Building a Psychic Warrior with some Peculiar Constraints

[Essence_of_War]

I need to build a character subject to a number of constraints. I'm not married to the particular build, and in fact would appreciate suggestions if you have a better way to do it.

The constraints are as follows:
1) Has to be playable and useful in an otherwise exclusively evil party. I'm not in love with evil parties, but the group wants to try it really badly and the DM thinks it would be fun to give it a shot.
2) Has to have LA +4 through any somewhat responsibly applied combination of race and templates. Combinations that include racial hit die will be approved case-by-case and likely with the RHD converted to LA and racial feats/skills eliminated.
3) This LA is given out "for free". It doesn't affect our ECL. I do not like this at all, but the DM's orders are the DM's orders.
4) A corollary to 1), but more of a suggestion. I'd like it to reasonably effective in combat, but to have a secret weapon I could turn on in the case of an attempted in-party backstabbing that I could use to squelch it quickly.

Stat generation method is currently unclear, but will likely be either 36 pt buy, or "4d6 drop lowest 12 times, pick the best 6 and arrange to taste". The characters will start at ECL 2 not counting the LA+4 given out for free.

Given the constraints and the fact that other party members seemed interested in playing spellcasters, and a swift hunter, I thought a Crusader/Psychic Warrior would be a good choice.

1. Race

I saw 3 likely choices:
1. Half-Ogre + Draconic Template + Mineral Warrior Template
2. Human + Half-Dragon Template + Mineral Warrior Template
3. Half-Giant + Half-Dragon Template
But I'm open to suggestions that won't get a DMG thrown at me.

1 and 3 seemed the most useful.

Q: Is there anyway to get both powerful build and large size without doing anything incredibly cheesy? (I'm aware that free +4 LA is basically a heaping helping of gruyere)


2. Class

I like Psychic Warrior with a Crusader Dip.
Psychic Warrior 1-4/Crusader 2/Psychic Warrior 4-18

But perhaps Sanctified Mind might be useful also?


3. Feats/Abilities:

To meet the "Effective in Combat" requirement, I was planning building a spiked chain tripper to do some battlefield control, combining with the expansion power for saucy size and reach advantages.

To meet the "secret weapon" requirement, I was planning on taking the necessary feats for a Leap Attack Shock Trooper also but keeping that mostly hidden. I'm not really interested in one-shotting any enemy that's chargable, rather, I am interested in keeping an ace in the hole if someone tries to cross me. Since I don't plan on letting them see my character sheet, and only a few of them are reasonable optimizers, they shouldn't know that I'm capable of one-shotting them if they cross me.

We have a slightly more generous feat progression (every odd level rather than every 3rd) which by my count gives me 18 feats by 20th level.
1. Necessary - Trip line (Exotic, Combat Exp, Imp Trip, Knockdown) = 4
2. Secret Weapon - Charge Line (PowerAtt, Imp Bull Rush, LeapAtt, Shock Trooper) = 4
3. Secondary - Mage-Slayer Line (Mage-Slayer, Blind Fight, PMC) = 3
3. Tertiary - Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative = 2
= 13 feat slots

Giving me 5 more to play with over the course of my career. I think:
1. Psicrystal Affinity
2. Psicrystal Containment
3. Psionic Meditation
4. Psionic Strike
5. Deep Impact
might round me out nicely?

I'd really like advice on "feat ordering". I think my top priority is getting tripping online, which I think I can do by level 3 (must meet the knock-down BAB requirements). Maybe something like this:

1 - Exotic Weapon Prof.
1(psywar) - Combat Expertise
2(psywar) - Improved Trip
3 - Knockdown
5 - Combat Reflexes
7 - Power Attack
7(psywar) - Improved Bull Rush
9 - Shock Trooper
10(psywar) - Leap Attack
11 - Mage-Slayer
13 - Blind-Fight
13(psywar) - Pierce Magical Concealment
15 - PsiCrys Affinity
16(psywar) - PsiCrys Containment
17 -Psionic Strike
19 - Deep Impact
19(psywar) - Improved Initiative


Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks!

