Burning Empires Lite?

[Jude_H]

I've heard nothing but good things about Burning Wheel and its spinoffs, so I've been hankering to try a game with its engine.

There are two complications:
The game is crunchy. Really crunchy. I generally prefer lighter games like Savage Worlds or InSpectres. I'm willing to read the 200ish pages and to maybe fiddle with some of its rules, but I'm not sure I'd be totally comfortable running a game that complex, especially if my players don't have any experience with it or related systems. I hear that Mouseguard abbreviates the BW mechanics, but that brings me to the second complication.

I'm not really a fantasy buff; I have trouble taking games about elfs seriously and I'm not sure I could pitch my group a game about talking mice. I know I can mod the games, but skimming Mouseguard, its mechanics look very specific to its fiction. I don't know if that holds true for BW. I'd much prefer something that could easily be shipped to the Horror, Hard Scifi or Western genres. I'm inclined to look into Burning Empires and to strip it bare (it looks even crunchier than BW), but that's $30 around 700 pages of reading for a game I'm not planning to fully use. I could be persuaded if there's something really attractive about the system, but it's enough to make me hesitate to try it.

What I'd really like is a book or a syetem that can be easily converted into a simple-to-use game packet (10-20 pages) that I could set on the table as a complete game/rules document, without cross-referencing a separate houserules or "Game Mods" list.

So I have a few questions:
Is there a "Burning Wheel: Lite" beside Mouseguard?
If I were to try to hork the rules of one of the systems and write an abbreviated game document for a scifi or western, which iteration of Burning Wheel would you recommend?
Are there any specific aspects of Burning Empires that really shine or deserve to be included in such an abbreviated game?

[The Glyphstone]

I think someone hacked Mouseguard into a Game of Thrones setting-ruleset, though I don't have a link. So it can be done, at least.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Burning Empires is a very different game. From what I hear, it's about roleplaying, well, the sagas of empires. Probably more complex than Burning Wheel.

Rules hacks for Burning Wheel involve, mainly, revamping the skill lists and creating new lifepaths. It may just be simpler to hack Mouse Guard. Have a look at this forum right here (http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?47-Hacks-and-Expansions). I highly recommend Realm Guard, which is the Lord of the Rings hack.

[Jude_H]

That link looks useful!

And regarding Burning Empires, it seems closer to a game I'd want to play, but it definitely looks and sounds drastically more complex than the other systems.

[Totally Guy]

There is an official setting book for Burning Wheel called Burning Sands: Jihad which transforms the game into a Dune-like setting.

I believe it's a little heavier than regular Burning Wheel but not quite as heavy as Burning Empires. I may be wrong though as I have never played either this variant nor Burning Empires itself. If you're already familiar with Burning Wheel this may be what you are looking for.

Burning Sands: Jihad is available for free official legal download here (http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Downloads#Burning_Sands:_Jihad).

As it is said many times, when you start a BW game totally new, stick to the first 70 pages of the core game. When you need the subsystems (Duel of Wits, Range and Cover, Fight!) they can be introduced one by one. I would not recommend playing without the subsystems in the long term but at the start, it's far less overwhelming.

[Jude_H]

There is an official setting book for Burning Wheel called Burning Sands: Jihad which transforms the game into a Dune-like setting.
That looks like it would make Burning Wheel an easy sell to a couple of my buddies. I'll probably use it. Thanks!

As it is said many times, when you start a BW game totally new, stick to the first 70 pages of the core game. When you need the subsystems (Duel of Wits, Range and Cover, Fight!) they can be introduced one by one. I would not recommend playing without the subsystems in the long term but at the start, it's far less overwhelming.
Do you mean dropping violence completely? It looked like about half the book was about establishing fairly nuanced procedures on hitting things, blocking and accounting for injuries.

[Totally Guy]

Do you mean dropping violence completely? It looked like about half the book was about establishing fairly nuanced procedures on hitting things, blocking and accounting for injuries.

No that's not what I mean. You can use the Task - Intent stuff to cover violent actions.

"I want to get past the guard to get into the count's chamber." - Intent
"I will fight him with my sword!" - Task

The GM then interprets this. Is there a conflict? Yes, the guard does not want the player character to get into the room. In this case the GM comes up with a task and intent for the guard.

"I will keep this blaggard from entering this room and alert the count." - Intent
"I will fight him with my sword!" - Task

Whether guard is injured or killed or runs off doesn't matter so much unless there's a Belief or Instinct about it. We'd probably give a bonus die to the guy with the better armour or if it was difficult terrain, the lighter armour.

Both characters roll their sword skill and the winner's intent gets fulfilled. In this case the complication, the count is alerted, is explicitly stated.

If the player wins and gets in there and wants to duel the count we'd probably then use the fight system as this guy's a main antagonist. The guard was wasn't worthy of the screen time.

There's also the Bloody Versus but we don't tent to use that so much.

I'd say we use the task intent stuff for about 80% of violent conflicts in our games. It's a totally legitimate use of the rules.


Edit: Even in a fight we quite often skip over things like positioning. If I've got a sword and you've got an axe and we both want to be in optimal then there's no conflict and it just happens with a Say Yes.

[Jude_H]

I'd say we use the task intent stuff for about 80% of violent conflicts in our games. It's a totally legitimate use of the rules.
Okay, cool. I haven't given the rules more than a skim, but I'll grab Wheel and see what that looks like.

[obliged_salmon]

Yeah I'll chime in here. First off, Jihad is great. It has gun rules and nukes, among other fun things. Personal shields. Y'know. Dune stuff.

BW at its core is a game about non-mechanical rules. Say yes or roll the dice. Openness at the table. Intent and task. These things are more important than the crunchier stuff.

You can play the game just by having a list of skills on your sheet and a circles stat, no problem. Start small and add in stuff at your leisure, like duel of wits, fight, range and cover, resources, etc. It's modular enough that you can do that, like a 70 page game with lots of add-ons.