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The Succubus
2011-05-15, 12:42 PM
Howdy,

After a night of playing Baldur's Gate on the Xbox and a little partaking of the vine, my brother in law and I are thinking about trying a game of D&D for the very first time.

My experience of D&D consists of the OoTS comic, D&D Online and a few other RPG games....but nothing involving actual dice rolls or character sheets. Odds are I would probably be the DM but I really have no idea about how to set up a game for new people and lead them through.

In a nutshell - want to play D&D (prolly 3.5 edition) - help please!

Toofey
2011-05-15, 12:51 PM
I've only really played 2nd ed, but I think the advice I am going to give is going to be equaly helpful.

1) your experience with D&D being what it is, is actually pretty good, it gives you a decent frame of reference on how the game goes, and who sorts of plots work.
2) whatever anyone else here says ignore anyone who doesn't think the DM can do whatever the hell they want, maintaining the right to use "rule 0" is very important for keeping the story moving, and for resolving game play issues, especially when the players and DM are not very familiar with the system.
3) Read the players handbook cover to cover before you read the DM's guide, read at least those 2 all the way through, and I would advise you to read every book you're going to use all the way through. It will give you the starting familiarity you'll need, and as DM you're going to need to be satisfied with your own understanding of the rules.
4) (this is what works for me) figure out who the BBEG(big bad evil guy) is, and what their goal is, create the leadership NPC from the badguys (or the bad party whatever) and determine each of the baddies (and significant NPCs) Motivations are. This way you'll have the big picture in view and if the players play the plot the way you expect you're prepared and if (and when) they diverge from your expectations you'll have the baddies developed enough to have an idea about how they are going to respond.

Those are my main DMing tips for new DMs. Good luck, if you have issues remember that you can get help here, but also remember that it is your game and if you don't like an idea/element/rule whatever you don't have to use or allow it.

mathemagician
2011-05-15, 12:54 PM
You might check out the 4th Edition Red Box, it contains much of what you need to play a few adventures, and is inexpensive ($13.50 on amazon at the time of writing).

It's not going to let you fully customize characters, but it is supposed to act as a springboard to get you into the system with simplified rules.

Jude_H
2011-05-15, 02:36 PM
I'd generally go for a simpler system like Warrior Rogue & Mage for complete newbies (free here (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=82643&affiliate_id=5405)), just to make things easy, but if you want to go with 3e:

1. Learn the system:
Read the main books, get a feel for all the rules. Don't worry if you don't have the most complex rules memorized, just get a sense for how things work. In play, if something comes up, d20srd.org is the fastest an easiest way to look up rules, in my experience. It can be distracting to have computers on the table, but if you can set a laptop off to the side somewhere, it can really speed up play.
Build a couple characters. Run them by someone who knows the game to double-check that there's not something totally obvious that you're missing (if you don't know anyone, you could probably run them by here).
Get a buddy and run a wargame. A couple monsters and a couple characters with class levels, just to get a feel for how the combat engine runs and to identify where the rules get bunched up.

2. Start a game:

Walk players through character building, step by step. Either expect a long session, or don't expect to get much playing done that day. Maybe have some premade characters on hand as a model. Don't grind players too hard for backstories/characterization, but encourage them to have some idea of where the characters are coming from and where they want to go.
Start with a basic adventure seed. It can be really basic like "Livestock disappear, and tracks lead to a dark scary cave." Don't stress about creativity. It doesn't really matter when players haven't been exposed to it before.
Ease the players into the game. Ask them what they want to do, give them feedback on how to do it, tell them how things work out. Don't stifle player options. If they want to swing on a chandelier or kick a hobgoblin down a flight of stairs, let them do it.
Don't plan too far ahead for the first session or two, just incite some action and maybe drop a red herring or two. After the first couple sessions, look at any themes that might be cropping up in terms of what players want or seem to enjoy. See if you can use those as a springboard for a plot-scale conflict.
Don't get hung up on the rules. If something comes up that you aren't clear on something, and you can't quickly reference it, just say "This time, I'm going to rule as X, but I'll look it up/make a decision later" and move on.

