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Malkav
2011-05-17, 12:22 AM
Why do I never see any builds with DoD?
dgnslyr
2011-05-17, 12:24 AM
I believe it's 3.0 content, and works oddly with 3.5. It shows up here and there, but only for very specific, crit-fishing builds, usually involving Lightning Mace cheese with Aptitude Kukris for a cheesy build involving an obscene number of attacks.
Greenish
2011-05-17, 12:34 AM
Why do I never see any builds with DoD?Stuff that improves crit range (almost) never stacks in 3.5, and that's basically the Disciple's raison d'être.
Malkav
2011-05-17, 09:48 AM
So BoVD and BoED are both considered 3.0? Suck.

It does specify that it stacks with improved critical but not keen tho...oh well.
Amphetryon
2011-05-17, 09:54 AM
So BoVD and BoED are both considered 3.0? Suck.

It does specify that it stacks with improved critical but not keen tho...oh well.

BoVD is 3.0, while BoED is 3.5.
Thurbane
2011-05-17, 09:41 PM
Stuff that improves crit range (almost) never stacks in 3.5, and that's basically the Disciple's raison d'être.
Curmudgeon and I have a standing disagreement about DoD in 3.5.

I personally believe that the DoDs ability to increase crit ranges does, in fact, stack with the 3.5 Improved Critical feat due to the ability's explicit wording. Curmudgeon, from memory, believes that the ability only works with the 3.0 version of Improved Critical, which has been supplanted with the 3.5 version.

FWIW, in my games, I'd allow it to stack.
Popertop
2011-05-17, 10:43 PM
BoVD is 3.0, while BoED is 3.5.

Is there a 3.0 to 3.5 conversion chart somewhere?
MammonAzrael
2011-05-17, 10:46 PM
I don't believe so. If it was in 3.0 and updated to 3.5 somewhere, then you use the 3.5 version. If it wasn't updated, then you use the 3.0 version. For most people, that effectively means you don't use it at all. Even worse than Dragon Magazine, to some.
true_shinken
2011-05-17, 11:12 PM
I don't believe so. If it was in 3.0 and updated to 3.5 somewhere, then you use the 3.5 version. If it wasn't updated, then you use the 3.0 version. For most people, that effectively means you don't use it at all. Even worse than Dragon Magazine, to some.

There are many updates to 3.5 in booklets around, actually. Book of Vile Darkness didn't get one of them, though.
Ryu_Bonkosi
2011-05-17, 11:58 PM
Pretty much everything that had already been said. Usually if a build involves DoD it is going to be really cheesy. Granted it is a good class if you aren't planning on killing everything with never-ending dice rolls.
Thurbane
2011-05-18, 12:33 AM
I'm planning to use a Disciple of Dispater in my next campaign as a MBEG. The campaign is fairly focused around battling cults of various devils, among other things. He won't be using Lightning Mace shenanigans, though, just a falchion with a high crit range.
thorian
2011-05-18, 10:52 AM
There are many updates to 3.5 in booklets around, actually. Book of Vile Darkness didn't get one of them, though.

The "Leaflets of Triel" is a pretty decent 3.5 update for the BoVD.
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/File:Leaflets_of_Triel.pdf
Unfortunately, the only update for DoD is the changing of the prerequisite skills to 3.5 ones.
King Atticus
2011-05-18, 11:32 AM
From what I've seen in some other posts not a whole lot of DM's would allow it anyway. They seem to consider the BoVD PrC's (DoD in particular) NPC classes only, being too easy to abuse. So if you're the DM have a blast with them, they've always looked pretty fun to me, but if you're a player good luck getting them approved.