Edit: I forgot to mention this at the outset, but generally speaking, the DM is fine with almost any WotC books but we don't have access to Dungeon or Dragon magazine.

[Greenish]

Goliath half-minotaur is large with powerful build, for 2 LA. Cheesy as it gets, though.

[Diarmuid]

He still needs 2 more LA though, /heh

[BenInHB]

Feral Goliath Half-Minotaur Mineral Warrior. That is a +4 LA

I would go Wolf Totem Barb/Ardent instead of Psychic Warrior, you get more PP and better Powers and can pick up free Improved trip from wolf barb without needing the pre reqs.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) is +4 LA and grants a size increase (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases) if you base it off of a huge or bigger outsider. Based on a Goristro (FC1) it would grant +8 Str, +8 Con, +5 natural armor, your choice of either DR/Cold Iron or DR/Good, 2 slam attacks with the possibility of being able to count each as though wielded two-handed as per the model fiend, and some of the spell-like abilities could be exchanged for Fear, Levitate, Spider Climb, and See Invisibility.

You would have to find a LA +0 race with Powerful Build, or maybe use Human and take the feat Jotunbrud from Races of Faerun, which does the same thing as Powerful Build but without the weapon size increase.

If you want a bigger than normal weapon, one option would be to take the Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) to gain the Use Oversize Weapon ability "As the titan special ability." Just for reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/titan.htm), "Oversized Weapon (Ex) A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty." You could be a tiny-size character and wield a gargantuan two-handed warhammer without penalty using this! In this case, take EWP: Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV), which gargantuan sized would deal 6d6 base damage, still with the 19-20/x4 crit and the +2 to sunder attempts. Bloodline levels would still advance your manifester level, and count toward your level for bonus powerpoints for a high ability score.

If you want to combine Crusader with Psychic Warrior powers, particularly Sanctified Mind, consider going Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ War Mind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5. Those last five levels would still increase your manifester level and bonus powerpoints for a high ability score even though you wouldn't get any more powers known, higher level powers, or base powerpoints for them. With Practiced Manifester that gets a ML of 19, with +20 BAB, and if you gain Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole it doesn't cost you any feats other than Practiced Manifester.

[Essence_of_War]

Feral is in Savage Species right?

I'm going to keep Ardent in mind as an additional option, but I think I might have to modify the role I have in mind to account for having far fewer feats.

Additional Question: Are there any easy ways to dispense with having to sleep subject to the other existing constraints?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Elves meditate instead of sleeping. Non-native Outsiders don't have to sleep or eat, but you would be extraplanar so a Banishment or Dismissal effect (or Holy Word, Dictum, etc.) would send you to your native plane and you would be stuck there unless you could Plane Shift back to the material plane.

Shadow Creature (LA +2, LoM) plus Feral (+1 LA, SS) plus the Zenythri planetouched race (+1 LA, MM2) would be an Extraplanar Outsider, with the ability to Plane Shift between the material plane and his native plane of shadow. Plus you would have total concealment in anything less than full daylight, which means you could not be targeted by effects that don't affect an area or require an attack roll, and any attack against you would have a 50% miss chance. Hire an NPC spellcaster (or get Leadership for a Cleric cohort, or dip Blackguard) to cast Deeper Darkness on the gem of a small pendant you wear around your neck. Hold the gem in your mouth, and the darkness effect is blocked. If you need to conjure up your concealment, you can 'drop' it as a free action by spitting it out, and it returns to its place hanging around your neck and plunges the room into darkness.

