Running a brothel

[Segial]

In my current campaign, the group took out a cult of graz'zt running a brothel in a small town (around 2000 citizens). After the dust had settled the party's rogue decided to to dispose of the bodies, forge a few papers, bribe the right city officials and take possesion of the place. Since his ideas were rather well-thought out I decided that it worked. He now owns a rather spacious saloon-like establishment for lower/middle-class customers and currently employes 13 ladies, staff, a manager and a bouncer. He is rather enthusiastic about it and wants to know how much money he is going to make of the place, profits/expenses, all that, and I do not have the slightest clue how to caliculate it. Any suggestions?

[Urpriest]

The business rules from DMGII are famously horrible, but they are a decent starting point.

[balistafreak]

The easy way out is to say that compared to the profits from adventuring, a brothel's rate of income is too marginal to add anything significant. I mean, if you were able to take out "a cult of Grazz't", I don't think a few golds a week is going to make a bit of difference. In a "small town of 2000", this is probably true.

What you can do is use the brothel as a launchpad for far more profitable ventures - adventures. The girls... hear things. Pillow talk, you understand. :smallamused: In addition, make a point of not charging petty fees while the brothel is "within reach" - they don't need to pay for inn fees or stable fares or rations, the income from the brothel handles these little penny charges.

[Forged Fury]

I have a sorceress in a campaign with 5 ranks in Profession (Oldest).

[Talya]

I did this...in a game. For a long time. Sorceress, too.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Tack it on as a percentage of what they're making as adventurers? Something marginally small, like 3% or something like that. That way, for every 100 gold they make as adventurers, they actually get 103 gold (as a result of the extra gold the brothel makes them). This isn't enough to break their economy, but it is enough for them to at least cover all minor expenses they incur (including some major ones, like material components for more expensive spells later in the game).

[Talya]

I would think Malcanthet would be a better candidate for a brothel cult

[The Glyphstone]

Your party now owns a brothel and they're more concerned with the profit margin than the side benefits? You, my friend, have a very unusual group of players.

[Urpriest]

I would think Malcanthet would be a better candidate for a brothel cult

Malcanthet may be interested in the spreading of peace and love minus the peace, but Graz'zt is pretty much the demon lord of being a pimp. I mean really, the only thing in the game pimpier than Graz'zt is Krusk.

[balistafreak]

The business rules from DMGII are famously horrible, but they are a decent starting point.

Elaboration: as written... businesses have this tendency to spontaneously combust. No, seriously.


Your party now owns a brothel and they're more concerned with the profit margin than the side benefits? You, my friend, have a very unusual group of players.

Dude, you don't cherry-pick the merchandise unless you want to go out of business. Have some business sense. :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

Dude, you don't cherry-pick the merchandise unless you want to go out of business. Have some business sense. :smalltongue:

See again: Very unusual group of players. :smallbiggrin:

[shadow_archmagi]

Oh my;

I just actually looked at the business guide in the DMG2.

For those of you without it on hand, there's a "Business Encounter" chart that you roll on once a month (or twice a month depending on the nature of your business)

There's 25 options, and you roll a d20 to determine which one happens. Various modifiers come into play (Being in the wilderness is a -2, being famous is a +2).

Option 6 is fire.

So there's a 5% chance every month that your business will burst into flame. The only way to avoid that would be to have a +6 modifier, which is the highest possible, which means you'd have to be famous, successful, and in a metropolis. Otherwise your business will burst into flame every 18 months or so, give or take. Less, if you're running a high-risk business, like a pickpocketing ring.

[Aidan305]

I would think Malcanthet would be a better candidate for a brothel cult

I played one of her priestesses once. Her sacrifice rituals are fun.

[AslanCross]

So there's a 5% chance every month that your business will burst into flame. The only way to avoid that would be to have a +6 modifier, which is the highest possible, which means you'd have to be famous, successful, and in a metropolis. Otherwise your business will burst into flame every 18 months or so, give or take. Less, if you're running a high-risk business, like a pickpocketing ring.

I'd think that in a typical medieval city built mostly of wood with only a bucket brigade for a fire department, fire would be a clear and present danger.

[Canarr]

You could go with some sort of calculation of averages.

There's thirteen ladies working there, right? Figure how much each of them charges per customer (say, 1 gold, since it's low to middle class?), then figure how many customers they'd be maximum be willing and able to take per day (say, 10?). That's just off the top of my head, you can adjust as preferred. That gives you the maximum income the ladies can earn per day (130 gold, in my example).

Next, do the same for any eating/drinking area the brothel may have. Once you have the maximum income for both, decide what percentage of the max income equals the running costs (food and drink, regular medical examinations for the ladies, the manager's and the ladies' cut of the profit, bribes to town officials and underworld figures...; say, 70%?) . There's your break-even. Any guest the brothel gets above 70% of its capacity is profit for the PC.

