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SamBurke
2011-05-19, 12:42 AM
So, I want to start a post apocalyptic zombie game. Problem is, I've looked at d20 Modern, and it just doesn't have the class choices of something like standard DnD.

I'm most familiar with Pathfinder, so I was tempted to rip all of the classes and change them to modern times, but then I thought: that's a lot of crunch and fluff to rewrite, as everything is based on spells.

Here's the basic question: I need a modern-day sort of thing with a lot of choice, a lot of buildability, that's DnD based, preferably 3.5/Pathfinder/d20Modern. Anybody have suggestions?

Knaight
2011-05-19, 12:47 AM
The d20 modern classes are all surprisingly versatile, but if you want something a little closer to D&D go ahead and take Star Wars SAGA Edition and drag down the technology level a bunch.

hamlet
2011-05-19, 07:56 AM
Palladium actually just put out a Zombie Apocalypse game recently. Year or two ago maybe.

Or the old standby of All Flesh Must be Eaten.

Can't speak to the level of customizability and how it works out for you, but they're the best I know of.

EDIT: Lessen' you want to go play in Darwin's world that is.

Kuma Kode
2011-05-19, 08:36 AM
d20 Modern Post-Apocalyptic Zombie Game? A bit of a shameless plug, but you did see my Shadow Theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147142) project, right?

d20 Modern is meant to be sufficiently generic to play pretty much anyone from the modern world. There's just too many different archetypes to stuff into classes. Most of the specialization comes from feats and advanced classes, which can help you get to be just as focused as D&D classes.

The Rose Dragon
2011-05-19, 08:45 AM
True20, if you really need to be based on the d20 system. It has even fewer classes than d20 Modern, but it's not as horrible and has more options when it comes to building characters.

Otherwise, I will suggest All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It has no classes at all (unless you count Inspired, Survivor and Norm as classes), and is not d20-based (it doesn't even use d20s for damage, though it uses almost every other dice), but a great deal more choice and buildability than D&D or d20 Modern.

Kiero
2011-05-19, 12:45 PM
Forget D20, AFMBE is the game for zombies.

Delwugor
2011-05-19, 12:45 PM
I know someone running a zombie apocalypse game with True20 and he loves it. Not only is it generic but very easy for any experienced with D&D or D20 Modern to pick up and run quickly.

If your looking to go very light then Microlite 20 should do the job and keep familiarity with D20.

Another lite system to look at is Mini Six (http://www.antipaladingames.com/minisix.html) which is based on WEG d6 systems - now Open d6. There is even a fan contributed zombie adaptation called Zombies Ate my Best Man (http://www.antipaladingames.com/submissions.html).

Jude_H
2011-05-19, 01:02 PM
Spycraft is a lot like d20 Modern with lots of explicit classes. Many of its rules are genre-specific, but you might be able to hack it into a post-apocalyptic game.


For what it's worth, I prefer All Flesh Must Be Eaten for this kind of game. It's just less obnoxious than dealing with d20's power spread and more interesting than trying to force a specific type of game into a generic gaming system.

The Rose Dragon
2011-05-19, 01:12 PM
For what it's worth, I prefer All Flesh Must Be Eaten for this kind of game. It's just less obnoxious than dealing with d20's power spread and more interesting than trying to force a specific type of game into a generic gaming system.

All Flesh Must Be Eaten is a generic gaming system, though. It is almost exactly the same as Witchcraft sans witchcraft and Terra Primate sans apes. It just happens to have zombies in it.

randomhero00
2011-05-19, 02:05 PM
Hmmm. I might vote Exalted (white wolf) but that depends on the level of power you want. Anywho, if the undead apocalypse is serious (such as involving demigods and minor gods) then Exalted would deal pretty well fit them. It is also very versatile. Once you pick a "caste" (i.e. class) you can still be very versatile.

If you need to (depending on the game) either transform melee weaponry into guns or ranged in guns (and still keep melee).

Jude_H
2011-05-19, 02:13 PM
All Flesh Must Be Eaten is a generic gaming system, though. It is almost exactly the same as Witchcraft sans witchcraft and Terra Primate sans apes. It just happens to have zombies in it.
Interesting. I've never looked into the other Unisystem games. AFMBE's rules feel very well designed for action-horror, but clunky for other genres*; I'd figured Witchcraft and the others were similar. I'll see if I can give some of the others a read.

