Mystify]

Consider Ur-Priest to get 9th level spells in 10 levels. This qualifies you for Epic Spellcasting which is... ridiculous.

However... there are threats besides HP damage. Dominate Monster, for example, can be problematic. Imprisonment is a save or "die" which this has no particular resistance to. Even Planeshift can be inconvenient, though the cleric casting could offer a solution there.

Vile damage might or might not be an issue.

Dominate monster is mind-effecting, so viel of undeath protects you. cleric gives you plane shifts, so that is not an issue. imprisonment is one of the spells I was going to go through and find a special way to resist.

Actually, if we can get the immunity to nonlethal through a mundane means, then we could walk around in an antimagic field. Regen is Ex, so it still works.

Emerald legion didn't have immunity to nonlethal. Edit: Oh, they got that from ghedon. Still, without selective breeding, 2 inhereted templates is a bit much to justify.

aha! pale master gives immunity to nonlethal, and the immunities, including energy drain and attribute damage, as Ex. Nothing to dispel. He can get the nonlethal part earlier than viel of undeath as well.

So he is now immune to hp damage, disese, stunning, paralysis, sleep, poison(which includes the trollbane goo stuff that bypasses a troll's regen), death effects, crits, ability drain, energy drain, and physical ability damage.

now we just need to find immunity to mind affecting effects and mental ability damage. Pale master is a caster, so he does have access to antimagic field, if we can get it continous. As a troll, he does posses adequate capability to go up and tear things apart with his bare hands, esp. if he is invincible.

[AmberVael]

Since you seem to be gathering every kind of immunity you might possibly need, I'll just drop this handy list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) in here for you.

[Mystify]

Since you seem to be gathering every kind of immunity you might possibly need, I'll just drop this handy list (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) in here for you.

Excellent. Thank you.

Ok, so a half black dragon war troll pale master occult slayer.

Is there a way to deal mental ability damage that is not mind affecting? It seems like mental ability damage would be mind affecting by definition.

This character is now immune to anything that can kill you through extradinary abilities alone, that cannot be removed, dispelled, or otherwise deactivated.

However, he still eats, breathes, sleeps, and ages. We need to fix this.

[tyckspoon]

Well, since we're being so profligate with levels already, I suppose another ten or so won't hurt the thought experiment too badly:
10 levels in Renegade Mastermaker changes you to Living Construct, so you get any of the Warforged immunities you didn't already have. 7 in Green Star Adept makes you no longer need to eat/sleep/breathe, along with making you immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and being forced to sleep by other effects (although since you're already immune to poison and Mind-Affecting, I'm not sure what else there is that could force you to sleep anyway..)

[Mystify]

level 7 green star adept is perfect. That snipes his remaining vulnerabilities perfectly. Level 10 would grant an immunity to aging, but it also ruins con, which is problematic. But 7 is perfect. Gaining the living construct subtype on top of green star adept would restore your con mod, but Renegade mastermind requires you to be humanoid, and you are a dragon.

so we either need a loophole into renegade mastermind, some other way to gain the living construct subtype, a way to restore con to a construct, or some other method of negating aging.

Edit:Some research into half-dragons reveals that they already have greatly increased lifespans. Anyone know what the lifespan of a troll is? Since they have such impressive stats to start, a -6 to all physical stats still elaves them far ahead of a human. Even their dex is only reduced to normal dex. So eliminating agin penalties is not nearly as important as negating death by old age

[Divide by Zero]

Get Epic Spellcasting, make wards against the various dispelling effects. You'll still be vulnerable to epic dispels, but being immune to epic magic is kind of hard.

[Mystify]

How about this tact:

Is there a way for a humanoid to gain regeneration and associated energy immunty and stay humanoid? That would allow entry into the renegade mastermind class, which could be used to add in the immortality.

And I'd have to compare, but the green star adept may negate the need for pale master.