Now, depending on how generous you want to be, give them a basic turnout every month (say, 50-80%?). That's what they get without any efforts. Then, have someone (say, the manager) make a suitable Profession roll, increasing the turnout by 1% for every point the result beats a basic DC (say, 15?). So, if you establish a basic turnout of 60% for a given month, and the manager rolls a 25, that'd bring you up to 70%, meaning no profit and no loss for the month.

Of course, you can modify the basic turnout according through special circumstances; a unit of the King's army on R&R in town for the month may well push the brothel to capacity, while a protesting group from the local temple to the Goddess of Home, Marriage and Family may drop the turnout to 10% until it blows over.

That way, it's up to the players if they want to invest some effort in order to make some cash off it, or if they're content to let it pay for itself while milking it for adventure hooks (pillow talk, etc.).

[Feytalist]

You could always combine the aggregate of each girl's Profession check (Perform check? Perish the thought), assuming they have any ranks at all in the relevant skill (and they should, really). Let's say 13 level 1 Commoners? The Madame might add a circumstance bonus? Then have some percentages fun with the number you come up with. Take (lets say) 30% of the total, and the rest goes back into the business.

It would be a ridiculously small amount though. Much better just to use it as a plot hook, as someone else mentioned.

[Crasical]

I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

[Segial]

The business rules from DMGII are famously horrible, but they are a decent starting point.

I looked up these rules, and you are right on both accounts. The income of a business is determined by a DC25 profession check, and as a high risk business it comes with a inherent -4 modifier. The whole thing is calculated as such: (check result +/- modifiers - 25)*50g. That means till the rogue levels up and invests like 10 ranks in profession (brothel manager) he will lose between 500 to 1000g a month. Maybe I'll just slap a +10 circumstance modifier on it for being well-established business and oldest profession, but then if he invests 10 ranks he would make more money out of it then the girls could resonable earn.

[Feytalist]

Also remember, there should be a matron/madame/manager actually running the place from inside, as I said. That's assuming the brothel runs on RL mechanics.

Not that I know anything about brothels. *cough*

You could always run the business through her, assuming she(/he?) has the relevant skills (which she should, considering), or have her add a reasonable skill bonus to the rogue's check.

Also the rogue could just be the "slum lord", building owner who skims his take from her.

[Crasical]

I looked up these rules, and you are right on both accounts. The income of a business is determined by a DC25 profession check, and as a high risk business it comes with a inherent -4 modifier. The whole thing is calculated as such: (check result +/- modifiers - 25)*50g. That means till the rogue levels up and invests like 10 ranks in profession (brothel manager) he will lose between 500 to 1000g a month. Maybe I'll just slap a +10 circumstance modifier on it for being well-established business and oldest profession, but then if he invests 10 ranks he would make more money out of it then the girls could resonable earn.

Maybe he could get an Expert hireling to make the check? A skilled hireling takes 3sp a day, so they cost about 9 gold a month to keep around. A madame hireling probably has Perform and Bluff and Appraise and Profession. A 10 gold cut is probably worth having someone optimized to make all the rolls needed for this profession. If you wanted to get trick, you could request that each girl in the brothel gets to roll Aid Other as a profession for the monthly roll... Most of the working girls are probably Commoners, so they're less expensive to pay (1s/day)

[Jandrem]

In a long running Scarred Lands campaign, we ran a brothel out of Shel'Zar, which is that campaign setting's equivalent to Las Vegas. Our Bard took Leadership as a feat, had his followers designated as the ladies of the house, and his cohort was a decent level rogue to watch the place while we were out adventuring.

It worked out pretty well for us, at least as a revisiting location for plot devices. We made our party headquarters out of the building, so instead of meeting in a tavern to hear about possible adventures, NPC's came to our tavern and hired us to do jobs. Eventually the place became less of a brothel, more of a guild house.

We split ownership between the party members, and each of us got a cut of the profits. The Bard got a little extra, since he spent a feat and his cohort/followers were the ones doing the work. I can't remember the specific formula our DM used, but it had to do with the size of the city, the average CHA scores of the ladies(yes, CHA isn't always looks, but it made this easier), things like that. The money wasn't much compared to what we got from adventuring, but like was mentioned above, the profits could be used to cover minor expenses, like stabling, sleeping, food, drink, etc. Essentially, while in this town, your party has free room and board, and access to minor mundane items as needed.

[Eldan]

I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

I don't see a problem with that. It's a nice hook :smalltongue:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

Man, one of the first PbP games I joined STARTED at that point and just got crazier and crazier! :smalleek:

[Telonius]

I'd think that in a typical medieval city built mostly of wood with only a bucket brigade for a fire department, fire would be a clear and present danger.

I'd think that in any city with active adventurers within a 500-mile radius, fire would be a clear and present danger. :smallbiggrin:

[Narren]

I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

If the players are having fun with it, I don't see a problem. I prefer my players to make their own mark on the world, instead of just feeding them constant hooks.