Edit for clarification: *Explicit skill adjudications, exploding successes and failures, relatively flat character advancement, speed and endurance as central game mechanics, lack of player support mechanics (action points), explicit rules-based damage interpretations... there are a bunch of system things that combine to make it a very nice rules system for action-horror, but unwieldy for other game styles.

Kiero
2011-05-19, 06:47 PM
Interesting. I've never looked into the other Unisystem games. AFMBE's rules feel very well designed for action-horror, but clunky for other genres*; I'd figured Witchcraft and the others were similar. I'll see if I can give some of the others a read.

Edit for clarification: *Explicit skill adjudications, exploding successes and failures, relatively flat character advancement, speed and endurance as central game mechanics, lack of player support mechanics (action points), explicit rules-based damage interpretations... there are a bunch of system things that combine to make it a very nice rules system for action-horror, but unwieldy for other game styles.

Those are all the facets of Classic Unisystem. Cinematic Unisystem (Buffy, Angel, Armies of Darkness, Ghosts of Albion) is a different kettle of fish.

BardicDuelist
2011-05-19, 08:08 PM
FATE. It works well.

Geigan
2011-05-19, 08:26 PM
FATE. It works well.

WARNING: Do not confuse with FATAL.

Aidan305
2011-05-19, 08:37 PM
There's a new zombie-specific game specifically designed for survival horror games that came out recently. I'm trying to remember what it's called but it's eluding me unfortunately.All I can remember is that it's a pretty thick book with a white cover.

Jude_H
2011-05-19, 09:27 PM
@OP I was just dinking around on Google, and what I'm seeing is making Year of the Zombie sound like it might be interesting. I haven't read it, but apparently it's a d20 supplement focused on post-apocalyptic zombies, with flavor-based classes like Lawman and Feral Child. It might be worth at least perusing some reviews.

Regarding Fate: I love fate. Diaspora is one of my favorite RPGs. But some of the things that make it wonderful - player empowerment and freedom of interpretation for GMs - make it a system I'd avoid for zombie survival. I might be projecting my own take on the genre, but the characters are impotence is part of the point. Tagging is empowering, plot manipulation is empowering. Also, PCs are going to get hosed in the genre, and IME it's less disagreeable if the system tells them how and why. It's also designed under a totally different paradigm than D&D.

Aidan: is that Outbreak: Undead (http://outbreakundead.com/)? That came out this year and is supposed to have some cool zombie-themed material. I've been wanting to peruse it, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere (and the price tag's higher than I'm willing to go sight-unseen :/).

wayfare
2011-05-20, 12:16 AM
Kuma Kode's Shadow Theory (hosted here on the playground) is really, really good stuff. Mechanically sound, great fluff -- easily the most publishable homebrew I've seen on these boards.

Read it here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147142

GenericFighter
2011-05-20, 02:59 AM
Although far from d20 based, Savage Worlds is made for this kind of campaign. I don't think you'd need more than the core rules, but Pinnacle is furtively working on a 'Horror Companion' probably due out later this year. They're pretty tight-lipped about their forthcoming products and release dates beyond 'we're working on it' and 'when it's ready'.

In the ancient, misty past there was a d20 Call of Cthulhu. CoC players balked and scoffed at its d20ness and I don't recall anyone else having much praise for it.

Kiero
2011-05-20, 04:55 AM
Regarding Fate: I love fate. Diaspora is one of my favorite RPGs. But some of the things that make it wonderful - player empowerment and freedom of interpretation for GMs - make it a system I'd avoid for zombie survival. I might be projecting my own take on the genre, but the characters are impotence is part of the point. Tagging is empowering, plot manipulation is empowering. Also, PCs are going to get hosed in the genre, and IME it's less disagreeable if the system tells them how and why. It's also designed under a totally different paradigm than D&D.


Those same "empowering" tools can also be used to reinforce genre over and again. What do you think Compels are for, after all, if not to keep reeling things back to the tropes of the zombie genre?

zanetheinsane
2011-05-20, 06:45 AM
If you already have d20 Modern they did put out a d20 Modern Apocalypse. It doesn't have any zombie-specific rules or scenarios but the basic scenario is perfect for just adding in zombies.

There are some better systems out there specifically tailored to zombie-play, but if you originally went to d20 because it was something you were already familiar with then you should give it a look-over.

Sometimes it can be easier to adapt a system that everyone in your group already knows than to learn the nuances and quirks of a new one.