Good luck!

randomhero00
2011-05-15, 02:38 PM
Help with what exactly? Be more specific OP.

Pisha
2011-05-15, 02:53 PM
Start small. There are pre-made modules available that aren't too expensive; you can use a couple of them just to get a decent feel for the game. You don't have to have a huge storyline or over-arching plot just to start playing; a couple stand-alone adventures where your players just kick down the door, defeat the bad guy, and reap the rewards will help get your feet wet.

Once you and your players are more comfortable with how it runs, you can either start moving their characters into a larger, more connected story, or you can start fresh with new characters, however works best for you.

If you want to go that route, I'd recommend "The Sunless Citadel" - it's designed for first-level characters, and it can either be a standalone episode or it can connect to a larger story, your choice.

Absol197
2011-05-15, 03:41 PM
Welcome to the world confederation of gamers, then!

Most of what people above me have said is good advice, I just have a couple nitpicks and some additional advice of my own:

1: Someone said to read all the books cover to cover. If you really like rules, go right ahead. If not, don't worry so much about it. Players only need to familiarize themselves with their race, class, and the basics of combat (and the spells they can cast, if applicable). As the DM, you should know basically about the classes and such of the players, have a firm grasp of the combat, spell, and adventuring mechanics, and a good knowledge of the DMG, but you hardly need to read it through cover to cover.
Just skim through it, put sticky notes on pages that seem like they will come up often. No one wants to feel like they need to read 500 pages in order to start having fun, right?

2: "Rule 0" is definitely something you need to use. Essentially it's "It happens because I'm the DM." Don't abuse it, obviously: Rule 0 needs to be followed by Rule 1: have fun (both the players and the DM)!

3: Continuing to repeat earlier advice, take it slow. Make your first session character building (my group is all experienced players, and we still always do this). I don't know whether you're more intrigued by the combat/mechanical aspect or the roleplaying aspect, but if it's the latter, start with backstories and character personalities, and find classes that fit, instead of starting with classes. It will help establish who your characters are, not what they are.

4: Running pre-printed modules for your first game will make things much easier, and help show you how to set up adventures for later games. Or, you could just look through them and see what kind of set-up you may need to do, and use that as a springboard. Either way, they're a great resource for a first-time DM/player, especially if you've never played any D&D proper before.

5: If you're looking for the D&D setting, you have a couple of options. If someone in your group has the books, you can do standard 3.5. If no one has the books, you'll be hard-pressed to find them, as they are no longer in print. the Pathfinder RPG is essentially a 3.5 that is still in print, and I happen to like it quite a lot. If you're looking for a world similar to the OotS world, I'd go with Pathfinder. Your other option is D&D 4th Edition. I personally don't like it, but it is a good system, and like Pathfinder, it's currently being sold, so you won't have any trouble finding the books. I find it to be much heavier on the combat side of the game, and less so on the roleplaying side, but that might just be my prejudice speaking :smallsmile:

6: Most importantly, like others have said, just HAVE FUN!!! It's a game, and a chance to hang out with friends and roll funny dice. Don't take it too seriously (unless you all like games with serious tones, of course).

DonEsteban
2011-05-15, 03:56 PM
Congratulations. You're on the right track. Thank you for choosing our product. :)

If I were starting and didn't know any system, I would probably choose Pathfinder. It's almost 100% compatible with everything published for 3.5, but it fixes a few problems of the system.

There are also many free, high-quality published modules. Just search this forum (and sub-forums) for "modules", "adventure paths" and the like to get recommendations.

Maybe you should also have a look at this thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198679

The Succubus
2011-05-15, 06:10 PM
Thanks for the advice so far.

