SWSE - New GM question

[Stellar_Kraken]

This is my first time GMing a game, and I am not really picky the game I am most suited to gm. My main game is L5R, but due to players being picky I am not going to be able to do one of that game. So I picked the one I like/know 2nd best. But herein lies the problem.

The game is going to consist of 3 players (possibly a 4th played by their young son). And I have a feeling jedi are going to be the majority of the party. What is the easiest setting for a jedi campaign. It has to stay very fantasy (one of the members only likes fantasy stories), and yet be fun for a young child.

I know the prequel and original trilogy storylines very well, but don't know if they would make very good settings. Any suggestion would help. And yes it is my first time posting here so hello all! :smallsmile:

[Mando Knight]

What kind of fantasy? Star Wars is Space Opera, that is, Fantasy IN SPAAAAACE!

Star Wars can do a lot of different things... if you're interested, look in the appropriate era's setting book for more details. Clone Wars and Rebellion Era cover the movies. Force Unleashed covers the period the game of the same name takes place in (known as the Dark Times), Knights of the Old Republic covers the two KotOR games and the Dark Horse comic of the same name (about 4000-3000 BBY), and Legacy covers the period roughly 130 ABY, introduced in another Dark Horse comic series.

There's also the Unknown Regions, which is where you'll find the stuff that's weird even to people who bargain with giant slugs and swing laser swords. And the Chiss.

For a Jedi campaign, you'll want to stick with before the end of the Clone Wars or after Luke re-establishes the Jedi Order (he establishes a new academy some time after the Thrawn crisis, which is 5 years after Endor). The Dark Times is not a kid-friendly time (Jedi are now outlaws hunted by Palpatine's elite, Non-huMans (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Non-huMan) are second-class citizens unless Palpatine himself took a liking to them, etc.) and is more suited for a Space-Noir campaign.

I'd also check out/rent/whatever The Clone Wars TV show. Surprisingly good (and it gets better as it goes on), it's perfect prep material for getting ideas on how to run various kinds of Star Wars-y campaigns.

SPAAAAAAAAAACE! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcs4klrjlwE)

[Stellar_Kraken]

well the player in particular only really like Game of thrones/D&D type of fantasy. The problem is the sci fi stigma on star wars. I have all but 4 of the saga books. And unfortunately, I have fallen out on alot of the storylines. I am thinking the episode 1 - 2 had the most kid friendly storylines, but the adults hate the prequels which is also a big problem. So really I just feel at a loss.

[Mando Knight]

Clone Wars is essentially Space 'Nam in some places, Space WWII in others, and Space American Civil War in others. Not exactly the most kid friendly... how old is the kid we're talking about?

As for fantasy... well, your obstinate player needs... work. Like coming to believe this.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/70/motivator8185511zk9.jpg

If he dislikes the coat of SPAAACE! paint on Sci-Fi/Fantasy, you're not going to win him over with Star Wars. I'd suggest Stargate SG-1 to break him in, but two of the four main characters are career military guys, and the fantasy focused on in the first few seasons are the Space Egyptians and the Space Inquisition is in the bad part of the series.

[Stellar_Kraken]

2nd grade. And I just feel that the Jedi class would be a much better fantasy -> sci fi gap. I unfortunately know nothing of the sg-1 rpg. I only know a few games. I don't play all that many, just started 2 years ago. And I am playing this for one of the players, he wants to try it out. He played the old d6 one.

Only thing i can think of is new republic era and kinda put a Return of the Jedi spin on it.

[Mando Knight]

Not the game, the show. Tie him down in a chair and force him to watch the first few seasons. You can probably stop once you get to the episodes after Jack gets promoted to General.

[Katana_Geldar]

The most important question you must ask in a Star Wars game is When is it set? as this more or less dictates what sort of game you can run.

I suggest the KOTOR era for a party of Jedi, as Jedi were rather autonomous in what they did and there older students taken on. And there were some Jedi who even married and had kids, and a few even went into politics.

There's also a lot of room to move in that era in terms of story, the hardest part of a SW game is making it yours as there's already so much there.

