Thought on Arcane Thesis

[theForce017]

I was looking at the feat Arcane Thesis in Player's Handbook II but am thinking about playing a healing cleric. I talked to my DM and we thought we would create a new home brew feat called Divine Thesis that would be identical to Arcane Thesis except that it was intended for divine casters instead of arcane casters. Not only this but the prerequisite of Knowledge (Arcana) would be changed to Knowledge (Religion).

Please think about this and tell us what your thought on this is. Not a good idea? Broken? Sound Fair? Any ideas on how this would play out would be wonderful. Thanks for the input.

[Lateral]

It's not really any more broken than Arcane Thesis. However, Arcane Thesis itself is already pretty borked. If you don't plan on abusing it, though, go right ahead.

[gbprime]

Well since you can already spend several feats to get Divine Metamagic up and running, Arcane Thesis isn't any MORE broken. I'd have no problem adapting it for Divine casters.

[Madcrafter]

Depending on what you want to do with the reduced cost (and how good your cha is), Divine Metamagic may be a better option than the thesis. You could use both together, but that is heading into abuse territory.

[Glimbur]

The drawback to the Thesis is that it only works for the one spell. If you are a healing focused cleric and you take it at third level for Cure Moderate Wounds, that helps with Cure Moderate Wounds. In a few levels you can Empower CMW sooner than you could without the thesis, and the caster level boost means another hit point for every casting. However... in a few levels you could instead Cure Serious Wounds which is better anyway. Divine Metamagic is more flexible than the thesis.

Or you could buy a wand of CLW or Lesser Vigor and use your spell slots for things besides healing.

[Kantolin]

I would strongly suggest that, if Divine Thesis is allowed, that you utilize it on healing spirit (PHB2) or Darts of Life (Complete Champion).

Both of those spells are more unique in their applications, very good for a healer, are extermely economical (Especially healing spirit), and work extremely well with feats like augment healing and magic of the land.

[The Rabbler]

I'd just stick to Divine Metamagic. It's extremely good at reducing metamagic costs if you do it right.

[King Atticus]

Divine Metamagic is more flexible than the thesis.

While this is true, it burns up your turn attempts like crazy. My DM is in love with undead (metaphorically speaking...hopefully) and if you burn up 6 turn attempts on one maximized empowered healing spell it could just spell death to the whole party.

[Divide by Zero]

While this is true, it burns up your turn attempts like crazy. My DM is in love with undead (metaphorically speaking...hopefully) and if you burn up 6 turn attempts on one maximized empowered healing spell it could just spell death to the whole party.

I don't think I've ever actually used Turn Undead for turning (Rebuke, certainly, but not Turn). It's rarely the most efficient way of dealing with undead even as a straight cleric, and most PrCs don't advance it.

[Godskook]

While this is true, it burns up your turn attempts like crazy. My DM is in love with undead (metaphorically speaking...hopefully) and if you burn up 6 turn attempts on one maximized empowered healing spell it could just spell death to the whole party.

Except you don't do that.

You spend *7* attempts to persist mass lesser vigor and various combat buffs, and enjoy full health for every combat while the undead that would've been turned are now easily bowled over by clericzilla and his party of buffed allies.

[Darth Stabber]

I don't think I've ever actually used Turn Undead for turning (Rebuke, certainly, but not Turn). It's rarely the most efficient way of dealing with undead even as a straight cleric, and most PrCs don't advance it.

2nd this, there is very little utility in turn undead. Rebuke is great, I could see having pause about burning those in an undead heavy campaign, but all turn does is scatter any reasonably threatening undead, if it does destroy anything, chances are it wasn't worth the attempt in the first place. The most powerfull anti-undead thing that a cleric can do with turn attempts is fuel DMM'ed buffs either for your self or the meat shield.

[cfalcon]

if Divine Metamagic is allowed (I ban it, for sure, forever), then yes, it is your Way To Go. It is quite good. Also look up Nightsticks if they are allowed, to get even more attempts.

Arcane Thesis (and your proposed Divine Thesis) are pretty reasonable as long as you don't ever let a +0 LA thing become a -1, or anything stupid like that. If you enforce the +0 minimum LA, then it does create a pretty powerful spell effect, but that is all that it does.

I would suggest picking one that scales well into high levels, aka, not just a cure spell.