Necro_EX
2011-05-20, 07:16 AM
All Flesh has been suggested, but I'm just going to go ahead and give that one my confidence as well. It's a great game entirely tailored to the concept of a zombie apocalypse with just enough crunch to support the game, but not so much that it gets in the way of the story or setting or anything, plus it's flexible enough for you to throw all sorts of crazy apocalypses at them.

I ran an All Flesh game set during America's Civil War.
It was freaking great. Everyone died, but it was great.

If you're not interested in picking up any new books, then I'd definitely have to suggest using d20 modern. I had thought the same thing about the classes the first time I looked at it, but looking at it again I saw how malleable those classes actually are. Because they're more like archetypes than classes in the traditional sense you can mix and match a lot more freely and those talents definitely give you some nice room for character building.

I'm running a post-apocalyptic d20 modern game myself, actually. It's not a zombie apocalypse, but it's doing its job for my game. I also took the shot clock from Aces & Eights and made a table for melee attack placement so I could have armor offer sectional DR, since the game has a Mad Max kind of vibe and everyone's bound to have asymmetric armor. To keep the 'you have to destroy the brain' trope with zombie horror you could probably do the same, so only a headshot truly kills the undead. To borrow from All Flesh you could implement called shots (incurring significant negative modifiers to the attack rolls).

SamBurke
2011-05-20, 10:13 AM
Hmmm. I might vote Exalted (white wolf) but that depends on the level of power you want. Anywho, if the undead apocalypse is serious (such as involving demigods and minor gods) then Exalted would deal pretty well fit them. It is also very versatile. Once you pick a "caste" (i.e. class) you can still be very versatile.

No, it's not that serious. I'm trying to run a relatively scientific campaign, using no magitech, telekinetics, or any of that whatnot. *Whistles to hide the various ways of timetravel* It's just plain science game. Nothing else. Nope. *Whistle*

Anyway, thanks for all these great suggestions, and keep 'em coming! I think this is definitely the help I was hoping for.

Fridrik Bj
2011-05-20, 11:05 AM
Have a look at Apocalypse world. It's a generic apocalypse system that can be used to simulate most apocalypse settings, everything from Fallout to Firefly.

LINK: http://apocalypse-world.com/ It might be what you are looking for.

Another one is Zombie Cinema. It's a Finnish game built to simulate a zombie movie.

LINK: http://www.arkenstonepublishing.net/zombiecinema

A third one is DREAD. It's a RPG with a Jenga tower as the play mechanic. I've heard it simulates horror cinema extremely well.

LINK: http://dreadthegame.wordpress.com/about-dread-the-game/

The first one is a long term campaign game, the other two are built as one shot games.

SamBurke
2011-05-23, 11:08 AM
I love the idea of Dread, as it's fun to manipulate, but I'm doing it online, so that's not as plausible.

Overall, I'll just use d20Modern, encourage dipping and multi-classing, and throw in some homebrew. Some of those suggestions, too, are great, like Shadow Theory. BTW, can I use that anytime, or do I need to contact him?

Kuma Kode
2011-05-23, 12:55 PM
Multiclassing isn't encouraged in d20 Modern; it's expected. This is why both advanced and basic classes only go to 10. The game actually expects you'll dip into several different classes to help build your concept. A mechanic might take Tough, Smart, and a few Strong levels, for instance. There is no such thing as multiclassing penalties in d20 Modern.

Shadow Theory has chunks of OGL content, mostly the mechanics. The original content and fluff are Creative Commons Noncommercial Attribution Share-Alike, meaning you can pretty much do anything you want with it so long as you don't sell it and you credit me if you incorporate it into something you publish or whatnot. They are more clearly identified in the PDF.

I would love to know what you end up using and how it turns out, and whether or not something needs fixing. If you need any help reworking anything to fit, just PM me and I'll see if I can finaggle them around your campaign's rules.

SamBurke
2011-05-23, 03:29 PM
Thanks! I might ask for a few changes, but your stuff was a salvation to me. I got chosen as the GM about 4 days ago, and i have to do the first session this Saturday. GASP. Love the amount of monsters I can use there. Your stuff is GREAT.

Raum
2011-05-25, 04:52 PM
Here's the basic question: I need a modern-day sort of thing with a lot of choice, a lot of buildability, that's DnD based, preferably 3.5/Pathfinder/d20Modern. Anybody have suggestions?If you're willing to look beyond d20, give All Flesh Must be Eaten a look. It does everything you ask except be "DnD based". :)

If you're sure about the d20 variant as a requirement, take a look at True 20. Only three classes but very flexible.

