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Cipher Stars

2011-05-20, 11:01 PM

The classic Anime Maid. I was sad when I found no classes for it, so I made one!
Status: Complete(?)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_gFMdXMBZNDQ/S_jT3p_FL3I/AAAAAAAAAsU/u90KUn1Gxpc/s1600/He+is+my+master+2.jpg
The Maid
"Yes master"
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Lesser Retrieve Object, Contract Bound, Acrobatics, Sense Danger, Prestidigitation. Master!, Inner Power.

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Bonus Feat, Perfect Posture
3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Lesser Sense Master. Locate Object

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4| Cooking Expertise

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Sense Master, Ambidexterity. Lesser Sleepless

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Uniform Synchronization, For my Master

8th|
+6/1|
+2|
+6|
+6| Sleepless

9th|
+6/1|
+3|
+6|
+6|Sense Master, Locate Object

10th|
+7/2|
+3|
+7|
+7|Bonus Feat, Retrieve Object, Evasion, Greater Prestidigitation.

11th|
+8/3|
+3|
+7|
+7|Maid's Knowledge, Telepathic Link

12th|
+9/4|
+4|
+8|
+8| Improved Uncanny Dodge,

13th|
+9/4|
+4|
+8|
+8|Improved Uniform Synchronization, More then a Maid

14th|
+10/5|
+4|
+9|
+9|Bonus Feat, Locate Object

15th|
+11/6/1|
+5|
+9|
+9|Greater Sense Master, Greater Danger Sense

16th|
+12/7/2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Greater Sleepless

17th|
+12/7/2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Master's Call, Masters Wish

18th|
+13/8/3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Bonus Feat, Greater Locate Object

19th|
+14/9/4|
+6|
+11|
+11|Reassuring Presence, Uniform synchronization greater

20th|
+15/10/5|
+6|
+12|
+12| Greater Retrieve Object, Master of Myself, Grand Prestidigitation. [/table]

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6+Int (x4 at 1st level)
Class Skills: Appraise, Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather, Heal, Information, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty), Knowledge (Local), and one other Knowledge relating to current master, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope.

Class Features:
Weapons and Armor:
The Maid is not proficient with any armor or shields, but they are proficient with all simple weapons, and one weapon of masters choice. This can be any logical thing from a Frying Pan (like a club) Rubber Chicken (Non lethal damage anyone?) to Katana, spear, lance, or shuriken but not something illogical like a Cat. A normally not-weapon item is treated as a normal weapon for the masters chosen item. (No penalties for "Improvised Weapon")

Contract Bound:
The Maid looses all class features when she is not employed and she cannot own any objects not given to her by a master (Past or otherwise) If she intentionally does anything against her master, or disobeys her master, she must seek Atonement before she can regain her class features, so long as shes employed. A Maid cannot quit. Her master has to die, or release her. If the master dies, she receives five negative levels though this cannot kill her and they recover normally. She receives 3 permanent ability damage to each score, and requires an Atonement spell from any caster capable of using it before she can make a new contract. at which time she regains 2 ability points though they cannot exceed the ability points lost at the time of her last masters death but does not regain lost levels if they became permanent.
Making the contract: To make a contract requires one full minute during which the maid sheds her previous attire and dons the uniform of her new master in a magical display with lots of glowing, and an equal amount of nudity. The Master in the mean time signs her name on a shining parchment that appears before her. Once complete, the Master has access to Atonement which can only be used on the Maid, but is usable as a free action, and she is now attached to the Maid by an absolute bond.
The master chooses to bestow on the Maid a single Exotic Weapon, this choice cannot be changed unless she releases the maid and redoes the contract. The Maid gains proficiency with the new weapon and can summon it easily with Retrieve Object no matter the size.
She cannot have an already existing master.
Cannot be master to more then one Maid.

The Maid Must wear her uniform. She looses her features if she takes them off unless she does so with the intent to change into another. (They can't wear the same uniform 24/7 now can they)
When in their Uniform, They gain their Wisdom modifier to AC, Wis +1 at fifth, +2 at Tenth, +4 at fifteenth, and +8 at twenty. These stack with Uniform Synchronization.
The Uniform Cannot be worn under armor in most classes (if they happen to be proficient in any) Unless the uniform designated by the Master is some sort of skintight suit.
Last Words:
The Master can make a final command, usually done when they expect to die or such.
If he does so, he looses his contract with the Maid but the maid is under an effect similar to a less painful Geas/Quest though it cannot be dispelled. The Maid is sickened each day she does not go about completing the last words, after a week, she starts gaining negative levels (until level 1) a month later, the negative levels start getting permanent one by one, day by day.
If she takes a new Master in the mean time, She only gets sickened, and must still complete the Last Words. The Last Words are now capable of being eliminated by a Break Enchantment or higher spell.
If she looses her contract through use of Last Words, She retains her Class Features for 24 hours. If she goes about completing the Last Words, she continues to retain her class features for another 24 hours if at least four Hours were dedicated to completing the Last Words. The maid instinctively knows if shes about to lose her Class Features, If she looses her self or something, she'd get a silent, mental warning she needs to get back on track or loose her features.

Retrieve Object:
As a free action, The Maid can recall an item or creature that the Maid or Master possesses permanently (The same item/creature being summoned, not creating a new one), Or an item not owned, which disappears in 5 minutes/ Maid level. Owned items can be don't matter for wealth restrictions as long as the Maid or Master owns it. Maid cannot conjure creatures the master doesn't own.
At first level, The Maid can call Small or lower objects and creatures. Such as a Tea Cup, a Dagger, A cat, ect. As its non-living, and Non-Sentient and not worth more then her masters total wealth divided by four.
At level Ten, The Maid can conjure any Medium or smaller object, such as a Chair, a Sword, or a boar, ect. and can conjure any item not worth her masters total wealth divided by two.
At level Twenty, The Maid can conjure any Huge or smaller object, such as a Table, a Balista, or a Frost Worm. She can now also conjure living things with an intelligence score of less then five. And can conjure at her masters full wealth.
Retrieve Object cannot conjure special or specific items. Such as a Magic sword, or a unique object like "Bob's favorite shirt" unless the unique/magic item is her masters or one of the Maids personal objects given to her by a master.
Note about retrieving creatures:
You can only conjure creatures you or your master owns. And even if your master owns it, you can not conjure a creature with more HD then you have Maid levels, and with more INT then 1/2 your INT score rounded down.

Acrobatics:
The Maid gains 1/2 her class levels to Jump, Tumble, Climb, and Balance checks.

Prestidigitation:
a first level maid can use Prestidigitation at will, only changes last until they fade normally or are messed up again.
Greater Prestidigitation:
a Maid of Tenth level can clean and color items in a 10 foot cube, rather then 1 foot.
They can also put larger items to order in a five foot cube, such as clean that kids mess of toys. Larger items returning to where they belong if it is in the area of effect, such as a toy box, while simple filth is just eliminated.
Grand Prestidigitation:
A Maid of twentieth level can clean and color items in a 50 foot cube, rather then 10 feet.
They can also put larger items to order in a twenty five foot cube, and the effect is now linked with the Maids Retrieve object ability, only a bit different. Items cleaned return to wherever they belong in a nice orderly, teleportational manner, even if the item in question is anywhere on the same plane in the Masters mansion because he left his favorite pen in his pocket by incident.

Master!:
The maid at level one gains the following:
Any time when the Maid is within 10 feet of the Master, she can, as an immediate action, take a hit for the master. She must be aware of the at tack and not flat footed. she can only save the Master this way.
She can also use an effect similar to taunt as a free action, rolling 1d20+Cha+ 1/2 maid levels vs a will save. If she succeeds, the subject becomes focused on the Maid but attacks otherwise normally.
Greater Master!
a maid of tenth level can cast Maid's Sanctuary on the Master as a movement equivalent action, at will. Only effects the Master. a Maid's Sanctuary is different from "Sanctuary" in that it renders the subject dislocated from reality. Area effects pass right through them, And the only way to attack them is directly, if they beat a will save equal to 15+ Maid level.
In edition, she can take hits for any ally.
Grand Master!
a maid of fifteenth level can cast "Cloud Mind, Mass" on all within a 30 feet radius of the designated area (which is within 400 feet + 50/maid level) The only effect this Cloud Mind can produce is render them incapable of perceiving the Master. The save for this is the same as Maid's Sanctuary and Both effects are unaffected by Spell resistance, and treat Spell Immunity as having a SR of 30.
In edition, She can use Maid's Sanctuary on any ally.

Sense Danger:
The Maid adds her Wisdom score to her Armor class, Reflex saves, and can sense when something of her master's is in danger, including herself and her master. Such as "Master's carriage".
You cannot be surprised, and you accurately know the danger enough to quickly react to it. Such as taking an arrow/bullet for your master (or trying to block or deflect it somehow) You don't know exactly what it is, or anything other then "Small projectile en route for the masters head"
At level fifteen, She knows the dangers more accurately. "Poisoned Arrow is being fired from the top right window of the overlooking building. Will fire in five...four...-"

