Shield Bash-ing

[Luzahn]

I am building a durable, tank-modeled Paladin, and was considering investment into shield combat feats. Is this style ever worth it, and, if so, what are some basic methods of optimizing it?

[Tvtyrant]

Spiked shield, put the defending quality on the spikes for extra AC. Then go into TWF with the shield by dipping two levels of Ranger.

[Luzahn]

Doesn't taking a non-Paladin level prevent further advancement?

[Greenish]

Doesn't taking a non-Paladin level prevent further advancement?Yes, unless you burn a feat on Knightly Training.

Besides, Agile Shield Fighter would probably work better.

Person_Man has a guide to shields (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123630).

[Sucrose]

I am building a durable, tank-modeled Paladin, and was considering investment into shield combat feats. Is this style ever worth it, and, if so, what are some basic methods of optimizing it?

Note: This advice is assuming that the party you wish to play in is at roughly Tier 3. If it's above, you'll probably need ubercharger shenanigans to keep up. If below, then play what you like; you'll probably keep up.

Shield combat is worth it in two circumstances: if you can be a relevant threat despite the loss of THF-based damage improvement, and if you can force enemies to engage you despite you not being a particularly relevant threat.

Smite Evil goes some tiny way toward fulfilling the first condition, but isn't available frequently enough for me to think that it goes all the way.

If you can frequently make use of Mounted Combat, then even without two-handed power attack, you can fulfill the first condition. Be sure to get the full Spirited Charge line, and some way of getting your mount through small areas (Tunnel Riding or just playing a small race are pretty common) then you'll probably be roughly all right.

Is Tome of Battle open to you? It sounds as though you're at the planning stage, so if you aren't married to the idea of the Paladin class, then the Crusader can fulfill the first condition fairly well, and opens up Thicket of Blades for you to begin to fulfill the second.

Once you mount the initial hurdle, I recommend acquiring the Shield Specialization and Shield Ward feats from PHB 2. Shield Ward permits you to apply your Shield AC bonus to your touch AC, which is very valuable.

[MeeposFire]

Doesn't taking a non-Paladin level prevent further advancement?

Officially yes without using special feats.

You could instead take the shield based feats in the PHB2. One (I think it is agile shield fighting) allows you to bash with only a -2 to your attack roles which is nice since using normal two weapon fighting you would take a -4 with a spiked heavy shield. So that is a good place to start.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get the Bashing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#bashing) special property, it costs a +1 armor enhancement, makes it count as a +1 weapon, and increases its damage by two size categories.

Typically you would want an animated shield and a two handed weapon. There are a few situations which make holding the shield worthwhile, such as taking Crusader levels with the few shield-based Devoted Spirit counters.

There's a tactical feat in PH2 called Blood-Spiked Charger which focuses on using a spiked shield with armor spikes, it requires Weapon Focus in both but the Spiked Avalanche maneuver alone could be worth it. It lets you attack with both the spiked shield and armor spikes on a charge, and adds double your strength bonus to damage in addition to what you would normally get (so 3x Str main hand, 2.5x Str offhand). You could also use a spiked heavy shield two-handed and make offhand attacks with your armor spikes.

You could instead just go sword-and-board, spend your feats on Shield Specialization and Shield Ward in PH2, maybe go with a psionic race for Focused Shield and eventually Deflective Armor from Races of Stone, and all of that will still work with an animated shield later on.

[Greenish]

Is there an exotic shield that allows bashing? A slight modification to EWM and Uncanny Blow could get you 2:1 PA returns from your shield, which could make it viable main weapon.

[JaronK]

This may be of interest to you:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1532.0;wap2

JaronK

[Dralnu]

Get Shield Charge and Shield Slam from Complete Warrior. Pair it up with Improved Trip. Charge your opponent, bash him, daze him, get a free trip, get a free hit. Unlike most shield feats, these ones are actually good.

Add that to the Crusader. You have shield-required maneuvers and you truly tank.

EDIT: Ninja'd by the creator! :smalltongue:

[Luzahn]

Anyone know of a good reference for the feats of these other books?

And I assume Improved Shield Bash should be taken first, to keep the Ac bonus while bashing?

[Greenish]

Anyone know of a good reference for the feats of these other books?The books themselves. Most of them aren't OGL, so we're not allowed to link to any site that would list their details.