[graeylin]

make it simple.. an average business makes an X% profit margin. And since they aren't necessarily illegal, a brothel is an average business, with all the income and expenses: food, utilities, new clothing, bedsheets, protection, insurance, furniture, liquor, medical, magical help, etc.. Clients come and go, workers come and go, things get broken, windows smashed, curtains torn, bottle broken, etc..

For every 100 gold in assets your rogue invests, he gets 10X% return.. say 3% to 5% or something. So, 100 gold in, 103 out at the end of the year. If he wants to take a closer hand in managing it, increase the profit.. or if he specifically makes smart decisions (gets a known madame to operate it, pays the local guilds a bit higher payoff for protection, etc..).

[HalfDragonCube]

Man, one of the first PbP games I joined STARTED at that point and just got crazier and crazier! :smalleek:

Welcome to GitP my friend.:smalltongue:

[MarkusWolfe]

I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

That reminds me of the time my Barbarian got this crazy idea of kidnapping a Brachinae to satiate his own lust in the afterlife. His plan was to imprison her on Ysgard after a grab and run, and then to wait (a very long time) for the nature of the plane to change her into a CG, happy-go-lucky girl-next-door who liked to open her legs. There was some major debate about this; first, about whether the act was acceptable for a CG character (yes, kidnapping and putting her somewhere she feels horrible for a while, but it stops her from corrupting good people and eventually turns her good) and second about whether or not it counted as R-A-P-E. Things that should not be discussed with LG followers of Saint Cuthbert.

Never got the opportunity to go through with the plan, despite going to the 4th layer of Baator (where all the kinky LE folks go) twice.....but on the second trip, he DID manage to steal the lovebed of Fierna.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Welcome to GitP my friend.:smalltongue:

This was before I even joined GitP. It was on the old WotC D&D boards, in the infamous Mature section. Only there would you find questions about PCs running a brothel and a pancake house out of the same building, planning on paying the ladies in pancakes.

[HalfDragonCube]

This was before I even joined GitP. It was on the old WotC D&D boards, in the infamous Mature section. Only there would you find questions about PCs running a brothel and a pancake house out of the same building, planning on paying the ladies in pancakes.

The irony causes physical pain.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The irony causes physical pain.

I'm not sure I follow you. What irony?

[thompur]

Why would you choose to sell soup? It sounds really boring for an RPG. But , it's your choice. Iguess if it's really good soup...cooking is a profession. If you put enough ranks into it you could be like the soup nazi from Seinfeld and...huh? what? not soup? ...a what? Oooohhh...never mind.

[Telonius]

Why would you choose to sell soup? It sounds really boring for an RPG. But , it's your choice. Iguess if it's really good soup...cooking is a profession. If you put enough ranks into it you could be like the soup nazi from Seinfeld and...huh? what? not soup? ...a what? Oooohhh...never mind.

Hilariously enough, one of my PC's is playing an Exalted Deeds character. One of his followers is based on a combination of the Soup Nazi and the Cabbage Guy from Last Airbender, and runs the local soup kitchen. I may have to steal that pun for when they next encounter some demonic foes...:smallbiggrin:

[HalfDragonCube]

I'm not sure I follow you. What irony?

The 'Mature' section had brothels run on pancakes.

Wow, that would look really weird if someone hadn't read the other post.

Scrap that, it still sounds really weird.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The 'Mature' section had brothels run on pancakes.

Wow, that would look really weird if someone hadn't read the other post.

Scrap that, it still sounds really weird.

It was also where the stats for the Elemental Plane of Chocolate could be found.

[Seonor]

Somewhat on topic, the BoEF had a section related to your question. Pages 177 to 181.

[Etrivar]

Your party now owns a brothel and they're more concerned with the profit margin than the side benefits? You, my friend, have a very unusual group of players.

Or they could be members of LGBTitP :smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

Or they could be members of LGBTitP :smalltongue:

He never specified which gender the brothel staff is, or which tastes they cater to.

[MarkusWolfe]

The 'Mature' section had brothels run on pancakes.

Wow, that would look really weird if someone hadn't read the other post.

Scrap that, it still sounds really weird.

I don't get it. Where's the irony?

[Crasical]

I don't get it. Where's the irony?

Anyone who thinks that they could run a brothel on pancakes is not very mature.

[Etrivar]

He never specified which gender the brothel staff is, or which tastes they cater to.

He said they have thirteen "ladies". I will admit that it was an assumption on my part that the "staff" he mentioned was servers, cooks, maids, and that the ladies were the courtesans, but it seems a rather reasonable one.

