[3.5e]Barbarian help

[Dylaer]

I'm playing in an Ebberon campaign, and my party mostly consists of casters who know what they're doing. So I was wondering what I, as a barbarian, can do to even it out a tad. Here's my character at the moment.

Changeling Barb3

Feats & Flaws
Shaky
Extra Rage
Improved Toughness
Anarchic Rage

So that's all good, and the casters haven't bypassed me quite yet. I'm looking to go into warshaper (note: please no discussion on getting in through changeling - the DM has said yes already) at level 5, then jumping out after 4 levels, but what then?

I also have no idea what items would be handy under these circumstances either.

[Jude_H]

My first impulse is Swordsage. But that's my first impulse for a lot of things.

Do you have any high mental stats?

[*.*.*.*]

Primeval and/or bear warrior are always nice


Taking both would probably be better than warshaper due to stacking both form's stats on top of one another

[Dylaer]

My mental stats are average, no more. Much as I'd love to dip swordsage, I know my WIS isn't up to the cut. Bear warrior sounds good, but I won't be dropping out of warshaper because we have no dedicated way to get healing, so the fast healing will help me tank much better. The +4 con +4 str isn't bad either.

[RaginChangeling]

Changeling Warshaper is great, if you have Spirit Lion totem for pounce. If not, your first priority should be to get pounce by some means so you can do a bunch of natural attacks on a charge. Warblade could work here with the first level maneuver 'Sudden Leap' to let you move with a swift action jump check. Dipping into Psychic warrior can likewise get ways to attack on a charge.

[Dylaer]

Pounce I do have, which is nice. But, as said, my mental stats are average. As in, 10s. Honest rolls character, but one with crappy stats.

[RaginChangeling]

Pounce I do have, which is nice. But, as said, my mental stats are average. As in, 10s. Honest rolls character, but one with crappy stats.

Barbarian is still pretty great for your character then. I usually like to PrC out into Beast Heart Adept when I build a Barbarian/Warshaper Changeling but thats because I love pets.

Also, the fifth level of Warshaper is totally worthless for you and you shouldn't take it, some decent builds might be,

Barbarian 4/Warshaper 4/Bear Warrior 10/Warblade 2?

Barbarian 4/Warshaper 4/Warblade 12

Barbarian 4/Warshaper 4/Beast Heart Adept 10/Warblade 2

Barbarian 4/Warshaper 4/Fist of the Forest X-

Barbarian 4/Warshaper 4/Barbarian 12

Martial adepts are going to be great regardless, and Warblades don't really need Int at all to function. But honestly, keep up full base attack and try to get some way to teleport/fly at higher levels and you should be pretty good.

[Dr.Epic]

How to be an effective barbarian:

1. Get str and con as high as possible
2. Take power attack and cleave
3. ???
4. Profit

[Dylaer]

Yeah, I know to avoid warshaper 5, and with anarchic rage, jumping back into barbarian will have me raging at my level, rather than one 4 levels lower, which is nice. Thanks for the help!

[PinkysBrain]

I'd go Barb 4/Warshaper 2/Warblade 2/Warshaper 2/Warblade X

As for items ... a Skin of Morpheus would be nice, even appropriate.

[Malkav]

bear warrior

then frozen/flaming berserker(or whatever it is called) and have your casters dump AoE energy that heals you all over you while rage-tanking.

And as above stated war-shaper after bear warrior and berserker.

[Greenish]

My mental stats are average, no more. Much as I'd love to dip swordsage, I know my WIS isn't up to the cut.Swordsage doesn't have a minimum Wis needed to enter. :smallamused:

Also, there is absolutely no doubt on whether changeling can qualify for warshaper entry.