Inner Power:
The Maid chooses her primary ability score. Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Replace references for wisdom, with chosen ability modifier.
In edition, she chooses her Inner Power:
Fighting:
increase her Attack progression by one step. (20/15/10/5) and gain martial maneuvers and stances. Initiator levels equal to Maid levels (+ any maneuver granting multiclass). Gain 1 new maneuver every two levels. every three levels, gain a maneuver of a higher rank. Gain 1 stance every four levels. They chose their own two pools to draw from. whether it be white raven or some homebrew accepted by DM. The maid is always considered to have all known maneuvers readied at all times. (Swift action all recovered anyway)
Magic:
gain 1/2 sorcerers spellcasting progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast spells as a tenth level sorcerer) She uses her Maid levels for Caster Levels. They gain a single animal in a manner similar to a familiar. Only it is not magical, its merely intelligent and obeys you. useful for a friend, but not much else. They're intelligent enough to write or perform almost human actions, such as lifting the seat before they relieve themselves in a civilized manner. this pet has a 6th sense as to where its master is as well as the maids master.
Vitality:
increase her hit dice by two steps. (d12) and she doesn't suffer from negative aging effects. She automatically stabilizes when dying, Immune to Poison and Disease, Negative levels (When master dies, you lose class features, therefor level loss from that still counts against you). And heal 1 point of ability damage a round, but not ability drain which merely heals over time at 1 point per day. She takes x1.5 effect from healing effects, and gains regeneration 5/Negative energy and fast healing 1 Similar to an Undead, she automatically succeeds on fortitude and constitution saves and is not subject to massive damage.
Skill:
Increase her skill point increase by two steps. (10) take any skill as a class skill and can reroll any failed skill check (once per check) a number of times equal to her chosen modifier. They also get +10 extra lump skill points to spend at first level and can Rank skills out to Level +5 rather then level +3. Every four levels, she gains Sudden Strike starting at 1d6, and increasing by 1 die each advancement.
Psionics:
gain 1/2 Psion manifestation progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd manifest powers as a tenth level Psion) She uses her Maid levels for Manifester levels. They gain a pet rock. the rock can speak telepathically to the Psionic Maid (but they can't return a comment telepathically unless they do so through a power), and is intelligent. Its aware of its surroundings, but is otherwise useless besides being a nice friend. Might want to be careful avoiding "Wtf" looks from people who see you talking to a rock. To avoid loosing Rocky, the P-Maid is always be aware of its position...
Mentalist:
gains Psychic Talent, and two Psychic skills for free, as well as 15 skill points to spend in psychic related skills. Every five levels she gains a new Psychic skill, and another 5 skillpoints for psychic related skills.
Healer:
Gain 1/2 Cleric spell progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast prayers as a tenth level cleric). She users her Maid levels as caster levels. When they heal, they add their 1/2 their class levels to healed damage. But Healer Maids tend to dislike fighting, they take -1/4 class levels to damaging effects they produce, be it spell or sword.
Demonic:
Fear Aura 1/4 maid levels/day. DC =Chosen mod +Maid levels. Land speed +30ft. Can use spells, powers, and take any feat with [evil] [Vile] [Corrupt or [taint] descriptors despite alignment or would be restrictions based on your moral standing. Gain fiendish subtype. Can be bound utterly by contracts, in return, Master's soul becomes yours at the fulfillment of this special contract. Every soul possessed grants permanent bonuses determined by the DM based on the characteristics of the individual souls.
Angelic:
Fly speed x2 land speed, gain wings of a chosen color. Gain the celestial subtype. Free use of Cure light wounds, Atonement, Consecrate, and Daylight. Can use Hallow once a day. At the end of your contracts, you leave your masters blessed. Giving them the ability to ignore an effect that would have killed them once a day. Must have been Maid to them for more then three months prior, however.
Invoker:
Every 2 levels the Maid gains one new Invocation from what ever source she wishes so long as its Least (Or comparable, under some re-name). Starting at 1 invocation at 1st, 1 at 2rd, 1 at 4th th and so on from there.
At eight level she can choose Least or Lesser.
at 16th she can choose least, lesser, or Greater invocations.
She can also gain a demi-familiar as if she had the Magic inner power.

Bonus Feats:
The Maid gains bonus feats every four levels. These feats are taken from the Fighter Bonus Feats, or General.

Perfect Posture:
The Maid gains 1/2 her class levels to Bluff, Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, and Move Silently checks, and can always retain perfect posture as long as she is conscious. Thus remaining perfectly still for hours if need be, unblinking, and not reacting to anything though she's still perfectly aware of it.

Sense Master:
The Maid can "Remote View" her master as many times as her class levels divided by four plus her wisdom modifier as long as her master wishes it. The master also gains use of this Remote Viewing to view the Maid at any time. the maid has no say in the matter. If she tries to resist somehow, it is considered going against the master.
Range is 1 mile per caster level at 3rd level, 4 miles per caster level at fifth, and anywhere on the same plane at level fifteen.

Locate Object:
The Maid can locate any object the Master desires within class level x500 feet. (To a range of 10,000 feet at level 20. or 1 mi. and 4719 feet.)

Cooking Expertise:
The Maid become adept at providing for her masters needs. She gains + 1/2 class levels to Craft: Cooking, Perform (cook), Craft: Alchemy, and Craft: Poisonmaking checks.
She can always take ten on such checks, and can improvise tools with no penalty (Though she could simply retrieve such tools)

Ambidexterity:
The maid can use either hand with equal proficiency. Halving any penalties for two handed actions.

Sleepless:
The Maid has trained herself to function on less sleep.
At 5th level, the Maid requires only four hours of sleep, but is considered to have a full eight hours of rest for all effects relating to it. Maids still require eight hours of sleep to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.
At 8th level, she needs only four hours of Meditation. She needs no sleep and is immune to mundane fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep effects. Maids still require eight hours of rest to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.
At 16th level, she needs no rest. She is immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep effects mundane or otherwise. Maids now only need four hours of meditation to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.

Uncanny Dodge:
The Maid gains the Uncanny Dodge feature as a Barbarian. She retains dex bonus when she would normally be denied it, Not including helplessness.
She gains Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 12.

Uniform Synchronization:
The Maid has become so adapt in wearing her Uniform, She gains a +1 to all physical actions while wearing it, and a +2 moral bonus on will saves. any penalties for a heavy/armored uniform (could happen) are eliminated. The Maid gains +10ft speed, +2 reflex, +2 Initiative, and gains a +2 bonus to Armor class.
At 13th level, The Maid gains a +5 moral bonus on Will saves and doubles her base speed. The Maid gains +4 Reflex, +4 Initiative, and +4 Armor Class.
At 19th level, The Maid gain +8 moral bonus on Will saves and triples her base speed. She gains +10 Reflex, +10 Initiative and +10 Armor Class.

For my Master:
The Maid gain her class levels to will saves that would cause her to directly go against her master.

Maids Knowledge:
The Maid knows the likes and dislikes of anyone she must serve. Will save applies if they don't wish this knowledge to be known
DC 10 +1/2 class level + Wis

Telepathic Link:
A Maid of eleventh level gains a telepathic link with her master that functions as long as they are on the same plane, and neither of them are blocked. The Master can choose not to allow the Maid to communicate with her. But the Maid has no choice if her master wishes to communicate.

More then a Maid:
The Maid gains +10 to Profession (Escort), and Diplomacy She now has more free will, and can question master's orders within reason without it considered as going against the master.

Master's Call:
The Maid can teleport to her masters side when he wishes it no matter the distance and through Dimensional Locks. Master can then Dismiss her to send her back to wherever she was if need be. She has no choice in the retrieval, but can choose if she wishes to go back.

Master's Wish:
The Maid can use Limited Wish as a supernatural ability a number of times per day equal to 1/4 her class levels + her Wisdom modifier. With no XP cost.
She can only use it to fulfill a wish of her master and not for personal means. Master's Wish is unaffected by Master of Myself and the Master cannot know of this ability. Masters may think it, but they cannot know it. If they do, the ability no longer functions.

Reassuring Presence:
The presence of the maid is enough to inspire others. The Master gains +5 to will saves to resist fear, break through enchantments, and cant be effected from spells such as "Nightmare" or any other spell/power to prevent restful sleep.
As long as the maid is within 5ft of the master.

Master of Myself:
The Maid can function without a Master, She treats herself as the master for all such effects.
If she still has a Master, she uses him as normal, and Cannot go against him as normal but she can act on her own will otherwise.
She no longer needs a Contract. Though not having a contract makes a few things useless, such as Master's Call.

Epic Progression:
{table=head]Level|Special

21st|-Greater Masters Call

22nd|Bonus Feat

23rd| Greatest Retrieve Object.

24th|Bonus Feat,

25th|Greater Masters Wish[/table]

Epic Features:

Masters Call, Greater:
The Maid can now, at will, teleport to her masters side and back to the destination she came from.

Greatest Retrieve Object:
The Maid can conjure objects as with the past retrieve objects. But of up to gargantuan size, or up to Small magic items.

Masters Wish, Greater:
As Masters Wish, But as Wish instead of Limited Wish.

Inner Power sorcerer spell progression:
{table=head]Level|Spells per Day|Spells Known
1st|0=5, 1=3|0=4, 1=2
3rd|0=6, 1=4|0=5. 1=2
5th|0=6, 1=5|0=5. 1=3
7th|0=6, 1=6, 2=3|0=6, 1=3. 2=1
9th|0=6, 1=6, 2=4|0=6, 1=4, 2=2
11th|0=6, 1=6, 2=5, 3=3|0=7. 1=4, 2=2. 3=1
13th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=4|0=7, 1=5, 2=3, 3=2
15th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=5, 4=3|0=8, 1=5, 2=3, 3=2, 4=1
17th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=6, 4=4|0=8, 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2
19th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=6, 4=5. 5=3|0=9, 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2, 5=1 [/table]

Zaydos

2011-05-20, 11:23 PM

PEACH is Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly; or that's how I learned it. There's something like 3 different definitions but they all come out to give some constructive criticism.

Looking over the class: First what balance point are you aiming at? Is it meant to be balanced against a fighter or a warblade or a wizard?

Moving on.

Skills: I would say add Knowledge (Local) to represent knowledge of where's the best place to procure X for the master, where is the good parts of town and where are the bad ones that you should warn the master about.

I would also say give them all Profession skills and not just Profession (Servant).

Finally I'd say probably reduce it to 6 skill points per level (same as factotum and every class except rogue), but I don't know the balance point.

Class features:

Contract Bound: Interesting; looks like a really fun character in a solo or duo campaign (with the other PC as your master in the latter case), but really bad as a balancing element. Would their master be a fellow PC (in which case how would loot division work) or would it be an NPC (which just causes a lot of problems). As a fluff restriction it's good, and necessary for the feel of playing a maid, but it functions poorly as a balancing method.

Retrieve Object: You need a way to stop them from selling this for their master and creating infinite wealth. Also your examples of small objects are all the Tiny size category I think. Your medium ones are small and medium (I think), and your Large range from Medium (full-plate) to huge (Heavy Balista).

Acrobatics: With this I'd definitely advice lowering their skill points. This is effectively +2 skill points per level which can be used to boost the score above normal max. Combined with Perfect Posture they effectively get 12+ Int Skill Points per level.

