Weapon styles from complete warrior

[slaydemons]

I was wondering about these are they worth it? Some of them seem good like the crescent moon style and such but I almost never hear of anyone speak of them.

[Greenish]

Some of them are good (three mountains), some okay (high sword low axe) and some attrocious (bear fang). All of them have looooong list of prerequisites seemingly designed to keep fighters from multiclassing, and most of them are based on TWF with two different weapons.

[Keld Denar]

Three Mountains is probably universally considered the best one of them. Lightning Maces is generally considered the most exploitable with questionable interpretations of the Aptitude weapon enhancement.

The main issue with them is that they require a TON of pretty crappy feats. You generally have to TWF for them as well, which is generally a bad option, especially with mis-matched weapons that both require Weapon Focus...

[Malkav]

I had an AC build that used quick-staff style. He was an abjurant champion too though.

[AslanCross]

The Jack B Quick build uses High Sword Low Axe as its primary trick.

As has been mentioned, the difficulty of these feats comes in their horrible prerequisites.

[slaydemons]

these seem like feats I should just give if their building it. so to if someone used a dagger and long sword and focused on that I should give the style to them to them as soon as they get all of the feats

[Greenish]

The Jack B Quick build uses High Sword Low Axe as its primary trick.Jack B Quick has too many feats to burn. :smalltongue:

[AslanCross]

these seem like feats I should just give if their building it. so to if someone used a dagger and long sword and focused on that I should give the style to them to them as soon as they get all of the feats

I think the opposite--give the Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec feats for free. Have the Weapon Style feat cost a slot.

[Person_Man]

Anvil of Thunder is noteworthy in that it's a Daze effect, and nothing is immune to Daze. It's similar to Dire Flail Smash, but vastly weaker then Boomerang Daze.

[balistafreak]

Anvil of Thunder is noteworthy in that it's a Daze effect, and nothing is immune to Daze. It's similar to Dire Flail Smash, but vastly weaker then Boomerang Daze.

To be fair, Boomerang Daze is preposterous. DC scaling on damage to avoid dazing? Geez.

[TroubleBrewing]

I like Hammer's Edge, personally. It's not the greatest, but it made our party's Tripper look silly on one or two occasions.

[Cog]

Spinning Halberd basically amounts to a Haste-style extra attack that arguably stacks with Haste. I wouldn't say it's worth the feats to get it, but if you have some of them already from being a Ranger or opportunity attacker, it's less of a pinch.

[Fitz10019]

these seem like feats I should just give if their building it. so to if someone used a dagger and long sword and focused on that I should give the style to them to them as soon as they get all of the feats

So, instead of waving some of the feat requirements, you keep the requirements and wave the feat that grants the fighting style. That blows my mind. I like it.

[Malkav]

I like weapon and torch for flair. Not sure which book it is in, but I love it.

[slaydemons]

I like weapon and torch for flair. Not sure which book it is in, but I love it.

its, I believe in lord of the rings, fellowship of the ring I could be wrong, but it was in the movies as well. :smalltongue:


So, instead of waving some of the feat requirements, you keep the requirements and wave the feat that grants the fighting style. That blows my mind. I like it.

In a good way?

[gallagher]

i like the net and trident, but it only works for builds with medium or large sized characters. it is basically: Throw net, if successful, get your whole full attack with your trident. this is good for a few reasons.

1: the net attack pretty much cost you nothing
2: when properly netted, people are easier to hit
3: you can either control the net and attack one handed, or you can drop the net, attack two handed, and ask your DM politely if you are allowed to pick the net back up afterwards (i personally have no idea)

the feat tax is high, but so is it with all the other weapon style feats

[Malkav]

i like the net and trident

I played in a drow game where I used net and trident. I started fights with a harpoon from the back of my lizard then went into net & trident.

[Cieyrin]

Anvil of Thunder is noteworthy in that it's a Daze effect, and nothing is immune to Daze. It's similar to Dire Flail Smash, but vastly weaker then Boomerang Daze.

Nothing is immune to Daze? Since when? There are a couple ways to get Daze immunity, like Mark of the Dauntless.

Besides that, I do rather like Anvil of Thunder, along with Three Mountains, given they let you get conditions off, which can be few and far-between for non-gishes. Axespike is what Spinning Halberd should have been, at least in terms of prereqs. I just find it useful when combined with a Longaxe for that threatened area control you're using spiked armor for, anyways, plus a flurry ability that doesn't cost all your attacks their accuracy.


So, instead of waving some of the feat requirements, you keep the requirements and wave the feat that grants the fighting style. That blows my mind. I like it.

