What Are Fraternities, Anyway?

[The Rose Dragon]

Apparently, there is this thing called "fraternities" in American colleges. My knowledge of them is limited to their naming convention apparently involving bringing together a number of Greek letters. But since we have no similar tradition, I don't quite understand how they work or what they do. What do people in fraternities do? Are they political? Academic? Do they worship demons?

[Eldan]

From what I've seen in American Sitcoms (my only source on all knowledge on American Academia), they are basically what's called student clubs around here.

Here, not every university has them. But when they exist, it basically works like this: they are a kind of club. You apply for membership when you enter your university/college. They have a variety of activities in theory. In practice, it mostly seems to involve parties. Good fraternities, however, have a lot of senior members, ex-students who studied at the same university and were in the same fraternity. These might now have important jobs in various industries or be in politics, so parties where they show up are good opportunities to mingle and make connections, which is often the main reason fraternities are joined.

I might be totally off, though.

[RPGuru1331]

They're a major holdout of idiocy and sexism on college campuses that primarily benefit their members by connecting them together so that the morons who got tanked instead of studying can give each other jobs.

[Reverent-One]

Do they worship demons?

According to some. :smallamused:


Here, not every university has them. But when they exist, it basically works like this: they are a kind of club. You apply for membership when you enter your university/college. They have a variety of activities in theory. In practice, it mostly seems to involve parties. Good fraternities, however, have a lot of senior members, ex-students who studied at the same university and were in the same fraternity. These might now have important jobs in various industries or be in politics, so parties where they show up are good opportunities to mingle and make connections, which is often the main reason fraternities are joined.

This is pretty accurate overall. Fraternities are club-like organizations, with several sub-types, there's social, professional, service, and honorary fraternities. Social fraternities are the bunch that people are most often talking about when they mention fraternities. Social frats are just that, a social organization, generally created with the intention to build character and improve it's members, though it's easy for such an organziation to turn into a group of guys who go out and get drunk together.

[Scarlet Knight]

Pretty acurate. May I suggest the movie Animal House for a comedic view of frats. Or just because it may be the funniest movie to come out in my lifetime.

[Kneenibble]

so that the morons who got tanked instead of studying can give each other jobs.

Ah yes, good. This is how I have always imagined them.

[snoopy13a]

They are social organizations for male students (their female counterparts are called sororities and there are a few co-ed fraternities). Most are national organizations who have local chapters at individual universities. The vast majority of local chapters have a house in which many members live.

The main goal of fraternities is to promote fellowship and friendship among its members. In additon, fraternities try to promote social life as well. Activities include parties, intramural sports, formals, road trips, BBQs, attending sports events, etc. Fraternities also do some little community service.

In addition to social fraternities there are also service fraternities and academic fraternities (e.g., Phi Beta Kappa) which are different and not commonly associated with the broader term.

[KuReshtin]

Some movie connections that touch on the subject:

Animal House (already mentioned)
Revenge of the Nerds
American Pie: Beta House
Old School

There are definitely a bunch more. Also, I won't vouch for the accuracy of the depiction of fraternities in those movies. :smallbiggrin:

[ZombyWoof]

Apparently, there is this thing called "fraternities" in American colleges. My knowledge of them is limited to their naming convention apparently involving bringing together a number of Greek letters. But since we have no similar tradition, I don't quite understand how they work or what they do. What do people in fraternities do? Are they political? Academic? Do they worship demons?
Fraternities are brotherhoods. Sororities are sisterhoods.

A fraternity is supposed to be political and academic at the same time. The idea is you join a fraternity and these folks are your brothers... you can get jobs from ex-members who have gone on to get high-level jobs. Basically it's a form of networking. In fact, it is a form of networking.

The negative stereotypes of frats come from a few comedic movies about them and the fact that whenever you get a bunch of guys or a bunch of girls in the same place without a significant number of people of the opposite gender, a lot of really, really stupid stuff occurs.

For literature on this effect, see: Lord of the Flies.

[thubby]

most of them are just some guys with common interests hanging out. its the ones you hear about that are the problem.

[Keld Denar]

I was in a social fraternity and an academic fraternity. The academic one, we didn't really do much. There were a couple of dinner events, but mostly it was a resume booster because you had to have and maintain a good GPA to get in.

The social one, however, was completely different. We did all kinds of stuff. They recruit only from engineering, the sciences, and architecture by choice, so it is a bit closer of a group than other, larger fraternities. I'm actually sitting in the airport to fly back and stay in the chapter house for the weekend while attending a friend's wedding. When I was active, we did tons of stuff, from just hanging around the house playing video games or studying to parties and other social events. I shared a lot of classes with brothers, and helped mentor new guys on academics and social activities.