Sense Danger: Needs to define what knowing when you're in danger does more thoroughly. Do you know the source of the danger? Does it protect you from surprise? Etc.

Ambidexterity: As of 3.5 this feat no longer exists and is part of Two-Weapon Fighting.

For My Master: Rather strong coupled with an already good Will save. I'd suggest only giving them the bonus if it directly affects their master negatively.

Maid's Knowledge: Needs a save DC (probably 10 +1/2 class level + Cha).

More then a Maid: Give bonus to the skills not bonus ranks (also 12.5 skill points per level now). Not counting the Craft/Profession skills.

Edit: Also yellow kanji is hard to read.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-20, 11:33 PM

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 12:43 PM

No further comments from anyone...?

Anyway:

Edited the Maid. filled it out some more.

Pros: High attack, High HD, Good Will, Good Reflex. The abilities of a maid are... potent.

Cons:
Low AC
for most of a Maids life, they must be under a Master. (players shouldn't control their own master character. The Master should either be a DM built NPC, or a PC of another character.)
Masters tend to be weak, The Maid will likely have her hands full keeping her safe and happy all the while. But the status of the Master is up to the DM if its an NPC, or the other player character.... (I might have to make a "The Master" class...)

Morph Bark

2011-05-21, 01:18 PM

Note that General feats are a HUGE range of feats. All feat that don't require spellcasting are General feats.

Locate Object first states the range in feet and then says it increases to miles. (As read, the range is 700 miles at level 14.) Is this your intention? You could also make the increase in range more gradual, or otherwise make it (level squared)x5 ft, so that it'd be 2000 ft at level 20.

Also, in the table, don't like abilities in a manner like Sense Danger, Greater. Instead, just put Greater Sense Danger, otherwise the huge amount of commas make it look confusing. On that note, it might also be a good idea to bold the names of the abilities right before their descriptions, it makes it easier to read over them and find them again since there is a lot of text to go over.

Finally, what is a Maid's role mostly? Skillmonkey, damage dealer, tank?

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 01:27 PM

Note that General feats are a HUGE range of feats. All feat that don't require spellcasting are General feats. 1

Locate Object first states the range in feet and then says it increases to miles. (As read, the range is 700 miles at level 14.) Is this your intention? You could also make the increase in range more gradual, or otherwise make it (level squared)x5 ft, so that it'd be 2000 ft at level 20. 2

Also, in the table, don't like abilities in a manner like Sense Danger, Greater. Instead, just put Greater Sense Danger, otherwise the huge amount of commas make it look confusing. On that note, it might also be a good idea to bold the names of the abilities right before their descriptions, it makes it easier to read over them and find them again since there is a lot of text to go over. 3

Finally, what is a Maid's role mostly? Skillmonkey, damage dealer, tank? 4

1 Yea... I intended that as well.... They can pretty much get most feats as bonus feats. While not gaining any special feats, like Metamagics or Psionics.
EDIT:
This was meant to be the key point in the Diversity between Maids specializing in different methods.

2 Sounds a bit short. Yes I intended that, short, then it gets larger. But now I'm more aware of the fact that it is a sudden, large increase... How about x10 rather then x5.

3 Yea, I was gonna get around to that eventually, I just finished the Epic Progression a while ago, so that was next on the list.

4 What ever their master needs. Anime Maids are typically Tank like, while being Skill monkeys.
Of course I'm mainly thinking about "Mai Otome" when I think Anime-Maid.

Welknair

2011-05-21, 03:56 PM

Wow. At first I was thinking that this was intended as an NPC class... This thing is VERY powerful. Seriously. Just to start, Full BAB, d12 HD, two good saves, 6+Int skills. What. I know of no class that has that good of a base. Then they get a bonus feat every other level drawn from Fighter Bonus Feats or general feats? As mentioned, General Feats encompass the vast majority of feats out there. And this class is now far beyond the Fighter just after considering that they get all things the fighter does (The bonus feats) in addition to a better HD, an additional good save and access to a much wider variety of feats to choose from. Then as they progress they gain the ability to add 1/2 their class level to... pretty much everything? You already gave them 6+Int, doing all that is a bit overkill. One or two might be understandable, but the sheer quantity is a bit much. Next, how many class features do they get that grant bonuses to will saves for themselves or others? In addition to already having a good Will? And they can summon most anything they'd ever need, including idiot mooks? Add on top of all of that the fact that they can never be surprised and gain Uncanny Dodge so now they simply cannot be ambushed. Nor can their master. Or his furniture. Then they gain the ability to cast Limited Wish 5+Wis times per day with no XP cost? MY WORD WHAT.

As for the Epic Progression: Do you realize that you aren't supposed to introduce additional class features, right? It's just progressing existing numeric effects (such as all of your +1/2 class level ones) and giving bonus feats.

Neat idea, but could use a bit of a power drop.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 04:21 PM

Then they gain the ability to cast Limited Wish 5+Wis times per day with no XP cost? MY WORD WHAT.
.

You mean this.

Master's Wish:
The Maid can use Limited Wish as a supernatural ability a number of times per day equal to 1/4 her class levels + her Wisdom modifier. With no XP cost.
She can only use it to fulfill a wish of her master and not for personal means. Unaffected by the Master of Myself feature and the Master cannot know of this ability. They may think it, but they cannot know it. If they do, the ability no longer functions.

Yes. They may well be overpowered.
But in your reply, You gave no mention to the fact that they can't act on their own for the longest time.

Welknair

2011-05-21, 04:25 PM

Yes. They may well be overpowered.
But in your reply, You gave no mention to the fact that they can't act on their own for the longest time.

One word: Cohort.

Best. Cohort. EVER.

Edit: And in general, limitations about who controls who are by no means good mitigating factors. Just because someone else is steering doesn't make it any less powerful.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 04:28 PM

One word: Cohort. Best. Cohort. EVER.

The Maid, as the best cohort....

Che... We never use Leadership, so the whole Cohort thing didn't come to mind....

Ah. But I did mention somewhere in there that Player characters shouldn't control the master...

So you can't be the master and lug around a Maid cohort either...

Welknair

2011-05-21, 04:35 PM

Ah. But I did mention somewhere in there that Player characters shouldn't control the master...

So you can't be the master and lug around a Maid cohort either...

"Shouldn't" and "Can't" are very different words. If you were to introduce an NPC like this, the players would want a Cohort one. Why can't players be Masters? What magical force prevents them? If it's possible, they'll find a way. And if it's not, they'll annoy you until you let them.

More importantly:
1. Players aren't meant to get Maids as Cohorts
2. No Player would willing play one of these unless another Player was the Master. And even then, they likely wouldn't given all the humiliating things they would have to do.
3. And if it wasn't a PC being the Master, then it would have to be an NPC. Why is the NPC allowing their prized Maid to go off adventuring?

Result: Maids would only ever be used as NPCs which the PCs would try endlessly to get on their side after seeing how powerful they are.

The control limitation does not make them less powerful, it makes them less usable.

Note: I ran into a somewhat similar problem with Badass. I was planning on giving it to a particular NPC (Depicted as my avatar) and told my players of this. They all immediately wanted to start taking levels in it. Except then it was due to the cool factor, not sheer power. You simply cannot allow an NPC do something that the PCs can't.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 04:43 PM

"Shouldn't" and "Can't" are very different words. If you were to introduce an NPC like this, the players would want a Cohort one. Why can't players be Masters? What magical force prevents them?

More importantly:
1. Players aren't meant to get Maids as Cohorts
2. No Player would willing play one of these unless another Player was the Master. And even then, they likely wouldn't given all the humiliating things they would have to do.
3. And if it wasn't a PC being the Master, then it would have to be an NPC. Why is the NPC allowing their prized Maid to go off adventuring?

Result: Maids would only ever be used as NPCs which the PCs would try endlessly to get on their side after seeing how powerful they are.

The control limitation does not make them less powerful, it makes them less usable.

Being the Maid would be an adventure in and of itself. Revolving around life among nobility, Grand parties in which the Master shows off their Maids, which are rare commodities.

I've already had two friends I've shown this to say they would be one at the next opportunity. Multiclassing as Ninja for one, Witch for another.

You really need an Anime Otaku's knowledge of the Maid to get the correct feel for this class.

Anyway. I changed it. (though I kept the previous version in a spoiler...)

EDIT:
And there is a magical power. Its DM's LAW.
If a DM restricts a class, then its restricted. Their law supersedes Core if they wish it.

Welknair

2011-05-21, 04:49 PM

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 05:02 PM

Slight nitpick: There is no "Alchemy" skill. It's Craft (Alchemy). And that incorporates making poison.

So would all the players be Maids? Because aside from that I don't know how it would be worked into a storyline.

I thought Craft Alchemy was what I put? And there is a craft Poisonmaking skill, I read it in many places...

I think I should change the hd again to 8 rather then six.
They don't have that great of armor, as they have to wear their uniform and have no armor proficiencies.

In addition, they should add their wisdom modifier to AC when in Uniform,

No.
One would be a maid, one a Master, one a family head (and the master?), Other nobles or like positions who would work as a team of the same family to work to gain power in the city/state/country.
That would work fine in a Drow storyline for example...

EDIT.
oh. and for your epic progression comment.
The features gained are just continuations of previous abilities.

Morph Bark

2011-05-21, 06:13 PM

You really need an Anime Otaku's knowledge of the Maid to get the correct feel for this class.

There is also a vast difference between various kinds of maids in different anime. If you are trying to do all of them at once, I advise you not to. Instead, break them up into several different paths for options for the maid, so you can have ninja maids, magic maids, bodyguard maids and maids really good at cooking (and alchemy).

Welknair

2011-05-21, 06:58 PM

No.
One would be a maid, one a Master, one a family head (and the master?), Other nobles or like positions who would work as a team of the same family to work to gain power in the city/state/country.
That would work fine in a Drow storyline for example...

EDIT.
oh. and for your epic progression comment.
The features gained are just continuations of previous abilities.

Didn't you say that players weren't supposed to be Masters?

