Warblades!

[PollyOliver]

Hi everyone! I'm building a dragonborn elf warblade for a pbp campaign I'm hoping to join, and was wondering if people had advice for the future. I'd like ideally to go full warblade or warblade 10 eternal blade 10. Starting level is 1, flaws allowed, 38 point buy, stats currently are STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 10 CHA 8, but can be changed. There's a houserule related to multiclassing which means that if I stay in just a couple classes I get +1 HP per level, but I'd like to keep multiclassing down anyway because I want my IL high.

I don't really want to be a one-trick pony, and I think the terrain will be extremely variable, so I'm hoping to use a combination of charging, white raven boosts on allies, and the tiger claw jumping maneuvers. Enough diamond mind and iron heart to qualify for useful things later, if possible. Probably two-handing, because I've played a lot of twf-ers lately.

Any feats that would be particularly useful? How well do tiger claw strikes actually work at mid to higher levels (I've only really used the boosts before)? Will I still be reasonably useful charging without shelling out class levels for pounce? I'm not trying to build an uber-charger here, but other applicants include a druid and a psion, so I want to be reasonably capable.

[Hiro Protagonest]

For feats, I personally like martial study and martial stance, as you can use them to get maneuvers and stances from disciplines you don't have access to, yet they still use your IL and recovery mechanic, rather than the 1/2 IL you get from multi classing crusader or swordsage. My personal favorite is to use them to get setting sun stuff, it's worth a feat to get step of the wind (well, unless you took the option of dragon wings from your dragonborn) or mighty throw.

[PollyOliver]

I am indeed taking the wing aspect, but step of the wind could well still be useful if tunnels limit flying, thanks.

[Incanur]

Dex 10 seems a little low to me for a warblade. Wearing armor that reduces your speed will interfering with jump checks for tiger claw maneuvers. I can see why you went that way, but the elven courtblade would be an option if you wanted Dex. Exotic Weapon Proficiency rocks for warblades because they can switch it around.

With a druid and presumably animal companion in the mix, white raven tricks should work well. There's always white raven tactics for sheer mechanical awesome, though I can't stand the flavor of that maneuver. If you go eternal blade, consider knowledge devotion but note how your various sources of insight bonuses won't stack.

[PollyOliver]

Dex 10 seems a little low to me for a warblade. Wearing armor that reduces your speed will interfering with jump checks for tiger claw maneuvers. I can see why you went that way, but the elven courtblade would be an option if you wanted Dex. Exotic Weapon Proficiency rocks for warblades because they can switch it around.

With a druid and presumably animal companion in the mix, white raven tricks should work well. There's always white raven tactics for sheer mechanical awesome, though I can't stand the flavor of that maneuver. If you go eternal blade, consider knowledge devotion but note how your various sources of insight bonuses won't stack.

Hmm...you're possibly right on the DEX. I think it's at 10 at the moment because I'd originally been considering twf and then just reversed DEX and STR. Maybe I'll pillage a couple points from elsewhere. Point buys always make me nervous. You tend to end up with more useful stats, because you can tailor them, but if you screw them up it's on you and not the dice. Hmm...

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hmm...you're possibly right on the DEX. I think it's at 10 at the moment because I'd originally been considering twf and then just reversed DEX and STR. Maybe I'll pillage a couple points from elsewhere. Point buys always make me nervous. You tend to end up with more useful stats, because you can tailor them, but if you screw them up it's on you and not the dice. Hmm...

If you're using point buy, you can reduce your intelligence by 2 to increase your dexterity by 2 and your charisma or wisdom by 2. Or is this your stats before racial modifiers? In that case, you can increase your dex by 4.

[PollyOliver]

If you're using point buy, you can reduce your intelligence by 2 to increase your dexterity by 2 and your charisma or wisdom by 2. Or is this your stats before racial modifiers? In that case, you can increase your dex by 4.

Dragonborn and elf racial modifiers cancel, I believe. I'll probably end up decreasing INT, though I do like smart characters. Oh well. The CHA is actually intentional, though, not just a result of dumping it. He's the kind of person who purposely refuses to abide by social convention unless he thinks it's a good idea for other reasons.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Dragonborn and elf racial modifiers cancel, I believe. I'll probably end up decreasing INT, though I do like smart characters. Oh well. The CHA is actually intentional, though, not just a result of dumping it. He's the kind of person who purposely refuses to abide by social convention unless he thinks it's a good idea for other reasons.

