Help me help a new player?

[Trellan]

So, I have a new (as in brand new. Never rolled a d20 before) player joining a campaign that recently had a spot open up. Since he is a little overwhelmed by the rules, I asked him to just tell me what kind of character he wanted to make, and I'd do my best to make the character's crunch fit the feel he wanted. What I got was this:

As a child, his character was always getting into serious accidents but somehow survived all of them. He's very resilient and feels that his calling in life is to protect people (a mindset reinforced by his mother, who always told him he had a grand purpose in life). His character doesn't feel any attachment to a particular weapon, and will often just pick up something lying around or use his fists instead. His father controls a small (read: very small) territory, and he will be inheriting it in time. To prepare him, his father sent him out to wander and gain life experience. During his travels, he has collected various charms that allow him to do different things when he holds them.

Now, I have a few ideas, but I'm pretty much mediocre at making crunch and I really want him to enjoy his first time playing. Because of that, I'm turning to you all for some extra ideas. The campaign is level six at the moment, gestalt, with standard WBL. The rest of the party consists of a wizard/cleric, wizard/factotum, and warblade/binder.

What's really throwing me for a loop here is the weapon thing. Of course, monk is obvious (but horrible), and unarmed swordsage would be better, but I still feel like both of those options would leave him feeling a little lacking in the current group; especially since he wants to be something of a tank for the party. I think if it wasn't for this part, I'd be confident enough in my own abilities to whip this guy up for him. Of course, ideas on other subjects are more than welcome as well.

Help? :smalltongue:

Edit: something that just came up while talking to him on Skype: he really wants these charms to be part of his concept. Originally, I just thought he meant a couple of wondrous items, but he's basically looking for something where he can pull out various charms "the way a wizard does in a story, when they're like 'I've got a spell for that'". I'm thinking the best route might be to find a class that emulates a bunch of random abilities, and fluff the charms as his focus for those. Binder comes to mind pretty quick, but I'm not sure if it's quite as flexible as what he wants. So far, the two specific ideas he's mentioned is a charm that lets him rage and another that can make the ground shake "as if a giant was stomping or fell over".

[Divide by Zero]

That practically screams Binder. Just re-fluff the vestige binding as powering up the charms or something like that.

Incarnum also seems like it would fit well, but the system might be too much for a new player.

[Jude_H]

Mid-level gestalt with a moderately opped group as an intro to the game? Eesh.

It doesn't really mesh with the tanking part, but for having a spell immediately on hand, the Beguiler is pretty solid.

The Catch Off Guard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/catch-off-guard-combat) feat is from pathfinder, but all it does is allow a character to use crummy improvised weapons without crippling penalties.

To put the tanking and Beguiler together, Sneak Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) Fighter -> Scarlet Corsair (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b) is very versatile for a non-ToB class, should be robust enough to tank, gently introduces the tactical angle to combat and meshes well with the Beguiler's skill list and feints.

Also, you'll probably want to condense all the character's class and build information into one printout, just for the sake of reference.

edit:
If there's a mechanic that's more complex and worse documented/indexed than Binding or Incarnum, it's escaping me. I avoid both systems because they require too much system mastery to use efficiently, and I've dabbled in 3e for about a decade.

[Trellan]

edit:
If there's a mechanic that's more complex and worse documented/indexed than Binding or Incarnum, it's escaping me. I avoid both systems because they require too much system mastery to use efficiently, and I've dabbled in 3e for about a decade.

Yeah, that's another big concern of mine with using binder to satisfy the charm thing. As you mentioned, the poor guy is already going to be jumping into a mid-level gestalt game, and Binders are confusing as all heck.

I suppose there's no easy way around this issue then, eh? :smallfrown:

[Curious]

If I might offer a suggestion? Providing that you aren't adverse to the use of Pathfinder classes, I think I might have a solution for you.

One half of your gestalt can be a Magus, the new class that only just arrived on the SRD, using the Hexcrafter archetype. This allows you to be proficient in combat, and use the awesome witch hexes (which never run out) to represent his 'charms'.

[Jude_H]

I suppose there's no easy way around this issue then, eh? :smallfrown:
I don't want to plug the build I sketched out earlier too hard because it's not the most min-maxed thing around, but I think it would really capture what you're aiming for.

Beguiler 6//Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 5/Scarlet Corsair 1 with the Catch Off Guard feat

Would have:

3rd level spells from the most flexible version of the least unintuitive casting mechanic. Basically, it will almost always "have a spell for that."
+6/+1 BA.
+3d6 Sneak Attack.
Swift Action feinting.
The ability to use improvised weapons and not totally suck while doing so.
6+Int skills/level with UMD for trinkets.
5d10+d8 HD at level 6.
Nearly full saves all around.
Armored Casting.
Only one mechanical subsystem to manage.
There'd be lots of moving parts to play with, between spells, skills, feints and attacks, but he wouldn't really need to use them all at first. Just dropping a Haste spell and attacking with a greatsword table leg would produce a respectable damage output.