[Hirax]

I'll go outside the box and suggest a phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm)half-ogre (Races of Destiny version). Net stat bonuses will be +6str, -2 dex, +2 con, +2 wis, +2cha, and you'll be large naturally. Plus, you'll get some spiffy psionic abilities.

edit: you could also grab the waker of the beast prc (Dragon 296) if you want to become huge non-magically. It's a 5 level prc, you increase in size as the capstone. At 2nd and 4th level you gain +2 str, and lose -2 int. At 5th level the size increase affects your stats per the MM adjustment rules, so +8str, -2 dex, +4 con, and +3 NA, but you also get another -2 int. This totals to +12 str, +4 con, -2 dex, -6 int, and +3 LA. But couple this with expansion and you become colossal.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Instead of Crusader, go Warblade. Why? Sudden Leap. Jump up 10', then charge down. Lets you pull off a charge in much more cramped quarters.

However, if you want a nasty surprise? Here's an idea.

Ranger/PsiWar/Slayer.

As for your 'secret weapon', here's an idea for you...

Empathic Transfer, Hostile + Empathic Feedback. Hit me, you take damage. Then, I hit you, heal all the damage you just did, and give it back to you, postage due.

Even worse, if you're dealing with the *whole* party... you can drop 6pp into it, and hit every opponent within 20'. So say they just hit you for 100 damage. Now everyone else in the party eats 100 damage, and you heal up to full.

If you're going to be focusing on Expansion/Lion's Pounce stuff, that's the last thing they're gonna expect. Gonna be a rude surprise when they find out you can heal yourself better than anyone else, and take people down at the same time.

Make sure to Vigor up before hand, of course.

[Essence_of_War]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! It'll be really helpful in fleshing this all out.

One more question, the DM has added yet another weird constraint. He'd like us all to play races that have 1 or 2 racial hit die (???).

I'm aware of the master list of templates, the master list of player races LA+0/+1/ and +2. Is there any similar document/list for player races that have racial hit die?

[subject42]

So you need +4 level adjustment and 1 - 2 racial hit die?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! It'll be really helpful in fleshing this all out.

One more question, the DM has added yet another weird constraint. He'd like us all to play races that have 1 or 2 racial hit die (???).

I'm aware of the master list of templates, the master list of player races LA+0/+1/ and +2. Is there any similar document/list for player races that have racial hit die?

Technically, a human has one racial hit die. But anything with one racial hit die trades it in for their class. Clarify with your GM on this point. But i hear Thri-Kreen are pretty good for this.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Anthromorphic African Elephant, Savage Species. Large size, 3 HD, +2 LA, Str +12, Dex +2, Con +6, Wis +6, +7 natural armor. Throw on Feral and Mineral Warrior and you're good.

[Cerlis]

I think werewolves have 2 HD and 2 LA, but you probably dont want to mess with your racial size increases.

[Cog]

If you're breaking out the anthropomorphics, baleen whale is worth a look too. Most of the stats are a smidge under elephant's, but you get off LA-free and you can easily make up those stat differences with different templates.

[Essence_of_War]

So you need +4 level adjustment and 1 - 2 racial hit die?

Unfortunately, yes.

However, do to some creative...renormalization...everyone's first 4 points of LA are going to be poofed into the ether, and their racial hit die will stick around.

I already agree with you that this appears to make very little sense.


Technically, a human has one racial hit die. But anything with one racial hit die trades it in for their class. Clarify with your GM on this point. But i hear Thri-Kreen are pretty good for this.

Clarification indicates that the race choices must have precisely 2 RHD.

Presently investigating the anthropomorphic options. Thanks Biff/Cog! Maybe when I'm done with this nonsense I'll write up a little reference with races sorted by racial hit dice/total ECL added.

[classy one]

I would say you need metamorphosis, schism and linked power. Maybe metamorphic transfer as well. Linked power is IMO an absolute must for buffing psywars. Metamorphosis is the reason psywars are superior to ToB classes, you can get this via mantled variant or EK. Both cost a feat but mantled in natural world let's you get it 3 levels earlier. If you have a psicrystal, it will also gain metamorphosis and can turn into a construct.

Not sure why you would need shock trooper and deep impact for a super charger. In fact metamorphosis is a much better contingency since it let's you make use of every monster ever published.