That's...not exactly something new, as that's how Martial Arts Masteries from Oriental Adventures does it and how I thought Weapon Styles should have worked as well. I have a small project I work on off and on that was updating the old Masteries, as well as the ones in Dragon and bringing the Weapon Styles into the fold. I may get back into that and posting what I have if there's interest.


its, I believe in lord of the rings, fellowship of the ring I could be wrong, but it was in the movies as well. :smalltongue:

It's in Dungeonscape, actually. Probably semi-inspired by Aragorn, I'm sure. :smalltongue:

[Crow]

I played in a drow game where I used net and trident. I started fights with a harpoon from the back of my lizard then went into net & trident.

Net and Trident is one of the often overlooked methods that I personally love. I am still bitter about how crappy Bear Fang is though.

[Person_Man]

i like the net and trident, but it only works for builds with medium or large sized characters. it is basically: Throw net, if successful, get your whole full attack with your trident. this is good for a few reasons.

1: the net attack pretty much cost you nothing
2: when properly netted, people are easier to hit
3: you can either control the net and attack one handed, or you can drop the net, attack two handed, and ask your DM politely if you are allowed to pick the net back up afterwards (i personally have no idea)

the feat tax is high, but so is it with all the other weapon style feats

It's a nifty idea. But like most of the Weapon style feats, the total benefit is basically 1 bonus attack. There is no reason to spend 3ish+ feats to get one bonus attack, when there are plenty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) of 1 to 1 ratio feats out there (TWF, Shape Soulmeld, Snapkick, various racial feats).




Nothing is immune to Daze? Since when? There are a couple ways to get Daze immunity, like Mark of the Dauntless.


Mark of the Dauntless? The Eberron specific Dragonmark, which almost no one uses?

How many enemies are there in all of the Monster Manuals and splat books that are immune to Daze by default? I'm guessing it's in the 0-3 range. That makes Daze vastly superior to things like Trip, Grapple, or Stun, which many things are immune to or highly resistant to.

[gallagher]

It's a nifty idea. But like most of the Weapon style feats, the total benefit is basically 1 bonus attack. There is no reason to spend 3ish+ feats to get one bonus attack, when there are plenty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) of 1 to 1 ratio feats out there (TWF, Shape Soulmeld, Snapkick, various racial feats).

yes, i quite agree it is sub-optimal, but let us look at the prereqs.
DEX 15, EWP(Net), TWF, and weapon focus (trident).

the character probably already took all of them except WF when they created the character, because a net-and-trident gladiator is just cool looking. so the only feat that you are sinking into something that you would otherwise probably not take for this character is weapon focus. and while snap kick adds an extra attack, i dont see what would be stopping someone from utilizing that feat as well.

i just wonder if one can drop the net long enough to make the full attack, then pick it back up as some sort of free/swift action

[Cieyrin]

Mark of the Dauntless? The Eberron specific Dragonmark, which almost no one uses?

How many enemies are there in all of the Monster Manuals and splat books that are immune to Daze by default? I'm guessing it's in the 0-3 range. That makes Daze vastly superior to things like Trip, Grapple, or Stun, which many things are immune to or highly resistant to.

I'm not saying the feat is useless, I was just saying the assertion that dazing is unblockable isn't accurate, considering the work that went into getting around Celerity's drawbacks has proven otherwise. It's valuable against stock creatures, yes, but boss critters, the ones the DM has gone to the trouble of optimizing, probably have some defenses in place, whether that just be a good AC, strong Fort save or gone the trouble of seeking out immunity to Daze and Stun.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I had an AC build that used quick-staff style. He was an abjurant champion too though.

Hmm... curse you Malkav, now I'm brewing on another quirky gish build. I sure hope that the Quarterstaff is a shadow hand weapon.:smallbiggrin:

That being said, that weapon style shouldn't be too hard to get via heroics for a gish, but I'm still toying with things over here.

[Cog]

I sure hope that the Quarterstaff is a shadow hand weapon.
Nope. It is on the Setting Sun list.

[Tokuhara]

In a side campaign in Kingdoms of Kalamak, I am running a Viletooth Lizardfolk Gladiator who uses the Net/trident combination. Combined with snap kick, I'm just tripping, stabbing, then stomping on their face. So Much Fun

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Nope. It is on the Setting Sun list.

Well, poo. However, +1 Aptitude/+1 Aptitude Quarterstaff solves that little problem.:smallbiggrin: Although, that does mean grabbing (and actually using!) Combat Expertise.:smallyuk:

[Cieyrin]

Well, poo. However, +1 Aptitude/+1 Aptitude Quarterstaff solves that little problem.:smallbiggrin: Although, that does mean grabbing (and actually using!) Combat Expertise.:smallyuk:

See if your DM of choice will let you roll Improved Combat Expertise in, as it's seriously stupid they put a limiter on it.

[Greenish]

yes, i quite agree it is sub-optimal, but let us look at the prereqs.
DEX 15, EWP(Net), TWF, and weapon focus (trident).You don't need TWF or EWP to be a retiarius. Net is a touch attack, so the penalty isn't that bad, and you can use two weapons the same round without TWF penalties as long as you don't claim extra attacks from doing so.