Epic Progression features are only features that have a set period before they improve. Like SA or Rages.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-21, 06:59 PM

There is also a vast difference between various kinds of maids in different anime. If you are trying to do all of them at once, I advise you not to. Instead, break them up into several different paths for options for the maid, so you can have ninja maids, magic maids, bodyguard maids and maids really good at cooking (and alchemy).

Thats where the bonus feats came in. They allowed customization. and how you spent your skill points is up to you.

In our game, several players are already making characters for this while also allowing Gesalt for further specialization.
I'm using a Maid/Sorcerer taking mostly death-necromancy type abilities (As well as many homebrewed Bone based spells)
for an awesome Gothic-voodoo-Maid character!

Edit:

No, Players can't be their own masters. ie; controlling the NPC who is the Maids master. or Being the master and controlling a Maid.

Kurtmuran

2011-05-21, 11:58 PM

really really really really LIKE IT i searching for 3 months in the web for something like this i starting to tink in create the class but you do that i want to use for my dungeon if you dont mean of curse

Zaydos

2011-05-22, 12:05 AM

2 questions.

1) Why BAB as a cleric, rogue, bard, etc 1 level higher? Just seemed odd.

2) How did you get a big blank space between the status and picture?

jojolagger

2011-05-22, 01:40 AM

They can't wear the same uniform 24/7 now can they

The Greatest source of complain from me.I have a character who hasn't changed since the game began. And his clothes are consistently the cleanest in the group.

Would it be unreasonable to give them at will prestidigitation? It changes the taste of stuff, cleans, can light fires, can do sewing, ect.
The spell lacks combat use, and most of it's uses would easily seem appropriate for a maid.

Dralnu

2011-05-22, 02:14 AM

Looks good. Customizable, as an anime maid should be. The bonus general feats is very strong, as is the Limited Wish which is potentially broken, but otherwise the abilities are pretty tame.

Nitpicks:
- the 3/4 +1 BAB thing looks weird and unnecessary

Maids Knowledge:
The Maid knows the likes and dislikes of anyone she must serve. Will save applies if they don't wish this knowledge to be known DC 10 +1/2 class level + Wis

I don't get this. Is this like anti-bardic knowledge or something? What does it do?

And yes, they need at-will prestidigitation for quick touch-ups.

DracoDei

2011-05-22, 11:15 AM

Maybe make the Prestidigitation that people are asking for "Self and uniform only" and "Cleaning Only". Might extend it to any PERSONAL equipment (so not something that someone, even your master just hands you for a bit).

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 02:20 PM

Would it be unreasonable to give them at will prestidigitation? It changes the taste of stuff, cleans, can light fires, can do sewing, ect.
The spell lacks combat use, and most of it's uses would easily seem appropriate for a maid.

I. Love. That. Idea.

And am thoroughly ashamed I did not think of it.

really really really really LIKE IT i searching for 3 months in the web for something like this i starting to tink in create the class but you do that i want to use for my dungeon if you dont mean of curse

Glad you like it. Its here for the using.

\
Nitpicks:
- the 3/4 +1 BAB thing looks weird and unnecessary\

Naw. I think its perfect.

Welknair

2011-05-22, 02:30 PM

Naw. I think its perfect.

...

But that's not how it works! All classes are either full, 1/2, or 3/4. No exceptions. If you wish to make an exception, you'd better have a good reason as to why. Besides that, it simply is not done.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 02:49 PM

...

But that's not how it works! All classes are either full, 1/2, or 3/4. No exceptions. If you wish to make an exception, you'd better have a good reason as to why. Besides that, it simply is not done.

Wait what?
Ah. the +1 you said, missed that. What do you mean by +1? *Looks*

Prime32

2011-05-22, 02:57 PM

Wait what?
Ah. the +1 you said, missed that. What do you mean by +1? *Looks*The BAB does not follow a standard progression of 3/4 your level, round down.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 03:05 PM

The BAB does not follow a standard progression of 3/4 your level, round down.

I don't see anything thats wrong with it... its a simple .._(dotdotdash) progression... I'm not "Rounding Down" I'm scaling it with the level, but replacing a dot with a dash (Ie; 33...66....)

Hazzardevil

2011-05-22, 03:08 PM

There should be an ACF of this so that theres a version for Sebastion.
He is, afterall, one hell of a butler.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 03:14 PM

There should be an ACF of this so that theres a version for Sebastion.
He is, afterall, one hell of a butler.

ACF?
I'm pretty new to this. So... whats ACF?
Sebastian would probably be lv 25... and a Master Vampire...
I dunno. What do you recommend for his build?

DracoDei

2011-05-22, 03:55 PM

ACF?
I'm pretty new to this. So... whats ACF?
Sebastian would probably be lv 25... and a Master Vampire...
I dunno. What do you recommend for his build?
ACF = Alternate Class Feature
I believe the Sabastion in question is a Demon, not a Vampire. The episodes I saw of the Anime included no blood-drinking, mentions of coolness due to lack of sunlight vulnerability, or any such thing. Alternate vampires possible, but he certainly didn't hop, so that is out (not that I know much about hopping vampires...).

Zaydos

2011-05-22, 04:46 PM

ACF = Alternate Class Feature
I believe the Sabastion in question is a Demon, not a Vampire. The episodes I saw of the Anime included no blood-drinking, mentions of coolness due to lack of sunlight vulnerability, or any such thing. Alternate vampires possible, but he certainly didn't hop, so that is out (not that I know much about hopping vampires...).

He is very definitely a demon not a vampire in both the original anime (haven't watched the second one), and the manga. There has been to the best of my memory no vampires in either.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 05:30 PM

... The Master isn't weak in sunlight. In fact the Master shares little of the vampires weaknesses... Besides blood drain. but it never mentions any dependencies on it.

Vampires are demons depending on the mythology you use...

I think its the best fit, as he isn't really some chaotic slaughter everyone, red skinned, tentacled "demon".

Anyway. Comments on my "prestidigitation" edition to The Maid?

Veyr

2011-05-22, 06:20 PM

This class, basically, has three types of features:

Bonuses, both scaling and static. Mostly to skills, these are just +numbers to various stats. In some cases quite powerful (Diplomacy for sure), but mostly pretty tame. Little to no combat application for most of them.

Bonus feats, from a very wide array. Useful, but mostly for dipping. Bonus feats basically "don't count" as class features; they're padding and filler, at best (yes, this means the Fighter basically doesn't count as a class; it's really terrible design).

Spell-like abilities, mostly limited and utilitarian, many of which can only be used directly on or for the Master. Retrieve Item is decent, assuming you can get good items, but there are no rules for that. Most of the rest are pretty much fluff-only: teleporting back to the master, communicate with the master, etc. Find Item but only for things the master wants. Etc.

And then she gets Limited Wish multiple times per day for absolutely free. That's... kind of preposterous.

Basically, until you get Limited Wish, this class is... it has a fair amount of relatively high numbers thanks to the exceptionally good chassis and various bonuses, and a lot of extra feats to customize her with, but almost nothing in the way of combat-relevant class features. This makes for a fairly weak, and most of all a rather boring class, in my opinion.

It needs unique and combat-relevant class features. Something like spellcasting, or initiating, or something. The Factotum (Dungeonscape) and Chameleon (Races of Destiny or here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b)) might provide some excellent inspiration, I think — they both do the "jack of all trades, master of none" schtick very well, and are unique and fun classes.

Also, I personally detest falling mechanics in 3.5, and I think yours is an especially problematic version. I think it's just begging for a jerk-ass DM to ruin your character, while it puts more player-friendly DMs in a very difficult position: the master has to be extremely conforming to the needs of the plot and cannot have any real personlity of his or her own without destroying the character. I mean, what if the master betrays you? The master is expected to be a mortal, rather than a god, and therefore should have more variance than the unchanging force of X incarnate that are gods.

DracoDei

2011-05-22, 06:54 PM

Skill Points: 4+Int (x4 at 1st level)
This MIGHT be a bit light for the number of class skills, but I suppose it allows for specialization and uniqueness over power. In addition, I am not the best judge of class skill count to skillpoint ratios.

Class Skills: Appraise, Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty), Knowledge (Local), Listen, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope.
This may be my lack of ranks in Knowledge(Maid-based Anime), but I would think that "Move Silently" might be useful for cleaning up around one's master after they fall asleep at their desk while working extra-long hours.

Class Features:
Weapons and Armor:
The Maid is not proficient with any armor or shields, but they are proficient with all simple weapons, and one exotic weapon of Master's Choice.
Sometimes the Maid must differ to alternate means to solve one of the Master's problems.
This may be my relative lack of familiarity with the genre (I read some manga about a maid falling in love with her master in England, plus watched a few episodes of Black Butler at DragonCon) but, I would allow the OPTION to substitute allowing one type of object, with a specific number of hands (IE if they chose "Frying Pan" they have to select if they will be using one that qualifies as a light, one handed, or 2 handed weapon), and treat said objects as proficient weapons, rather than improvised weapons. Perhaps even grant Weapon Focus in that case since the damage and crit-range/multiplier will be sub-optimal in such cases, especially compared to most exotic weapons.

Contract Bound:
The Maid looses all class features when she is not employed and she cannot own any objects not given to her by a master (Past or otherwise) If she intentionally does anything against her master, or disobeys her master, she must seek Atonement before she can regain her class features, so long as shes employed. A Maid cannot quite.
Should be "quit".

Her master has to die, or release her. If the master dies, she receives five negative levels though this cannot kill her and they recover normally. She receives 1d4 permanent ability damage to each score, and requires an Atonement spell from any caster capable of using it before she can make a new contract. at which time she regains 1d4 (rolled again) ability points though they cannot exceed the ability points lost at the time of her last masters death
This is the worst of both worlds of having to roll again and having to keep track of how much was lost. Consider just saying they get it all back, although I guess that is what Restoration and Restoration, Greater are for.

but does not regain lost levels if they became permanent.
<SNIP>
Retrieve Object:
As a free action, The Maid can recall an item that the Maid or Master possesses permanently (The same item being summoned), Or an item not owned, which disappears in 5 minutes/level.
Clarify if this is per total class levels, maid levels (most probable), ECL, or what.