...It might be worth considering, anyway.

[HalfDragonCube]

Often nearly got killed in an accident but survived every time?

That just screams the Fortune's Friend Prc in Complete Scoundrel. It advances spellcasting a little and you get stuff like luck feats from it.

[Trellan]

Curious: Thanks for the idea, but I don't think it's an option. I spent about fifteen minutes checking out the class and browsing through the SRD, but I've never used pathfinder material before and I wasn't even able to find out what the hexcrafter archetype is. Since he's new, I want to make sure I fully understand whatever I'm handing to him.

Jude_H: That actually looks like a really good, yet simple enough build. I'm worried he might be a little overwhelmed by spellcasting, and I'm not sure if the flavor of the thug/scarlet corsair side fits what he was looking for, but I'm pretty sure I can sell him on it. Thanks a lot! I definitely never would have put together that build on my own. :smallsmile:

Giantmudkip: That's another good thought, but he was going more for the "I was just tough enough to get by" approach, rather than the "I was lucky" approach. So rather than being narrowly missed by a falling beam, it would have smacked him on the head without doing enough to kill him.

Thanks again guys, you were really helpful!

[Greenish]

Artificers have knick-knacks in the style of "I have a spell for that". You'd need to help him to pick and craft stuff, but it'd work.

Slap a melee guy on the other side (say, warforged juggernaut) and go powpow.

[edit]: Okay, no warforged on that backstory. :smallredface:

[RaginChangeling]

Incarnate or Binder can work fairly well, and they honestly don't require that much system mastery. There are only a handful of Binds/Vestiges that are useful for what the player wants to do, so all you have to do is take 20 minutes and go through the respective lists to pick out the ones that are the best. Then write down the important info on cards.

Like if you think Paimon and Andras are the most useful vestiges

Paimon

+4 Dex
Weapon Finesse
Dance of Death 1/5 rounds
Whirlwind attack

Just that or for Soulmelds

Incarnate Weapon

Longsword, Essentia invested = +1 attack/damage

Make about six or so cards for Binder or Incarnate and it becomes incredibly easy to learn them, and makes it so you don't have to look it up every other round. Far easier than learning a Beguiler's list in my opinion though it requires a bit more investment at the start.

[Tvtyrant]

Factotum//Binder? Gets tons of flexibility (all the flexibility evar!)

Bard/Chameleon//Binder? Even moar flexibility!

The charms thing sounds like you could also make him a Runesmith that uses runes as the "charms."

[SlashRunner]

If I might offer a suggestion? Providing that you aren't adverse to the use of Pathfinder classes, I think I might have a solution for you.

One half of your gestalt can be a Magus, the new class that only just arrived on the SRD, using the Hexcrafter archetype. This allows you to be proficient in combat, and use the awesome witch hexes (which never run out) to represent his 'charms'.

Magus? On the SRD? Link pl0x?

[Greenish]

Magus? On the SRD? Link pl0x?Here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-magic/magus).

[SlashRunner]

Here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/playtests/paizo---ultimate-magic/magus).

Oh...Pathfinder.

[Greenish]

Oh...Pathfinder.That's what he said. Why, were you thinking that new 3.5 classes were appearing in the SRD? :smalltongue:

[0Megabyte]

May I say that the whole "refluff Binder" idea sounds downright amazing to me?

Have cards with the powers on them, like was said, and you are golden. This sounds like an incredible idea! And I may steal the vestige card idea for my own game, too.

[Malkav]

He's very resilient and feels that his calling in life is to protect people (a mindset reinforced by his mother, who always told him he had a grand purpose in life).

His father controls a small (read: very small) territory, and he will be inheriting it in time.


Knight/Generic Caster. Tell him about the primitive caster and reserves of strength feats.

Edit: I avoid ToB and ToM like the HIV.

[0Megabyte]

What's wrong, Malkov, don't like hipster clerics and spontaneous renditions of Bohemian Rhapsody?

:smallsmile:

[Malkav]

What's wrong, Malkav, don't like hipster clerics and spontaneous renditions of Bohemian Rhapsody?

:smallsmile:

Mom? I told you to stop trolling me!

[Trellan]

Thanks for more great ideas! I also really like the idea of vestige cards. That will really simplify things for him. Knight/Binder was actually my first thought, so I may try to present that to him as well. The only thing keeping me away initially was the relative complexity of the Binder class, but the cards deal with that well.

[mootoall]

I dislike the lack of Swordsage in this thread. Versatile ToB character, the Wuxia lends itself to the "charms," and gestalted with Binder, possibly with a single level of Master of Masks (for the Gladiator mask) thrown in there (possibly tweaked so that it grants proficiency in improvised weapons as well) would capture quite a few of the aspects of the character. Also, maybe refluffed Drunken Master?