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Ignatius
2011-05-17, 04:29 PM
Hello again.

I have never played or even read about an undead campaign - what other sorts of monsters are allies to the undead - wittingly, or forced?

I am getting organised for a paragon tier campaign to follow on from my heroic and will have a strong undead theme, but I dont want to only use undead monsters but am unsure what other monsters to include.

Are there any particular origins or keywords that work well with undead?

mobdrazhar
2011-05-17, 06:19 PM
You can always add in servents of The Raven Queen or Orcus.

Also remember that you can always put in Wizards to represent Necromancers that control the "mindless" undead hordes

artstsym
2011-05-17, 06:32 PM
Creatures with the shadow type in general pair up pretty well with undead and are usually thematically fitting. Vermin tend to accompany the semi-living, and I personally am a fan of intelligent aberrations (illithids, etc.) making shields out of the usually tougher not-not-with-us-anymore.

evirus
2011-05-17, 08:14 PM
Constructs, free willed or not.

Basically anything that can see the value of power and no morals to care where it comes from or have lived so long they have lost touch (devils, demons, far realmians, inevitables, certain immortals, etc.).

Ignatius
2011-05-17, 09:10 PM
Hmm.. Shadow Type? I will have to have a look into those creatures and see what fits.


making shields out of the usually tougher not-not-with-us-anymore

I am not sure I follow you here 100%?

mobdrazhar
2011-05-17, 10:54 PM
i think he means using the undead as "human" shields

Noneoyabizzness
2011-05-18, 09:04 AM
think almost the same allies as non-undead with the same end goal except xenophobic undead hunters.if they are a crime lord, they will be criminals from many spectrums. if they are heroes similar good aligned beings. if they are ressurecting a dark god, cultists. if they are nobility, a friggin army. if they have their hands in many different pots, they can play 4 sides against a middle (crime vs law vs church vs cult).

don't ever limit to "____=___ type of ally only." if an elf who wants to reclaim the forest from human incursion bankrolls an orcish horde, it offers the unexpected twist and eventually a horrid war

artstsym
2011-05-18, 09:31 AM
i think he means using the undead as "human" shields That is exactly what I mean. I just hate using the word undead over and over in any post that has to do with them. :smalltongue:

Also, interestingly enough, aquatic dudes make good allies for undead, if only for the sake of the not-water-breathing PCs. The great part about undead is their lack of need for most basic necessities, like air. Use that to your advantage when building stuff for them.

Ignatius
2011-05-18, 03:10 PM
True - I never thought about aquatic monsters and the undeads lack of need for air! That could play out to be some very interesting encounters.

evirus
2011-05-18, 03:16 PM
True - I never thought about aquatic monsters and the undeads lack of need for air! That could play out to be some very interesting encounters.

Rotting, wet flesh... your players will love you.

mobdrazhar
2011-05-18, 07:21 PM
also Oozes and the such work

DragonBaneDM
2011-05-18, 07:39 PM
You can always add in servents of The Raven Queen or Orcus.


I wouldn't use servants of the Raven Queen. Being the goddess of death, she absolutely despises undead, especially intelligent ones. They break the natural circle.

The only way your party should be fighting devotees of the Raven Queen is if there's been some terrible misunderstanding, they've switched sides, or they're trespassing in the Shadowfell.

That said, this is a cool thread and I wanna contribute. Brainwashed cultists and demagogue necromancers are really cool additions to an undead encounter. Also, I've seen demons and undead work together well. Both totally lack morals, so they'd probably share that whole "wanton destruction" vibe.

RndmNumGen
2011-05-18, 08:01 PM
also Oozes and the such work


Wouldn't oozes try to eat the undead?

Mando Knight
2011-05-18, 08:10 PM
Being the goddess of death, she absolutely despises undead, especially intelligent ones.

Except when she doesn't. Her undead are the Revenants, beings sent back from the grave to finish a destiny they left undone. Some other deities and powerful beings might sponsor Revenants as well, but she's the one who raises most of them.

Popertop
2011-05-18, 08:24 PM
it offers the unexpected twist and eventually a horrid war

Everybody wins!


That said, this is a cool thread and I wanna contribute. Brainwashed cultists and demagogue necromancers are really cool additions to an undead encounter. Also, I've seen demons and undead work together well. Both totally lack morals, so they'd probably share that whole "wanton destruction" vibe.

Don't forget about Clerics. Bone Knights are awesome, and thematic!

Also, I think that rework of that desolater-druid PrC would be a great undead ally.

mobdrazhar
2011-05-18, 08:37 PM
Wouldn't oozes try to eat the undead?

why go for the rotting flesh when you can sense the fresh stuff?

