Help designing a Alienist

[UnholyPenance]

For the current campaign i'm in, i'm debating making a Blood Magus going the sorcerer route. The only thing i'm not sure on is spell selection and what good magic items i should take. The character will be level 10, so i have around 49,000 gp to play with and up to 4th lvl spells.

All help is appreciated

[Zaq]

Blood Magus is a class that is flavorful, but gives us absolutely zero idea about what direction you want to take the character in.

So, um, what do you want to do? Sorcerers are among the most versatile classes in the friggin' game (at least at chargen). Share a little bit more about what you want the character to actually DO, and then perhaps we can talk.

[UnholyPenance]

Blood Magus is a class that is flavorful, but gives us absolutely zero idea about what direction you want to take the character in.

So, um, what do you want to do? Sorcerers are among the most versatile classes in the friggin' game (at least at chargen). Share a little bit more about what you want the character to actually DO, and then perhaps we can talk.

Sorry, i was a little preoccupied when i posted this and wasn't thinking too clearly.
I don't mind the blaster sorcs, but just being able to blast gets a little boring. With the spells, a suppose a balance of damage spells with some buffs and/or just fun spells, like the bigby's. Also, just suggestions for some good magical items that would really support the character. I'm not asking for you guys to build it, just some suggestions to make it a little better.

Sorry for not being clear

[*.*.*.*]

I highly suggest you don't take blood magus. I recommend something else flavorful but gives you more of a bang for your buck. Something like fiend blooded is nice

[UnholyPenance]

Well, i was also debating the Alienist presitge class. Since playing FFX, i've enjoyed summoning and tried to find a way to accomplish that. I don't really like the preparation of the wizard/cleric, i'd go sorc. Would that be a better choice over Blood Magus?

[HalfDragonCube]

Well, i was also debating the Alienist presitge class. Since playing FFX, i've enjoyed summoning and tried to find a way to accomplish that. I don't really like the preparation of the wizard/cleric, i'd go sorc. Would that be a better choice over Blood Magus?

Quite possibly. Then you get some freaky monsters from the depths of our universe. And then you become one. What's not to like?:smalltongue:

[dextercorvia]

For a similar flavor to Blood Magus (they even share a class ability) but mechanically superiority, try the Tainted Scholar. They'll be sorry you did.

[UnholyPenance]

Quite possibly. Then you get some freaky monsters from the depths of our universe. And then you become one. What's not to like?:smalltongue:

Not much. It has full caster progression, some flavor, and i get to play a slightly unstable character. :smalltongue:

[Veyr]

The problem with Alienist is that its sort of "signature" class feature is supposed to power up Summon Monster (Pseudonatural is better than Celestial or Fiendish), but in the process it removes all of the good summons (by removing all of the 'named' options, leaving only the templated things). This is bad.

Alienist can be good, but you need to talk to your DM about adding some Abberations to replace the Outsiders that you lose.

Also, consider Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel (but never in conjunction with Alienist) — you get really good and flavorful summoning from that.


The problem with Blood Magus is just that's it's really underwhelming. It's a cool idea, but the pre-requisites are awful (Great Fortitude and Toughness are terrible feats, and then you need to have died.), you lose two spellcasting levels (and you really need an extremely good reason to lose even one; losing more than that should basically never happen for a primary spellcaster), and you just get... not much.

[UnholyPenance]

The problem with Alienist is that its sort of "signature" class feature is supposed to power up Summon Monster (Pseudonatural is better than Celestial or Fiendish), but in the process it removes all of the good summons (by removing all of the 'named' options, leaving only the templated things). This is bad.

Alienist can be good, but you need to talk to your DM about adding some Abberations to replace the Outsiders that you lose.

Also, consider Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel (but never in conjunction with Alienist) — you get really good and flavorful summoning from that.


The problem with Blood Magus is just that's it's really underwhelming. It's a cool idea, but the pre-requisites are awful (Great Fortitude and Toughness are terrible feats, and then you need to have died.), you lose two spellcasting levels (and you really need an extremely good reason to lose even one; losing more than that should basically never happen for a primary spellcaster), and you just get... not much.


You have a point regarding the Blood Magus. What you end up getting seems really fun, but the downsides are getting in the class.

