How much do Adamantine Golems Weigh?

[Sims]

I know they are Huge Size category, and made of Adamantine, but I can't find the wieght anywhere. Does it say it in any of the books?

[Cog]

An adamantine golem’s body is sculpted from 45,000 pounds of pure iron and is then polymorphed into adamantine...

Adamantine isn't stated to weigh differently than steel/iron items (while mithral is), so assuming there's little waste, you've got your number right there.

[Seffbasilisk]

Crafted from 45,000 pounds of pure iron.

From a Warforged notation: "While adamantine itself is no heavier than steel..."

Iron to steel, if the iron is 'pure' (vague term)...

So I'd say roughly 45K lbs.

[Sims]

Haha! It was litterally right in front of me, thanks guys.

[Seffbasilisk]

No worries, but I am mildly annoyed that I got ninja'd with the gist of the same info while running six searches on Iron-to-Steel weight conversion...

*shakes fist*

We need more Pirates to cull the ninja population.

[Cog]

Steel is basically dirty iron, so it's not much of a conversion at all. :smallbiggrin:

[Canarr]

45,000 lbs of adamantium? What's the price tag on that thing?

[Lateral]

It's an epic monster, so pretty damn high. :smallsigh:

[Canarr]

So... that means, if you throw one of those at your party, if they defeat it, they're sitting on 20 tons of adamantium, to be used at their discretion?

[Hiro Protagonest]

So... that means, if you throw one of those at your party, if they defeat it, they're sitting on 20 tons of adamantium, to be used at their discretion?

Yep. That's why it's epic.

[Divide by Zero]

The difference between iron and steel in terms of composition is like 2% carbon. It isn't a significant weight difference.

[Jeraa]

45,000 lbs of adamantium? What's the price tag on that thing?

According to the Epic Level Handbook, 500,000 gold plus another 25,000 for the body itself.

So even if the part defeated one, and if they sold the remains for the full price (500k), thats only 125k gold for each player. That is nothing compared to the 2.1 million each character already has. (WBL for a level 25 character)

[Dusk Eclipse]

According to the Epic Level Handbook, 500,000 gold plus another 25,000 for the body itself.

So even if the part defeated one, and if they sold the remains for the full price (500k), thats only 125k gold for each player. That is nothing compared to the 2.1 million each character already has. (WBL for a level 25 character)
So that is why you defeat it pre-epic :smalltongue: I haven't seen the stats ; but I am sure it is defeatable pre-epic by strongly built characters.

A dedicated meleer can kill it with only 337 HP I am sure a charger can one-round it perhaps by level.. 12-ish (pounce + shocktrooper+ Leap attack+shadow stricking valourous weapon [+5 equivalent; I think it might be possible with 12 level WBL] )

[Divide by Zero]

According to the Epic Level Handbook, 500,000 gold plus another 25,000 for the body itself.

So even if the part defeated one, and if they sold the remains for the full price (500k), thats only 125k gold for each player. That is nothing compared to the 2.1 million each character already has. (WBL for a level 25 character)

Adamantine is worth far more than ~12 gp per pound, though.

[Greenish]

A dedicated meleer can kill it with only 337 HP I am sure a charger can one-round it perhaps by level.. 12-ish (pounce + shocktrooper+ Leap attack+shadow stricking valourous weapon [+5 equivalent; I think it might be possible with 12 level WBL] )At level 12, you could have two levels in Eternal Blade and ignore it's DR with a rusty spoon.

Can't quite fit in 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker and 2 of Eternal Blade, though, but normal charging shenanigans might be enough.

[Koury]

Pimping out Eternal Blade pretty hard today, eh Greenish? :smallbiggrin:

[Lateral]

Gotta hit it first, though. It's got a damn high AC.

[Dusk Eclipse]

At level 12, you could have two levels in Eternal Blade and ignore it's DR with a rusty spoon.

Can't quite fit in 5 levels of Frenzied Berserker and 2 of Eternal Blade, though, but normal charging shenanigans might be enough.