[King Atticus]

In a party heavily loaded with casters I'd try to fit in the Blazing Berserker feat from sandstorm. That way your blasters can rain fireballs down on you from on high while your cutting people up and everybody is happy. Also prevents you from becoming collateral damage on any "accidentally misfired fire spells" :smallwink:

[PinkysBrain]

And as above stated war-shaper after bear warrior and berserker.
I like Bear Warrior and all ... but getting good damage in bear form is not trivial. There are a couple of solutions, but they are mostly cheesy or awkward. You can use a mouthpick weapon (LoM), you can be a kungfu bear (unarmed strike bear with natural weapons as secondary attacks) or you can use it with a secondary polymorph effect (keep the bonuses, but lose the shape).

Frenzied Berserker is a pain with feat requirements, not a direction you want to decide on later in the game ... if he wanted FB he should have gone with barbarian 2/fighter 2.

[Jude_H]

My mental stats are average, no more. Much as I'd love to dip swordsage, I know my WIS isn't up to the cut.
The point isn't the Wisdom boosts as much as it is Tiger Claw's attack options, Shadow Hand's teleports and the occasional Diamond Mind defense. If you're trying to keep up with spellcasters, those are more important than making your numbers bigger.

[Dylaer]

Oops, my mistake. I keep thinking that manuevers are keyed off the mental stat, despite the fact that I've played a warblade XP. Diamond mind would be nice for Moment of Perfect Mind, because my will save is pretty bad.

What's the Skin of Morpheus, by the way? I've not heard of that.

[dgnslyr]

Bear Warrior is a personal favorite of mine, as is Fist of the Forest, which gives you CON to AC and a huge unarmed damage increase. The two work well together, because not only do you get more AC when bear-shaped, but you also can be the kung-fu bear, which helps with damage quite a bit.

As a Barbarian, it's nice to switch the generally useless Trap-Sense for the far-superior Improved Trip, free of pre-reqs.

Frost Rager, as mentioned before, is a hilariously awesome PrC, and synergizes well with the whole kung-fu bear thing. All of these PrCs work well with Warshaper. Have fun with this character, because Barbarians have some of the most fun PrCs.

[Darth Stabber]

Totemist is a fun dip for many melee classes (just two levels gets you a wide variety of tools to swap out each day). Also their save dcs are con based, so bad mental stats won't affect it at all. And their skill list is almost identical to the barbarian's. There is a dual progression prc for barb/tots that is pretty good, but it is more for totemists dipping barb, than the other way around.

Bear warrior is favorite of many, but is heavily reliant on either a mouthpick weapon or improved unarmed strike. Still a ton of fun and plays nicely with warshaper.

Frost rager has a couple of awesome abilities, and is mostly easy to qualify for (except for the nearly freezing to death part). Even just the frozen bezerker feat (one of fr's prereqs) is a ton of fun giving you immunity to cold damage while raging. Add blazing berzerker and you are immune to the top 2 damge types (fire and cold) while raging, and any caster who wants to do blastomancy will love you for it (I've stood in the center of fireballs before, it should give you a bonus to intimidate).

Combine the previous 2 suggestions and you can become so angry you turn into the legendary flaming ice bear.

Fist of the forest is a short (3lvl) prc that meshes nicely with bear warrior and frost rager, and makes you wonder why people think unarmed combat is for the lawful. Infact some of the best barbarian builds are some combination of barbarian/fist of the forest/bear warrior/frost rager/warshaper. It's a solid damage dealer, and while it won't neccessarily out power a caster, you will out style them.

If I were doing it I would try to sneak a level of warblade in their somewhere, at a point where you can grab iron heart surge (at lvl 9 or later), this will require you to grab another iron heart manuever (there are several good ones), and the will save replacing one, though I could not tell you what stance to grab (several good choices). A poor int score really doesn't hurt you if you are just dipping it for a couple of maneuvers and a point of bab.

[gallagher]

frostrager or whatever the prestige class from frostburn is... it is quite nice if you are into unarmed strikes.

primeval is nice, frenzied berserker is batnuts crazy.

what weapon do you wield? i always suggest getting a spell storing net, as it is a touch attack, you have a high strength, and you can have a caster store a dispell magic in it.