If you want to make the most Metamorph I'd recommend a race like half-fiend or teifling, basically anything which can let you turn into an outsider. Alternatively, you could just use planer apoptosis or skin of the fiend or celestial and gain a half-fiend/celestial template.

Your psywar build seems a bit complex to be honest. If you wanted to do control then psychic whip (secrets of Sarlona) let's you trip with reach and gives you improved trip. It even forces those hit to take a will save or be stunned for one turn.

Another trick is to have make a tattoo of psych reformation (using the feat tattoo mastery) is the ultimate contingency.

[Mayhem]

What level are you starting off at? Because if you're quite high to begin with, the level adjustment really isn't worth a whole lot which might be the DM's reasoning.

[Greenish]

What level are you starting off at?ECL 2, not counting those free LA, as per OP.

Which means, with precisely 2 RHD they must have, that they start without any class levels, it seems.

Is there any handy 1 HD medium animal/vermin/magical beast that'd work as a base for Tauric?

[Silva Stormrage]

Another good template is lolth touched. + 6 str + 6 con for lvl adjustment + 1. It also gives immunity to fear.

[Greenish]

Hur dur dur. Tauric phrenic lesser aasimar/half-dragon feral mineral warrior winged Lolth-touched baboon. 2 Monstrous Humanoid hitdice, +4 LA, insane good stats, all movement modes with decent speeds, DR 8/Adamantine, bunch of psi-like abilities, good natural armour, natural weapons, fully legal* but cheesy as hell.

*Not completely sure Lolth-touched can be applied on animals, but the rest should work.

[Edit]: Wait, no swim speed. Oh well.

[Mayhem]

Oh, it was hidden. So 2HD, 4LA, and 2 class levels( or something to that net effect)?

[Essence_of_War]

Gotta have 2RHD and +4LA. The LA is coming for free, the RHD should get us the ECL 2.

Sorry if that wasn't clear in the update post. The situation is a bit peculiar.

Also, I think I'm getting a DMG thrown at me if I show up abusing the Tauric template like that Greenish :smallsmile:

[Greenish]

Half-minotaur mineral warrior feral viletooth lizardfolk?

[Edit]: Or drop two templates and add Winged to power it down.
[Edit]: Phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) is pretty nifty, too.

[Essence_of_War]

That's actually what I was leaning toward.

I don't think I know "viletooth" though. What is the source for that one?

Edit: and by "that" I meant half-minotaur, mineral warrior lizardfolk + something else?

Edit 2: I really like phrenic also. Maybe drop the half-minotaur for phrenic +mineral warrior?

[Greenish]

I don't think I know "viletooth" though. What is the source for that one?Viletooth Lizardfolk is the dragonblooded lizardfolk subrace from Dragon Magic.


Edit: and by "that" I meant half-minotaur, mineral warrior lizardfolk + something else?

Edit 2: I really like phrenic also. Maybe drop the half-minotaur for phrenic +mineral warrior?I'd rather drop mineral warrior than half-minotaur (size is an advantage, and I think there's also type change for the much better Monstrous Humanoid RHD). I might skip Phrenic, though it is cool, and stack the cheaper templates. Feral goes nicely with psywarr, since it increases wis, in addition str and con, as well as netting you Fast Healing 2 and Imp. Grab (which means that with base size Large + psywarr powers, you'll be slamming big T to the canvas in no time). Darkvision, scent, burrow speed, big DR, claws, bite, gore, tail with a feat, yeah, you'll be a beast no question.

[Essence_of_War]

Ooo I didn't think about the type change for the hit die, I was just salivating over getting the DR from mineral warrior twice from the Crusader dip.

I think you're right, I'll think about it a little and probably go between
1) Phrenic Half-Minotaur Lizardfolk
or
2) Feral Mineral-Warrior Half-Minotaur Lizardfolk

They both seem really saucy.

[Greenish]

They both seem really saucy.They are, run them by your DM before getting too attached to the idea.