At first level, The Maid can call Tiny objects. Such as a Tea Cup, a Dagger, A Tie, ect. Can conjure any small object as long as its non-living, and Non-Sentient and not worth more then her masters total wealth divided by four
At level Ten, The Maid can conjure any Medium or smaller object, such as a Chair, a Sword, or a nice dress, ect. and can conjure any item not worth her masters total wealth divided by two.
At level Twenty, The Maid can conjure any Huge or smaller object, such as a Table, a Balista, a full suit of Plate Armor. She can now also conjure living things with an intelligence score of less then five. And can conjure at her masters full wealth.
I smell cheese if Outsiders or other spell-casting creatures can be conjured, especially since most campaigns don't have a way of putting a GP value on sentient creatures readily available.
I also think they will often conjure various heavy objects to drop on enemies heads whenever they can get above them, but I heartily approve of that, regardless of the balance issues... an over-riding damage limit regardless of weight to keep things under control could MAYBE be nice, since I believe a solid marble/granite (whichever is denser) statue of a halfling MIGHT be a bit cheesy at level 10 at will from even a 10 foot height. Someone check the numbers if they haven't already?

Retrieve Object cannot conjure special or specific items. Such as a Magic sword, or a unique object like "Bob's favorite shirt" unless the unique item is her masters or one of the Maids personal objects given to her by a master.
I would clarify this to say that conjuring specific magical items IS allowed.

Acrobatics:
The Maid gains 1/2 her class levels to Jump, Tumble, Climb, and Balance checks.

Prestidigitation:
a first level maid can use Prestidigitation at will to produce only the following effects:
can color, clean, or soil

I would get rid of the "soil" option unless you have a specific reason to include it. Seems to me rather like giving a druid a "Clear-cut and Strip Mine" spell...

items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material and light or snuff candles or similar lighting. Unlike prestidigitation the spell, Maid's effects last until changed. Changing the color of your masters tie for him, for example, would last until you change it again or its otherwise died
Dyed

or stained. Warming and Chilling effects however, fade as normal warmed or chilled items.
Greater Prestidigitation:
a Maid of Tenth level can clean or Soil items in a 10 foot cube, rather then 1 foot.
They can also clean larger items in a five foot cube, such as clean that kids mess of toys. Large items return to where they belong if it is in the area of effect, such as a toy box.
This doesn't add up between the two paragraphs, since any object that coudl fit in a 5' cube would also fit in a 10' one, and the vast majority of children's toys would individually fit in a 5' cube. Perhaps you mean "Tidy up, with movement limited to within a 5' cube each round."? That wouldn't be precise enough in all likelihood, but it would serve as a good start to which other sentences could be added.

Grand Prestidigitation:
A Maid of twentieth level can clean or soil items in a 50 foot cube, rather then 10 feet.
They can also clean larger items in a twenty five foot cube, and the effect is now linked with the Maids Retrieve object ability, only a bit different. Items cleaned return to wherever they belong in a nice orderly, teleportational manner, even if the item in question is x miles away in the Masters mansion because he left his favorite pen in his pocket by incident.
Same issue as my previous statement... I would make X equal at least 10xMaid's level since we ARE talking 20th level here.

Going to stop here, at least for the moment. Might or might not add more later.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 07:21 PM

And then she gets Limited Wish multiple times per day for absolutely free. That's... kind of preposterous.

Basically, until you get Limited Wish, this class is... it has a fair amount of relatively high numbers thanks to the exceptionally good chassis and various bonuses, and a lot of extra feats to customize her with, but almost nothing in the way of combat-relevant class features. This makes for a fairly weak, and most of all a rather boring class, in my opinion.

It needs unique and combat-relevant class features. Something like spellcasting, or initiating, or something. The Factotum (Dungeonscape) and Chameleon (Races of Destiny or here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b)) might provide some excellent inspiration, I think — they both do the "jack of all trades, master of none" schtick very well, and are unique and fun classes.

Also, I personally detest falling mechanics in 3.5, and I think yours is an especially problematic version. I think it's just begging for a jerk-ass DM to ruin your character, while it puts more player-friendly DMs in a very difficult position: the master has to be extremely conforming to the needs of the plot and cannot have any real personlity of his or her own without destroying the character. I mean, what if the master betrays you? The master is expected to be a mortal, rather than a god, and therefore should have more variance than the unchanging force of X incarnate that are gods.

The wish is also only for the master, however, It can be used when the Maid is protecting her master by using Wish to mimic spells. Such as Fireball, Baleful Polymorph and the like.
Which gets better... at level 21. when they can use them more effectively and for themselves (Though at a More-Limited-Wish).

This MIGHT be a bit light for the number of class skills, but I suppose it allows for specialization and uniqueness over power. In addition, I am not the best judge of class skill count to skillpoint ratios.

More skill points?

This may be my lack of ranks in Knowledge(Maid-based Anime), but I would think that "Move Silently" might be useful for cleaning up around one's master after they fall asleep at their desk while working extra-long hours.

Yes, thats great. added.

This may be my relative lack of familiarity with the genre (I read some manga about a maid falling in love with her master in England, plus watched a few episodes of Black Butler at DragonCon) but, I would allow the OPTION to substitute allowing one type of object, with a specific number of hands (IE if they chose "Frying Pan" they have to select if they will be using one that qualifies as a light, one handed, or 2 handed weapon), and treat said objects as proficient weapons, rather than improvised weapons. Perhaps even grant Weapon Focus in that case since the damage and crit-range/multiplier will be sub-optimal in such cases, especially compared to most exotic weapons.

I don't get this.... *flew over head*

Should be "quit".

Ah yes, I saw that earlier, never got around to fixing.

This is the worst of both worlds of having to roll again and having to keep track of how much was lost. Consider just saying they get it all back, although I guess that is what Restoration and Restoration, Greater are for.

I intended for permanent, severe damage for Death of Master (Unless by old age), because lets face it, PC's would just keep killing the guys... or at least do nothing if they're in danger. The Maid is supposed to be protective of the master.... not uncaringly watch as they die.

Clarify if this is per total class levels, maid levels (most probable), ECL, or what.

Yea Maid levels... *edits*

I smell cheese if Outsiders or other spell-casting creatures can be conjured, especially since most campaigns don't have a way of putting a GP value on sentient creatures readily available.

So you think they should be allowed to conjure living/sentient creatures??

I also think they will often conjure various heavy objects to drop on enemies heads whenever they can get above them, but I heartily approve of that, regardless of the balance issues... an over-riding damage limit regardless of weight to keep things under control could MAYBE be nice, since I believe a solid marble/granite (whichever is denser) statue of a halfling MIGHT be a bit cheesy at level 10 at will from even a 10 foot height. Someone check the numbers if they haven't already?

Well, a 200lb stone deals... 20d6 for falling 50 feet I believe... from memory... faded memory..
but yes, I intended stuff like that. (Such as the classic anime frying pan falling on a characters head)

I would clarify this to say that conjuring specific magical items IS allowed.

Specific magic items owned by the Maid or The Master at least, yes. I intended that. forgot to make it more obvious that Magic AND unique items can be conjured.

I would get rid of the "soil" option unless you have a specific reason to include it. Seems to me rather like giving a druid a "Clear-cut and Strip Mine" spell...

I had a reason... but I forgot it. *removes*

Dyed

Yea... didn't notice that typo. thanx

This doesn't add up between the two paragraphs, since any object that coudl fit in a 5' cube would also fit in a 10' one, and the vast majority of children's toys would individually fit in a 5' cube. Perhaps you mean "Tidy up, with movement limited to within a 5' cube each round."? That wouldn't be precise enough in all likelihood, but it would serve as a good start to which other sentences could be added.

I'm confused... They just clean a 5' or 10' foot cubes worth of filth/messes...

Same issue as my previous statement... I would make X equal at least 10xMaid's level since we ARE talking 20th level here.

the x was just a filler for what ever distance you filled in to fit with the example... No actual number was intended to be there. Unless you think there should be.

Going to stop here, at least for the moment. Might or might not add more later.

Veyr

2011-05-22, 07:50 PM

The wish is also only for the master, however, It can be used when the Maid is protecting her master by using Wish to mimic spells. Such as Fireball, Baleful Polymorph and the like.
Yeah, but Master's Wish is gained at 17th. Before that, the class literally doesn't offer anything but fairly (but not extremely) high numbers. This is not likely to make for a powerful or interesting character.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 08:11 PM

Yeah, but Master's Wish is gained at 17th. Before that, the class literally doesn't offer anything but fairly (but not extremely) high numbers. This is not likely to make for a powerful or interesting character.

It sounds to me your thinking only in stats and numbers, meanwhile I'm thinking in the roleplaying or "Fluff".

If your not interested in playing a protective Maid who fulfills her masters every wish, then turn around and go look at the druid or something.

This character is a fluff character... and its powerful in its specific role.

Also: I expected someone to whine about having Autohypnosis as a class skill... but cool. no one did.

I'm adding... Heal to the Maid class skills. (Classic scenario, the maid takes care of the bedridden master)

Zaydos

2011-05-22, 08:34 PM

Like DracoDei suggested they should probably have Move Silently; personally I'd add Hide to it to. Maid's are supposed to be able to be very unobtrusive when they wish. Having it as a class skill means they can choose to be good at it if they wish, but if that doesn't fit their concept they don't need to take it.

DracoDei

2011-05-22, 08:38 PM

Replying inside my quotes makes it much harder for me to answer you since the forums no longer allow nested quotes. Please try to use the method I use where I close the quotes at the first place I want to respond to by typing [/QUOTE], perhaps hit return twice, then copy-paste the opening command (so that it will link back to the post I am responding to properly, and then grab all THAT and copy paste it everywhere I intend to put a response. This will reduce the amount of work people have to put in to carry on a conversation with you, and thus increase the depth of the PEACH you get.

Items cleaned return to wherever they belong in a nice orderly, teleportational manner, even if the item in question is anywhere on the same plane in the Masters mansion because he left his favorite pen in his pocket by incident.

More skill points?
I spent a small paragraph being as precise as I could about my views on that.

In brief: Maybe change it to a 6+Int base, maybe leave it at a 4+Int base like you currently have it.

I don't get this.... *flew over head*
Let me try an example:
A master is, after extensive preparation, entering into a contract with two maids...