I never thought I would join a fraternity. I didn't really look into it until my junior year of college, but when I did, I learned that it wasn't like the movies depict. It was good and fun and really awesome. I look forward to seeing my brothers this weekend.

[Mando Knight]

Are they political? Academic? Do they worship demons?
The short answer is yes. Long answers are detailed above.

In addition to providing the easiest vehicle for underage drinking in the US, they also may provide relatively cheap housing... the frats at my university have lower rates than any of the dorms, which is really attractive to any freshman or sophomore student, since the university has a rule that they have to live in campus-approved housing until they accrue 60 credit-hours.

[Eldan]

Which is probably another reason why fraternities are much less prominent here: no one's living on or near campus. In fact, our "campus" consists of a dozen or so buildings along a busy street.

[Pentachoron]

They're a major holdout of idiocy and sexism on college campuses that primarily benefit their members by connecting them together so that the morons who got tanked instead of studying can give each other jobs.

That must be why we consistently have a higher GPA as a group than the schools average. I know it has to be why we raise millions of dollars for charity every year.

I am an alumnus of one (Phi Delta Theta for the win), and in response to the original question, the basic idea has primarily been answered. I just want to add that the stereotype that is prevalent in the American mind of the drunken fratboy sleeping through his finals and hazing the pledges is by and large a thing of the past, really only being found at the occasional school chapter that hasn't gotten with the 21st century. The image persists primarily because of the few chapters that haven't gotten with the program, because of the portrayal in media, and partially just because haters gonna hate.

[Katana_Geldar]

In addition to providing the easiest vehicle for underage drinking in the US, they also may provide relatively cheap housing... the frats at my university have lower rates than any of the dorms, which is really attractive to any freshman or sophomore student, since the university has a rule that they have to live in campus-approved housing until they accrue 60 credit-hours.

Why?

And FTR, drinking age is 18 downunder so by the time most students get to uni they're legal.

I'd like to know why the Greek letters, as they seem pretentious and make little sense.

[DeadManSleeping]

That must be why we consistently have a higher GPA as a group than the schools average. I know it has to be why we raise millions of dollars for charity every year.

I am an alumnus of one (Phi Delta Theta for the win), and in response to the original question, the basic idea has primarily been answered. I just want to add that the stereotype that is prevalent in the American mind of the drunken fratboy sleeping through his finals and hazing the pledges is by and large a thing of the past, really only being found at the occasional school chapter that hasn't gotten with the 21st century. The image persists primarily because of the few chapters that haven't gotten with the program, because of the portrayal in media, and partially just because haters gonna hate.

Fraternities and sororities are still sufficiently rowdy that not a quarter of a school year goes by without news of some frat party resulting in deaths/injuries/police/fires/etc. I'm not saying it's a majority case, but there are still plenty of black spots on the Greek record.

Also, ZombyWoof makes an excellent point. Putting a bunch of young adults into the same space both socially and physically is going to get you some pretty wild times. Even with the good, fairly-well-behaved young adults.

Greek letters because the concept of fraternities is pretty old, from back when universities weren't the norm. Being in a fraternity then was actually a big elite social thing. They were pretentious because they really were rich, socially powerful, and such.

[Pentachoron]

I'd like to know why the Greek letters, as they seem pretentious and make little sense.

It's a traditional thing. The first Greek letter society "Phi Beta Kappa" So named because their motto, much like most organizations, was in greek and the first letters of the three words in the motto was Phi, Beta, and Kappa. Most fraternities have followed suit (i.e. it's usually the first letters of their motto.) It also is because every fraternity I know of was started so as to be an association of scholastic minded folk, and the ancient greeks have a reputation in America at least for being a particularly scholastically oriented culture.


Fraternities and sororities are still sufficiently rowdy that not a quarter of a school year goes by without news of some frat party resulting in deaths/injuries/police/fires/etc. I'm not saying it's a majority case, but there are still plenty of black spots on the Greek record.

Also, ZombyWoof makes an excellent point. Putting a bunch of young adults into the same space both socially and physically is going to get you some pretty wild times. Even with the good, fairly-well-behaved young adults.

Of course we're rowdy. We're adolescent men. It just turns out that people who aren't in greek organizations also party and make stupid decisions. We're just the only ones that get flak for it.

In fact, in university the people that I knew that were the biggest partiers and were the worst alcoholics were the non-greeks I knew.

[Katana_Geldar]

So, people like to think themselves clever then by using the Greek letters?

Right. :smallwink:

I'm not mocking, that sort of thing happens at all universities.