[Alleran]

Get Epic Spellcasting, make wards against the various dispelling effects. You'll still be vulnerable to epic dispels, but being immune to epic magic is kind of hard.
Epic spells are treated as 10th level spells, so if you can make a ward against "all 10th level spells" then that might get you started.


Is there a way for a humanoid to gain regeneration and associated energy immunty and stay humanoid?
I'm not sure about the regeneration aspect, but using the Savage Species rituals to become associated with an elemental type grants you immunity to that element (you become vulnerable to its opposite as a downside, though).

[Mystify]

Epic spells are treated as 10th level spells, so if you can make a ward against "all 10th level spells" then that might get you started.


I'm not sure about the regeneration aspect, but using the Savage Species rituals to become associated with an elemental type grants you immunity to that element (you become vulnerable to its opposite as a downside, though).

vulnerable to the opposite is not a problem if we can regenerate it.

[Rei_Jin]

Living Construct is sadly easy to get.

Apply the Half-Golem template (clay for preference) and fail your save to become a construct. Then, put the Incarnate Construct template on, making you a Living Construct. The Level Adjustment of Half-Golem is offset by the reduction in Level Adjustment of the Incarnate Construct.

[Cog]

Living Construct is sadly easy to get.

Apply the Half-Golem template (clay for preference) and fail your save to become a construct. Then, put the Incarnate Construct template on, making you a Living Construct. The Level Adjustment of Half-Golem is offset by the reduction in Level Adjustment of the Incarnate Construct.

Incarnate Construct does not work that way.
Where are you finding LA for half-golem?

[Rei_Jin]

*Shrugs* The rules specifically say that when you fail the Will Save, you become a construct under the control of the DM, meaning that you only have to worry about the CR increase. Putting the Incarnate Construct template on there reduces the CR by half. Might as well say "Level Adjustment from Half Golem is removed by Incarnate Construct Template"

The monstrosity we're talking about (in terms of the character build in this thread) is TO, as you'd never be able to play it, so what does it matter?

I've never found a LA for Half Golem, and Incarnate Construct was made before 3.5 (and therefore the Living Construct type) and was never updated. Furthermore, the Incarnate Construct spell allows Spell Resistance, and thus could never be used on Golems anyway, making the entire template utterly pointless.

[Wings of Peace]

Consider Ur-Priest to get 9th level spells in 10 levels. This qualifies you for Epic Spellcasting which is... ridiculous.

However... there are threats besides HP damage. Dominate Monster, for example, can be problematic. Imprisonment is a save or "die" which this has no particular resistance to. Even Planeshift can be inconvenient, though the cleric casting could offer a solution there.

Vile damage might or might not be an issue.

Epic Spellcasting also has a skill requirement which he wouldn't be able to meet pre-epic.

[JeminiZero]

Ah, the challenges of trying to make something unkillable.


Is there a way for a humanoid to gain regeneration and associated energy immunty and stay humanoid? That would allow entry into the renegade mastermind class, which could be used to add in the immortality.

The problem with Renegade Mastermaker (and other things that make you a construct), is that the moment you attain the construct type, you become vulnerable to construct slaying arrows (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Slaying_Arrow), which are not blocked by immunity to death effects (and indeed cannot be immunized against, AFAIK). And remember you autofail on a natural one.

So you might have to make tradeoff here: Do you want to die from old age (which is incidentally fine if you are part of a mass produced army with a sound retirement plan), or from a barrage of construct slaying arrows?

The indirect method of protection is to get Fort saves really high (22 at least), and then get Steadfast Determination (also used by the Legion™) so that you don't autofail on a natural one. Although at that point, you have to be on the lookout for enemies that can lower your saves and leave you vulnerable.

The alternative to regeneration, is the Delay Death and Ferocity combo, used in such builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774481&postcount=13).


And I'd have to compare, but the green star adept may negate the need for pale master.

Green Star Adept causes you to become a full construct and lose your Con score. Regeneration (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Regeneration) requires that you have a Con score, so you lose that once youbecome full construct.