The first one he knows would enjoy scaring people who try to INSIST on seeing him when she knows very well he would not wish to see them... he presents her with a +1 Shocking Flaming Dire-Scythe... all very well and good with your current rules. Perhaps with the exception of the small fact that I may have just made up Dire-Scyths, but as they would just be double weapons with each head having the properties damage and critical properties of a scythe for a character 1 size class smaller, I doubt that makes much difference for the purposes of our example.

The other maid has a much more shy personality, and while he knows he can rely on her to protect his life, he knows she would want to avoid displaying a weapon unless absolutely necessary, preferring to keep to her duties cooking and serving food... he presents her with a specially crafted frying pan, designed to be easy to wield (IE a masterwork weapon, despite still being an improvised weapon) and also enchanted to +1 with the Shocking and Flaming properties (as an added bonus, the Flaming portion of the enchantment has an alternative mode of activation suitable for cooking, even when there is not a stove with available room on top in the vicinity). It is large enough that she would need two hands to wield it well. With the option I proposed she could elect to forever afterward treat two-handed frying-pans as simple weapons, rather than improvised weapons.

I intended for permanent, severe damage for Death of Master (Unless by old age), because lets face it, PC's would just keep killing the guys... or at least do nothing if they're in danger. The Maid is supposed to be protective of the master.... not uncaringly watch as they die.
Ok, that makes sense then...

If you don't want Restoration/Restoration, Greater to be able to counter this, you need to be more specific in your wording.

I actually think there is room for improvement here with a "Dying Words" clause where-in the master may specify a final mission. The penalties wouldn't kick in unless the mission was abandoned (see Geas/Quest for a starting point on what constitutes abandoning a mission?), and completing the mission would avoid them all together.
Examples might include:
"Take care of my son."
"Deliver the letter in my breast-pocket to the King." (A critical secret message that the master gave his life to safe-guard, and which will prevent a senseless and bloody war from starting)
"Go, be free, find what YOU desire in life and claim it!" (Might be overused between PCs).

Also, if you didn't already, make sure you are clear on the benefits of revivification magic used on a master.

So you think they should be allowed to conjure living/sentient creatures??
Living? Almost certainly.
Sentient? Probably safest to limit it to bonded animals such as a Paladin's warhorse or a wizard's familiar.

I'm confused... They just clean a 5' or 10' foot cubes worth of filth/messes...
I think that at least twice you specify "...or larger objects in..." and then proceed to specify a SMALLER cube.

EDIT to respond to other critiquer's posts:

Yeah, but Master's Wish is gained at 17th. Before that, the class literally doesn't offer anything but fairly (but not extremely) high numbers. This is not likely to make for a powerful or interesting character.
Powerful? Perhaps not.
Interesting? This class just OOZES flavor from every pore. I like it.

<SNIP>personally I'd add Hide to it to. Maid's are supposed to be able to be very unobtrusive when they wish. Having it as a class skill means they can choose to be good at it if they wish, but if that doesn't fit their concept they don't need to take it.
Yeah, I thought of that, but it seems that a Teleport to Master's Side When Called ability would fit my ideas of how that would be used better, and I believe the class already has such an ability (I didn't reach it in my review, but I think other's mentioned it). Then again, I guess you could do both. On interesting option would be to make NEITHER a class skill, but give a bonus of say... class level (or even twice that), but say that these bonuses ONLY apply against their master and his/her ALLIES. Enemies can detect them at the non-bonus level ~= 1d20+Dex. Mod. (use the same roll for the two groups).

Cipher Stars

2011-05-22, 09:00 PM

Replying inside my quotes makes it much harder for me to answer you since the forums no longer allow nested quotes. Please try to use the method I use where I close the quotes at the first place I want to respond to by typing , perhaps hit return twice, then copy-paste the opening command (so that it will link back to the post I am responding to properly, and then grab all THAT and copy paste it everywhere I intend to put a response. This will reduce the amount of work people have to put in to carry on a conversation with you, and thus increase the depth of the PEACH you get.
[/QUOTE]

That sounds complicated. I'll just go QUOTE /QUOTE and copy-paste before I write a reply.

I spent a small paragraph being as precise as I could about my views on that.

In brief: Maybe change it to a 6+Int base, maybe leave it at a 4+Int base like you currently have it.

I already changed that.

Let me try an example:
A master is, after extensive preparation, entering into a contract with two maids...

The first one he knows would enjoy scaring people who try to INSIST on seeing him when she knows very well he would not wish to see them... he presents her with a +1 Shocking Flaming Dire-Scythe... all very well and good with your current rules. Perhaps with the exception of the small fact that I may have just made up Dire-Scyths, but as they would just be double weapons with each head having the properties damage and critical properties of a scythe for a character 1 size class smaller, I doubt that makes much difference for the purposes of our example.

The other maid has a much more shy personality, and while he knows he can rely on her to protect his life, he knows she would want to avoid displaying a weapon unless absolutely necessary, preferring to keep to her duties cooking and serving food... he presents her with a specially crafted frying pan, designed to be easy to wield (IE a masterwork weapon, despite still being an improvised weapon) and also enchanted to +1 with the Shocking and Flaming properties (as an added bonus, the Flaming portion of the enchantment has an alternative mode of activation suitable for cooking, even when there is not a stove with available room on top in the vicinity). It is large enough that she would need two hands to wield it well. With the option I proposed she could elect to forever afterward treat two-handed frying-pans as simple weapons, rather than improvised weapons.

So how about instead of "Or one exotic weapon the master specifies" I change it to "and the Maid gets what ever the master specifies, usable as a weapon (rather then improvised weapon, such as a Frying Pan, or something more standard, such as a Long Sword or Katana)

I actually think there is room for improvement here with a "Dying Words" clause where-in the master may specify a final mission. The penalties wouldn't kick in unless the mission was abandoned (see Geas/Quest for a starting point on what constitutes abandoning a mission?), and completing the mission would avoid them all together.
Examples might include:
"Take care of my son."
"Deliver the letter in my breast-pocket to the King." (A critical secret message that the master gave his life to safe-guard, and which will prevent a senseless and bloody war from starting)

Well, maids must obey their master anyway or lose their class features...

"Go, be free, find what YOU desire in life and claim it!" (Might be overused between PCs).

That'd just set them free, thus loosing class features until they get a new contract.
Though a "Do as you wish" command would be problematic... but such a master wouldn't seek out a Maid now would they?

Living? Almost certainly.
Sentient? Probably safest to limit it to bonded animals such as a Paladin's warhorse or a wizard's familiar.

So they can summon their masters familiars or special creatures... Alright, that sounds good.
But if they can summon living creatures otherwise, they'd just summon Dire Wolves or Doppelgangars or young dragons.... Unless it as well is limited to masters pets only.. but some masters are quite fond of exotic pets...

But I guess the Master himself would be a customization item. Some masters would have more unique pets for the maid to summon while others would maybe deal in explosives, or another magic items.

I think that at least twice you specify "...or larger objects in..." and then proceed to specify a SMALLER cube.

Ugh.. still confused... sorry, Its probably the naturally-use to be blonde I guess.

Interesting? This class just OOZES flavor from every pore. I like it.

Thank you. I'm shocked that I take so much pleasure in people liking something I make...

Yeah, I thought of that, but it seems that a Teleport to Master's Side When Called ability would fit my ideas of how that would be used better, and I believe the class already has such an ability (I didn't reach it in my review, but I think other's mentioned it). Then again, I guess you could do both. On interesting option would be to make NEITHER a class skill, but give a bonus of say... class level (or even twice that), but say that these bonuses ONLY apply against their master and his/her ALLIES. Enemies can detect them at the non-bonus level ~= 1d20+Dex. Mod. (use the same roll for the two groups).

personally I'd add Hide to it to. Maid's are supposed to be able to be very unobtrusive when they wish. Having it as a class skill means they can choose to be good at it if they wish, but if that doesn't fit their concept they don't need to take it.

Agreed.

DracoDei

2011-05-22, 09:35 PM

That sounds complicated. I'll just go QUOTE /QUOTE and copy-paste before I write a reply.

I already changed that.

So how about instead of "Or one exotic weapon the master specifies" I change it to "and the Maid gets what ever the master specifies, usable as a weapon (rather then improvised weapon, such as a Frying Pan, or something more standard, such as a Long Sword or Katana)
Based on what I understand of the genre (mostly from what I picked up here and there of the "Maid" RPG, which, if you haven't heard of, you should investigate post-haste), I believe that keeping exotic weapons a strong option is a good idea. Basically, anything from a single type of improvised weapon to an exotic weapon and all stops at Simple (at least give weapon focus to the unfortunate Maid whose master picks "Paring Knife"), and Martial in between.

Well, maids must obey their master anyway or lose their class features...
Yes, but this lets them count as following the Master despite the mere technicality of him being dead. It is a semi-common trope in fiction actually...

That'd just set them free, thus loosing class features until they get a new contract.
But avoiding ability damage and level drain? I would at least allow a twist that would let them keep their class features until they escaped from the BBEG's castle that the master was killed while trying (along with the rest of the party) to infiltrate.

Though a "Do as you wish" command would be problematic... but such a master wouldn't seek out a Maid now would they?
If you mean that as a seperate case from "Last Words" then that is very much true.

So they can summon their masters familiars or special creatures... Alright, that sounds good.

But if they can summon living creatures otherwise, they'd just summon Dire Wolves or Doppelgangars or young dragons.... Unless it as well is limited to masters pets only.. but some masters are quite fond of exotic pets...
Anything with INT of 1 or 2 that is not bonded would not be allowed (with exceptions for pet crickets carefully written to disallow monstrous spiders and such)... or maybe it is sufficient to say that any such creature must be owned by the master. D&D has a habit I do not approve of of giving ALL Magical Beasts Intelligence scores of 3+ whether they need it or not...

But I guess the Master himself would be a customization item. Some masters would have more unique pets for the maid to summon while others would maybe deal in explosives, or another magic items.
Interesting point!