[Gaelbert]

Some movie connections that touch on the subject:

Animal House (already mentioned)
Revenge of the Nerds
American Pie: Beta House
Old School

There are definitely a bunch more. Also, I won't vouch for the accuracy of the depiction of fraternities in those movies. :smallbiggrin:

I'd like to note that Animal House is an informative and educational documentary about the college experience in America. It is cerebral yet accessible, I highly recommend it.

And I don't know what college you went to, but the frats at mine don't have a higher GPA than average. The professional and academic ones perhaps, but not the social ones. I don't think it's much lower than average, probably negligibly different.

[tyckspoon]

Of course we're rowdy. We're adolescent men. It just turns out that people who aren't in greek organizations also party and make stupid decisions. We're just the only ones that get flak for it.


That'd be because the fraternity is an organization that is at least nominally responsible for the things that happen in their buildings, and thus also an organization that can be assigned blame when something goes wrong and required to take steps to prevent it happening again. When an unaffiliated student/group of students throws a party and does something dumb- especially when it happens in off-campus buildings- there's not all that much the school can do about it, so it tends to get written up as 'college kids are dumb, more at 11' instead of "fraternity sponsors wild death-party, WTF supposedly responsible and character-building Greek organization."

[Tirian]

And I don't know what college you went to, but the frats at mine don't have a higher GPA than average. The professional and academic ones perhaps, but not the social ones. I don't think it's much lower than average, probably negligibly different.

A quick google tour verified my initial suspicion: fraternity GPA is marginally higher than the campus average, and the improvement in sorority GPA is significant. This stands to reason -- even if you had two days per week of stereotypical rowdy partying (and I think that'd be far out of the norm), you also have five days of networking with upperclassmen who are bound to you by an oath of fellowship who are happy to help you study and prepare for tests.

[Gaelbert]

A quick google tour verified my initial suspicion: fraternity GPA is marginally higher than the campus average, and the improvement in sorority GPA is significant. This stands to reason -- even if you had two days per week of stereotypical rowdy partying (and I think that'd be far out of the norm), you also have five days of networking with upperclassmen who are bound to you by an oath of fellowship who are happy to help you study and prepare for tests.

But are those academic and professional organizations, or the social ones?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I just want to add that the stereotype that is prevalent in the American mind of the drunken fratboy sleeping through his finals and hazing the pledges is by and large a thing of the past, really only being found at the occasional school chapter that hasn't gotten with the 21st century. The image persists primarily because of the few chapters that haven't gotten with the program, because of the portrayal in media, and partially just because haters gonna hate.

Actually, I'd say that the stereotype has plenty of truth in it, but that it's the fault of new pledges rather than the fraternities as a whole. My roommate's younger brother was a freshman at our college this year. He joined a fraternity and in his first semester he practically hit every frat boy stereotype--he drank a lot, had a 1.98 GPA at the end of the semester, partied every weekend, the works. The other freshman pledges were the same way. When his parents heard about all of this, they were understandably upset.

However, every other freshman jock in his circle of friends who wasn't in a fraternity was doing essentially the same thing. My roommate and I met some of the older brothers in the fraternity and they were as sober and responsible as any other upperclassman. The only difference was that the fraternity brothers had their shirts with fancy Greek letters on them so a passed-out drunk frat boy could be identified as such. So I think it's disingenuous to say that the stereotype is only perpetuated by a few niche fraternities that haven't "gotten with the program"--there are plenty of stereotypical frat boys, you just have to keep in mind that there are lots of other students with them behaving exactly the same way that simply have less exposure.

[Tirian]

But are those academic and professional organizations, or the social ones?

I can't be certain, but IME the "Greek system" is made up of social fraternities and sororities and not honors societies, even ones whose names are three greek letters.

[WalkingTarget]

A quick google tour verified my initial suspicion: fraternity GPA is marginally higher than the campus average, and the improvement in sorority GPA is significant. This stands to reason -- even if you had two days per week of stereotypical rowdy partying (and I think that'd be far out of the norm), you also have five days of networking with upperclassmen who are bound to you by an oath of fellowship who are happy to help you study and prepare for tests.

I wasn't in a frat, I never looked into joining a frat, but attended the school with the largest number of fraternity/sorority members in the world.

One thing I noted on the few occasions I actually worked with people in frats: they often had access to homework sets, old exams, etc. that were kept on file from past semesters/years. Even if they didn't necessarily have some particular upperclassmen (especially in the cases where the courses we were in at the time were the senior-level ones) helping them out, having the historical coursework "helped" in that they often had either similar or identical problems on them along with the answers.

