Need advice for a Tibbit Dragonfire Adept

[Hawkflight]

Hello everybody. I'm making a dragonfire adept for a dungeon crawl, and I need advice on how to best optimize this character. Should I multiclass, or stay straight DFA? I've got a good idea of what invocations I'm going to get, and I do intend to get some metabreath feats. The game is 15th level, WBL, flaws and one trait are allowed, and no ToB, psionics, or homebrew. Obviously battlefield control will be one thing I do (Sleep Breath + Clinging Breath?), but I also want to be able to survive and deal significant damage of my own. My character is a dragonborn tibbit and I intend to try to get a Cohort, an anthropomorphic warlock mouse (though other classes are open for debate).

[MeeposFire]

If you want to actually use breathweapons and the like you want to just go DFA multiclassing will only hurt you in that regard.

You will want the entangling breath channeling feat from races of the dragon and you will also want slow breath. Alternate these with uses of chilling fog and you will stop battlefields cold (pun intended).

[Hawkflight]

What's Chilling Fog? Also, isn't Sleep Breath directly better than Slow Breath?

[Lateral]

Dragonfire Adepts are pretty easy to do. Take Entangling Ectoplasm, and you win at battlefield control. Everything else is icing, and very delicious icing too. :smallwink:

What invocations are you doing?

[Draz74]

Dragonfire Adepts are pretty easy to do. Take Entangling Ectoplasm Exhalation, and you win at battlefield control. Everything else is icing, and very delicious icing too. :smallwink:

FTFY. :smallsmile:

[MeeposFire]

Sleep breath has an issue that it will not work at all if something has more HD than you (and most creatures you fight will and if they don't they are probably not a threat). It also competes with thunder breath which is a nice element to use since it is so rarely resisted. Lastly nothing says you can't have sleep and slow.

Slow breath is nice since it will always work. Even if you save you are still slowed thus ensuring you are always controlling. Its only competition is weakening breath which is also a good choice.

Chilling Fog is a greater invocation and it is amazing. It is the solid fog spell with damage added on. Solid fog is great since it slows all movement to 5 feet per round (so it takes forever to escape), prevents non magic based ranged attacks, and gives penalties to attack and damage while dealing 1d6 cold damage per round. If you heard that chilling tentacles are good for warlocks this is even better.

Also the entangling breath weapon feat is called entangling exhalation.

Also your first invocation should be endure exposure since it will make your allies immune to your breath weapon allowing you to use it without fear of harming your allies.

[Hawkflight]

Noted. Is it even worth getting Entangling if Chilling Fog is that but better?

[Tvtyrant]

Noted. Is it even worth getting Entangling if Chilling Fog is that but better?

Since you can do it as many times as you want I would say yes.

[Hawkflight]

Alright.

lol, I'm almost tempted to make this guy a Warforged. Just for some fun robot mecha dragon flavor. But fire-breathing kitty is just a little bit more tempting. :smalltongue:

Also, any advice on tweaking damage output?

[MeeposFire]

Plus you can use the entangling breath+slow breath combo on enemies that are not in your cold cloud (since chilling fog can only have one cloud up at a time). So if you have one large group being contained by chilling fog you use your other breath weapon to control a secondary group outside the cloud. DFAs make great controllers no doubt.

Damage can really only be done using the tiamat breath and breath weapon feats. Fortunately since you are dragon born you can take breathweapon feats (assuming you took breath as your focus) because otherwise you normally cannot take them.

[Diarmuid]

Of note, with the metabreath feats, normally those can only be taken if your breath weapon has a reuse timer. The DFA's does not.

[Hawkflight]

No, but there's a feat that gives it one.

[RaginChangeling]

Get a Dragon Cincture and then a bunch of masterwork simple weapons with least crystals of energy assault for all your breath weapon types. Adds 1d6 damage if you are holding a weapon that can do th appropriate type of damage.

Also be evil or neutral at least so Fivefold Breath of Tiamat can be spammed.