Be very careful when your players make their characters, particularly with Skill Focus. I have strict limits on this (only even 5th level it's allowed) as it makes characters too overpowered.

[Stellar_Kraken]

oh I think lines got crossed, the 2nd grader isn't the one with a aversion to sci fi. His mother is :p

The father wants to play saga, so I have the book so I offered to run it. So I need a setting that is kid friendly, while also having a good selection of storyline moments I can pull from to keep it more fantasy

[Katana_Geldar]

:smallsigh:

I've tried to explain this, there are no "settings" in Star Wars like there are in D&D as Star Wars exists, more or less, as a continuum of time. You have to choose when you want to have your game, as different eras tend to go for different genres. (Though some genres, like scum and villany, tend to fit all eras.)

And the genre of the game depends a lot on what the players want to do. If you want a Jedi campaign, you wouldn't be in a scum and villany one as that usually involves drugs, slavery, gun running and prostitution.

Can I suggest rolling up character for the players, generic ones from every class but NOT a Jedi yet, doing a simple adventure (like being on a ship attacked by Sith/the Empire/pirates) and then asking your players what they like doing. Star Wars is a very versatile system, you can make it what you want.

And you need to steer away from what you see in the movies, or you'll just have a fantasy tour of sights and characters.

[Stellar_Kraken]

I understand what you mean. I must be saying it wrong, I mean era when I speak of setting. the problem lies in this, everyone wants to play a jedi. Can't change that. The son wants to be a jedi, the mother will only play a jedi, the father will probably place something else, and my hubby will only play a jedi.

I am screwed in that sense. My problem is that i can't for the life of me find a era that fits all those criteria. My players are handcuffing me, and there isn't a way around it. Trying to please everyone, and it is my very first gm session. ::pulls hair out::

SO I need a era that can easily do a child friendly game WHILE having heavy fantasy elements. And from what I remember of KOTOR is that isn't very kid friendly

[Katana_Geldar]

Could you excuse me for a moment?

*walks quietly out of the thread, has raging panic attack, walks quietly back*

Ahem, where were we?

Now, I strongly suggest the KOTOR era as this is when you had many Jedi just walking around. The era also has a strong fantasy element (think the computer games) and you can make it kid friendly, if you like (though personally I don't like gaming with kids and adults together, they want different things). Anything can be made kid-friendly or non-kid friendly though.

Here's a suggestion, make the son a padawan learner of one of the older Jedi (level 7 or below in Jedi, depending on the age) as it can mean you've got some reins on the kid to some extent.
Then, you are the Jedi Council and you give your players missions to complete. There were non-Jedi who assisted the Jedi in missions in the KOTOR era (Carth, Mission etc).

Finally, there's the story which is where your fantasy elements will be. Fantasy in Star Wars is almost always about the Force and the various different ways it is or is not in the galaxy (like the Yuuzhan Vong, but that's another story). But, that can wait until you get them actually playing.

How much experience do your players have with Saga? If they're newbies you might want to try and convince them to not play Jedi for just one session so they can get the feel of the game. I never let new players play Jedi in my group until they have convinced me they know how to play.

If they do know their banthas, send them on a blue milk run for the first time so you can knock all those first session as a party jitters out of the water before you get serious about anything. Something easy like escorting a senator to a diplomatic meeting, locating and destroying some pirates or slavers. Listen to your players as you do this and feel free to improvise, they may give you a few plot hooks to use later when you get into story.
After the first session, talk with them and ask where they want the game to go as it's their story. Take notes and make suggestions, but don't give any answers, you need to keep them on their toes.

I can't give you a fantasy story for your game, every group is different and they might not like it. It's far better to build a story with yourplayers that you all have some ownership in.

[Mando Knight]

Depends on what you mean by kid-friendly. Clone Wars is an easy time to break things down into black and white "Jedi good, battle droids evil" morality. Just stay away from the more controversial Space 'Nam bits (Is the war legal/right/whatever? The Senate is fairly corrupt... are we on the right side after all? Is it OK to breed a gazillion clones just to have robots kill them all?) when you're running it and you should be fine... TCW again is fairly good reference material for showing how widely you can play the eras. One downside: although the battle droids have many different models beyond the standard B-1 idiots, the enemy is still 99.9999% robots (give or take). Not really something for someone who strongly prefers fantasy over sci-fi/space opera.

