Good Tank Class for a warforged

[Morbis Meh]

Hello Playgrounders!
My girlfriend in an upcoming campaign wants to play as a warforged and our party is in need of a tank (party so far is composed of: a raptoran warblade, a gnome factotum, and a changeling swashbuckler) so I was wondering what a good class would be. My first thought is a Crusader but warforged take a hit to charisma. So I am open to any suggestions as far as I know we have access to any sourcebooks (other than third party).

[Koury]

Despite class features which key off of it, Cha isn't terribly important for Crusaders.

[tyckspoon]

Crusader is what you want. You might notice that Charisma isn't even mentioned in the class's "Abilities you might want to prioritize" section, and for good reason- the only things that directly run off Charisma are a bonus to Will saves (nice, but not essential) Smite (1/day until level 18.. again, a nice bonus, but you're an initiator class- you have Strikes to do your bonus damage) and like 1 Devoted Spirit maneuver with a Cha-based save DC. For everything else.. Crusader is the best and most easily accessible package for the primary parts of being a 'tank', to wit durability (Delayed Damage pool, heavy armor, self-healing capacity) and forcing people to deal with you (Iron Guard's Glare, Shield Counter, Thicket of Blades.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Crusader is going to be your best choice. I'd actually go Crusader 4/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Crusader+, take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) if possible (inattentive and shaky), feats should be Adamantine Body (1), Extra Granted Maneuver (flaw), Stone Power (flaw), Combat Focus (PH2) (3), Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS) (PW1), Deflective Armor (RoS) (PW2), Combat Stability (PH2) (6), Greater Heavy Armor Optimization (RoS) (9), Combat Vigor (PH2) (12), and whatever else at 15 and 18 if you get that far. Pick Burst and Grip of Iron as your powers known, and don't bother making Wisdom higher than 14.

[Greenish]

If you've flaws, Troll-Blooded is a fun way to make a terminator. Just don't go for immunity to non-lethal or you'll find all enemies sporting fire/adic pretty soon.

[Person_Man]

Cleric or Druid tank builds are fun and fairly easy to play once you've picked out your spells and Wildshape forms.

I'm of the opinion that the Incarnate is superior to the Crusader in the tanking department, but requires a PhD in order to play correctly.

[Feytalist]

While I agree with the Crusader option, you might want to take a look at the Knight as well. Nice d12 HD, some decent countering abilities, and a bardic music analogue that focuses on getting people to attack you. You also have some minor battlefield control. Only problem being, your defining class feature does require Charisma...

[Telonius]

Hello Playgrounders!
My girlfriend in an upcoming campaign wants to play as a warforged and our party is in need of a tank (party so far is composed of: a raptoran warblade, a gnome factotum, and a changeling swashbuckler) so I was wondering what a good class would be. My first thought is a Crusader but warforged take a hit to charisma. So I am open to any suggestions as far as I know we have access to any sourcebooks (other than third party).

... you have a Warblade already and still feel the need for another tank?

Personally I'm looking at that party composition and seeing, "One tank, one glass cannon, one trapmonkey/fake wizard, and no healer."

(EDIT: Factotum can heal, yes, but there's a limited number of inspiration points to go around, even with multiple Font feats).

[subject42]

I'm of the opinion that the Incarnate is superior to the Crusader in the tanking department, but requires a PhD in order to play correctly.

I've seen very convincing arguments about Incarnate builds that can take the hits, but I've not seen anything like Iron Guard's glare that makes people want to beat on said Incarnate instead of the other party members.

Do you have any builds that can do that last part, and could you like them if you do? I'm interested in seeing how they work.

[Dusk Eclipse]

... you have a Warblade already and still feel the need for another tank?

Personally I'm looking at that party composition and seeing, "One tank, one glass cannon, one trapmonkey/fake wizard, and no healer."

Warblade work better as DPR machines than tanks; not saying they can't but they aren't as suited to tanking ad Crusaders (the extra 1 HP is not enough; and the Delayed damage pool offsets that).

And the crusader is an excellent healer, with all the healing maneuvers in Devoted Spirit

[Greenish]

... you have a Warblade already and still feel the need for another tank? Warblade is more of a primary melee. It can take a few hits, deliver them for sure, but true tank it usually isn't.


"One tank, one glass cannon, one trapmonkey/fake wizard, and no healer."So you're trapped into a mindset that doesn't really reflect the game? :smalltongue:

Besides, crusader comes with it's own healing. Crusader heals in-combat, factotum between combats (via UMD).

Oh, and which one is the "glass cannon"?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Warblade is more of a primary melee. It can take a few hits, deliver them for sure, but true tank it usually isn't.
So you're trapped into a mindset that doesn't really reflect the game? :smalltongue:

Besides, crusader comes with it's own healing. Crusader heals in-combat, factotum between combats (via UMD).

Oh, and which one is the "glass cannon"?

Swashbuckler I guess

[Greenish]

Swashbuckler I guessNot seeing the "cannon" part. :smalltongue:

It actually looks like the odd one off of the lineup.

[subject42]

You know, Binder might actually work well for this. You can get a whole laundry list of weird immunities and abilities that really aren't accessible anywhere else.

[Telonius]

Not seeing the "cannon" part. :smalltongue:

It actually looks like the odd one off of the lineup.

I was trying to be polite. (Poor Swashbuckler, so much potential wasted on bad mechanics...)