In other words, "what Rose Dragon said". :)

DontEatRawHagis
2011-05-25, 09:27 PM
I'd end up using Spycraft 2.0. They have stat blocks for zombies in the book. Most problem I find with Zombie RPGs is that zombies are boring enemies unless you add in some human factions or Bio-Organic-Weapons. Look at Resident Evil and Left 4 Dead, they have special zombies that play by their own rules; tank is strong, lickers are smokers, so on so forth.

A good Zombie board game is Last Night on Earth.

UserClone
2011-05-27, 07:47 PM
I'll be the one guy to recommend taking a look at The Shotgun Diaries (http://jediwiker.livejournal.com/87542.html) by John Wick. You can get the PDF at RPGNow or IPR for five bucks.

Jude_H
2011-05-27, 08:33 PM
I'll be the one guy to recommend taking a look at The Shotgun Diaries (http://jediwiker.livejournal.com/87542.html) by John Wick. You can get the PDF at RPGNow or IPR for five bucks.
That game is amazing.

I kept typing it into my post, then trying to think of a less d20-like system, then failing, then pulling it out, then thinking about how fun and applicable it could be anyway, then typing it into my post, then trying to.think of a less d20-like --

Now that the focus is edging away from the rules-heavy class-type stuff, I definitely second that game, if only for a read-through.

Knaight
2011-05-28, 05:20 AM
I'll be the one guy to recommend taking a look at The Shotgun Diaries (http://jediwiker.livejournal.com/87542.html) by John Wick. You can get the PDF at RPGNow or IPR for five bucks.

This is such a wonderful game, and probably the best for the genre. That said, it doesn't resemble d20 at all, at any point, ever.

UserClone
2011-05-28, 10:06 AM
True, it is incredibly not D20-like, but it is very enjoyable, helps with pacing, and is learnable in about three minutes. I assumed the OP wanted something D20-like in order to avoid rules confusion, but the rules for SGD are easy, I thought it'd be a shame not to at least give it a mention.

SamBurke
2011-05-28, 10:40 AM
Could you explain the basis of the rules, then? Also, is it a free download etc?

UserClone
2011-05-28, 10:56 AM
You play survivors and build your character around an archetype (He-Man Survivor, The Professor Survivor, Gun Nut Survivor). The game has a real-time element called the Zombie Clock (sort of reminds me of the Dirty Dungeon which is wicked cool). The group of players are definitely playing against the ZM (Zombie Master) who's job it is is to set-up bad situations for them to deal with. Also there is a major mechanic in the game called Fear, which is also awesome and flows seamlessly into the game. Finally, the game is called The Shotgun Diaries for a specific in-game reason. ^_^

Knaight
2011-05-28, 03:57 PM
You play survivors and build your character around an archetype (He-Man Survivor, The Professor Survivor, Gun Nut Survivor).

One of these Archetypes is the helpless survivor, who is completely worthless and tasked with bringing trouble to the group through there stupidity. However, due to the function of safety in numbers in the rules, the group is mechanically obligated to save them.

This helpless survivor is pretty much the most fun character to play in any system.

UserClone
2011-05-28, 04:46 PM
Actually, the book suggests that the Helpless Survivor should be relegated to NPC status normally. The only time a player should play a Helpless Survivor is if they really, really want to bring nothing to the table. Literally all you are, mechanically speaking, is a bonus die for other people. You can't ever roll for anything. Which can indeed be awesome. :smalltongue:

Knaight
2011-05-28, 04:50 PM
Actually, the book suggests that the Helpless Survivor should be relegated to NPC status normally. The only time a player should play a Helpless Survivor is if they really, really want to bring nothing to the table. Literally all you are, mechanically speaking, is a bonus die for other people. You can't ever roll for anything. Which can indeed be awesome. :smalltongue:

See, everything but "relegated to NPC status normally" in this post sounds like an advertisement for the Helpless Survivor. Of course, the Helpless Survivor was my first introduction to Shotgun Diaries, in that the GM offered a bunch of archetypes and I grabbed it instantly because it looked fun, so I might just have really odd tastes.

gracypetro
2011-06-13, 12:09 AM
Spycraft is a lot like d20 Modern with plenty of explicit classes. Plenty of of its rules are genre-specific, but you might be able to hack it in to a post-apocalyptic game.