[Alleran]

Epic Spellcasting also has a skill requirement which he wouldn't be able to meet pre-epic.
You can use two feats from Cityscape to get an additional skill rank above the normal maximum, which at 20th level will qualify you for Epic spellcasting. Then you just have to use the Dark Chaos Shuffle to swap out one of your feats for it, and you'll have your pre-epic Epic Spellcasting.

You still won't get it until 20th level, though.

[Mystify]

Ah, the challenges of trying to make something unkillable.



The problem with Renegade Mastermaker (and other things that make you a construct), is that the moment you attain the construct type, you become vulnerable to construct slaying arrows (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Slaying_Arrow), which are not blocked by immunity to death effects (and indeed cannot be immunized against, AFAIK). And remember you autofail on a natural one.

So you might have to make tradeoff here: Do you want to die from old age (which is incidentally fine if you are part of a mass produced army with a sound retirement plan), or from a barrage of construct slaying arrows?

The indirect method of protection is to get Fort saves really high (22 at least), and then get Steadfast Determination (also used by the Legion™) so that you don't autofail on a natural one. Although at that point, you have to be on the lookout for enemies that can lower your saves and leave you vulnerable.

The alternative to regeneration, is the Delay Death and Ferocity combo, used in such builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9774481&postcount=13).



Green Star Adept causes you to become a full construct and lose your Con score. Regeneration (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Regeneration) requires that you have a Con score, so you lose that once youbecome full construct.

This build has practically no feat investment, so it is not at all unreasonable to get the infinite deflect arrows feat built in. Also, this character will not fail the fort save out of sheer con and dragon hit dice. if you start with a 10 in con you end up wit ha fort save of 18, unbuffed. a 16 in con gives you a 21, and that is at the starting level. How do enemies lower your saves?
Its also somewhat debatable that your undead based protection from fort saves isn't bypassed by construct slaying arrows, but thats not really stated, and so we shouldn't rely on it.

So yeah, just take steadfast determination and a construct slaying arrow is no issue.


I do realize that losing con removes the regen.That is why I am so dead-set on keeping con. The part about becoming a construct via green star adept requires that you obtain the living construct subtype, which will allow you to retain the con score. At that point we have absolutely no need of any spells to

Also, one flaw I see in your build is that your armor can still be disjunctioned/dispelled, then you can be disintegrated. Another is that if you get trapped in a dead magic zone for more than 24 hours, your invincibility goes away and you can't recast it. Alternatively, When it comes time for him to refresh his spells, you unleash a full-out offensive, preventing him from retrieving the spells, then the duration expires and you die.



Living Construct is sadly easy to get.

Apply the Half-Golem template (clay for preference) and fail your save to become a construct. Then, put the Incarnate Construct template on, making you a Living Construct. The Level Adjustment of Half-Golem is offset by the reduction in Level Adjustment of the Incarnate Construct.
That is not living construct. That is making a construct into a living creature. Completely different. You lose all of the benefits of being a construct. Living construct would allow us to get the immortality of the construct without negating any of our other abilities.

[Mystify]

I think I've got it!

Black dragon war troll to start
Go through pale master for those immunities
then go through elemental savant. By the end, you are an elemental. You still have con, but you don't need to eat,sleep,or breathe, and you are now immortal. Take occult slayer to get a permanent mind blank, making you immune to mind affecting things and most divination. Then go through master of many forms to get immunity to polymorph, and, if spheres of destruction exist in this world, go through entropomancer to become immune to them as well.

I think this character literally cannot die at this point.

And I'd like to claim immunity to imprisonment. Temporal stasis is a fort negates effect with no allowance for objects. Hence, we are immune to it. imprisonment puts you in temporal stasis, which you are immune to.

[Kadajko]

Just found this thread.

I wonder, don't trolls normally die from fire damage as well as acid? And if you go for a fire elemental, the character can still be killed by a hellfire blast no?