Also, it sounds as if she has something very specific (hobgoblin werewolves or the like) in mind, so it wouldn't hurt to ask about that.

[Edit]: Wait, half-minotaur doesn't change type. Feral does, though.

[Essence_of_War]

They are, run them by your DM before getting too attached to the idea.

Also, it sounds as if she has something very specific (hobgoblin werewolves or the like) in mind, so it wouldn't hurt to ask about that.



Fair points. I'm going to run them both by my DM to see if this fits the shell of what they were thinking about. May also help to check what the other players are doing as well :smallsmile:

[Godskook]

Ooo I didn't think about the type change for the hit die, I was just salivating over getting the DR from mineral warrior twice from the Crusader dip.

Sorry, but you can't double dip the damage protection. Damage taken from the damage pool is untyped, and thus bypasses both DR and ER.

[Tvtyrant]

I would go Incarnate Construct Tauric Leopard/Halfling whatever else you want. The Incarnate Construct gets rid of the Tauric Leopards' LA, so you get free pounce for life, and then adding any other LA sources just makes it stronger. Maybe Halfdragon for the strength bonus so you can hit things extra hard.

[Greenish]

You can't incarnate construct an animal. Further, a leopard has three hitdice, one too many. Also, the animal halves' LA doesn't count, so even if you could apply incarnate construct, it wouldn't reduce your LA from Tauric.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think he forgot a step: Start with a Tauric Halfling/something-with-pounce; Effigy Creature of that; Incarnate Construct. The difficulty here is finding a desirable medium quadruped with Pounce. Note that Tauric adds 1 HD for the Humanoid portion at the very minimum, so you need a 1 HD medium quadruped for a 2 HD tauric creature. I'm pretty sure all the 1 HD animals are small size, and tauric specifically requires a medium or large size quadruped, so this doesn't look like a suitable option.

Edit: If you want to have a stealthy athletic character, go Whisper Gnome Lycanthrope using a Warbeast (MM2) Serval (Sandstorm) for the animal portion. That gets some amazing racial skill bonuses, awesome ability score bonuses while remaining small size, extremely fast... and you can even dip a few levels of Warshaper for even more bonuses.

[Greenish]

I'm pretty sure all the 1 HD animals are small size, and tauric specifically requires a medium or large size quadruped, so this doesn't look like a suitable option.Even at core, there's baboon, which I mentioned earlier.

[Edit]: Whisper Gnome were-serval sounds beautiful, and would allow for 1 LA more (or two if afflicted), leaving nice place for the Dark template. But can you add templates to the base animal of a lycanthrope?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Even at core, there's baboon, which I mentioned earlier.

[Edit]: Whisper Gnome were-serval sounds beautiful, and would allow for 1 LA more (or two if afflicted), leaving nice place for the Dark template. But can you add templates to the base animal of a lycanthrope?

Baboon doesn't have Pounce, or any desirable special attacks for that matter, so it's not really even worth taking IMO.

Warbeast costs an additional HD, which is the point of using it in the first place in this case. Other than +1 HD, the benefit is Str +3, Con +3 to the base animal, which for the lycanthrope would grant an extra Str +2, Con +4 in hybrid or animal form, and +4 HP in all forms. Just advancing a Serval to 2 HD before making it a Lycanthrope would still work for this character. Whisper Gnome Were-Serval is actually amazing in any game that can afford the LA, especially for something like Swordsage, splashing a few Warshaper levels of course.

[Tvtyrant]

I think he forgot a step: Start with a Tauric Halfling/something-with-pounce; Effigy Creature of that; Incarnate Construct. The difficulty here is finding a desirable medium quadruped with Pounce. Note that Tauric adds 1 HD for the Humanoid portion at the very minimum, so you need a 1 HD medium quadruped for a 2 HD tauric creature. I'm pretty sure all the 1 HD animals are small size, and tauric specifically requires a medium or large size quadruped, so this doesn't look like a suitable option.

