[3.5] Immunity to attacks

[Bakkan]

How would one go about creating a character immune to attacks through buffs, items, and passive class features? Note that this is just a thought experiment and is not for a particular campaign or DM.

The Objective: to be able to ignore as many types of attacks as possible, and to reduce the chance that other types of attacks will affect you as much as possible.

For the purposes of this discussion, let us consider an attack to be a negative effect directed against you that requires an attack roll on the part of the attacker. For the moment, we are not concerned with, e.g., spells that do not require an attack roll.

Guidelines:

Avoid depending on limited-use items or effects such as Abrupt Jaunt
Avoid using defenses requiring actions (we want our defenses to actually allow us to do something)
No infinite loops
Assume the attacker rolls a natural 20 on his attack roll, i.e. we are looking for defenses other than AC
While ways to reduce the damage taken on a successful hit are useful, ways to completely avoid the damage are preferable


Assumed rulings:

If you have evasion, then Starmantle (BoED) allows you to completely avoid the damage an attack would have dealt if you make your Reflex save


The Starting Point

Have the following buffs/items/effects in place:

Starmantle or Starmantle cloak(BoED)
Ironguard (SC)
Friendly Fire (EoE)
Evasion from some source (e.g. Monk 2, Rogue 2, Impulse Boots (MoI))
A Reflex save of at least +13
The granted power of the Pride domain (Cleric 1, Catalogues of Enlightenment (PlH))


With these in place we have

Immunity to ranged attacks and ranged touch attacks (Friendly Fire)
Immunity to metal weapons (both magical and nonmagical)
Immunity to nonmagical weapons
A 99.75% chance to ignore the damage from any magical weapon (Starmantle + Evasion + Pride domain power means you need to roll two natural 1s in a row to take damage)


Note that Ironguard and Friendly Fire are mostly redundant and only serve to eliminate the 0.25% chance of taking damage from particular types of attacks, but I include them here for completeness' sake.

I think this is a good start, but there are still holes in the defenses that need to be filled. In particular, I don't believe any of the effects we currently have protect against natural weapons or melee touch attacks. What should we add to this to protect against those attacks?

[Hirax]

Throw in a class that has mettle (evasion for fort and will saves). Becoming a clay half-golem gives you some pretty broad immunities.

[Moriato]

Finding a way to get regeneration and immunity to non-lethal damage makes you pretty much immune to HP damage. It's not easy to do but there are a couple of ways if I remember right.

[Divide by Zero]

Google "Twice-Betrayer of Shar." I'm pretty sure they've gotten it immune to everything by now.

[cd4]

I can improve the numbers versus magical weapons, take 5 levels of Kensai and you can replace your reflex save with a Concentration check. This has no auto-fail on a natural 1.

[jvluso]

First since it's goal is so similar, The Emerald Legion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587)

Second, a DMM persist cleric with a dip in divine bard/druid can persist Delay Death and Beastland Ferocity to make damage on him irrelevant.

[Eldariel]

Good ol' Twice-Betrayer (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871166/New_Build_and_Challenge:_The_Twice-Betrayer_of_Shar) has a pretty nice shell. Anti-Magic Fields are a nice catch-all defense. Stick 10 levels of Dweomerkeeper in there for further Dispel-immunity (indeed, Supernatural AMF should make you, and it, immune to Disjunctions - this isn't actually a part of either Cheater or Twice-Betrayer but it works).

Basic HP damage immunity can be acquired through multiple means. I think we should gain Regeneration (Shapechange pref), immunity to non-lethal (Favor of the Martyr) and immunity to whatever penetrates our Regeneration (can't be Fire or Cold since those immunities can be pierced too). Then you can add other immunities as desired. Since Supernatural AMF makes us immune to dispels, you don't really need to make anything else Supernatural. Just casting 'em into the AMF works.

[Curmudgeon]

A 99.75% chance to ignore the damage from any magical weapon (Starmantle + Evasion + Pride domain power means you need to roll two natural 1s in a row to take damage)
No, that's not right; evasion and Starmantle don't interact. Here's what I wrote about this point in the "Simple Q&A" thread:

A 216 [correction]
Starmantle (both a spell and a cloak, from BoED) allows you to do this for nonmagical attacks, and with evasion to do so for magical weapon attacks. Starmantle does allow the character to avoid nonmagical weapon attacks. The answer for magical weapon attacks is incorrect, though.