[DrWeird]

In the vein of irony, I've been building a planar brothel in my spare time as an interesting accidental stopping point for a party - nothing specific, just statting it out with very tough bouncers using ridiculous builds only GMs can do while still legal by RAW, making up fluff - establishing it as a truly neutral zone where even divine rank 0 paladins of slaughter can come and chat with Pseudonatural Illithid Archivists and not-so-squeaky-clean aasimar before finding themselves a hot ticket in the old town tonight.

The bar in the first floor of the inter dimensional warded mansion of a brothel is tended by Gyagex, the Weeping God of Wasted Potential.

[LOTRfan]

In the vein of irony, I've been building a planar brothel in my spare time as an interesting accidental stopping point for a party - nothing specific, just statting it out with very tough bouncers using ridiculous builds only GMs can do while still legal by RAW, making up fluff - establishing it as a truly neutral zone where even divine rank 0 paladins of slaughter can come and chat with Pseudonatural Illithid Archivists and not-so-squeaky-clean aasimar before finding themselves a hot ticket in the old town tonight.

The bar in the first floor of the inter dimensional warded mansion of a brothel is tended by Gyagex, the Weeping God of Wasted Potential.

Is there any chance of you posting it in the World-Building subforum? :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

He said they have thirteen "ladies". I will admit that it was an assumption on my part that the "staff" he mentioned was servers, cooks, maids, and that the ladies were the courtesans, but it seems a rather reasonable one.

Fair enough. But even if you're right and the party is all of the inappropriate persuasion for companionship of the female persuasion (Though wouldn't that make it just the 'GBitp' group?), it still makes them exceptional that they didn't immediately set about restocking the brothel with their preferred brand of employee.:smallsmile:

[Doug Lampert]

I'd think that in a typical medieval city built mostly of wood with only a bucket brigade for a fire department, fire would be a clear and present danger.

Once a fire got going really well in a medieval or renaisance city it was nearly impossible to stop. Hence we have in history the Great Fire of London.

Note the SINGULAR! It was in 1666 and many of the buildings built in the reconstruction are still there. Similar comments for Rome and the great fire in Nero's time.

A big city burning can be remembered hundreds or thousands of years later, it's RARE.

They were VERY careful about large fires in cities. As a side note, bucket brigades weren't how they fought large fires, they used fire-breaks and interior walls and open spaces to stop a fire from spreading and just let it burn out. But cities could go hundreds of years between fires, 20 months is absurd, no city would LET you put something that was that large a fire hazard inside the walls. A fire once every three or four generations is more like it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Anyone who thinks that they could run a brothel on pancakes is not very mature.

Yeah, that's part of why that part of the old forums eventually collapsed. Plus the glut of "Ask a..." threads and the two roleplays.

[Seonor]

Once a fire got going really well in a medieval or renaisance city it was nearly impossible to stop. Hence we have in history the Great Fire of London.

Note the SINGULAR! It was in 1666 and many of the buildings built in the reconstruction are still there. Similar comments for Rome and the great fire in Nero's time.

A big city burning can be remembered hundreds or thousands of years later, it's RARE.

They were VERY careful about large fires in cities. As a side note, bucket brigades weren't how they fought large fires, they used fire-breaks and interior walls and open spaces to stop a fire from spreading and just let it burn out. But cities could go hundreds of years between fires, 20 months is absurd, no city would LET you put something that was that large a fire hazard inside the walls. A fire once every three or four generations is more like it.

Most medieval city also would not have access to casters with spells like quench (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/quench.htm), create water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm). Any city who could afford it would try to have some of these spells available. Be it as a cleric at a local temple, magical items for the fire brigade. For a metropolis it might even be possibe to have someone who can fly equiped with a decanter of endless water on stand by at all times.

[Etrivar]

Fair enough. But even if you're right and the party is all of the inappropriate persuasion for companionship of the female persuasion (Though wouldn't that make it just the 'GBitp' group?), it still makes them exceptional that they didn't immediately set about restocking the brothel with their preferred brand of employee.:smallsmile:

Why, exactly, would their persuasion be inappropriate? :smallconfused:

[Irbis]

Otherwise your business will burst into flame every 18 months or so, give or take. Less, if you're running a high-risk business, like a pickpocketing ring.

And this is unrealistic why, exactly? :smallconfused:


I've heard horror stories of this sort of thing utterly devouring a game. It starts with running a side business, and then the players are investing more and more into it. Pretty soon they're running their brothel out of a castle and staffing it with Golem Bouncers and magic wards, on-staff clerics with Cure Disease on all patrons coming in, and the players venture out on quests to get rare and beautiful women of all races from other countries, then other planes of existance....

And this is bad why, exactly? :smalltongue:

Building something, be it an army, kingdom, colony, etc. Tend to be my favourite campaigns.

[Talya]

Most medieval city also would not have access to casters with spells like quench (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/quench.htm), create water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm).