Regarding the Alienist, what abberations would be suggested to suggest to my DM for my summoning spells?

[TheGeckoKing]

You have a point regarding the Blood Magus. What you end up getting seems really fun, but the downsides are getting in the class.

Regarding the Alienist, what abberations would be suggested to suggest to my DM for my summoning spells?

Well, would your DM be allowing of some homebrew fixes? I swear I did an Alienist fix once upon a time.

[UnholyPenance]

Well, would your DM be allowing of some homebrew fixes? I swear I did an Alienist fix once upon a time.

I'm not sure, i could ask him about it. what'd you have in mind?

[TheGeckoKing]

Just something I did to stave off boredom. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178430) Tends not to bugger up your summons like the original, unless you catastrophically mess up your Concentration checks.

[UnholyPenance]

Not bad, i'll question my DM about it.

In any case, what are some suggested Magic Items to enhance the Alienist? A cloak of Charisma, i'm guessing, would be a staple since i'm a Sorc, casting off of Charisma. The boost of my DC's wouldn't be bad.

What would you arm the Alienist with?

[HalfDragonCube]

What would you arm the Alienist with?

Tentacles.

[dextercorvia]

For more pun, try Bear Tentacles.

[Tokuhara]

Alienist fluff-wise is a great PrC with lots of good class features. I mean, a Pseudonatural familiar? Self-given template? Come On! Granted, no "true aberrations" summons kinda bites, but look at the alternative summoning PrCs: Malconvoker (wins the PrC Award for most likely to kill you), Master Specialist (Bread and Butter for wizards) and a couple others. Really, with true aberration summoning, Alienist is a good choice both fluff and crunch-wise.

[Veyr]

Frenzied Berzerker is far more likely to kill party-mates than a Malconvoker. So is a Fiendbinder, for that matter.

[HalfDragonCube]

Frenzied Berzerker is far more likely to kill party-mates than a Malconvoker. So is a Fiendbinder, for that matter.

Party-mates? Sounds odd when you say it out loud.

Still, if you find yourself weighing up the pros and cons of killing the rest of the PCs, then you might need to get their consent.

Currently my character could kill the rest of the party on the pesky clerics three levels higher than me, netting a nice xp reward. Unfortunately, they would throttle me OOC. Still, keep a method of taking people down with you just in case. And loot the corpses.

[Veyr]

There is absolutely no RAW reason why a Malconvoker would get his party in trouble, though, is what I'm saying. Both Frenzied Berzerker and Fiendbinder have actual rules where things can turn on the rest of the party. The Malconvoker does not, beyond the usual issues with Planar Binding (which can be largely mitigated, including by the Malconvoker ability to immediately dismiss anything he's bound and gets free). Conjuration (Summoning) spells have no chance of the creature in question turning on you, and the creature only exists for the duration of the spell — so there's nothing out there holding a grudge. And those spells are the Malconvoker's bread-and-butter; in fact, a great portion of Malconvokers doesn't bother going past 5th level and doesn't bother with the Planar Binding line at all.

The Alienist could arguably be worse, what with being insane.

[HalfDragonCube]

The Alienist could arguably be worse, what with being insane.

No class has 'sanity' as a prerequisite.

[Veyr]

No, but between summoning unknowable monsters from beyond the veil, and being quite literally insane, an Alienist seems far more likely to cause trouble for his party than a Malconvoker.

[UnholyPenance]

Tentacles.

lol, great pun.

[Malkav]

Frenzied Berzerker is far more likely to kill party-mates than a Malconvoker. So is a Fiendbinder, for that matter.

Fix: War Weaver with fly-on everyone except the FB

[Veyr]

Fix: War Weaver with fly-on everyone except the FB
Oh, there are lots of ways to fix Frenzied Berzerker. I was mostly just responding to Tokuhara's "Malconvoker (wins the PrC Award for most likely to kill you)" — considering classes like Frenzied Berzerker and Fiendbinder have actual RAW mechanical for getting friends and family killed, while Malconvokers have class features designed to prevent their Called creatures from doing the same, I don't think it's a fair statement.

[UnholyPenance]

What magic items do you suggest i use for my Alienist? what would be a good item to equip? I mean, as a Sorc, i'd assume a Cloak of Charisma to boost my save DCs, Bracers of Armor, Ring of Protection. What past those staples are suggested?