Evasion

If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.
Starmantle does not change the characteristics of any attack; instead, it changes the wearer.
The starmantle renders the wearer impervious to nonmagical weapon attacks ...
Contact with the starmantle does not destroy magic weapons or missiles, but the starmantle’s wearer is entitled to a Reflex saving throw (DC 15) each time he is struck by such a weapon; success indicates that the wearer takes only half damage from the weapon (rounded down). Evasion applies when the attack deals half damage on a successful Reflex save; it does not apply when the character takes half damage on a successful Reflex save for some other reason.

[FMArthur]

Couldn't you just cast Resilient Sphere?

[subject42]

Good ol' Twice-Betrayer (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871166/New_Build_and_Challenge:_The_Twice-Betrayer_of_Shar) has a pretty nice shell. Anti-Magic Fields are a nice catch-all defense.

Assuming you could bust through the Antimagic fields, is there anything on that list of defenses that would hold off using Magic Jar to take over the body, thus nullifying all of the spells, and then just hurling yourself off of a cliff? Does protection from evil match the "similar ward" clause in Magic Jar?

[mootoall]

Get Person_Man in here for a neat trick. Favored of the Martyr + Some Other Spell (delay death? Maybe Shape Soulmeld: Rageclaws?) gets you complete HP irrelevancy.

[blackmage5242]

If you just care about being targeted for an attack just use this simple trick.

Just cast an Irresistible Persistent Sanctuary.

[candycorn]

DMM Persist Shapechange (Animal Domain) - Crystal Troll
Energy Immunity (Sonic)
DMM Persist Favor of the Martyr

Immune to damage.

Mind Blank - Immune to all mind affecting effects
Persist Spell (not DMM) Protection from Evil
Veil of Undeath - Immune to most things an undead is immune to.

If your cleric was Psychic Theurged with Ardent, add on Synchronicity + Anticipatory Strike + Schism to react to any effect that could bring down your buffs, and have a ring of spell-battle for the occasional disjunction.

Can't be possessed, immune to most all status effects, and only need to cast 1 spell at the start of a battle (Veil of Undeath).

[candycorn]

No, that's not right; evasion and Starmantle don't interact. Here's what I wrote about this point in the "Simple Q&A" thread:

Problem with that interpretation:


Half
The spell deals damage, and a successful saving throw halves the damage taken (round down).
By your logic, no Reflex Half spell would ever interact with the Starmantle Cloak. Because a successful save doesn't halve the damage dealt, only the damage taken.

It would be easier to say that Weapon attacks don't normally allow a save, so therefore cannot normally deal half damage on a successful save.

[Wings of Peace]

No mention of Troll-Blooded Warforged with Improved Resiliency yet? I'm shocked. :smalltongue:

[Eldariel]

Assuming you could bust through the Antimagic fields, is there anything on that list of defenses that would hold off using Magic Jar to take over the body, thus nullifying all of the spells, and then just hurling yourself off of a cliff? Does protection from evil match the "similar ward" clause in Magic Jar?

AMF is the catch-all for spells. Without it, there's few ways to be immune to every spell in the game (a bunch of Spell Immunities, perhaps, or Epic Ward). That said, we should be able to reach a point where we never fail the saves unless obscenely inflated. But no, I don't recall an easy way to be immune to Magic Jar specifically right off the bat.

[Greenish]

No mention of Troll-Blooded Warforged with Improved Resiliency yet? I'm shocked. :smalltongue:That's a couple of wasted feats, since you lose Regeneration by taking Imp. Resiliency.

Yeah, WotC caught the combo before printing the book, I'm shocked too.

[Person_Man]

Another simple one is Etherealness + Flyby Attack. Start and end your turn inside a solid object (like 50 feet below the ground) so that you can't be targeted by any attack and 99% of other effects. In between use any Standard Action (spell, power, maneuver, etc) to attack. Anyone can pull it off with spells, soulmelds, or templates. There's even a slightly more reasonable version your DM might actually allow you to use, where you're only ethereal when you move, so that you have to end your turn standing on the opposite side of wall or door.

There's also the Brood Keeper's Heart soulmeld from Dragon Magazine 350, pg 86. When bound to your Heart chakra you gain an ill defined Swarm subtype (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Swarm_Subtype), which grants immunity to critical hits, flanking, staggered, Trip, Bull Rush, Grapple, and any spell that targets a specific number of creatures (with the exception of mind-effecting and morale effects - which isn't that hard to get a separate immunity for).