I question your use of the word "most" there. :smallsmile:

[The Glyphstone]

Why, exactly, would their persuasion be inappropriate? :smallconfused:

You're misinterpreting the word inappropriate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inappropriate). It's not some sort of moral judgement, it's a statement of fact based on location - A gay man or straight woman in a brothel with all female courtesans is not in the appropriate place to find companionship, thus, they are in an inappropriate place to find companionship.

You've also managed to bring the joke past -10HP and cast Barghest's Feast on the remains, though, so it's not worth dragging out any longer.

[danzibr]

[...] I mean really, the only thing in the game pimpier than Graz'zt is Krusk.

Agreed with the above.

[Canarr]

And this is unrealistic why, exactly? :smallconfused:


Well, who would run a business that can be reasonably expected to burn down every year and a half? In these 18 months, you'd need to earn enough money to rebuild your business entirely - plus whatever profit you actually wanted to make from it.

Seriously, that's like the Simpsons episode where Homer is making breakfast for Mr. Burns, and the cornflakes & milk bowl spontaneously bursts into flames.

[Irbis]

Well, who would run a business that can be reasonably expected to burn down every year and a half?

My quote specifically mentioned pickpocketing ring. You really can't think of a reason why it would be torched often? :smallconfused:


In these 18 months, you'd need to earn enough money to rebuild your business entirely - plus whatever profit you actually wanted to make from it.

Well, it's not like they are expensive to run or bring little profits... :smalltongue:

[shadow_archmagi]

My quote specifically mentioned pickpocketing ring. You really can't think of a reason why it would be torched often? :smallconfused:


Actually, a crime ring is High Risk. That's TWO 5% chances of burning down. As well as odds of attracting monsters, competition, thieves, and so on.

[Irbis]

Actually, a crime ring is High Risk. That's TWO 5% chances of burning down. As well as odds of attracting monsters, competition, thieves, and so on.

Um, I'd put "torching" under competition/law enforcement, too :P

That was my point from the start, actually.

[Etrivar]

You've also managed to bring the joke past -10HP and cast Barghest's Feast on the remains, though, so it's not worth dragging out any longer.

Sorry :smallfrown::smallredface:


Do I at least get XP for the kill? :smallconfused::smallbiggrin:

[Venom3053000]

of couse you get exp :smallbiggrin:

i agree plot hooks and an minor amount of money seem like great things.

you really just need to decide much they charge, many time a night they work, if there is other entertainment at the brothel, and how much you can impove the building and employee roster in the city because you should worry about your competition who might not like that your starting to get their money.

oh and paying money to the local guildes for protection money

of couse this might just be more then you went to think all this :smallbiggrin:

edit'd for errors

[stainboy]

oh and paying money to the local guildes for protection money


If you're bored and need a plot hook, stat up a bunch of elite rogues, assassins, and unseen seers who inexplicably work for a small town thieves' guild. Then have one of them ask the PCs for 5 gold in protection money. It's a guaranteed bloodbath and the players will think it was their idea.

[Canarr]

My quote specifically mentioned pickpocketing ring. You really can't think of a reason why it would be torched often? :smallconfused:


Actually, no, I can't. In my mind, running a pickpocket ring wouldn't even need a fixed location that someone could torch. In this case, I'd replace "Fire" as incident with, "Someone making a point of busting your cutpurses".

But, yeah: I misinterpreted your post by fixating on the first sentence, rather than on the second, so sorry for that. Although you could've made it a bit more clear that you meant to talk about the pickpocketing ring, to avoid my confusion... :smallwink:

[FelixG]

Whats really entertaining to imagine is that you could have a business with no fire involved in the daily operation or lighting (use everburning torches!) and STILL you have a 5% chance of your business going up in flames

[Doug Lampert]

If you're bored and need a plot hook, stat up a bunch of elite rogues, assassins, and unseen seers who inexplicably work for a small town thieves' guild. Then have one of them ask the PCs for 5 gold in protection money. It's a guaranteed bloodbath and the players will think it was their idea.

Ah, but this isn't just ANY small town, this is a town of 2,000 or so where there's a lower class brothel described as "a rather spacious saloon-like establishment for lower/middle-class customers and currently employes 13 ladies, staff, a manager and a bouncer."

Assuming that "staff" includes a reasonable minimum of two cooks and five maids/laundresses this is at least 22 employees, or OVER 1% of the ENTIRE population of the town!

How many unmarried girls between the ages of 14 and 60 do you expect in a town of only 2,000? Now subtract the minors still living with parents, those employed as maids, staff, or craftsmen, ext...

The staff of this ONE establishment could easily be a majority of the candidates unless there's something going on that makes single girls looking for work unusually common. And presumably there's someplace comparable for the upper crust and then there are probably street-walkers and the like.

Prostitution is one of the major industries of this town! Quite possibly it's the MAIN industry.

Now, try to imagine social or economic setups where this is justified.

Port town, of course there's a mob!
Girls have such a high dowry requirement that marriage is out of the question for many? That implies a large underclass desperate enough to turn to crime.
Lots of transients, ditto the mob.

