Best Homebrew Classes to Dip In?

[Pyromancer999]

Okay, so, here's the situation:

After seeing the stats for Morgan Ironwolf in Dragon #342's "Ecology of the Adventurer" Article, one of my DM friends had an idea: Each DM group we know does the same thing, but with homebrew. Each group can submit two characters: One is completely made by one player in the group, while for the other, each player contributes a number of levels(and the appropriate feats, and such), as is equal to 20/the number of members in the group including the DM, meaning that I'm responsible for around 3-4 levels of that character. Here are the rules for the contest:

-All characters must be level 20
-Each character cannot have more than two levels in any one class
-Should you have homebrewed any material, you may not draw upon more than two base classes of your own, and up to one Prestige Class.
-All Classes and Feats must be Homebrew
-Skills, spells, and other such things are okay to select from any source.
-Two tournaments are to be held: One for the group-made characters, and one for the individual ones.
-Characters will be submitted, then assigned at random
-Should you or your character win, you get a prize(he hasn't stated what yet)
-All battles will be one-on-one, except for the final four, in which two characters will be paired up at random.

As such, I was wondering if anyone knows the best homebrew classes for a one or two level dip. Thanks.

[Jallorn]

Well, a single level dip into this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144942) class is ridiculously overpowered for the Divine Guidance Ability. It's a flavorful class though, which is why I've held onto it.

But if you're looking for more balanced stuff, a two level dip into my Swashbuckler fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156404) gets you Int to AC and Dex to damage when finesseing. And you should definitely get at least two levels of this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102456).

[Vauron]

Access to higher level Xenothuergy is determined by your hitdice, so True Xenotheurgist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122103) might be something to consider.

[Jallorn]

Access to higher level Xenothuergy is determined by your hitdice, so True Xenotheurgist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122103) might be something to consider.

On that note, a couple levels in a homebrewed TOB class would net you a handful of high level maneuvers, given the way that non-initiating classes scale. The Demented One has a few, although they tend to be low on Maneuvers in favor of other abilities.

[DracoDei]

Here are the ones of mine that might be dip-worthy:
Leap Dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143156) (but not so good for one-on-one duels unless you mix it up with summoning and such)


Snake-Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4889524&postcount=30) works for melee focused characters, and poison is actually worth the price in a tournament format.


More marginal choices:
My society members (they are the biggest link in my extended signature... you will know it if you see it), are nice enough, but sorta a drain on both feats and money. Still... 7,500 GP that basically turns into an at-will item of Dimension Door and Blink might not be too bad if you can find a way to circumvent the miss-chance from the Blink and you only use the Dimension Door in emergencies.


Artillery mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6485821#post6485821) could be good... except that almost no other PrC progresses your familiar.... then again if you can find enough ones built around the familiar that could make a good theme.

[Partysan]

Only homebrewed feats will deprive the players of very basic feats like Power Attack, and the homebrew classes are often built with such feats in mind.

[Pyromancer999]

Only homebrewed feats will deprive the players of very basic feats like Power Attack, and the homebrew classes are often built with such feats in mind.

Yes, I know. It's supposed to be part of the challenge. Still, he is apparently considering letting in non-homebrew feats, so long as they are given as a bonus feat by a homebrew class, thankfully.

Also, considering True Xenothurgist for a one or two level dip,and Possibly Leap Dragoon should I also choose a level in Sohei Adept. Epic Hero and Demigod are definitely worth a couple-level dip, and I'm also probably going to choose Snake Blade, if I can, provided our characters are given time to prepare materials. And I'm definitely going to take two levels in a couple of the classes I've made, so that can account for anywhere from 3-6 levels, so I've got around 12-15 levels, or 14-17 levels worth of classes with Snake Blade. Any other suggestions for some good homebrew classes to finish up the character?

[DracoDei]

Please provide a summary of each of your battles, or a link to one as they happen (or maybe at the end if you are feeling lazy). Play-test data is VERY valuable around here... in fact, this should apply to all the fights in this tournament, regardless of who is in them. In fact, if you aren't going to do this, I am going to say that you can't use any of my homebrew (sorry, but someone has to start taking a stand for this, it gets ridiculous around here).

[Tacitus]

Sagittarius gives Wis to AC in up to light armor, but only up to the max of your class level, and it doesn't stack with similar abilities.
Level one also offers a Wis/Day 1st level SLA from a massive list and a +1 luck bonus to a single skill, and of course Wisdom to all Ranged Attack rolls.
Level 2 offers a luck reroll, ability to use rerolls on Ranged, and an archer bonus feat.
Level 3 offers a marksman technique, and a bunch of them are fairly awesome, like adding Wis to ranged damage. But, thats level 3 and outside the bounds of this experiment.

[blackjack217]

Lighting warrior as your lvl 1 class for loads of HP

[Pyromancer999]

Please provide a summary of each of your battles, or a link to one as they happen (or maybe at the end if you are feeling lazy). Play-test data is VERY valuable around here... in fact, this should apply to all the fights in this tournament, regardless of who is in them. In fact, if you aren't going to do this, I am going to say that you can't use any of my homebrew (sorry, but someone has to start taking a stand for this, it gets ridiculous around here).

No problem. I'll write up a summary after each battle, if I can. Anything in particular you want noted, or is just the general gist of it okay?


