NPC Class Campaign?

[NineThePuma]

What does the playground think of such a campaign?

[Bhaakon]

I think it could be fun for a laugh, as long as you're not the one stuck playing commoner. You'd probably have to fudge the XP, though, since CR isn't balanced for NPC classes.

[LordBlades]

I think it would be pretty boring tbh. Except for the Adept, all the other classes have no class features whatsoever.

[Tvtyrant]

I think the idea is dependent on what your going to do with it; if your intention is to scale the battles down to something almost classically medieval then it would be fine; fighting small groups of raiders and making the game about politics would be fine. Essentially if you make it an NPC world where there are almost no monsters then it would work, if you make it a typical D&D world you will be grinding your nose trying to survive.

[Kobold-Bard]

I think it would be pretty boring tbh. Except for the Adept, all the other classes have no class features whatsoever.

I believe Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) would disagree with this assumption.

[grarrrg]

I believe Joe Wood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19558998/Commoner_Campaign) would disagree with this assumption.

Awesome story or not, Commoners still have no class features, that is, special things that only (mostly) they can do/get.
Fighters have feats, Rogues have Sneak Attack, Clerics/Wizards cast spells, Monks do... a lot of random things.
Commoners have...Handle Animal on their skill list. Not by any means unique, but commonly cited as their 'one redeeming trick' (if cheezed out the wazoo anyway)

[Kobold-Bard]

Awesome story or not, Commoners still have no class features, that is, special things that only (mostly) they can do/get.
Fighters have feats, Rogues have Sneak Attack, Clerics/Wizards cast spells, Monks do... a lot of random things.
Commoners have...Handle Animal on their skill list. Not by any means unique, but commonly cited as their 'one redeeming trick' (if cheezed out the wazoo anyway)

Oh, I meant the "would be pretty boring" comment, not the class features one. Obviously that's true.

[XianTheCoder]

One of my friends loves to run low level low magic campaigns, and he frequently does NPC games or mandatory first level NPC class campaigns.

I say this with as much love as I can muster.... the ONLY reason I play in the NPC class games is because it is either that or nothing (as our circle has been widdled down to nothing).... it royally sucks, its boring, and I tend to aim at blowing the game up as fast as possible (and I am not alone). The sad part is that he's actually a great DM when it comes to story telling.... NPC games just suck that much.

[Lateral]

They can be pretty fun, low-powered campaigns so long as you don't force anyone to be a Commoner. Adepts are stronger than the rest by a bit, but they won't be too bad. Experts can be pretty awesome with the right skills. Warriors are decent meatshields for this sort of thing, but honestly I'd give them the bonus feat progression of a Psychic Warrior or something, to bump them up a little. Aristocrat's pretty bad, and Commoner is unusable.

[grarrrg]

Oh, I meant the "would be pretty boring" comment, not the class features one. Obviously that's true.

Understood.

As long as we are discussing Commoners, don't forget about Bubs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38).

[Divide by Zero]

Commoners get Chicken-Infested, though.

[Bob the DM]

It could definately work, but it really depends what you'd doing.
Are you going to run a few sessions to showcase where your players start?
Are you making them play out their backstory (going to fighter camps, wizard school or clown college)?
Or are you doing an epic, commoner saves the world LoTR quest?

[LOTRfan]

Or are you doing an epic, commoner saves the world LoTR quest?

That is the best kind of NPC class campaigns.

[gorfnab]

In an NPC only campaign I would probably play either an Adept or Magewright (ECS). Now it would be really amusing if someone played a Mlar (Dungeon #100/Polyhedron #159) in an NPC only campagin.

[NineThePuma]

Aristocrat's pretty bad, and Commoner is unusable.

I respectfully disagree with the former; I have fun with an Aristocrat Diplomancer//Knowledge Devoted individual. It's amusing for me, but that may be beccause of the look on my DM's face when she realizes that her prepared Uber encounter just got taken apart by me being diplomatic and being hard to kill. Was amusing.


However, let me think; the Aristocrat is a physically trained fighter, but is more of a party face type. Warrior is physically trained, more of a random militia man. Expert is kinda sneaky and stuff. Adept is a pseudo-Divine caster. Commoner is nothing. Maybe convert commoner into something sort of like a pseudo-nature person?

[Knaight]

However, let me think; the Aristocrat is a physically trained fighter, but is more of a party face type. Warrior is physically trained, more of a random militia man. Expert is kinda sneaky and stuff. Adept is a pseudo-Divine caster. Commoner is nothing. Maybe convert commoner into something sort of like a pseudo-nature person?

Aristocrat, Warrior, Expert, and Adept really cover everything that needs to be covered when it comes to people who aren't untrained laborers or subsistence farmers. Commoner is for those. Really, the odd one out is the Adept, just due to being overtly magical, and the equal or better of many PC classes.

Concerning not having class features, in a game that isn't combat heavy they really only serve a role in niche protection, which isn't something that needs to be worried about all that much in any game framework that is based on character personalities.

[Thurbane]

I think it would be a fun idea. Would you allow them to mix NPC classes with PrCs and/or racial paragon classes?

They even made a module based on the concept of NPC classes as adventurers: http://www.goodmangames.com/5100preview.html

http://www.iguk.co.uk/ProductImages2/3468.jpg

[ILM]

A friend of mine used to run campaigns where the players had 2 PCs each: one high-power big damn hero handling the big stuff (planar travel, demon-slaying, whatever) and then secondary characters. They'd come into play when the main characters got to like level 8-12, where they would have gained some sort of base of operations - thieves' guild, friendly noble who made them high-ranking members of the guard, that kind of stuff. Those characters were played in maybe one session out of three or four and has small, separate quests that somehow tied into the main story arc. Maybe they were finding information for the main heroes, or questing for a rare type of supply, or providing a distraction in the enemy flank. Support-type stuff. You could try something like that in your campaign: pull out the commoners once in a while and send them on a quest that is both appropriate for their threat-level, and provides some advantage to the main heroes of the game.

It's like playing Robin once every few games in a Batman campaign :smalltongue:.

[gorfnab]

Maybe convert commoner into something sort of like a pseudo-nature person?
You could use Keith Baker's Gleaner (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html). It's a nature based NPC.

[Tvtyrant]

Actually if you made them fight things at half normal CR it would work pretty well; Kobolds at level 1, Goblins at 2, Orcs at three, etc. It would make humanoids a bigger threat longer into the game.

[Morty]

I think it could be a fun game. Instead of cutting through encounters with spells and steel, the PCs would have to think quickly on their feet to make the best use of their limited resources. And in my view, it's much more of an accomplishment to kill an orc warlord as a Warrior, Adept, Aristocrat and Expert than Fighter, Cleric, Wizard and Rogue. The PC classes do this sort of thing routinely; the NPC classes aren't supposed to tackle such things which makes it all the more impressive when they do.

[Knaight]

Actually if you made them fight things at half normal CR it would work pretty well; Kobolds at level 1, Goblins at 2, Orcs at three, etc. It would make humanoids a bigger threat longer into the game.

CR is theoretically an exponential system, so CR -2 is more functional, though there is all sorts of weirdness at the lower end.

[NineThePuma]

They shall fight cats for their entire first level! (I'm mostly joking.)




(Mostly.)

[Malkav]

In an NPC only campaign I would probably play either an Adept or Magewright (ECS). Now it would be really amusing if someone played a Mlar (Dungeon #100/Polyhedron #159) in an NPC only campagin.

What book is ECS?

[NineThePuma]

Eberron Campaign Setting