An "inexplicably" large mob is practically de rigor for there to be this much prostitution in this small a town. Whatever makes prostitution constitute a major industry will probably also make the mob bigger.

[Irbis]

Whats really entertaining to imagine is that you could have a business with no fire involved in the daily operation or lighting (use everburning torches!) and STILL you have a 5% chance of your business going up in flames

*shrug* who says it needs to be fire? Could be war, flood, dishonest contractors, infestation, disease, etc.


Assuming that "staff" includes a reasonable minimum of two cooks and five maids/laundresses this is at least 22 employees, or OVER 1% of the ENTIRE population of the town!

How many unmarried girls between the ages of 14 and 60 do you expect in a town of only 2,000? Now subtract the minors still living with parents, those employed as maids, staff, or craftsmen, ext...

150-400? :smallconfused:


The staff of this ONE establishment could easily be a majority of the candidates unless there's something going on that makes single girls looking for work unusually common. And presumably there's someplace comparable for the upper crust and then there are probably street-walkers and the like.

Upper crust can easily be satisfied by 1-5 women. Upper class courtesans don't grow on trees, you know.


Prostitution is one of the major industries of this town! Quite possibly it's the MAIN industry.

Now, try to imagine social or economic setups where this is justified.

Um, non-prude population? :smallconfused:

Or simply a town devoted to god/goddess with sexuality, love, fertility or something similar in their portfolio? :smallconfused:

Why does it need mob for that? A lot of places famed for brothels had very low crime rate, you know, precisely because due to legality mob was unneeded or because law enforcement was stricter in such places.

[Gnaeus]

Prostitution is one of the major industries of this town! Quite possibly it's the MAIN industry.

Now, try to imagine social or economic setups where this is justified.

Port town, of course there's a mob!
Girls have such a high dowry requirement that marriage is out of the question for many? That implies a large underclass desperate enough to turn to crime.
Lots of transients, ditto the mob.

An "inexplicably" large mob is practically de rigor for there to be this much prostitution in this small a town. Whatever makes prostitution constitute a major industry will probably also make the mob bigger.

I think thats a good point, but there are a couple of other likely options in D&D world.

One is a town built on exploiting a new resource. This is like a wild west/gold rush town, but could be based on any recently discovered high value commodity or dangerous place to live. Basically, no one has lived there long enough to have families, the population is overwhelmingly single male (or married male with wives living elsewhere), mostly employed by the exploitation of the resource. This could be a lawless crime ridden town, but it could also be a "company town", tightly controlled by a guild, nobleman, or strong-man.

It could also be a border outpost. Either a Keep on the Borderlands type fort, or a new settlement on the edge of hostile territory. Again, likely overwhelmingly single male (or married male with wives living elsewhere), although now it is mostly military. This would likely be a very rigidly controlled environment. The Brothel or tavern would plausibly be allowed, to keep morale high, but a large mob presence would be noticed and exterminated.

[otakuryoga]

hmmmm, surprised no one has mentioned yet....

since the followers of grazz'tt were running this place(presumably to fund other naughty plans elsewhere)(or kidnap/bribe customers)
....dont you think they may come looking for those responsible for their loss of income/victims/info?

[Doug Lampert]

150-400? :smallconfused:

500 is a good approximation of the TOTAL number of adult women from 14-60in the entire town, and you expect 400 of them to be both otherwise unemployed and unmarried? Seriously?

You don't think ANY of the women have a real job, or are busy taking care of children? Or work as a maid? Or are PREGNANT for that matter?

Because your estimate indicates that you basically think 100% of the adult women are available for prostitution.



Um, non-prude population? :smallconfused:

Or simply a town devoted to god/goddess with sexuality, love, fertility or something similar in their portfolio?

In which case prostitution is a HOBBY not a profession! Or a temple activity not something you do in a brothel. Secular brothels REQUIRE that sex be at least somewhat supressed in the culture to exist.

Seriously, if they all want to have sex constantly because they worship a sex goddess are whatever, then why do the women need a brothel? Their own homes will do, or any tavern, or any streetcorner, or the customer's house, or their parent's house (hi mom! I brought this random guy I met home, he's willing to pay me!). Or whatever, the public repression of unmarried sex is NECCESSARY for the brothel to exist, without it why bother?

DougL

[Doug Lampert]

I think thats a good point, but there are a couple of other likely options in D&D world.

One is a town built on exploiting a new resource. This is like a wild west/gold rush town, but could be based on any recently discovered high value commodity or dangerous place to live. Basically, no one has lived there long enough to have families, the population is overwhelmingly single male (or married male with wives living elsewhere), mostly employed by the exploitation of the resource. This could be a lawless crime ridden town, but it could also be a "company town", tightly controlled by a guild, nobleman, or strong-man.