Ugh.. still confused... sorry, Its probably the naturally-use to be blonde I guess.
Ok.... ONE LAST TIME! (If you ask again I shall not be responding, since it will have proved more aggravation than it is worth).
As one example (probably one of only two in the class) :

a Maid of Tenth level can clean items in a 10 foot cube, rather then 1 foot.
They can also clean larger items in a five foot cube, such as clean that kids mess of toys. Large items return to where they belong if it is in the area of effect, such as a toy box.
The second paragraph here is poorly written, since the objects in question are each much smaller than a 5' cube, let alone a 10' cube. You probably need to differentiate between "Clean" (as in remove dirt etc from),
and "Tidy" (As in put items larger than mud particles where they go, including throwing away "trash", as opposed to making "dirt" simply disappear.)
Thank you. I'm shocked that I take so much pleasure in people liking something I make...
Hopefully you will continue to experience that feeling for a long time to come... and then learn to be proud of your work based on what you KNOW its quality is, regardless of the whims of fancy of various people (perhaps even your OWN whims of fancy).

Veyr

2011-05-22, 09:55 PM

It sounds to me your thinking only in stats and numbers, meanwhile I'm thinking in the roleplaying or "Fluff".

If your not interested in playing a protective Maid who fulfills her masters every wish, then turn around and go look at the druid or something.

This character is a fluff character...
Both count. Yes, the fluff is there, but at least my concept of a well-designed class is one that has both interesting mechanics and interesting fluff. I'm... not interested in the fluff, so I won't comment on it, but the mechanics I am trying to help with.

and its powerful in its specific role.
Err... OK, insofar as it is fairly capable of doing what the master chooses, perhaps (though a particularly loyal wizard or something would be moreso; that's not a great balance point though), but mechanically, it doesn't really have a role, and that matters.

Mostly, this is just an exceptionally good chassis, rather than a complete class, IMO.

Powerful? Perhaps not.
Interesting? This class just OOZES flavor from every pore. I like it.
My bad there; I should have said mechanically interesting. The class offers very little to a player in terms of unique actions that it is capable of taking, since it only gets feats and numerical bonuses for the most part, at least until the Limited Wish comes into play.

jojolagger

2011-05-23, 02:36 AM

Anyway. Comments on my "prestidigitation" edition to The Maid?

Have you seen Fun with Prestidigitation (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707), or are you just running off the spell description?
I think It should be closer to full, as just about every option could see use on a maid.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 09:51 AM

Alright. Prestidigitation is now full.

I'll see what I can do to make them better in combat besides having 3/4 bab, 12 will, and 12 reflex and plenty of bonus feats.
What would you recommend? Higher bab? More bonus feats? (Like the Previous Version, found in the bottom spoiler)
Or some more combat oriented class features? (Besides being able to wield say... large flaming frying pants of terror)

One things for sure, I'm ~not~ giving them any armor proficiency. They've got their uniform and thats that. (however, at a higher level the Maid can wear any suit the master designates as their uniform. including something like Plate Armor if they have the proficiency (Through Feats or something) )

Yes, I got it this time, thanks.

Prime32

2011-05-23, 09:57 AM

I'll see what I can do to make them better in combat besides having 3/4 bab, 12 will, and 12 reflex and plenty of bonus feats.
What would you recommend? Higher bab? More bonus feats? (Like the Previous Version, found in the bottom spoiler)
Or some more combat oriented class features? (Besides being able to wield say... large flaming frying pants of terror)More numbers are rarely the answer. Give them the ability to take hits for their master, or slow down/debuff enemies (so others can get away) or something.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 10:03 AM

More numbers are rarely the answer. Give them the ability to take hits for their master, or slow down/debuff enemies (so others can get away) or something.

Ah! Like Taunting, being able to cast Sanctuary on the Master. I kinda like the idea. or an effect like "Cloud Mind" but for the master.
And the take hits for master as well...

Yep. Add'n those.

Veyr

2011-05-23, 10:04 AM

I'll see what I can do to make them better in combat besides having 3/4 bab, 12 will, and 12 reflex and plenty of bonus feats.
What would you recommend? Higher bab? More bonus feats? (Like the Previous Version, found in the bottom spoiler)
These are exactly what it doesn't need. It has plenty of high numbers, and as you say, plenty of bonus feats. It needs things that are both unique, and useful in regular play. It currently has things that are useful in regular play, but aren't unique (some high numbers, lots of bonus feats), and things that are unique, but aren't useful in regular play (because they're so restricted to only really be useful to the master, and mostly literally for cleaning things up/delivering/retrieving things, etc., not useful for when the master sends you on a regular quest for the most part)

Or some more combat oriented class features? (Besides being able to wield say... large flaming frying pants of terror)
This, although probably not items. The reason why the Monk or Soulknife are terrible classes is because their signature class features (Unarmed Strike, Mind Blade) are easily replicated/replaced by items (weapons, in those cases). (there are exceptions here; the Artificer from Eberron Campaign Setting is an extremely powerful item-based class: you probably do not want to make the maid that powerful, since the Artificer is generally imbalanced).

Again, I do recommend the Factotum (Dungeonscape) and Chameleon (Races of Destiny and a Wizards' web page that I linked to earlier) for ideas: they seem pretty fitting with the eclectic nature of your concept, from what I understand. What you're looking for are unique, special abilities that a player can expect to use every day of their career for the furthering of whatever quests they undertake. Whether that's spells, martial maneuvers, or something completely new depends on what you want for the class and its flavor.

One things for sure, I'm ~not~ giving them any armor proficiency. They've got their uniform and thats that. (however, at a higher level the Maid can wear any suit the master designates as their uniform. including something like Plate Armor if they have the proficiency (Through Feats or something) )
This is reasonable enough, but they need class features to make up for it. Note that Ability-to-AC is not usually enough: the Monk's defenses are rather poor, despite the Wis-to-AC feature. On the other hand, the Wizard cannot have armor at all even if he gets proficiency (usually), but his defenses are too good because of the power of his spells (Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Contingency, etc.).

Prime32

2011-05-23, 10:10 AM

Ah! Like Taunting, being able to cast Sanctuary on the Master. I kinda like the idea. or an effect like "Cloud Mind" but for the master.
And the take hits for master as well...

Yep. Add'n those.I wouldn't tie everything to their master. If their abilities target enemies then they can be useful in more situations.

Debihuman

2011-05-23, 10:14 AM

Sleepless needs a little cleaning up. It think you need a better progression for how much sleep is needed for spellcasting. You also list the requirements out of order.

Sleepless: The Maid has trained herself to function on less sleep.

At 5th level, the Maid requires only four hours of sleep, but is considered to have a full eight hours of rest for all effects relating it. Maids still require eight hours of sleep to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.

At 8th level, she needs only four hours of Meditation. She needs no sleep and is immune to mundane fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep effects. Maids still require eight hours of rest to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.

Ditto for Uniform Synchronization: What does she get at which level because your paragraph breaks make it difficult to read and understand.

Uniform Synchronization: The Maid has become so adapt in wearing her Uniform.

At 7th level, she gains a +1 to all physical actions while wearing it, and a +2 moral bonus on Will saves. Any penalties for a heavy/armored uniform (if any) are eliminated. The Maid gains +10 feet to her base speed, +2 Reflex, +2 Initiative, and gains a +2 bonus to Armor class.

Increases to +4 at level 13 with a +5 will and her speed is doubled, +4 reflex, +4 initiative, and +4 Armor class.
Increases again to +8, +10, speed is tripped at nineteenth level.

What exactly increases to +4 at 13th level? You have to spell these things out clearly. Ditto for the 19th level. Is this what you meant?

At 13th level, The Maid gains a +5 moral bonus on Will saves and doubles her base speed. The Maid gains +4 Reflex, +4 Initiative, and +4 Armor Class.

At 19th level, The Maid gain +8 moral bonus on Will saves and triples her base speed. She gains +10 Reflex, +10 Initiative and +10 Armor Class.

Master's Wish could also use some some proofreading and editing. What is unaffected by Master of Myself?

Too many uses of her makes it difficult to identify when you are referring to The Maid and when you are referring to the Master:

If The Maid still has a Master, The Maid uses her master’s wealth as normal, and cannot go against her master as normal. However, she can act on her own will as well as the will of her master.

That last sentence is not very clear: Do you mean she can act on her own will in addition to acting on the will of her master or instead of acting on her master's will? It could her a bit schizophrenic to have to do both if they are different decisions.

Debby

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 02:23 PM

Morph Bark

2011-05-23, 02:49 PM

Edited.

Should I change back the BAB to 15/10/5 and have the attack increase to 20/15/10/5?
I thought someone might abuse it by taking the second Inner power as spellcaster, to be a spellcaster with full BAB.

It's not very abusable if you only have it work for this class. Plus, spellcasters with full BAB are hardly overpowered. Duskblade and Hexblade for example. :smalltongue:

Veyr

2011-05-23, 03:08 PM

I'd specify that the Caster Level/Manifester Level for those options are equal to her full level, even if she can only cast spells/manifest powers of up to half the usual. Having lower-than-full Caster Level never worked out well and was an idea basically abandoned by WotC after the PHB.

Also, the spellcasting or manifesting options, even at half-progression, is massively more powerful than the BAB, HD, or skill options.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 03:14 PM

Also, the spellcasting or manifesting options, even at half-progression, is massively more powerful than the BAB, HD, or skill options.

Yes, maybe, but This lets the Player further customize there character for a character more oriented to their wish.
be it fighter.
caster
Skillster.
or manifester.

If 1/2 spells is so abandoned, should I go ahead and make it full?

Zaydos

2011-05-23, 03:18 PM

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 03:22 PM

I would not allow the doubling at 20th level; because getting 20th level in a casting class + everything else is a no-no.

I would say that while they have spells known and spells per day as a sorcerer half their level they have CL = class level.

I would give them Psion powers known/power points instead of Wilder; this is more in line with Sorcerer's.

I will also ask why base them on Wisdom, since many anime maids are rather ditzy, and not Charisma, which would seem one of their primary stats.

I'll also have that part of inner Power, they choose their main abilities. (For wise characters, intelligent characters, charismatic characters, ect)
Right, Psion. will do.
Yep. CL=Class levels. Another one of those intended but unspecified things.

Alright then, no double.