Sagittarius gives Wis to AC in up to light armor, but only up to the max of your class level, and it doesn't stack with similar abilities.
Level one also offers a Wis/Day 1st level SLA from a massive list and a +1 luck bonus to a single skill, and of course Wisdom to all Ranged Attack rolls.

Hmmm... the guy who came up with this has made a homebrew feat that allows you to throw any kind of weapon as a ranged melee attack. I'm thinking: Leap Dragoon 2 + Sohei Adept 1 + Saggitarius 2 + that feat = ranged destruction.


Lighting warrior as your lvl 1 class for loads of HP

Is it in these forums? Maybe you could provide a link?

[Siosilvar]

Is it in these forums? Maybe you could provide a link?

You don't want a link. It sacrifices too much power for its flavor.

For those not in the know: d20 hit dice, full BAB and saves, Wizard casting, TWF bonus feat tree, no familiar.

[blackjack217]

and bonus feats and a better twf feat tree (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126747)

[DracoDei]

No problem. I'll write up a summary after each battle, if I can. Anything in particular you want noted, or is just the general gist of it okay?
The general gist would be sufficient to meet my minimum requirements. For an "average quality" review I recommend the following:
Which abilities were the most fun/interesting to play, and why?
Which abilities were the most powerful (perhaps in combination with fairly common abilities or feats, and why?
Which abilities combined with other abilities in especially powerful or interesting ways, and why?
Which abilities were hard to understand and/or ambiguously written and any loop-holes?
What abilities DIDN'T get used, and why?

If you are feeling VERY ambitious the following would be the ultimate Gold-Plated Adamintine standard (just to give you ideas of how to go above and beyond:
A step by step record of the battle (who moved where, every die roll and for what with its results), and including each


Hmmm... the guy who came up with this has made a homebrew feat that allows you to throw any kind of weapon as a ranged melee attack. I'm thinking: Leap Dragoon 2 + Sohei Adept 1 + Saggitarius 2 + that feat = ranged destruction.
Err? Leap Dragoon is useless for ranged attacks even when you get Spears of the Heavens (do I need to clarify this?). You wouldn't even have access to Spears of the Heavens anyway. Or are you saying you would save the Leap Attack for your finishing move if they closed range on you.
Also, I would PROBABLY put Sohei Adept ahead of Leap Dragoon if you want the maneuver progression from Leap Dragoon (rather than the spell list, which while nice, doesn't work nearly as well in this case). In either case you want to take them late enough to get some good maneuvers by having some 1/2 initiator progression from non-initiating classes. This may even be necessary to meet the maneuver pre-requisites for that option for Leap Dragoon.


Is it in these forums? Maybe you could provide a link?
A quick Advanced Google search of this site and I have the following:
Lightning warrior is reproduced (not by the original author) a few posts down in THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126747) thread. Note that based on reading the thread I believe that you should not use it. It is utter cheese... intentionally and unabashedly so.

[Pyromancer999]

The general gist would be sufficient to meet my minimum requirements. For an "average quality" review I recommend the following:
Which abilities were the most fun/interesting to play, and why?
Which abilities were the most powerful (perhaps in combination with fairly common abilities or feats, and why?
Which abilities combined with other abilities in especially powerful or interesting ways, and why?
Which abilities were hard to understand and/or ambiguously written and any loop-holes?
What abilities DIDN'T get used, and why?

Alright, will do. Although since it's mainly a one-on-one battle, fun/interesting may be hard to determine. Also, just to note, I may not be playing this character, at least for most of the time, so I'll try to either observe the battles it is in or get the player to submit a general report along these lines. Still, be prepared for some bias on the fun/interesting bit, as you're a popular source for homebrew, at least in most groups I know of.


Err? Leap Dragoon is useless for ranged attacks even when you get Spears of the Heavens (do I need to clarify this?). You wouldn't even have access to Spears of the Heavens anyway. Or are you saying you would save the Leap Attack for your finishing move if they closed range on you.
Also, I would PROBABLY put Sohei Adept ahead of Leap Dragoon if you want the maneuver progression from Leap Dragoon (rather than the spell list, which while nice, doesn't work nearly as well in this case). In either case you want to take them late enough to get some good maneuvers by having some 1/2 initiator progression from non-initiating classes. This may even be necessary to meet the maneuver pre-requisites for that option for Leap Dragoon.

True, True. Still, one of my players has apparently discovered a homebrew ToB discipline that might make ranged attacks worthwhile.


A quick Advanced Google search of this site and I have the following:
Lightning warrior is reproduced (not by the original author) a few posts down in THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126747) thread. Note that based on reading the thread I believe that you should not use it. It is utter cheese... intentionally and unabashedly so.
Yeah, looks like it.

[Re'ozul]

Do you want good classes or simply "Broken so much that no DM would allow them" classes for those dips?

Hero of Light (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6198519&postcount=23) for instance is a ridiculous dip (and ridiculous class in my eyes) as you can take the bulwark within path at 1st level for the second chance ability (which is basically an epic feat what with no automatic fail on a natural 1) and at 2nd level you can choose whatever else you want.

Field Medic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187927) gives a bit of things.

Invoker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153863) gives an item creation feat and the ability to make renged touch spells into projectiles. It also gives a cost-free identify and two invocations of your choice over 2 levels.

Swordmage (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Swordmage) can get you a bit more protection (Blinkplate) and SADness if you favour Charisma.