That was 8 or more years ago, now. I'm not sure if it's necessarily the case that anybody couldn't find similar study aids on the internet now considering so much coursework is done and disseminated online anyway.

[Eldan]

The Americans are still missing one important part of fraternity culture, of course. The fencing. For the longest time, fencing lessons and being armed was a mandatory part of many fraternities around here. Sadly, few have fencers at all, these days...

[The Glyphstone]

If being in a fraternity let you carry a sword, that would be awesome.

[Eldan]

The ETH (my university) doesn't have any fraternities, but the University across the street still has a fencing hall, as far as I'm aware. l'll have to check if any of their fraternities still fence, but it's possible.

[toasty]

After having spent a year in University at a school without any real form of Frats (a few academic ones, but no frat houses on campus), but down the street from the US's #1 party school (University of Texas, Austin) pretty much the only thing I see frat people do is party. Which is funny, because some of those people have better grades than I do. :smallsigh:

Anyways, yeah, frats and college parties in general are just an excuse to get really drunk, in my experience. This might not be the case if the drinking age was lower, but I feel like it would still be pretty similar.

[Sinfonian]

As pretty much stated before, fraternities are groups of students bound together by common interest. Almost all fraternities, even if it's not part of their stated agenda, have certain commonalities among their members. One was previously mentioned that recruited solely from engineering, etc; I know a couple that tended to recruit Jewish men, and another that was primarily men proud of Southern heritage. I joined a fraternity that was chiefly comprised of musicians. Having a group with such an underlying link between its members, even before including the obligations and bonds of brotherhood, does a lot to ensure that the men involved are likely to work together as friends.

I have to say that despite the reputation that Greek life has, it really does do a good job of making better men (in most cases). Fraternities often have GPA requirements to hold internal offices, and others actually police their members to keep them from skipping classes. They often are a place where people take on responsibilities, through offices, taking on "little brothers" (guiding prospective members to actually becoming brothers), or even being sponsored for student government offices. They also tend to participate in philanthropic services or otherwise devote time to community service. Not to say these things couldn't or wouldn't be done outside of these groups, but fraternities do foster them.

Bad parts of fraternities are real problems though. Despite many efforts, hazing is a still a part of the process of joining with some level of it in almost every group I can recall. "Hell Week" does still exist for some people, as it did for my freshman roommate (I didn't see him at all the entire time and he came back unable to talk about it). It's also a place where institutionalized partying takes a good amount of members' time and encourages unhealthy behaviors, especially binge drinking. Also, fraternities are infamous (at least at the University of Florida) for controlling student government with an iron fist, by capitalizing on low turnout by using a concentrated voting bloc.

All that said, I enjoyed my time as a brother of my fraternity and wouldn't have traded the experience.

[Telonius]

The Americans are still missing one important part of fraternity culture, of course. The fencing. For the longest time, fencing lessons and being armed was a mandatory part of many fraternities around here. Sadly, few have fencers at all, these days...

Is that how your avatar got the scar? :smallbiggrin:

I once had dreams of founding a new fraternity, Delta Ampersand Delta. Sadly my university (Georgetown) only had a couple officially-recognized frats, with no traditional "Greek frat" culture allowed, and no prospect for it to get off the ground.

[The Rose Dragon]

Also, ampersand is not a Greek letter.

[Tirian]

One thing I noted on the few occasions I actually worked with people in frats: they often had access to homework sets, old exams, etc. that were kept on file from past semesters/years.

That's my experience as well. I think that it's easier to find past tests online for some courses than it used to be, but still not as common or simple as pulling a folder out of a filing cabinet.


[...] pretty much the only thing I see frat people do is party. Which is funny, because some of those people have better grades than I do. :smallsigh:

Which stands to reason. You may see them partying loudly every Friday and Saturday night, but you would probably be wrong to conclude that they're partying quietly the other five nights of the week.

And I certainly don't want to make the claim that all fraternities are indistinguishable. If you've got fourteen fraternities and five sororities on your campus (as I did at my pretty small university), you can either focus on the two Animal House fraternities that pulls people down or the eight excellent fraternities and four sororities that provide a beneficial experience to their brothers and sisters. The ones you don't notice are usually the ones that are doing the most good.

[Eldan]

Picture of what I meant:

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/images/30008716-r%20copy1.jpg, though those are Prussians.

By the way, do American Fraternities get uniforms?