So this Pathfinder thing sounds like the sort of thing I'd be looking for. The thing is, *all* the people who are going to be playing have no previous experience of D&D, so there's going to be a lot of onus on me to get things working. My bro in law might be able to help (he has some experience of PC-based RPGs) but it's intimidating to say the least.

Would I still need monster guides, class guides and all the rest of the stuff that would come with a full blown D&D edition, or would pathfinder have enough to get us started?

Also.....as the probable DM, what exactly would be my role? Planning out the story, dungeon maps, things of that nature?

One other thing - I've spotted a 3.5 core rulebook set on eBay in a price range I could manage. Would this be a better call than Pathfinder?

Jude_H
2011-05-15, 06:45 PM
Would I still need monster guides, class guides and all the rest of the stuff that would come with a full blown D&D edition, or would pathfinder have enough to get us started?

If you go with Pathfinder, the Core Rulebook is all you should really need to get. It has all the important rules and doesn't need a lot of digging around.

For monsters, d20pfsrd.com (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) has most of the published pathfinder rulebooks available for free, legally. You'd probably want to print out the statblocks of the monsters you're interested in using, but that isn't too hard.

Also.....as the probable DM, what exactly would be my role? Planning out the story, dungeon maps, things of that nature?
Generally speaking, in D&D the players are responsible for their characters, the DM is responsible for everything else.

Your job is to create scenarios for the characters to muddle around in. This generally means:

Coming up with a world. That can be as detailed as a fully atlased world with dozens of pages of history for each region, or as flippant as naming the town where the players start.
Roleplaying the nonplayer characters (NPCs), basically everybody in the campaign world that isn't run by a player.
Coming up with a plot hook. Bait the players into doing something.
Coming up with obstacles. This is what monsters, maps and traps are for.
Running the obstacles against the players. In D&D, this generally means brief wargames, but it could also mean roleplaying the angry librarian who won't let the PCs make a ruckus in the Unholy Dungeon o' Doom in the library basement.

5: The procedures for running NPCs and wargames is largely covered by the basic game rules.

3,4: Plotlines, from hooks to obstacles, are up for the DM to write, improvise or buy (in the form of "Adventures" or "Modules"). If everyone's familiarizing themselves with roleplaying for the first time, you could probably get away with a basic episodic hook->dungeon->resolve->hook->dungeon->resolve cycle for a while, just to get a feel for the game.

1: Campaign settings are also often sold, but most DMs like to improvise or use their own.

2: The way you roleplay NPCs and run fights is completely up to the DM.

The Pathfinder Core Rulebook also gives a pretty solid rundown on the procedures.

The-Mage-King
2011-05-15, 11:18 PM
Yeah, Pathfinder is the way to go as a new GM/player who's played several of the D&D video games.

Note that Pathfinder materials are available on Paizo's website, and you can get a pdf of the book you're looking for for... Well, about 10 bucks each. Quite a bit cheaper than the hardcover would be. I'd suggest getting the core rulebook hardcover, though. It'll be more easily passed around for character creation/looking up abilities.

The Succubus
2011-05-16, 11:36 AM
So referring to the "official" D&D editions, the three books that would be needed are:

Dungeon Master Guide
Player Handbook
Monster Manual

I have a friend that might have a spare copy of one of these he can give me. I just need to know what other books make up the core and basics. =)

Draz74
2011-05-16, 11:52 AM
I'd generally go for a simpler system like Warrior Rogue & Mage for complete newbies (free here (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=82643&affiliate_id=5405)), just to make things easy,

Yeah, I love D&D, but only because I got addicted without knowing any better. If I were starting to play RPGs today, I'd probably pick something similar. The "basic" RPG that I've been most impressed with is Old School Hack (http://www.oldschoolhack.net/).

The-Mage-King
2011-05-16, 12:29 PM
So referring to the "official" D&D editions, the three books that would be needed are:

Dungeon Master Guide
Player Handbook
Monster Manual

I have a friend that might have a spare copy of one of these he can give me. I just need to know what other books make up the core and basics. =)

Those are what you'd need. In fact, you probably don't even need the Monster Manual- most things from there are in the System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm), free and legally.