Edit: If you want to have a stealthy athletic character, go Whisper Gnome Lycanthrope using a Warbeast (MM2) Serval (Sandstorm) for the animal portion. That gets some amazing racial skill bonuses, awesome ability score bonuses while remaining small size, extremely fast... and you can even dip a few levels of Warshaper for even more bonuses.

All of them, except Centipedes. So you could make an effigy halfling/centipede incarnate construct, but all you would get would be a 40ft. move speed and a 40ft. Climb speed and a high racial dex. Hardly worth it.

[Greenish]

Baboon doesn't have Pounce, or any desirable special attacks for that matter, so it's not really even worth taking IMO.Eh, climb speed, some stat mods. I used it to abuse stacking templates on the animal side. Besides, it's a 1 HD medium animal.

Warbeast costs an additional HD, which is the point of using it in the first place in this case.I see, but I'm still curious on whether the rules say anything about giving the base animal templates before "combining" the lycanthrope.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

""Lycanthrope" is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice."

Therefore, if the animal is still an animal after a template is applied then it's RAW-able. If that template has a HD cost, then no foul, since 'multiclassing into animal' is not much different from 'multiclassing into a template' that actually costs levels to take. Adding a 'free' template to the animal is cheese, but adding a template that grants some minor bonuses for the cost of an extra 'level' of animal should be acceptable in most games.

[Greenish]

Makes sense. :smallcool:

[BobSutan]

Has to have LA +4 through any somewhat responsibly applied combination of race and templates. Combinations that include racial hit die will be approved case-by-case and likely with the RHD converted to LA and racial feats/skills eliminated.

In that case look at Goliath from Races of Stone. I'd go with barbarian, use the racial substitution levels, and work towards Frenzied Berserker. The dude will be Juggernaut with a sword/axe.

Another alternative is Petal or some other iteration of a Pixie and make it into a Sorcerer/Warlock ray specialist. Eldritch Theurge perhaps?

If you're dead set on being PW, take a look at my grappling monk/PW build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184484).

[Hirax]

In the outside chance you still need more suggestions you could toy around with the lycanthrope template. A werehound with the riding dog as your base animal gets you alertness and track feats for free, +4 to str, dex, and con in hybrid form, and has 2 RHD. Consider combining it with half minotaur+lesser aasimar or half minotaur+lesser tiefling. Or even half-minotaur+human or half-minotaur+strongheart halfling if you want a bonus feat more than stats. The goliath is always a solid option, though, if you don't to raise eyebrows.

Though since you specifically mentioned psychic warrior, remember you'll want +wisdom for bonus PP. A werehound half-minotaur lesser aasimar in hybrid form would net you +8str, +4 dex, +6 con, -2 int, +6 wis, and +2 cha. The wisdom will help your will saves too, and remember you get iron will for free as a lycanthrope. If your DM decides to let you add the size change stats from half-minotaur to the build, you get an additional +8 str, +4 con, and -2 dex, of course.

[Essence_of_War]

Update:

Thanks for the input everyone.

I've figured what the other party members are.
1) A lich cleric (I think the DM is going to just start him with 2 generic undead RHD)
2) A swift hunter, possibly half-fiend, don't know where his RHD are coming from)
3) A thri-kreen psychic rogue (likely non-psionic with phrenic template)
4) A direct damage sorcerer (likely half-dragon lizardfolk?)
5) A pixie wizard (enchanter specialized) (possibly with 2 fey hd?)

It's pretty all over the place. After my recent research on races with RHD, I think I'm going to be a:
Half-Minotaur (Feral or Draconic, depending on how the DM comes down on the feral template) Flind.

With the knowledge of the other party members in mind, does this + the feat build I suggested in the OP sound reasonable?

Edit:
I'd also been looking at the Lumi, it boosts my manifesting stat as well as str and con. Does anyone know of good templates that can be applied to outsiders though? I know for sure that Half-Minotaur and Feral are no-dice.