The Galactic Civil War is also fairly black and white, though in that era there's only a few Jedi left... and three gathering together would be a blinking neon "Come here and kill us, Vader!" sign. Dark Times is also black and white, but the bad guys are winning, and will win again and again until some farmboy vapes the largest battlestation ever constructed in a one-in-a-million shot.

For the New Republic era, the Empire dies down slowly but surely, but the Jedi aren't really back at full strength until the Remnant falls quiet... and the Vong come, and that's a long and brutal war. New Republic works best if you've got some kind of warlord with one of the Emperor's five or six hundred "missing" super dreadnoughts/superweapons/etc. to serve as the main villain.

KotOR is horrible for black and white morality. Except that Malak is such an obvious villain that he might as well have had a twirly mustache and top hat instead of a metal jaw. And the Jedi Council is against defending the Republic from the Mandalorians since they thought it would lead to the Dark Side (they were correct, but whether it was the right thing to do is tricky), then three years after Revan does his KotOR thing, all the Jedi disappear again and Sith assassins show up everywhere...

Legacy is mostly the same old song and dance, though its Skywalker is a brooding anti-hero, and the Empire is split down the middle between Roan Fel's Empire of Pretty Cool Guys and Darth Krayt's Empire of Really Evil Bad Guys. To keep the series going, the war's mostly give and take... though Krayt took a lot early on.

[Stellar_Kraken]

I agree with you I don't like gaming with kids either, but it is summer break and the father wants to pass on tabletop to his offspring. Can't fault him that. I have tried talking them out of jedi, but it didn't work. So, it is jedi for first game. The mother refuses to play a character with a gun, even though there are vibroblades ::shares your panic attack::

I think you might be right about KOTOR, and will probably set it that way. Only problem is doing a level 7 campaign. Because I am not fairly comfortable with creating npcs right now either. What I think it is coming down to is I should be doing a l5r campaign. I know my **** there, but this is just becoming a headache. I feel for gm's now I really do.

Most games I play start at level 4 so that seems like where I will place my party at. NO destiny points either. If this was for adults I would not have this problem.

Probably do a kotor age story about the young jedi doing a test given by their master, and stumbling upon something ancient that ties them together or some sort. No skill focus (use the force) till level 7.

And while I am asking questions, how are enemy npcs usually built level wise?

[Mando Knight]

Grab Threats of the Galaxy or the KotOR campaign book and take a look. Without checking the math, I can tell you that it uses nonheroic levels to provide buffer HP, with the elites getting a couple heroic levels to show that they're cooler than the normal mooks. Boss characters (Moff Whats-his-name, Darth Evilface, etc.) would be given just heroic levels, as well as any prestige classes that would make sense for them. If the heroes aren't going to fight someone, that someone doesn't need stats. If they fight someone you didn't expect them to, grab one of the books and pick a premade NPC that is close enough.

On the other note, if you're only comfortable running L5R, then I'd hold off on running SAGA until you get a little more familiar with the setting and system, or at least make sure that the adult players recognize that you're trying to get comfortable with the system so you'll need them to be a bit patient with you.

[Katana_Geldar]

The same as heros, but they can have levels of Non-heroic to make them a bit squishier. The template for non-heroic class is in the core book.

Here's the thing about Jedi and levels, Padawans are usually level 6 or lower as at Level 7 a Jedi becomes a knight and makes his/her own lightsaber. If you want a Jedi Knight, they will need to be at least level 7 with perhaps a level or two in the Jedi Knight Prestige Class. I always see the classes a character has as part of their story, anyway.

[Stellar_Kraken]

Thank both of you for your help btw. I am always surprised just how helpful the pnp gaming community really is.

and sorry I wasn't clear again ( i am good at that). I remember reading somewhere that to depower enemy npcs you just -1 to stats or defense and weaken them. Or if the players are just killing things to easy you raise +1 to stats or defenses. It was some really easy simple fix that sounds like a boon for my first game.