[DarkestKnight]

I too would suggest that you have a look into frenzied berserker. It is a bit of a double edge sword. it gives you the power of the incredible hulk on steroids. the drawback is that you are liable to kill your entire party if you stub your toe (I'm not kidding, its part of the rules). If you are interested i would suggest that you approach your DM with a request for a custom item, that would either let a person with a keyed bracelet or such immediately dominate you, to prevent a TPK, or that you wear a device of continuous Calm Emotions, for the same reason.

If you were a different race, such as goliath or half ogre i would suggest Warhulk. it's a martial class with no BAB progress, but it does increase your strength by two every level...You have to be large with Cleave to enter but maybe your DM will allow it (miniatures handbook by the way)

[Dylaer]

I've looked at frienzied berserker, and although nice, would probably be a bit OOC for my guy - he's the tranquil fury type. Fist of the Forest sounds nice, and con to AC would be awesome. Where can I find that one? And would the unarmed damage increase extend to natural weapons?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Fist of the Forest is in Complete Champion. If you don't plan on sticking with Tome of Battle, I would do Barb 4/Warshaper 4/Some Tome of Battle class X/Fist of the Forest 3-5? (Basically, all of it)/Frost Rager 5/More Tome of Battle Class Y, or Bear Warrior, or whatever else floats your boat.

Frost Rager is in Frostburn, gives cold immunity, and buffs your natural attacks/unarmed strikes.

[Darth Stabber]

Fist of the Forest is in Complete Champion. If you don't plan on sticking with Tome of Battle, I would do Barb 4/Warshaper 4/Some Tome of Battle class X/Fist of the Forest 3-5? (Basically, all of it)/Frost Rager 5/More Tome of Battle Class Y, or Bear Warrior, or whatever else floats your boat.

Frost Rager is in Frostburn, gives cold immunity, and buffs your natural attacks/unarmed strikes.

1) fist of the forest is only 3 levels, giving you some grat stuff quickly, all while being fairly easy to qualify for.
2)Frost rager gives no immunity to cold what so ever, one of the prerequisite feats gives you the cold subtype while raging only. Now frost rager does make cold damage heal you while raging (and thus cold immunity, and fire weakness). There is a similar feat in sandstorm that gives you fire subtype (and thus fire immunity and cold weakness) while raging. It is common to see both taken as they cover each others weaknesses.
3)If I recall correctly, by RAW frost rager's bonus damage does not apply to natural weapons (though I think that you could make a case given that you hands/paws are literally charged with the cold energy), and I know that fist of the forest's bonus doesn't apply to claws or bite, but specifically unarmed strikes. Honestly, even if it doesn't apply to your claws, the key to a kungfu bear build is str+volume of attacks. If a couple of attacks miss out on a few points of damage here or there, it isn't a huge deal since all of them still have a ton of str and some power attack behind them.
3)if you can find a way to squeeze shock trooper and leap attack into the build do so. Taking the PA penalty from ac instead of attack roll on a charge is huge (you don't need to dodge when you target is a smouldering pile of rubble from one full attack), and leap attack's PA miltiplier is likewise scary.
4)frenzied berzerker is scary to friends and foes alike. If your party mates have a good reliable way to calm you down, than the class is great, but without one your playing russian roulette with at least 3 chambers loaded.
5) Totemist2 is usefull if you decide to go the kungfu bear route, since it can add more natural weapons to your routine, or potent natural weapon buffs. Any more than two levels of it though are not too helpful unless you want to follow that rabbit hole for a good while.
6)Bear warrior is great, but absolutely do not take all of it. I think 7 is about the max you are going to want. Also remember that while you are hulkbear, you have improved grab, and take advantage of that, since it makes you better at grappling than a lot of characters that are built to grapple.

[Figgin of Chaos]

Anarchic Rage

What's this? It sounds awesome, but googling it has gleaned me nothing.

[Dylaer]

Anarchic Rage is from Dragon Magazine. It means that you rage as a barbarian 4 levels higher, up to your HD.

Just looked over the rules and realized how awesome ToB classes are for dipping. A one level dip into warblade can net me Wall of Blades and Iron Heart Surge! Nice!