Christopher K.
2011-05-19, 08:14 AM
Slap a Death Master template(Is that the name, or is it something else?) on a Red or Black Dragon, and you get a VERY dangerous necromancer.

RndmNumGen
2011-05-19, 06:38 PM
why go for the rotting flesh when you can sense the fresh stuff?

Because the rotting stuff is almost as good and is much easier to get? I mean sure, if you gave an ooze a choice between fresh meat and rotten meat, it might take the fresh stuff depending on how it acts instinctively(as it doesn't have intelligence, and may be unable to tell the difference), but if there is a choice between waiting around for fresh stuff and attacking the rotten stuff that is sitting right there, I think they would do the latter.

DragonBaneDM
2011-05-20, 12:59 AM
Oh yeah! You mentioned "unwilling" allies in your first post.

Children. Hordes of terrified, chained-together children that act as difficult terrain. Dragons inspire awe, elementals look cool, but undead are there to scare your players' pants off, might as well make it clear that the undead are there to get in their heads.

Noneoyabizzness
2011-05-20, 07:22 AM
Everybody wins!




exactly! why limit yourself for thematic reasons of willing or unwilling or knowing or enslaved everyone works toward a mutually assured destruction while he notes it all down and makes millions selling the history of the great war that caused the end of a civilization to the survivors.

dradio1
2011-06-18, 02:44 AM
As a devout follower of the Raven Queen, I state that her somewhat small forces would not ally with undead willingly. And Sorrowsworn, would likely not ally with undead, willingly or not. She ushers souls on, and protects them from becoming undead, I even remember reading somewhere that she despises undead and destroys them so the souls can go free.

Fayd
2011-06-18, 07:24 PM
Primal Swarm druids might also work as good allies... swarms of flies and other carrion insects would probably be really creepy.

Other thoughts: Corrupted Genasi... They're kinda like undead versions of the elements. I stress the kinda. A Voidsoul Necromancer who seeks to consume the world to fill the vacuum in himself, for example.

What are those creatures that are essentially living ambulatory mushrooms? Whatever they are, they fit the theme of rot rather well. Also, don't restrict yourself to one type of zombie or skeleton... throw in an elven zombie or a dragonborn zombie as well.

Here's an interesting undead tactic: if the necromancer knows where the fight is going to be ahead of time, have him bury an army of the undead just below the surface. Then, once a force would be surrounded, they would all burst out of the ground simultaneously. Or, if you just have things that look like normal skeletons, have them on the surface, apparently inanimate and have them simultaneously assemble for the same effect.

Ignatius
2011-06-19, 01:31 AM
I like the idea of a buried ambush... players would setup camp in an open field after a long day of journeying, settle down to sleep and BAM bring up the skeletons!

In the heroic campaign that I did I was buying random mini's and so the encounters that the players faced was extremely varied so all of this talk about monsters that work together is a great help in setting up a themed campaign for paragon tier.

Keep the advice coming!

Whybird
2011-06-19, 09:17 AM
I remember playing in a campaign once where the undead had an unexpected ally: humans. Not brainwashed evil cultists -- just people.

See, the BBEG necromancer wasn't the type to just sit at home and raise armies of the dead. He understood the importance of spin. So he had some of his more charismatic (and less rotting) lieutenants go round a number of human settlements who had lost people in a war. They convinced the populace that the gods of the underworld were cruel tyrants with no right to hold onto the souls of the dead, and that by rebelling and overthrowing them, the necromancer would allow them to regain contact with lost loved ones, to make death a thing of the past, to usher in a utopia. Yes, skeletons and zombies were frightening to march alongside, but they were unthinking soldiers who didn't feel pain: wasn't it much crueller that the King was fighting his wars using soldiers who had families and loved ones?

So not only were our heroes up against blasphemous necrotic horror (which the necromancer generally managed to keep out of sight of his mortal servants) but against rebellious peasants boosted up with necromantic powers, entirely convinced that they were fighting on the side of good.

Fayd
2011-06-19, 01:47 PM
Some more thoughts: with the buried ambush, wait for them to be physically laying down to sleep. Have one of the zombies be directly underneath a party member (roll randomly for which one, of course) and when the attack begins, have the zombie grab them from under the ground, and attempt to keep them gappled/pinned. Just for the extra layer of creepy.

I also think the aberrations would be cool, especially if you fluff them right. They are not truly alive, nor can they truly die. "That which is not dead can eternal lie..." (H.P. Lovecraft)

Another thought: Vestige pact warlocks. They call upon entities from outside of reality, weakening the barrier between that which is and that which is not. In time, that which is not may try to gain a kind of life and existence by forcing their way into corpses and controlling them. You could, I suppose, also do this with a demonic entity, but I find that vestiges are JUST a little creepier.