Oh yeah, I forgot about elf modifiers. The thing about smart characters? 14 int is still above-average, and since you get an extra 4 points in dex, it's worth it.

[PollyOliver]

Oh yeah, I forgot about elf modifiers. The thing about smart characters? 14 int is still above-average, and since you get an extra 4 points in dex, it's worth it.

So it turns out I actually can't add, and I can have DEX 12 and all the other stats the same. So would you bring DEX to 14 and WIS to 12? Or do you think DEX 12 might be sufficient?

Edit: If you can't tell, I'm not used to playing STR-based characters. I usually throw everything in DEX and a mental stat, raise CON to a reasonable level, and call it a day. :smallsmile:

Also, thanks for all the help.

[tyckspoon]

So it turns out I actually can't add, and I can have DEX 12 and all the other stats the same. So would you bring DEX to 14 and WIS to 12? Or do you think DEX 12 might be sufficient?

Edit: If you can't tell, I'm not used to playing STR-based characters. I usually throw everything in DEX and a mental stat, raise CON to a reasonable level, and call it a day. :smallsmile:

Also, thanks for all the help.

Might actually be worthwhile to drop Strength to 16; you'll still be capable, and if you want higher Dex/Con/maybe Wis you'd free up enough points to that. Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8 would fit; could also go Str 18 Dex 14 Wis 10 Cha 8, and then either Con or Int 15 with an eye to raising it with your level 4 statup.

[PollyOliver]

All right, I think I've decided to go

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 12
CHA 8

Thanks for the stat help. Tentatively, I'm taking power attack, weapon focus (need it for eternal blade anyway, might as well take it when +1 means something) and either improved bull rush or martial stance (step of the wind). Not sure which yet.

Currently, I think I'd like for him to use a scythe, mostly because that's how he looks in my head. I realize this is not optimal, but with weapon aptitude I can always change it later. I'm getting armor spikes as well, since I'm picking up wolf fang strike so I can get to sudden leap.

For maneuvers, I think I'm set with charging minotaur and the above two tiger claw maneuvers, though I'm still kind of entertaining the idea of moment of perfect mind. For stances, what would you guys suggest? I expect to be doing at least some charging as terrain allows, so maybe leading the charge? (Would I count as my own ally?) Either way, is there something else that would be nifty/fun?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Leading The Charge doesn't give yourself the benefit. Maybe go with Bolstering Voice.

[Greenish]

Leading The Charge doesn't give yourself the benefit.You are your own ally.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You are your own ally.

No. Because with spells, the ones that can affect yourself are the ones with range of "you or one ally" or "personal", not "ally".

[Greenish]

No. Because with spells, the ones that can affect yourself are the ones with range of "you or one ally" or "personal", not "ally".It's not a spell, and works on "all allies".

[Edit]: Besides, all spells that can only be cast on other people but not on yourself specify so.

[Douglas]

No. Because with spells, the ones that can affect yourself are the ones with range of "you or one ally" or "personal", not "ally".
From the PHB glossary:

ally: A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to “allies” include yourself.

[Draz74]

Yes, Leading the Charge works on oneself.

Step of the Wind is nice, but it's not really worth a feat. You can get the same benefit from items (e.g. Sandals of the Light Step, MIC).

Then again, I'm not a big fan of Improved Bull Rush, either, except on Dungeoncrasher builds. It's mostly just used as a Shock Trooper prerequisite, and Shock Trooper (besides being very poorly designed) kind of forces you into one-trick-pony territory.

So I'd look around for other feat options. Something that synergizes with your flying could be handy -- Flyby Attack is probably best (and lets you use a Strike mid-movement -- which makes you even less dependent on getting Pounce!), but Improved Flight is tempting too.

As for Tiger Claw Strikes ... most of them stink. Wolf Fang Strike is great at low levels, but loses its punch later on. There are two shining exceptions: Death from Above and Swooping Dragon Strike. They are awesome.

[Hiro Protagonest]

As for Tiger Claw Strikes ... most of them stink. Wolf Fang Strike is great at low levels, but loses its punch later on. There are two shining exceptions: Death from Above and Swooping Dragon Strike. They are awesome.

Strikes might stink, but what about the Tiger Claw boosts?