It could also be a border outpost. Either a Keep on the Borderlands type fort, or a new settlement on the edge of hostile territory. Again, likely overwhelmingly single male (or married male with wives living elsewhere), although now it is mostly military. This would likely be a very rigidly controlled environment. The Brothel or tavern would plausibly be allowed, to keep morale high, but a large mob presence would be noticed and exterminated.

Company town and Garrison town are both likely to not look kindly on wandering heavily armed vagabonds taking over the brothel. And in the case of heavy control the man in charge is likely to want a cut and be much more effectively demanding than any mere mafia.

DougL

[Gnaeus]

Company town and Garrison town are both likely to not look kindly on wandering heavily armed vagabonds taking over the brothel. And in the case of heavy control the man in charge is likely to want a cut and be much more effectively demanding than any mere mafia.



They might want a cut, but they wouldn't burn it down.

Also, assuming that your PCs are normal enough that their first action is to raid and destroy any large threats near the town, there is every possibility that a garrison may want you there, so that you keep your monster slaying where it benefits their long term survival.

[Earl William]

The 'Mature' section had brothels run on pancakes.

Wow, that would look really weird if someone hadn't read the other post.

Can I sig that?


Her sacrifice rituals are fun.
"Fun" sacrificial rituals? What do those entail?

Clown makeup? No that makes it worse. Much worse. *shudder*

[Irbis]

500 is a good approximation of the TOTAL number of adult women from 14-60in the entire town, and you expect 400 of them to be both otherwise unemployed and unmarried? Seriously?

Yeah, you seriously propose there will be 400 adult women in 2000+ town? :smallconfused:

In town that size, there should be ~1050 women, more if young men find themselves conscripted, but it's a baseline. After age cutoff we got about 900 minimum - out of which 150-400 is about 10-40%, typical unmarried. Where do you see the problem? Daughters helping parents in farm-work aren't employed by any standard, and there will be at least 200 of them.

Not every society demands 100% monogamy, you know.

And, you know, technically, nothing forbids married women from working in brothels. Save for prudeness of society. You know we have such cultures around even without divine commandments? :smallconfused:


You don't think ANY of the women have a real job, or are busy taking care of children? Or work as a maid? Or are PREGNANT for that matter?

And? You can easily combine many jobs with working in brothel. Pregnant? They're unmarried, remember? Contraceptives?


In which case prostitution is a HOBBY not a profession! Or a temple activity not something you do in a brothel. Secular brothels REQUIRE that sex be at least somewhat supressed in the culture to exist.

Hobby? Why? :smallconfused:

Everything you get pay for is work. Everything. Unless you postulate village dedicated to god of fields has no farmers, just hobbyists.


Seriously, if they all want to have sex constantly because they worship a sex goddess are whatever, then why do the women need a brothel? Their own homes will do, or any tavern, or any streetcorner, or the customer's house, or their parent's house (hi mom! I brought this random guy I met home, he's willing to pay me!). Or whatever, the public repression of unmarried sex is NECCESSARY for the brothel to exist, without it why bother?

Um, constantly? What? :smallconfused:

No one said you you postulate in whole above paragraph. Quote, please.

All you need is society where such occupation doesn't raise eyebrows. That's all. Why combine? Exactly the same reasons other crafts begun to concentrate into guilds/workshops. Regulation, safety, uniform prices. Public repression? What? Brothels function best where there is no repression, where they are just another business. Like in real life.

Well, unless you postulate restaurants and pubs can't exist without society repressing home cooking.

[Earl William]

And? You can easily combine many jobs with working in brothel.


Why would you want to? I don't think "Gee, I need a side job, I'll go be a hooker" is a very common thought process.

[Irbis]

Why would you want to? I don't think "Gee, I need a side job, I'll go be a hooker" is a very common thought process.

In our culture, yes. There are a lot of cultures, however, where quick side "job" adds nicely to profit from your main one. Your view is tainted by society you lived on, just look at your usage of pejorative world for pretty much normal activity.

Plus, in real world, it just so happens people do stuff they don't like to, I don't know, put something to eat on the table. This goes double for medieval societies without our post-scarcity caused by mass production and modern farming.

[Encryptedmind]

I question your use of the word "most" there. :smallsmile:

I laughed so hard i lost of my Dr pepper out of my nose


:note to self DP + nose = burn

[Runestar]

And, you know, technically, nothing forbids married women from working in brothels. Save for prudeness of society. You know we have such cultures around even without divine commandments?

The funny thing is that there are in fact communities where the women are pretty much encouraged to prostitute themselves to support their families. For some reason, the men can't find work or don't want to, so they simply laze around or act as pimps. :smalleek:

Fact sometimes really is weirder than fiction. :smallconfused:

[Irbis]

The funny thing is that there are in fact communities where the women are pretty much encouraged to prostitute themselves to support their families. For some reason, the men can't find work or don't want to, so they simply laze around or act as pimps. :smalleek:

Fact sometimes really is weirder than fiction. :smallconfused:

Yeah, but I meant something more... equal. As seen from the point of society that doesn't posses that taboo.