So a meleer can kill this CR 25 thrat by level 12 nice, though the the question is what can a caster does this thing is completely immune to magic and supernatural abilities...

[Greenish]

Pimping out Eternal Blade pretty hard today, eh Greenish? :smallbiggrin:I don't recall even mentioning it today before this. :smallamused:

Of course, now that you remind me, a Warblade/Revenant Blade/Eternal Blade build should make clean work of the bugger in a turn too.

[Edit]:
So a meleer can kill this CR 25 thrat by level 12 nice,You'd want to reliably hit AC 37 though, or figure a way to make touch attacks without using one's swift action for the turn.

[Lateral]

So a meleer can kill this CR 25 thrat by level 12 nice, though the the question is what can a caster does this thing is completely immune to magic and supernatural abilities...

I dunno, how much damage can a Mailman build pump out at 12th level with an Orb spell?

[Koury]

I don't recall even mentioning it today before this. :smallamused:

Alas, you got me sir. Touche. :smallredface: :smalltongue:

[Jeraa]

I dunno, how much damage can a Mailman build pump out at 12th level with an Orb spell?

Doesn't matter. Orb spells are still magic, and adamantine golems are immune to all magic. Even if the spell bypasses spell resistance, the golem is still immune to it.

A normal golems spell immunity only applies to spells that allow spell resistance, but an epic golems spell immunity applies to all spells.

[Greenish]

Doesn't matter. Orb spells are still magic, and adamantine golems are immune to all magic. Even if the spell bypasses spell resistance, the golem is still immune to it.They're not called "non-magical balls of fire" for nothing:
Conjuration (Creation):

If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

[Aspenor]

Doesn't matter. Orb spells are still magic, and adamantine golems are immune to all magic. Even if the spell bypasses spell resistance, the golem is still immune to it.

Arguably the Orb spells are only magic when they are being conjured. By the time they hit their target, they are no longer magic in any way. This is why they are used for killing things trying to mess up your day by hiding in an Antimagic Field.

[Sims]

If a Spell Caster runs into one, better hope he s got Force Cage prepared!

[Divide by Zero]

Every golem's ability description has the line:
"A X golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance."

So orbs work perfectly well against them.

Edit: never mind, apparently the epic golems don't have that. Maybe because it's 3.0 material?

[Aspenor]

Every golem's ability description has the line:
"A X golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance."

So orbs work perfectly well against them.

The Adamantine Golem is different. It flat-out states that it is immune to magic and supernatural abilities, and doesn't care about whether it allows SR or not.

[Divide by Zero]

The Adamantine Golem is different. It flat-out states that it is immune to magic and supernatural abilities, and doesn't care about whether it allows SR or not.

Yeah, I ninja-edited that in. I would attribute that to the ELH not getting a proper 3.5 update, though.

[Jeraa]

Yeah, I ninja-edited that in. I would attribute that to the ELH not getting a proper 3.5 update, though.

An update booklet was put out by Wizards. No mention of the magic immunity changing. They didn't mention a change for the Colossus or Demilich either. So either it was overlooked, or we can just assume that once you get epic, the rules change.

[Koury]

:smallconfused:

I see nothing in Adamantine Golems one sentence Magic Immunity ability that leads me to believe and Orb of Fire would fail to damage it.

[Solaris]

Adamantine is worth far more than ~12 gp per pound, though.

This math brought to you by the people who think a flask of holy water should weigh a half-pound lighter than an empty flask.

[Jeraa]

:smallconfused:

I see nothing in Adamantine Golems one sentence Magic Immunity ability that leads me to believe and Orb of Fire would fail to damage it.

Besides the fact that it is a magical spell, and the adamantine golem is immune to all magical and supernatural effects?

[Greenish]

Besides the fact that it is a magical spell, and the adamantine golem is immune to all magical and supernatural effects?By that logic, the golem is also "immune" to a wall of stone. :smallamused:

[Koury]

Besides the fact that it is a magical spell, and the adamantine golem is immune to all magical and supernatural effects?