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't think you need a tank, sounds more like you need a healer. Warblade and swashbuckler together can fill the tanking role (they didn't give swashbuckler a d10 hit die and full BAB for nothing), and factotum fills skill monkey and partial caster. A cleric can tank if the warblade is down, and he's a healer, so your best bet is cleric with lots of buff and debuff spells. Though first you'd have to get past the wisdom and charisma penalties.

[subject42]

and factotum fills skill monkey and partial caster.

Factotum also gets healing, so they're not at a total loss.

[Greenish]

so your best bet is clericWell, yes, tier ones are usually the strongest options. :smallyuk:

[Morbis Meh]

Considering the overall power of the party, highest is tier 3, a cleric would really make us all look bad and my girlfriend really has her heart set on playing a warforged. I do realize we need a healer but like many people have stated the crusader can do that and the factotum can do it as well. I plan on making the warblade into a DPS machine not a tank. The person playing the the swashbuckler is much more interested in a flavour character than an optimized one since she will be presitiging into dread pirate (we were watching pirates of the caribean) and decided on paying homage to the dread pirate roberts.

[Person_Man]

I've seen very convincing arguments about Incarnate builds that can take the hits, but I've not seen anything like Iron Guard's glare that makes people want to beat on said Incarnate instead of the other party members.

Do you have any builds that can do that last part, and could you like them if you do? I'm interested in seeing how they work.

Yes:

Your basic goal is to make your enemies' lives as painful and as annoying as possible, so that they have no choice but to attack you. You can do this a number of ways:


This thread (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870566/Incarnate_by_the_numbers)lays out all of the various to-hit and damage bonuses you can accumulate. The short version is that a Lawful or Evil Incarnate actually has fairly high melee damage per round once you stack all the various bonuses on top of each other.
Manyfang Dagger: Deals quadruple damage on each hit, or quintuple on a critical hit. Bonus dice of damage are never multiplied, and Power Attack can’t be applied to light weapons. But it works perfectly for an Incarnate (and for Craven, and Smite Evil). Serpent Kingdoms pg 152.
Skillful weapon enhancement: Grants you proficiency and 3/4 BAB with the enchanted weapon. Complete Arcane.
Share Soulmeld: This much overlooked feat allows your Familiar or Animal Companion to share the benefits of your soulmelds when within 5 ft. This basically doubles the effectiveness of many soulmelds.
Dissolving Spittle: Ranged touch attack every round with damage that scales decently. It's particularly effective at first level when combined with a Soulspark Familiar (3d6 ranged touch every round) or at 14th level once it's bound to your Throat and accompanied by Share Soulmeld.
Flame Cincture: Lets you absorb Fire damage and deal it the next turn as a ranged touch attack as a Swift Action. Partner with an ally, and have him dump Fireballs on you (and your Share Soulmeld buddy).
Theft Gloves: The DC for using Sleight of Hands against an object, like an enemy's spell competent pouch, holy symbol, or quiver, is fixed at 20. So a Rogue/Incarnate or something similar can do so with little to no chance of failure at ECL 5ish.
Mage Spectacles: Same story with UMD, opening up the use of Wands and Staffs and whatnot at very low levels.
Arcane Focus: Speaking of Wands, this soulmeld adds a Save or Daze effect to any spell, and the DC is based 10 + your Wisdom + essentia invested, not the DC of the spell. So buy a Wand of Quickened Acid Splash or something similar and add a great secondary attack. There's also a psionic version of this called Psionic Focus, which works particularly well for Incarnate/Warminds.
Necrocarnate Circlet: This lets you turn a corpse into a Necrocarnum Zombie (which is vastly superior to a normal zombie). There is no limit to how many times you can do this, other then the fact that you can only have 1 in existence at any given time, and a particular corpse can't be re-animated more then once. So your most powerful enemies become your puppet, and during combat if your Necrocarnum Zombie is slain you can quickly replace him with one of your enemy's recently slain friends.


Once they start attacking you, shift your essentia into Mantle of Flame and your various protections.

[Telonius]

Considering the overall power of the party, highest is tier 3, a cleric would really make us all look bad and my girlfriend really has her heart set on playing a warforged. I do realize we need a healer but like many people have stated the crusader can do that and the factotum can do it as well. I plan on making the warblade into a DPS machine not a tank. The person playing the the swashbuckler is much more interested in a flavour character than an optimized one since she will be presitiging into dread pirate (we were watching pirates of the caribean) and decided on paying homage to the dread pirate roberts.

Ahhh, I think I understand now. You basically want a Fezzik build, right? :smallbiggrin:

[Stallion]

It may not be THE best, as it requires wisdom investment, but you could try a wildshape ranger 5/MoMF 10/Shiba Protector 1/Swordsage 2/Psychic Warrior 2. Wisdom to AC, AB, and damage while being able to use Expansion (maybe compression if you'd like), a few martial maneuvers, and if you grab Improved Resilience, the ability to laugh at every attack that's thrown at you via War Troll shape (except for acid), as you keep the immunity to nonlethal damage. Since you're grabbing the physical stats of the creatures you're shifting into, all you need to boost is your wis mod.


Really wish there was something like this for intel...... there's another combo like this for charisma, but warforged get penalties to both.......

[Morbis Meh]

Ahhh, I think I understand now. You basically want a Fezzik build, right? :smallbiggrin:

Lol if that was the case that would make my character Buttercup because i am the only female character in the group YAY raptoran.