1e magic

[olthar]

I recently rolled up a wizard in a game that is an amalgam of 1e and 3.5. My DM chose all my spells and one of the ones I ended up with was polymorph self. This seems like something that can be a lot of fun, but I'm very confused by the spell.

1st, the spell lets me change form from sparrow to hippopotamus size. What exactly is hippopotamus size? According to word of god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippopotamus) they are heavy (up to 3 tons) and can be up to 17 feet long, but they are only 5 feet tall. So am I constrained by weight, length, height, or some combination of some or all of those?

2nd, I change into the monster and I gain its form of locomotion, but I don't get any special attacks, or defenses. The example given is a brown pudding where I can move under a door, but I don't have the defensive capabilities of a brown pudding. What does that mean though? If I become a creature, then I presumably have the same limitations and skin as said creature. So if I become something with a thick skin (high NA) then presumably I have the same thick skin but I don't get its benefit?

Also, why do I retain my dex bonus if I turn into a brown pudding? I shouldn't be able to quickly dodge an attack if I'm a slow moving ooze. It does make sense that I don't improve my dex by becoming something fast, but it makes too much sense for me to lose it if I become something slow (since I gain its form of movement).

[Gamer Girl]

1)It's just for general size. From from sparrow to hippopotamus size gives you the general size you can be: small bird to big animal. Your not constrained by weight, length, height, or some combination of some or all of those...other then you can't be any bigger or smaller.

2)You don't ''really'' become the creature, you simply change your bodies shape into a shape that looks just like the creature. So it's still your 'body', it just looks different. If you have wings you can fly, but if the creature is immune to fire, you don't get that. Your not changing the 'insides' of your body at all, just the outside. In effect, you'd be a human that just looked just like an owl or pudding. You need higher level magic to get real abilities.

3) 1E ignores ability scores for this. Your 'original' bodies ability scores stay with you. This is along the lines of 'your not really that creature, you just look like one'. You don't loose Dex if your something 'slow', but you will loose movement speed if you become something slow.


If your in a 1e/3e game, you might want to use the 3e version of :

You acquire the physical and natural abilities of the creature you have polymorphed into while retaining your own mind. Physical abilities include natural size and Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores. Natural abilities include armor, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, swoop and rake, and constriction; but not petrifaction, breath weapons, energy drain, energy effect, etc.), and similar gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, etc.). A body with extra limbs does not allow a character to make more attacks (or more advantageous two weapon attacks) than normal. Natural abilities also include mundane movement capabilities, such as walking, swimming, and flight with wings. The caster's new scores and faculties are average ones for the race or species into which you have transformed. You cannot, for example, turn into a mighty weight lifter to give yourself great Strength.

And Pathfinder gets really, really picking on this spell...you might want to check it out.

[Premier]

1st, the spell lets me change form from sparrow to hippopotamus size. What exactly is hippopotamus size? According to word of god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippopotamus) they are heavy (up to 3 tons) and can be up to 17 feet long, but they are only 5 feet tall. So am I constrained by weight, length, height, or some combination of some or all of those?

See, this is a philosophical difference between old school D&D and WotC-D&D. The second one would have you believe that you need an exact, official and accurate rule on how large/long/heavy/voluminous you can exactly be. The first simply says "hippopotamus-sized". Just use common sense. Something roughly the size of a hippo is okay, a fully grown African elephant is probably not. If you're unsure, ask your DM."



2nd, I change into the monster and I gain its form of locomotion, but I don't get any special attacks, or defenses. The example given is a brown pudding where I can move under a door, but I don't have the defensive capabilities of a brown pudding. What does that mean though? If I become a creature, then I presumably have the same limitations and skin as said creature. So if I become something with a thick skin (high NA) then presumably I have the same thick skin but I don't get its benefit?

Ask your DM, especially since this is a hybrid game. Me, I would personally rule that A, sure, you get the creature's Armor Class and attacks (whatever bite, claw, poison stinger, etc. it might have, but you're still using your own human THAC0/BAB), because the DM's ruling overrides the book; whereas if you insist on a close reading of the latter, then B, the spell doesn't actually turn you into a pudding/owl/whatever, only into an artificial creature which looks the same, but is really just an imperfect magical simulacrum. Note how the description explicitly states that you would not get the (perfectly natural, non-magical) night vision of an owl, suggesting you're not turned into an actual, genuine specimen.

Even if the DM gives you the creature's AC, what you'd certainly not get (BTB) in terms of defense would be stuff like a demon's magic resistance and partial/full immunity to fire, silver, iron, etc..

[hamlet]

GG said it mostly. The application of common sense is key here.

As for special abilities/qualities, the simple fact is that you can change form into one of those creatures (eg, a ghoul), but you don't actually become a ghoul. So you would look like one, move like one, presumably attack like one (claw/claw/bite), but you would not be able to cause paralyzation against foes, and if you were to eat the rotting meat of a corpse, you would likely become ill because of it.

The book example of a brown pudding is another good example. You look like a pudding, move like one, but you aren't actually one. So you don't get the special abilities and defensive capabilities due to those qualities, so cutting off pieces of you still will kill you.

However, and this is a GM call, you would certainly gain some benefits of your form. Changing into, for instance, an armadillo, would net you a bonus to AC for a tough hide, and you'd retain your AC bonus from DEX certainly. For the most part, a GM can do well by just pulling out the stats on the creature you've changed into and handing over the gist of it to you for spell duration.

[Jay R]

If everyone thinks it's bigger than a hippopotamus, then it is. I would base it on volume and weight, and allow a giraffe, but not an elephant.

The purpose of the limitations on attacks and defenses is to prevent magic-users from using it subvert their intended limitations and become melee fighters.

In original D&D, Polymorph Others gave the attacks and defenses of the creature, but Polymorph Self did not. Clearly this is a game-balance rule, not based on logic.