Yeah, the thing that hits the golem is not magical. The fire/acid/whatever that you fling at it comes into existence via magic, but once that instant in time passes, it is no longer magic in any way.

For the golem to be immune to Orb of Fire, it would also have to be immune to the rocks that fall on it when the cave it lives in collapses from your Earthquake spell.

[Divide by Zero]

That completely contradicts all precedent for magical effects, though. There's no way to completely protect yourself from SR: No spells except by being immune to the damage itself.

[Koury]

That completely contradicts all precedent for magical effects, though. There's no way to completely protect yourself from SR: No spells except by being immune to the damage itself.

Its not all SR: No spells. Just Duration: Instant spells in the Conjuration school.

[Canarr]

According to the Epic Level Handbook, 500,000 gold plus another 25,000 for the body itself.

So even if the part defeated one, and if they sold the remains for the full price (500k), thats only 125k gold for each player. That is nothing compared to the 2.1 million each character already has. (WBL for a level 25 character)

Yeah, that price seems kinda stupid...

According to the SRD, a light armor made from adamantium costs an extra 5K gold (for chain shirt, 25lb); medium armor, 10K (for chain mail, 40lb), and heavy armor, 15K (for full plate, 50lb).

That would indicate a price of 250-300 gold per lb of adamantium (unless some of it is supposed to be extra cost of working a more difficult material).

So, going on the low end of the range, and assuming 200 gold per lb, that would make the adamantium golem worth 9 million gold pieces in raw materials alone. Split four ways, that would neatly double the mentioned charaters' WBL.

Sometimes, they really didn't do their math...

[PersonMan]

Sometimes, they really didn't do their math...

Aren't the prices for the iron, though? You take the iron, pay for it, and then turn it into admantine. So you never actually pay for tons and tons of it.

[Canarr]

Um... nope, don't think so. That's a separate metal, not a refined one.

[Cog]

Um... nope, don't think so. That's a separate metal, not a refined one.
I quoted the relevant section at the second post in this thread. It's made out of iron and magically converted into adamantium. Standard refinement techniques do not apply.

[Canarr]

Ahhhh, got it... sorry, didn't check that, you're right.

But - besides the fact that this solution would still leave the PCs with 9 million gps worth of adamantine - there's still something wrong with that idea.

Polymorph any object, the spell supposedly used to do that, states (quote): This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine.

So... now what? :smallconfused:

[LOTRfan]

Ahhhh, got it... sorry, didn't check that, you're right.

But - besides the fact that this solution would still leave the PCs with 9 million gps worth of adamantine - there's still something wrong with that idea.

Polymorph any object, the spell supposedly used to do that, states (quote): This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine.

So... now what? :smallconfused:

I think either A) Polymorph Any Object was different in 3.0, or B) WotC doesn't understand how their own spell works. Probably the later.

[Cog]

Polymorph any object, the spell supposedly used to do that, states (quote): This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine.

So... now what? :smallconfused:
PAO is not the spell supposedly used to do that. The remainder of that sentence:

...polymorphed into adamantine (using wish).

[Canarr]

Okay, that makes a lot more sense, I guess. But could you give me a link to that? Because in the SRD I'm using, I get


An adamantine golem’s body is sculpted from 45,000 pounds of pure iron and is then polymorphed into adamantine (using polymorph any object).

[Lateral]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/golem.htm

Were you using D&D wiki? Because it's completely unreliable.

[Cog]

http://www.d20srd.org/. The copy of the ELH I'm looking at also uses Wish.

[Canarr]

Nope, not the Wiki; this one: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/

[tyckspoon]

http://www.d20srd.org/. The copy of the ELH I'm looking at also uses Wish.

This was a change made in the 3rd edition errata for the Epic handbook. d20srd incorporates errata into the text, and a more recent printing of the ELH should have it as well. You'll see Poly Any Object if you have an early ELH or if you're looking at the actual official Wizards SRD documents, which are not updated with errata.