Plus, Rabid Wolf Strike And Rabid Bear Strike are good.

[Draz74]

Strikes might stink, but what about the Tiger Claw boosts?
Awesome, of course. Or at least the ones that come to mind are. (Sudden Leap, Dancing/Raging Mongoose, Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip.)


Plus, Rabid Wolf Strike And Rabid Bear Strike are good.
They're pretty decent, yeah. Not so good that I would base a character around them, but not a waste of ink either. And Pouncing Charge is nice too. I guess I wasn't very exhaustive in my critique. Only a couple of them are truly dismal.

[PollyOliver]

For improved bull rush, I mostly took it because I couldn't think of much else and because I figured it would be useful for a couple levels and it would allow me to take shock trooper if I decided I wanted to later. What would you recommend instead? (Keeping in mind that I probably also can't take improved flight or flyby attack until I can actually fly.)

Also, thanks for the tiger claw advice; I usually play a lot of twf or mwf characters, so I only really use the boosts normally.

[Draz74]

You can't fly by the time you take your third feat (Level 6)? :smallconfused: Admittedly, I'm more familiar with Raptoran flight schedules than Dragonborn aspects, but I thought Level 6 was late enough for it to work ...

Well, Leap Attack is less cheesy than Shock Trooper but still a staple of high-damage chargers, it doesn't require the Improved Bull Rush prereq, and it synergizes well with flight and Tiger Claw stuff.

I'm a fan of Adaptive Style, though most people think it isn't all that necessary on Warblades.

If you're at all interested in protecting your party, you could take something like Stand Still, especially if you're using your L5 Warblade Bonus Feat for Combat Reflexes.

[The Cat Goddess]

In case nobody has actually said it...

Eternal Blade is sweet, and generally well worth it.

Get EWP, because Warblades rule the heck out of that feat.

[PollyOliver]

You can't fly by the time you take your third feat (Level 6)? :smallconfused: Admittedly, I'm more familiar with Raptoran flight schedules than Dragonborn aspects, but I thought Level 6 was late enough for it to work ...

Sorry, I can fly at level 6, but flaws are allowed. I'm not really all that sure about leap attack or shock trooper, because while I'd like to do some charging I'm not really sure at this point how much I want to actually focus on it. I could always just not take that flaw and drop improved bull rush, I guess.

Though, if you had a a slot to take martial stance or martial study at level 1, is there anything you'd consider to be worth it?

[Hiro Protagonest]

In case nobody has actually said it...

Eternal Blade is sweet, and generally well worth it.

Get EWP, because Warblades rule the heck out of that feat.

EWP is better on warblades, but it's not necessary. Eternal blade has already been mentioned by the OP, and she's gonna go into it.

[Essence_of_War]

if you're planning on taking Moment of Perfect Mind at 1st level, I think you can probably safely dump your wisdom stat for more constitution or more dexterity also.

I'd direct you here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193992
for analysis of strong feats and maneuvers.

I've experimented with a Cleric 2/Warblade 18 build that I really like. If you have at least a 12 in charisma, you get 4 turning attempts from cleric which you can use to power travel devotion 2 extra times per day to get A TON of extra battlefield mobility.

If you're going to take EWP, if you have the feats to pick up some battlefield control, I'd take Spiked Chain and combine with the tripping line:
CExp->Imp Trip ->Knockdown
along with Combat Reflexes and either Robilar's Gambit or karmic strike at some point. You'll be a tornado of AoO/tripping death.

[Draz74]

Ah, flaws.

I could always just not take that flaw and drop improved bull rush, I guess.
Usually, Flaws end up being cheesy powerups with no downside. Power-wise, we can definitely find you a feat that will make the Flaw worth it. However, I usually avoid flaws just on principle. It's up to you.


Though, if you had a a slot to take martial stance or martial study at level 1, is there anything you'd consider to be worth it?

At Level 1? Probably not. The Warblade gets access to most of the Level 1 good stuff anyway. Iron Guard's Glare or Mighty Throw aren't too awful, though.

At Level 3? If you don't mind being a little more magical, there are some good options here. Shadow Jaunt and Cloak of Deception, mostly.

[PollyOliver]

Does cloak of deception really not have a pre-req? If so, that might do it for level 3, thanks. I may end up dropping the second flaw, then. Though mighty throw does sound sort of unnecessary but unduly entertaining.

Thanks for your help.