Any form of exploiting/enslaving others fills me with rage and despise.

[Marnath]

Why would you want to? I don't think "Gee, I need a side job, I'll go be a hooker" is a very common thought process.

Only because it's illegal where you live. Replace "hooker" with "stripper" though, and that's not incredibly uncommon. If legal prostitution existed, at least some girls would go for it.

[Talya]

Only because it's illegal where you live. Replace "hooker" with "stripper" though, and that's not incredibly uncommon. If legal prostitution existed, at least some girls would go for it.

Hey, "Registered Companion," anyone? Inara made it glamorous. Was a time I might have considered the job - before husband and children came into the picture.

Shiny!

[Telonius]

hmmmm, surprised no one has mentioned yet....

since the followers of grazz'tt were running this place(presumably to fund other naughty plans elsewhere)(or kidnap/bribe customers)
....dont you think they may come looking for those responsible for their loss of income/victims/info?

If they do, the demon's name must be Guido (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086200/).

[Earl William]

In our culture, yes. There are a lot of cultures, however, where quick side "job" adds nicely to profit from your main one. Your view is tainted by society you lived on, just look at your usage of pejorative world for pretty much normal activity.

Plus, in real world, it just so happens people do stuff they don't like to, I don't know, put something to eat on the table. This goes double for medieval societies without our post-scarcity caused by mass production and modern farming.

Fair enough. Just hard to wrap my head around it I guess.


Yeah, but I meant something more... equal. As seen from the point of society that doesn't posses that taboo.

Any form of exploiting/enslaving others fills me with rage and despise.

Well, the OP's brothel was run by demon cultists, who are known for their workplace relations, just not in a good way. So worry about that.

Also, no one's mentioned how many unemployed young men are around. No reason a brothel can't be gender-equal. Selling to twice the people = twice the money.

[stainboy]

Company town and Garrison town are both likely to not look kindly on wandering heavily armed vagabonds taking over the brothel. And in the case of heavy control the man in charge is likely to want a cut and be much more effectively demanding than any mere mafia.

DougL

Speaking of which, in a town of 2000 people, there's probably no distinction between the mob and the government. They would have joined forces, or one would have subverted the other. The mob legbreaker demanding protection money is a reeve collecting taxes to fund the militia. The difference is just semantics.

2000 people is too small to have any huge secrets. Whoever the law is in this town, they're the kind of people who put up with a demon-worshiping cult of sufficient power to justify PC involvement. They're grade-A scumbags and probably indistinguishable from organized crime.

[Marnath]

Speaking of which, in a town of 2000 people, there's probably no distinction between the mob and the government. They would have joined forces, or one would have subverted the other. The mob legbreaker demanding protection money is a reeve collecting taxes to fund the militia. The difference is just semantics.

2000 people is too small to have any huge secrets. Whoever the law is in this town, they're the kind of people who put up with a demon-worshiping cult of sufficient power to justify PC involvement. They're grade-A scumbags and probably indistinguishable from organized crime.

You're assuming the cult lived there openly, which is generally not the case in situations like that. The powers that be probably didn't know about the cult.

[Eric Tolle]

Actually, a crime ring is High Risk. That's TWO 5% chances of burning down.

FWIW, a 5% chance per month translates into a 60% chance of burning down over 18 months. With two 5% chances, that comes to around an 86% chance of the brothel burning down. I suppose you can chalk it up to the weird probability field that surrounds adventurers. "That client in room 3? He turned out to be a red dragon. It wasn't a happy ending for anyone."

Also, not that I'm going to do the math, but that seems like a rather large brothel for a town of 2000. Unless it's on a trade route, highway, or port. In which a distinction could be made between "visitors" and "regulars".

[Aron Times]

*eats popcorn* How did I miss this thread?


100% of the adult women are available for prostitution.
In before Borat references.

[Calimehter]

RE: The burning down every 18 months

Stop and calculate just how many flammable items can be found in the town by the DMG rules. Flasks of lamp oil, alchemists fire, low-level fire magic, etc. . . . it all starts to rapidly outnumber the entire towns population once it is all added up. Frankly, its amazing that there are any towns at all that haven't burned down, given the sheer quantity of flammables and ignition sources available to every man, woman, and small child. :smallbiggrin:

Not to mention that every so often a bunch of adventurers wander by that are often *deliberately* careless with such items.

[Ravens_cry]

If I was the player, I would see about cutting some kind of deal with a local temple. They get so many Hail Palors (or gold if they insist), the girls (and guys, no good business person leaves a potential market untapped, no pun intended for once) get Remove Disease spells once a week/month. Having your workers have a reputation for cleanliness is good for business and good for your workers too. Win/Win.