[Jeraa]

But - besides the fact that this solution would still leave the PCs with 9 million gps worth of adamantine - there's still something wrong with that idea.


That is easy enough to fix - the golem dies, the DM can rule the adamantine turns back into the iron it once was. Or as I would do it, the golem could really be iron and only plated with adamantine.

[Hazzardevil]

If a Spell Caster runs into one, better hope he s got Force Cage prepared!

I beg to differ when Gate enters the equation.

I'd personally allow the orb spells with the logic that by the time it hits the golem it's no longer magic, just a ball of fire.

I don't understand why people can't just summon an incredibly powerful monster then use other things to help flank.

[Thurbane]

Considering one pound of gold is worth 50gp, a pound of adamantine should be worth a lot more than 12gp, IMHO.

Also, I firmly believe that the golem's spell immunity (unlike, say, that of the Iron Golem) would defeat the Orb spells, by it's explicit wording.

[Kantolin]

I don't think the golem's spell immunity would work against an orb of fire any more than a golem could walk through a wall of stone.

Now, is it fair for the orbs to smack around golems? I don't know - the orbs are really good in most circumstances anyway, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if they couldn't.

It'd be kinda lame, however, to rule 'Immune to all magic', and thus allow an adamantine golem to walk through an essentially-nerfed wall of stone. Or to have someone creatively collasp a building on him and have him be immune on it.

[Thurbane]

Depends on how you feel about an Epic Level monster being "vulnerable" to (relatively) low level spells. For non-epic golems, I wouldn't have an issue. But for a monster that's supposed to be an epic-level threat, it seems a bit naff to me.

It's all rheotorical for me, though - I have never, and will never, play an epic level campaign. I find anything over about 10th frustrating enough to either play or DM, let alone what epic entails. :smalltongue:

[Koury]

It's all rheotorical for me, though - I have never, and will never, play an epic level campaign. I find anything over about 10th frustrating enough to either play or DM, let alone what epic entails. :smalltongue:

Frustrating how so? [/actual curiosity]

[Thurbane]

Frustrating how so? [/actual curiosity]
Well, most of the guys in my group aren't as well versed in the 3.5 ruleset as me. As you get higher in levels, you get access to more spells, items, class abilities and such, so combat in our games tends to grind to a halt while 2/3 of the players (and often the DM) stop to look things up in books. It's also why we mostly play core-only.

In general, we tend to find low-mid level gaming much more enjoyable, and find that combat flows more smoothly. It's not so much I don't enjoy high level gaming, it's just that our group, as a whole, seems to do better at lower levels...

We're actually considering E6 for our next long term campaign. :smallsmile:

[Canarr]

Depends on how you feel about an Epic Level monster being "vulnerable" to (relatively) low level spells. For non-epic golems, I wouldn't have an issue. But for a monster that's supposed to be an epic-level threat, it seems a bit naff to me.


+1 to that. Just doesn't feel right to me.

Also, on the subject of collapsing a house on top of it: the thing hast DR 20. I'd say that most stones and rocks in the 3D6-5D6 damage range wouldn't even scratch it.

[Kantolin]

I dunno - I highly advocate creativity. To me, epic isn't just about always finding a more epiccer hammer, it's also about using the neat tools you have.

Plus that effect would also solve an EPIC MAGIC version of wall of stone. (Wall of walls?)

I dunno, though. ^_^ We've only been in one epic game, and it didn't feel terribly epic although we do enjoy our high-level (but extremely low-optimization) games.

If you ask me, the trouble is the one-hammer-fits-all orbs, which is whence this ruling of 'don't switch these golems over to what every other 3.0 golem's magic resistance became' comes from.

Actually, I'm curious - by RAW, isn't the golem also immune to the magical effects on your weapons? So you'd still get the +5 to hit, but once they impacted he'd be immune to the magic +5 flaming to damage?