[Draz74]

Slow breath is nice since it will always work. Even if you save you are still slowed thus ensuring you are always controlling. Its only competition is weakening breath which is also a good choice.

The one downfall is, Undead and Constructs are immune to it (since it allows a Fortitude save and doesn't work vs. objects). I guess NPCs with Mettle are a concern too, but that's less common.

[Hawkflight]

Come to it ... what are my options against such undead and constructs, anyways?

[Lateral]

Entangle and burn them with your breath. Those still work, ya know. :smalltongue:

FTFY. :smallsmile:
I have psionics on the brain, apparently. :smallsigh:

Edit: And punning, I guess. :smallredface:

[Hawkflight]

Dragonfire Adepts are pretty easy to do. Take Entangling Ectoplasm, and you win at battlefield control. Everything else is icing, and very delicious icing too. :smallwink:

What invocations are you doing?

Endure Exposure, Magic Insight, Voidsense, probably Frightful Presence, Chilling Fog, and quite probably Baleful Geas (which might lead to my naming him Lelouch or some variant).

[RaginChangeling]

Endure Exposure, Magic Insight, Voidsense, probably Frightful Presence, Chilling Fog, and quite probably Baleful Geas (which might lead to my naming him Lelouch or some variant).

You should probably pick up one of the Flight Invocations unless you have some other means of flight. Strafing the battlefield with your breath is fantastic for damage/battlefield control and it'll be some of the best protection you can get.

[Lateral]

Endure Exposure, Magic Insight, Voidsense, probably Frightful Presence, Chilling Fog, and quite probably Baleful Geas (which might lead to my naming him Lelouch or some variant).

Endure Exposure is pretty much necessary with a DFA battlefield controller, Magic Insight is very nice, Frightful Presence can be useful, and Chilling Fog (as stated before) is quite powerful. Baleful Geas is incredibly powerful if your DM rules it is a standard action, but if it takes 10 minutes like a regular Geas, it probably won't be worth it.

You may want to think about taking Extra Invocation once or twice; DFAs are pretty strapped for 'em.

[Stallion]

Ditch the voidsense, pick up charm, grab a single level of mindbender, and pick up mindsight.

[Hawkflight]

I ain't ditching a level of DFA. Fivefold Breath of Tiamat + Clinging Breath is just too tempting.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

/sigh

Say it with me, people...

Entangling Exhalation may only be applied to a breath that does damage, therefore you CANNOT apply it to Slow/Sleep breath

It's still a very good feat, probably one of the best a DFA can ever get. You just can't apply it to those two breaths.

Instead, you 'twist' them. Since, yanno, you can't use the exact same breath in consecutive turns anyways. So you use your typical (or cold/lightning) breath with Entangling Exhalation. Then the following round, hit them with slow/sleep. The survivors get another dose of Entangling (elemental flavor of choice). Rinse, wash, repeat until opponents are dead.

[MeeposFire]

Of note, with the metabreath feats, normally those can only be taken if your breath weapon has a reuse timer. The DFA's does not.

He is dragoborn so if he takes breath as his type then he will have a breath weapon with a recharge.

[Diarmuid]

And thusly, those feats would be usable with his recharge breath weapon and not with his DFA breath weapon, which he can also apply Breath effects from DFA to.

I know some people argue that having one qualifies you for the feats, and then than the feats can be applied to any breath weapon you have, but that just stinks of swiss.

[Stallion]

I ain't ditching a level of DFA. Fivefold Breath of Tiamat + Clinging Breath is just too tempting.

Still possible to get...... you'd miss out on only one breath effect and still get full breath weapon damage. If you're SUPER enamored of grabbing force breath or the bahamut breath (lol) then you could go full.


Finally, clinging breath is just a metabreath feat. Enduring Breath is one of the breath effects you get for free that does basically the same thing. You can still get it with that setup (assuming Frost or Lightning Breath, Slow Breath, Enduring Breath, Thunder Breath, and Five-Fold).