[Eldariel]

Another simple one is Etherealness + Flyby Attack. Start and end your turn inside a solid object (like 50 feet below the ground) so that you can't be targeted by any attack and 99% of other effects. In between use any Standard Action (spell, power, maneuver, etc) to attack. Anyone can pull it off with spells, soulmelds, or templates. There's even a slightly more reasonable version your DM might actually allow you to use, where you're only ethereal when you move, so that you have to end your turn standing on the opposite side of wall or door.

Wouldn't Ghostform be more reasonable? Etherealness makes you fair game for all Ethereal creatures and Ethereal travelers. Incorporeality, on the other hand, makes you only vulnerable to things that can affect you inside the Wall and readied actions. And most Incorporeals lack means to sense each other inside the Walls which makes you relatively safe from even them.

[Person_Man]

Wouldn't Ghostform be more reasonable? Etherealness makes you fair game for all Ethereal creatures and Ethereal travelers. Incorporeality, on the other hand, makes you only vulnerable to things that can affect you inside the Wall and readied actions. And most Incorporeals lack means to sense each other inside the Walls which makes you relatively safe from even them.

Hmm, that would indeed be a superior idea.

[AmberVael]

Being incorporeal does have those advantages, but you can't nearly hide as far in objects while you're incorporeal- you have to remain adjacent to the outside, so you can never be all that far from a vulnerable surface. You're only one disintegrate away from being out in the open.

[Jack_Simth]

Finding a way to get regeneration and immunity to non-lethal damage makes you pretty much immune to HP damage. It's not easy to do but there are a couple of ways if I remember right.
You mean like combining the Regeneration spell with Favor of the Martyr or Beastland Ferocity?

[Eldariel]

Being incorporeal does have those advantages, but you can't nearly hide as far in objects while you're incorporeal- you have to remain adjacent to the outside, so you can never be all that far from a vulnerable surface. You're only one disintegrate away from being out in the open.

It is, however, quite efficient since given move speed, you can enter the wall object and then move inside it so enemy basically has to guess in which general area you are if they start disintegrating the Walls.

I find the fact that Ethereal people are vulnerable to Ethereal beings much more of a risk since if the enemy can cast Disintegrate, he's pretty close to Ethereal Jaunt which would make the fight 100% a fight.

[AmberVael]

Oh, I agree that being incorporeal is probably the better way to go, it just does have that one annoying little clause though. I felt compelled to point it out given that it wasn't mentioned.

[mootoall]

Is there any reason you can't be both etherial and incorporeal?

[Eldariel]

Is there any reason you can't be both etherial and incorporeal?

Uhh...good luck finding walls to go through on the Ethereal plane. Incorporeality would be exceedingly useless if you're already Ethereal unless you happen upon an Ethereal building or something in the location in which you went Ethereal. People going Ethereal would have no trouble finding you if you're Incorporeal on the Ethereal plane in a location without some special features. As always, more isn't always better.

Becoming Ethereal has very limited benefits with regards to the Material Plane since you can't affect targets on the Material Plane while on the Ethereal Plane through any simple means anyways. Many things extend from the Material Plane to the Ethereal Plane but not the other ways. You can observe the Material Plane and bypass obstacles through the Ethereal plane but unless you're capable of Manifesting (Manifested Ethereal creatures are mostly treated as Incorporeal creatures; Ghosts can do this), there's precious little you can actually do from the safety of the Ethereal plane.

[Forged Fury]

Sort of... ghosts can do it through manifestation, but it generally makes you more vulnerable rather than less.

With that said, it really depends on what it is that you're trying to protect yourself. If it's attacks on the Material Plane, ethereal is superior. If you're worried about Ethereal creatures, incorporeal would be better.

Strictly as a defense, ethereal is probably better than incorporeal, assuming you're most likely to be attacked by an inhabitant of the Material Plane, since there are a fairly limited number of things that can effect them (force spells, gaze attacks, abjurations, and transdimensional metamagic spells are about the limit, I think the specific weapon Ethereal Reaver may also work, I don't remember the details).

Note that Ethereal creatures have almost NO way of affecting the Material Plane, so being ethereal pretty much sucks if you want to attack/effect something.