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,742459,00.jpg

Edit: not the saluting part. But it's actually damn difficult to find a picture of those uniforms for some reason. Apparently, the university St. Gallen (our largest economy/law university) gets a lot of them: http://www.tradition-mit-zukunft.de/community/couleurinfo/ort,Sankt%20Gallen.html

[The Glyphstone]

I'd occasionally entertained the idea of trying to start a fraternity called Zeta Epsilon Rho Gamma. The closest I ever got was a Cafepress T-shirt design.

[Tirian]

By the way, do American Fraternities get uniforms?

The traditional "uniform" in my experience is a hooded letter sweatshirt.

http://somethinggreek.com/_content/images/G185Summer2HoodyNoPat.jpg

In addition, there are modest lapel pins that can be worn with any outfit.

[Nefarion Xid]

What? No mention of membership dues yet? Ah, well most of these organizations require dues between 500 and 1000 dollars per semester. And with a few notable exceptions, most fraternities and sororities are almost exclusively white (excepting service and academic organizations, of course). So, by and large... middle/upper-middle class white kids.

Having dated a senior sorority girl during her rush duties, I have some stories. They're not flattering. Now, I won't say they're indicative of all sororities, but they're hardly exclusive either.

[Eldan]

Ooh. That's pretty expensive. That would be about twice what you pay the school, actually, over here.

[Nefarion Xid]

Yeah, it's 20 to 25% of what you're already paying for tuition and fees for a semester at a public university in the states. Steep to be sure, and it doesn't do much to dispel the "Buying your friends" image.

[Telonius]

Also, ampersand is not a Greek letter.

Knowing this fact would have been an entry requirement. :smallbiggrin:

[Reverent-One]

Yeah, it's 20 to 25% of what you're already paying for tuition and fees for a semester at a public university in the states. Steep to be sure, and it doesn't do much to dispel the "Buying your friends" image.

No, but looking at what it gets you does. If your fraternity has a house, it gives you a place to hang out with your friends without having to deal with random people, as well as potentially room and board, it goes to keeping the organization you're a member of growing through recruitment and basic fees such an organization has to pay, it goes to conventions, philantrophy, scholarships, and just plain fun stuff (Formals and semi-formals, for example). It doesn't buy you friends, it lets you and your friends do a lot.

[Tirian]

It depends on the fraternity. And that money obviously doesn't go into a hole. I would assume for most of those fraternities, you're largely paying for room and board (if you're living in the house), the expense of the parties (both on-campus parties and off-campus formals), perhaps some charitable giving, and then whatever administrative costs you've got to pass up to the national organization.

And that's not even the most obvious means by which fraternities self-select their membership. (And that selection bias is doubled by the fact that a fraternity can only rush the sorts of people who would be interested in joining that fraternity.) I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature or both. People should generally be free to associate with like-minded people, and it's not like there aren't fraternities for upper middle class African Americans on nearly all campuses or any other well-populated segments of the student body. And if a fraternity lifestyle doesn't suit you, then there are clubs and special interest groups and sports teams that might be a better fit for you.

[Telonius]

No, but looking at what it gets you does. If your fraternity has a house, it gives you a place to hang out with your friends without having to deal with random people, as well as potentially room and board, it goes to keeping the organization you're a member of growing through recruitment and basic fees such an organization has to pay, it goes to conventions, philantrophy, scholarships, and just plain fun stuff (Formals and semi-formals, for example). It doesn't buy you friends, it lets you and your friends do a lot.

I see it as more of an ante. It doesn't exactly buy you friends, but I think you could arguably say that it buys the possibility of socializing a whole lot with a particular group of people. You're probably not going to regularly socialize with people in a frat, unless you're in the frat with them.

[Nefarion Xid]

I don't believe membership dues include the cost of room and board. At least it didn't for my then girlfriend. She paid over 700 dollars (or rather, her father the lawyer did) each semester for membership alone and she had an apartment. She also faced fines for speaking out of turn during meetings or showing up late. Though, it's possible that they just didn't like her. Hard to blame them in hindsight.

It's certainly not an environment I'd want my son or daughter to be in.

[Reverent-One]

I don't believe membership dues include the cost of room and board. At least it didn't for my then girlfriend. She paid over 700 dollars (or rather, her father the lawyer did) each semester for membership alone and she had an apartment. She also faced fines for speaking out of turn during meetings or showing up late. Though, it's possible that they just didn't like her. Hard to blame them in hindsight.

It's certainly not an environment I'd want my son or daughter to be in.

Hence why room and board was only one thing I mentioned (and I even said that was a maybe). And if she was in a large sorority, limiting things like side chatter in chapter meetings would be something they'd need to do in order to keep meetings from taking forever. Still, if she had a bad experience in greek life, that's a shame, but assuming that's the case everywhere and for everyone is a unfair stereotype.