[MeeposFire]

And thusly, those feats would be usable with his recharge breath weapon and not with his DFA breath weapon, which he can also apply Breath effects from DFA to.

I know some people argue that having one qualifies you for the feats, and then than the feats can be applied to any breath weapon you have, but that just stinks of swiss.

Well then wait to you get tiamat breath since it makes your breath have a one round recovery (and is the most likely target for those feats anyway).

[Hawkflight]

And thusly, those feats would be usable with his recharge breath weapon and not with his DFA breath weapon, which he can also apply Breath effects from DFA to.

I know some people argue that having one qualifies you for the feats, and then than the feats can be applied to any breath weapon you have, but that just stinks of swiss.

There's also another way that works regardless. It's a feat that can have one of a number of effects, and gives the breath weapon a recharge time of 1.


Still possible to get...... you'd miss out on only one breath effect and still get full breath weapon damage. If you're SUPER enamored of grabbing force breath or the bahamut breath (lol) then you could go full.

Wait, I can ditch a level of DFA and still get Five-Fold Breath? How?

Also, remind me, is Enduring Breath an invocation?

Also, what is the best +1 LA for this character? I get +1 LA for free, so I might as well use it.

[Lateral]

Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) is nice, and it only removes base creature flight which you don't have; that is, you can still fly with invocations or items. +4 constitution and DR 8/Adamantine is pretty good, although the mental score hits are a pain.

[Stallion]

Wait, I can ditch a level of DFA and still get Five-Fold Breath? How?

Also, remind me, is Enduring Breath an invocation?



Enduring Breath is a Breath Effect, not an invocation. Five-fold Breath is available at level 15. You happen to get a breath effect at 15.


Ta-da!

[Hawkflight]

Yes, I get that. But the starting level is 15. If I ditch a character level, then that's only 14 levels, and thus no Five-Fold Breath.

[Hawkflight]

Here's what I have so far.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=298933

Advice?

[MeeposFire]

Any reason you are not packing a mithril or twilight shield?

[Hawkflight]

Two, actually. The first being that I intend to be in feline form 100% of the time. The second being that I haven't gotten around to buying anything other than those Bracers.

[Stallion]

Hurry up and gain a level then.



However, even then, I'd still pick mindsight and grab Five-fold next level. Being able to see something intelligent coming is going to be more than just a bit more important than the damaging 'nuke'. Not to mention that Telepathy and bluff are WAY more potent of a potential combo.

[Hawkflight]

Eh ... I dunno. It just seems to me like there are better, or at least easier ways to get blindsense, like the Voidsense invocation. Plus I don't have Lords of Madness, and I'd like to be able to reference the book I'm getting my stuff from.

[Hawkflight]

Another question. Is there an item, like a collar or necklace or something, that can confer on my tibbit the benefit of Tongues? So he can talk in feline form, naturally.

[Stallion]

Voidsense is only 30 feet. Mindsight via Mindbender is 100 feet. That alone is the reason I would use it.

[Hawkflight]

I dunno, I'm still reeeeeally iffy on the multiclassing thing.

[Darrin]

Another question. Is there an item, like a collar or necklace or something, that can confer on my tibbit the benefit of Tongues? So he can talk in feline form, naturally.

Tibbits can already speak the Feline language while in cat form (and can thus provide Verbal components for spellcasting). If you need to speak something else:

Pearl of Speech (600 GP, Magic Item Compendium p. 118). Occupies the "face/mask" slot.

[Hawkflight]

Tibbits can already speak the Feline language while in cat form (and can thus provide Verbal components for spellcasting). If you need to speak something else:

Pearl of Speech (600 GP, Magic Item Compendium p. 118). Occupies the "face/mask" slot.

Okay, that's cool, thanks. Question sill stands though, is there a collar/neck slot item that can reproduce a constant Tongues effect? I just rather liked the idea of being able to speak any language. Of course, if it's too much hassle / too expensive, then I can live without.

[Hawkflight]

Character updated with a Ring of Protection +5. 43 AC, woo~