[Katana_Geldar]

My blog has a lot of stuff about Star Wars Saga if you want to trawl through it, I talk about genre and time periods as well as research. There's also a podcast, sagacast, that I have linked to on there. Check it out as I am interviewed in the third episode...and it's good too. :smallbiggrin:

[Seatbelt]

When I was in second grade I remember thinking Star Wars was cool because of the space ships and the battles. It didn't register to me that Han shoots first, the stuff smoldering outside Luke's home on Tatooine were the corpses of Owen and Beru. There was a lot about the story I just didn't understand. But I knew who the good guys and the bad guys were, I knew that X-wings and Tie Fighters were cool, and that I wanted a light saber and force powers. So for the little one try focusing on these things. Make sure the bad guys are really identifiable. Describe actions, especially his actions, as exciting and totally awesome.


For example a story that might grab everyone is that all the people in a villiage/city/planet are sick with some strange disease. The Jedi council has heard of a long lost artifact that might help channel the force to cure the disease, and some Big Bad Evil Dude is trying to stop you because he has some really bad motivation. Have the primary opponents be primarily melee wielding mooks to appeal to the high fantasy person, with occasional ranged support. Splash in some speeder bike chases and space ship combat to taste and boom. There you go. You have a stereotypical high fantasy story (find the magic mcguffin) and villains and a clear, simple story with good guys and bad guys.


Just remember, the adults might want to have a role-playing experience. But the 8 year old just wants to be awesome because in Star Wars, stuff is pretty awesome. The trick is to let him be awesome while developing a healthy respect for the rules and good table etiquette.

[Viszla]

When I was in second grade I remember thinking Star Wars was cool because of the space ships and the battles. It didn't register to me that Han shoots first, the stuff smoldering outside Luke's home on Tatooine were the corpses of Owen and Beru. There was a lot about the story I just didn't understand. But I knew who the good guys and the bad guys were, I knew that X-wings and Tie Fighters were cool, and that I wanted a light saber and force powers. So for the little one try focusing on these things. Make sure the bad guys are really identifiable. Describe actions, especially his actions, as exciting and totally awesome.


1.For example a story that might grab everyone is that all the people in a villiage/city/planet are sick with some strange disease. 2. The Jedi council has heard of a long lost artifact that might help channel the force to cure the disease, and some 3. Big Bad Evil Dude is trying to stop you because he has some really bad motivation.



1.*cough**cough*RAKGHOUL DISEASE*cough**cough*

2.*cough**cough*MUUR TALISMAN*cough**cough

3. *cough**cough*CAN ALSO BE USED TO TURN PEOPLE INTO RAKGHOULS THAT OBEY THE USER'S EVERY WHIM *cough**cough*

Note: The Muur Talisman is a Dark Side artifact infused with the Force ghost of the ancient Sith Lord Karness Muur. The person using it is constantly threatened by the possibility of having their will broken and being possessed as the new host of the Dark Lord.


KOTOR really seems the most fitting era for what your players want. And if you do go with the Rakghoul disease, Taris would be the most fitting world to be afflicted by it, though it is seen in many different corners of the galaxy at this time. Also, while nothing directly contradicts it canonically, it would be less controversial to not give the Talisman the direct ability to cure the disease in the hands of any Force user, but rather in the hands of one with an innate affinity for healing with The Force, such as Cade Skywalker from the Legacy era, or Master Cilghal in the New Jedi Order.

Also, you might want to read these:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakghoul

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Muur_Talisman#Abilities

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakghoul_plague


As a separate note, if your older players find the fantasy elements lacking, you might consider sending them to the worlds of Anzat and Alpheridies, the homeworlds of the Anzati and Miraluka respectively. The Anzati are basically Force-vampires (which would make them particularly interested in the taste of your party's "soup", or Force energy), and the Miraluka are naturally blind seers who use The Force to see both their surroundings and the future. The Miraluka would be more likely to accept your party than the Anzati, and would probably even be as helpful as they could to your party.