Optimising the Epic Composer of Epics.

[Steamsaint]

I'm looking to optimise a bard for epic level play, starting at 1xp below 21st level. My main problem is, I'm in a party with what seems to be a wizard (maybe), a cleric, a hexblade and a rogue/shadowdancer so far and I'd like to be able to compete *somewhat* with the two tier one casters while still wading into melee.

Character concept so far is to be an old should-be-retired gnome (with appropriate age penalties and bonuses) bard whose two main performances are playing his violin and rambling on, generally about the good old days.

Now the obvious answer is to go sublime chord, and that's pretty much what I've done; however I'm not very happy with spending the last four levels for the capstone of song of cosmic fire which seems to be quite lackluster to me, for an ability you can't get earlier than level 20. I'd head into another PRC which improves the caster level while getting other abilities but my DM has decided that if you start a PRC, you must finish it (although heading into another base class is possible). Is there any other way of getting epic level spellcasting, keeping the ability to melee (using snowflake wardance and dragonfire inspiration for this to offset the age penalties)?

So far I'm thinking Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10 is probably the only way to go.

That's my main question, but if there's anything not mentioned in this bard handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0) or if there's another guide which is more comprehensive, I'd love to know.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Honestly, more bard levels aren't bad and depending on how far into epic you go, you'll want to take epic prestige class levels ASAP for sweet, sweet bonus epic level feats, and, in this case, more spellcasting.

That being said, see if you can't wiggle with your DM on allowing Virtuoso between those bard and sublime chord levels, telling him you do plan on finishing it later.

EDIT: Ask about epic spellcasting. Just.. epic spellcasting is a nightmare as written.

[Steamsaint]

Oh, and I also want to ask if there's anywhere that I can find a somewhat comprehensive spell list for both bard and wizard/sorcerer, which also includes where each spell can be found.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I don't have the link on hand, but most every non-dragon magazine or campaign setting spell should be found on the WotC list found somewhere within the depths of their website.

Easier answer is core+completes+Spell Compendium.:smalltongue:

[Steamsaint]

I found this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19538942/Ultimate_Spell_List), actually.

This is (I can't remember the rules on swearing on this forum so I won't) amazing.

[Optimator]

http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/FindSpell.php

For your spell needs.

[Steamsaint]

Ok, those two together should make it much easier to make sure I'm selecting the right spells.

Anyone have a suggestion for the first question though?

[Optimator]

Is there any other way of getting epic level spellcasting, keeping the ability to melee (using snowflake wardance and dragonfire inspiration for this to offset the age penalties)?

Well, let's look at the ways you could get epic spellcasting and keep the character the same, fluff-wise. There's Wizard into Prestige Bard but that won't get you epic spellcasting at 21st. There's Wizard into Virtuoso. Then there's Sublime Chord again. I don't think there's anything else. With the PrC rules in play you don't have a lot of options.

I have a lot of experience with Bards and I'd say the Bard Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8284.0) is quite comprehensive.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

If you're only middle aged or maybe even old, you should be able to do fine depending on how you're generating stats. If it's via point buy, you'd probably want to bump CHA like mad, leaving stuffs left over for at least adequate strength, dex, and con - the three hurt by aging - and maybe some for INT, depending on how old the gnome is.

That said, just because you are in a group with two tier 1 characters doesn't mean they'll be approaching the high end of that power. If you know they're going for something like Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 and some form of DMM: Yes cleric, then certainly bring your A-game, blow some cash on a Belt of Magnificence +6 (basically +6 for all stats at 200k: you don't really need the wisdom, but it does help with will saves and save on slots while only being 56k GP more expensive than each of the six you arguably want separately).

For spell choices, depending on how the two tier 1 casters go, either focus more on buffs (in the case that they're either being super selfish with their spells or going more traditional blaster wizard/healbot cleric) or go nuts on all the glorious gish spells out there with your Sublime (and bard!) spells known! The more selfish the two tier 1 casters are, the better off you are going with a gish-chord. Maybe try to work in a rod or something of Divine Power for great justice.

EDIT: I've a great love for gishes, but aside from the obvious choices of Wraithstrike, Heroics, and Polymorph, my advice is larger parroted from those handbooks.

[Steamsaint]

At the moment I'm

STR: 8
DEX: 12
CON: 12
INT: 16
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

after racial adjustments and age adjustments (He's old, so -2/+2), but not level bonuses or inherent modifiers or items or anything.

I'm going to be relying on Snowflake Wardance and Inspire Confidence for attack roll boosting as well as the various gish spells.

Feats that are on my list to put in somewhere:

Nymph's Kiss (BoED)
Words of Creation (BoED)
Dragonfire Inspiration (DM)
Snowflake Wardance (Frost)
Obtain Familiar (maybe Improved Familiar?) (CA)
Melodic Casting (CM)
Leadership (PHB)
Lingering Song (CadV)
Martial Study (Devoted Spirit) - for Intimidate on my skill list, and a little utility in combat

We're allowed two flaws as long as the flaws affect us negatively somehow, so the two feats I'll probably drop if I can't find acceptable ones are Leadership and Martial Study.

[Talya]

after racial adjustments and age adjustments (He's old, so -2/+2), but not level bonuses or inherent modifiers or items or anything.



Old age is actually -3/+2. (The effects at each step are cumulative. Venerable is -6/+3).

[Steamsaint]

Erk, good catch :smalleek:

Let me see what I can do, maybe bump up Charisma some.

EDIT: Any suggestions? It's 32 point buy.

[Optimator]

Metamagic Song from Races of Stone and Quicken Spell would help immensely to quicken your high-powered wizard combat buffs. Extend Spell is also great when used with Metamagic song.

Not much (if anything at all) can be done, build-wise. At this point it's going to come down to spell selection for defining your character.

Greater Mirror Image, Heroics, Bite of the Werebear, Whirling Blade, Draconic Polymorph, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Snowsong, Empyreal Ecstasy, War Cry, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Nixie's Grace. These are some of the spells off the top of my head that are good for a melee Bard.