Edit: Quasi-swordsaged

[Jack_Simth]

Is there any reason you can't be both etherial and incorporeal?None at all. It's actually useful if you're going to be fighting things on the ethereal plane (there are critters there, after all).

[Greenish]

Strictly as a defense, ethereal is probably better than incorporeal, assuming you're most likely to be attacked by an inhabitant of the Material Plane, since there are a fairly limited number of things that can effect them (force spells, gaze attacks, abjurations, and transdimensional metamagic spells are about the limit, I think the specific weapon Ethereal Reaver may also work, I don't remember the details).Not just Force spells, but all Force effects (such as arrows shot from a Force bow, or the weapons of an incarnate binding Crystal Crown to brow chakra).

[Glimbur]

Another simple one is Etherealness + Flyby Attack. Start and end your turn inside a solid object (like 50 feet below the ground) so that you can't be targeted by any attack and 99% of other effects. In between use any Standard Action (spell, power, maneuver, etc) to attack. Anyone can pull it off with spells, soulmelds, or templates. There's even a slightly more reasonable version your DM might actually allow you to use, where you're only ethereal when you move, so that you have to end your turn standing on the opposite side of wall or door.

The classic response to this is readied actions. That does tend to hose people who need full attacks, but people who can give you a bad day with just a standard action can still do so. It is advantageous, but it is not invulnerability.

[Forged Fury]

Not just Force spells, but all Force effects (such as arrows shot from a Force bow, or the weapons of an incarnate binding Crystal Crown to brow chakra).
Sorry, I was just listing the most common stuff. Yes, force effects as well, and that applies equally to incorporeal and ethereal opponenets.

Totally unrelated: I also figured I would point out an interesting clarification in the Rules Compendium that I think could probably be incorporated into a decent build: "If an incorporeal creature throws a thrown weapon or shoots a ranged weapon, the projectile becomes corporeal as soon as it's thrown or fired, and thus can affect a corporeal target normally (no miss chance)."

[invinible]

Between these two feats, your character would get 5 new immunities:

Celestial Ancestry [Angel subtype] (Dungeons and Dragons wiki)
Product of Infernal Dalliance [Tanar'ri subtype] (Dungeons and Dragons wiki)


Just note, they both must be taken at character creation and each allows you to take a [Fiend] type bonus feat plus nighter changes your character's primary type.

[myancey]

I made a build that is pretty wicked, hard to kill.

I was allowed flaws, so few extra feats.

Changeling race

Feats:
Toughness
Troll-blooded
Tireless (OA version is an ancestor feat, which we rule as separate from regional feats like troll-blooded.)


Classes:
4 Fighter (For feats)
4 Warshaper (Immune to crits, +4 to Str & Con, Fast Healing 2)

Items:
Use magic item creation rules to make a Constant Effect Favor of the Martyr item--it'll be crazy expensive, so I dropped the price by including an alignment restriction and made it 2/day. Constant effect is obviously better though.
And get Mantle of the Fiery Spirit for fire immunity.

[candycorn]

I made a build that is pretty wicked, hard to kill.

I was allowed flaws, so few extra feats.

Changeling race

Feats:
Toughness
Troll-blooded
Tireless (OA version is an ancestor feat, which we rule as separate from regional feats like troll-blooded.)


Classes:
4 Fighter (For feats)
4 Warshaper (Immune to crits, +4 to Str & Con, Fast Healing 2)

Items:
Use magic item creation rulesprice estimation guidelines to make a non-RAW Constant Effect Favor of the Martyr item--it'll be crazy expensive, so I dropped the price by including an alignment restriction and made it 2/day, also from the non-rule price estimation guidelines. Constant effect is obviously better though.
And get Mantle of the Fiery Spirit for fire immunity.

Fixed that. Custom Items is generally only used in the deepest darkest depths of Theoretical Optimization, and is usually frowned on even then.

[myancey]

Fixed that. Custom Items is generally only used in the deepest darkest depths of Theoretical Optimization, and is usually frowned on even then.

Fair enough. Yeah, in our group house rule items are entirely dependent on a yes or no from the DM after extensive study.

When I created this it was because I was the person the DM would beat the crud out of (because I'd just go unconscious), so I wanted an item that at least twice per day he wouldn't be able to knock me out. I hate spending half my turns on the ground.

But I did still limit mine to twice per day to avoid super crazy abuse.