[Allanimal]

What magic items do you suggest i use for my Alienist? what would be a good item to equip? I mean, as a Sorc, i'd assume a Cloak of Charisma to boost my save DCs, Bracers of Armor, Ring of Protection. What past those staples are suggested?

Memento Magica (MiC) maybe? Lesser Rod of extend is so cheap at that point, you should have one. Other Metamagic rods as needed. Runestaff to add to your spells known.

Bracers of Armor seem expensive to me. A mage armor spell, extended with the rod, and the slot returned by the Memento Magica would be cheaper. 16k gp vs 4500 gp for +4 to AC.

Edit: the downside is that the duration is only 20 hours at 10th level. If you have a 1st level slot left over before you sleep, you can recast...

[UnholyPenance]

Memento Magica (MiC) maybe? Lesser Rod of extend is so cheap at that point, you should have one. Other Metamagic rods as needed. Runestaff to add to your spells known.

Bracers of Armor seem expensive to me. A mage armor spell, extended with the rod, and the slot returned by the Memento Magica would be cheaper. 16k gp vs 4500 gp for +4 to AC.

Edit: the downside is that the duration is only 20 hours at 10th level. If you have a 1st level slot left over before you sleep, you can recast...

That is awesome! and so cheap compared to Bracer's +4. Any particular Runestaff in mind?

[MrRigger]

I usually end up making my own. Some kind of utility runestaff is nice, so you can open your spells known up to those you're going to cast all the time, with the runestaff for the once a day stuff. You could make a Runestaff of Rays as well, if you wanted to go the other way.

MrRigger

[UnholyPenance]

I usually end up making my own. Some kind of utility runestaff is nice, so you can open your spells known up to those you're going to cast all the time, with the runestaff for the once a day stuff. You could make a Runestaff of Rays as well, if you wanted to go the other way.

MrRigger

How do you make your own?

[Allanimal]

How do you make your own?

There are rules for it in the Magic Item Compendium.

[UnholyPenance]

There are rules for it in the Magic Item Compendium.

I read those rules after i posted that. Since the concept of a Runestaff is to be able to use spells you don't have, i assume to use scrolls. Is there any spells you guys use that you'd suggest?

Also, question about the Aberrant Sphere from the Magic Item Compendium. It says it was made by Alienist and some more back story. What it does:
A sphere
has 3 charges, which are renewed each day.
at dawn. Spending 1 or more charges causes
the sphere to shatter, as it summons a par*
ticular kind of aberration, which appears
anywhere within 30 feet of you and serves
you (as summon monster I) for 7 rounds. You
also take a penalty on your Will saves as
long as the creature is present.
1 charge: Summons a choker; - 1 penalty
on Will saves.
2 charges: Summons a grick; - 2 penalty
on Will saves.
3 charges: Summons a carrion
crawler; - 3 penalty on Will saves.
At the end of the duration (or
when the creature is destroyed),
the sphere re-forms in your hand
(or at your feet if your hands are
full) and the penalty on your Will
saves disappears.


The Alienist's first ability prohibits them from summoning nonpsedunatural creatures that were once celestial/fiendish. So, can Alienist use this item and, if they can, does it summon the creatures or psedunatural versions of the creatures?

[Veyr]

The item works as Summon Monster I, but you're not actually casting that (or any other) spell when you use it, and thus your Pseudonatural-adding class feature does not apply, I think — but you can still use this to summon the monsters listed without worrying about whether or not that ability precludes it.

[UnholyPenance]

Alright. Since i can use it, would it be worth purchasing? I get the creature for 7 rounds. I could probably summon more combat-oriented creatures over them. Is it worth spending 2,800 on it?

[Infernalbargain]

PF Summoner is better for getting the more FFX feel.

[UnholyPenance]

PF Summoner is better for getting the more FFX feel.

Probably, but this is a 3.5 game and he doesn't want to blend 3.5 with PF

[UnholyPenance]

Alright, so i've got the search for magic items narrowed down. I have about 8,500 gp left after buying gloves of dex +2, a 1st level memento magica and lesser rod of extend spell (the previous two items for a semi permanent mage armor), and a ring of protection +1. I cannot decide on how to spend the remaining gold. Any suggestions?