Though, personally, I'd suggest Pathfinder over D&D 3.5- the rules are more streamlined, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get the core books- just a leg instead. And as an added bonus, Pathfinder is still making new supplements, so if you decide to continue playing, you can get more stuff at a more reasonable price.

The Paizo site is here (http://paizo.com/), and more importantly, the core rulebook is here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj).

EccentricCircle
2011-05-16, 04:38 PM
Players Handbook (PHB), Dungeon Masters Guide (DMG) and Monster Manual (MM) are the three basic books.

but if you go for 3.5 edition D&D i'd strongly recomend getting the book called Rules Compendium as well. as it has all the basic rules you are likely to need to refer to as you play laid out in a logical manner rather than mixed in with the character creation rules and DMing instructions. so its a lot easier to refer to as you play than the Players handbook or DMG is.

Reading the Dungeon Masters Guide gives you a lot of information about the DM's job. what you have to do and how to do it. (Pathfinder has one too, its called the Gamemastery Guide (GMG) and is just as good, plus has lots of pre statted non player characters all of which are compatable with either Pathfinder or 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons)

other good books include the Spell Compendium, which has lots more spells. the Magic Item compendium, which has lots more magic items. and lots of additional Monster Manuals, which have (wait for it...) lots more monsters. but none of those are in any way essential.
(oh and pathfinder call their monster manuals Bestiaries. I believe there are two the first one of which is very similar to the 3.5 monster manual)

Edit:
there are rules compendiums for both 3.5 and 4e , the 3.5 is hardback with a warrior on the front. the 4e one is paperback with a dragon. getting them mixed up would be bad.

holywhippet
2011-05-16, 05:39 PM
You might want to see if there any other D&D games running in the area that you can join. Even playing a session or two will give you a much better idea of the rules and how a game should go.

Knaight
2011-05-18, 07:26 AM
Yeah, I love D&D, but only because I got addicted without knowing any better. If I were starting to play RPGs today, I'd probably pick something similar. The "basic" RPG that I've been most impressed with is Old School Hack (http://www.oldschoolhack.net/).
I'm going to support this line of thought, don't start with D&D if you can avoid it. Warrior Rogue Mage was cited as an alternative, others include Fate and Savage Worlds. Of these, I prefer WRM and Fate, both of which are free.

On other notes, if you are willing to spend a little money on a less known game, though nowhere near as much as on D&D books, take a look at Chronica Feudalis. It is brilliant, it is a joy to read, simply reading it really gets you into the feel of role playing, and you will understand it well after one reading, and be able to play quickly without so much as looking at the book from there on out, though you will read it again simply because it is amazing.

Aron Times
2011-05-18, 06:54 PM
If you ever want to DM for any system, the 4e Dungeon Master's Guide is a good buy. Instead of focusing on obscure rules and random encounter/treasure tables like the 3.5 DMG, it actually focuses on how to make a game run smoothly. It talks about how to cater to different types of players, handling the logistics of gaming, and how to keep your players coming back for more.

Maximus:Ranger
2011-06-16, 08:10 PM
What i did was had everyone roll up their stats (4 six sided dice drop the lowest die) in order strength constitution dexterity intelligance wisdom and charisma and choose there class based off of what ability rolls they got (high strength=fighter, high dexterity=thief, high constitution=cleric or fighter, high intelligance= magic user, high wisdom=druid or cleric, and high charisma=bard) I thought up a basic story line and just rolled with it making it up as i went along but making sure it didnt get too out of hand and whenever something came up where they needed to use an ability i just had them roll under the ability needed on a twenty sided die for example they want to sneak up on a goblin and choke it out, roll under dexterity to sneak up on it then under strength to choke it out. I thought it worked quite well.