Veyr

2011-05-23, 04:20 PM

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 04:48 PM

I'd suggest combining the BAB thing with full Initiator Level and some sort of relatively slow maneuver progression, maybe with no recovery method (but qualifying for Adaptive Style). For the skill-based one... hrm. Is there some form of precision damage that would be appropriate for them? And the HD thing, you might give Rage/some type of ability that allows them to be more effective in combat when they get hurt or something?

Did you see the edit?

Inner Power:
The Maid chooses her primary ability score. Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Replace references for wisdom, with chosen ability modifier.
In edition, she chooses her Inner Power:
Fighting:
increase her Attack progression by one step. (20/15/10/5) and gets Power Attack and Cleave for free.
Magic:
gain 1/2 sorcerers spellcasting progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast spells as a tenth level sorcerer) She uses her Maid levels for Caster Levels.
Vitality:
increase her hit dice by two steps. (d12) and she doesn't suffer from negative aging effects.
Skill:
Increase her skill point increase by two steps. (10) and can reroll any failed skill check (once per check) a number of times equal to her chosen modifier.
Psionics:
gain 1/2 Psion manifestation progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd manifest powers as a tenth level Psion)
Mentalist:
gains Psychic Talent, and two Psychic skills for free, as well as 15 skill points to spend in psychic related skills.
Healer:
Gain 1/2 Cleric spell progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast prayers as a tenth level cleric).

If so then I'll try to understand what you said...
I could use suggestions for each individual Power.

Veyr

2011-05-23, 07:36 PM

I had not, but it doesn't really change what I meant: I would add to the Fighter version the ability to use martial maneuvers from Tome of Battle. It would be fitting and give something a little more useful than just BAB.

The Skill one is better... I'm not sure a bunch of skill rerolls will be enough, though.

Vitality... is a bit too good for a dip (free +3 to all mental stats, yay!), though there are easier ways to do that, but not particularly useful to a Maid 20 (since without one of the spellcasting options, she won't be making so much use from those abilities I think).

The Mentalist one seems really weak, and also kind of vague: which skills are "psychic"? Do you mean Autohypnosis, Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device? At 1st level you can have a max of 4 ranks in each, for a total of 16 skill points: you automatically max all but one, which is at 3/4? That seems... a bit strange.

Debihuman

2011-05-23, 08:02 PM

You updated Bonus Feats, but the chart still shows them as gained every even level instead of every 4th level.

Inner Powers are potentially game breaking in spots. Its probably too skills heavy. I really hate that give you give out other classes' features to the Maid. This prevents the base classes from keeping their novelty. I think this should be gained later than 1st level. It give out too much stuff especially when combined with the other benefits the Maid has.

You state under Contract Bound that the Maid loses her class features if she removes her uniform but what if she only removes part of her uniform. What if someone else removes her uniform? What if her master asks her to wear something else?

Debby

DracoDei

2011-05-23, 08:09 PM

I feel the need to archive a copy since I am worried that cascading changes might take this too far from the original vision.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/anaraquekl/anime/mai%20otome/mai-otome-calendario2.jpg
The Maid
"Yes master"
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Lesser Retrieve Object, Contract Bound, Acrobatics, Sense Danger, Prestidigitation. Master!, Inner Power.

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Bonus Feat, Perfect Posture
3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Lesser Sense Master. Locate Object

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4| Cooking Expertise

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Sense Master, Ambidexterity. Lesser Sleepless

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Uniform Synchronization, For my Master

8th|
+6/1|
+2|
+6|
+6| Sleepless

9th|
+6/1|
+3|
+6|
+6|Sense Master, Locate Object

10th|
+7/2|
+3|
+7|
+7|Bonus Feat, Retrieve Object, Evasion, Greater Prestidigitation.

11th|
+8/3|
+3|
+7|
+7|Maid's Knowledge, Telepathic Link

12th|
+9/4|
+4|
+8|
+8| Improved Uncanny Dodge,

13th|
+9/4|
+4|
+8|
+8|Improved Uniform Synchronization, More then a Maid

14th|
+10/5|
+4|
+9|
+9|Bonus Feat, Locate Object

15th|
+11/6/1|
+5|
+9|
+9|Greater Sense Master, Greater Danger Sense

16th|
+12/7/2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Greater Sleepless

17th|
+12/7/2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Master's Call, Masters Wish

18th|
+13/8/3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Bonus Feat, Greater Locate Object

19th|
+14/9/4|
+6|
+11|
+11|Reassuring Presence, Uniform synchronization greater

20th|
+15/10/5|
+6|
+12|
+12| Greater Retrieve Object, Master of Myself, Grand Prestidigitation. [/table]

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6+Int (x4 at 1st level)
Class Skills: Appraise, Autohypnosis, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather, Heal, Information, Jump, Knowledge (Nobility/Royalty), Knowledge (Local), and one other Knowledge relating to current master, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble and Use Rope.

Class Features:
Weapons and Armor:
The Maid is not proficient with any armor or shields, but they are proficient with all simple weapons, and one weapon of masters choice. This can be any logical thing from a Frying Pan (like a club) Rubber Chicken (Non lethal damage anyone?) to Katana, spear, lance, or shuriken but not something illogical like a Cat. A normally not-weapon item is treated as a normal weapon for the masters chosen item. (No penalties for "Improvised Weapon")

Contract Bound:
The Maid looses all class features when she is not employed and she cannot own any objects not given to her by a master (Past or otherwise) If she intentionally does anything against her master, or disobeys her master, she must seek Atonement before she can regain her class features, so long as shes employed. A Maid cannot quit. Her master has to die, or release her. If the master dies, she receives five negative levels though this cannot kill her and they recover normally. She receives 3 permanent ability damage to each score, and requires an Atonement spell from any caster capable of using it before she can make a new contract. at which time she regains 2 ability points though they cannot exceed the ability points lost at the time of her last masters death but does not regain lost levels if they became permanent.
Making the contract: To make a contract requires one full minute during which the maid sheds her previous attire and dons the uniform of her new master in a magical display with lots of glowing, and an equal amount of nudity. The Master in the mean time signs her name on a shining parchment that appears before her. Once complete, the Master has access to Atonement which can only be used on the Maid, but is usable as a free action, and she is now attached to the Maid by an absolute bond.
The master chooses to bestow on the Maid a single Exotic Weapon, this choice cannot be changed unless she releases the maid and redoes the contract. The Maid gains proficiency with the new weapon and can summon it easily with Retrieve Object no matter the size.
She cannot have an already existing master.

The Maid Must wear her uniform. She looses her features if she takes them off unless she does so with the intent to change into another. (They can't wear the same uniform 24/7 now can they)
When in their Uniform, They gain their Wisdom modifier to AC, Wis +1 at fifth, +2 at Tenth, +4 at fifteenth, and +8 at twenty. These stack with Uniform Synchronization.
The Uniform Cannot be worn under armor in most classes (if they happen to be proficient in any) Unless the uniform designated by the Master is some sort of skintight suit.
Last Words:
The Master can make a final command, usually done when they expect to die or such.
If he does so, he looses his contract with the Maid but the maid is under an effect similar to a less painful Geas/Quest though it cannot be dispelled. The Maid is sickened each day she does not go about completing the last words, after a week, she starts gaining negative levels (until level 1) a month later, the negative levels start getting permanent one by one, day by day.
If she takes a new Master in the mean time, She only gets sickened, and must still complete the Last Words. The Last Words are now capable of being eliminated by a Break Enchantment or higher spell.
If she looses her contract through use of Last Words, She retains her Class Features for 24 hours. If she goes about completing the Last Words, she continues to retain the Last Words for another 24 hours if at least Six Hours is dedicated to completing the Last Words. The maid instinctively knows if shes about to lose her Class Features, If she looses her self or something, she'd get a silent, mental warning she needs to get back on track or loose her features.

Retrieve Object:
As a free action, The Maid can recall an item or creature that the Maid or Master possesses permanently (The same item/creature being summoned, not creating a new one), Or an item not owned, which disappears in 5 minutes/ Maid level. Owned items can be don't matter for wealth restrictions as long as the Maid or Master owns it. Maid cannot conjure creatures the master doesn't own.
At first level, The Maid can call Small or lower objects and creatures. Such as a Tea Cup, a Dagger, A cat, ect. As its non-living, and Non-Sentient and not worth more then her masters total wealth divided by four.
At level Ten, The Maid can conjure any Medium or smaller object, such as a Chair, a Sword, or a boar, ect. and can conjure any item not worth her masters total wealth divided by two.
At level Twenty, The Maid can conjure any Huge or smaller object, such as a Table, a Balista, or a Frost Worm. She can now also conjure living things with an intelligence score of less then five. And can conjure at her masters full wealth.
Retrieve Object cannot conjure special or specific items. Such as a Magic sword, or a unique object like "Bob's favorite shirt" unless the unique/magic item is her masters or one of the Maids personal objects given to her by a master.
Note about retrieving creatures:
You can only conjure creatures you or your master owns. And even if your master owns it, you can not conjure a creature with more HD then you have Maid levels, and with more INT then 1/2 your INT score rounded down.

Acrobatics:
The Maid gains 1/2 her class levels to Jump, Tumble, Climb, and Balance checks.

Prestidigitation:
a first level maid can use Prestidigitation at will, only changes last until they fade normally or are messed up again.
Greater Prestidigitation:
a Maid of Tenth level can clean and color items in a 10 foot cube, rather then 1 foot.
They can also put larger items to order in a five foot cube, such as clean that kids mess of toys. Larger items returning to where they belong if it is in the area of effect, such as a toy box, while simple filth is just eliminated.
Grand Prestidigitation:
A Maid of twentieth level can clean and color items in a 50 foot cube, rather then 10 feet.
They can also put larger items to order in a twenty five foot cube, and the effect is now linked with the Maids Retrieve object ability, only a bit different. Items cleaned return to wherever they belong in a nice orderly, teleportational manner, even if the item in question is anywhere on the same plane in the Masters mansion because he left his favorite pen in his pocket by incident.

Master!:
The maid at level one gains the following:
Any time when the Maid is within 10 feet of the Master, she can, as an immediate action, take a hit for the master. She must be aware of the at tack and not flat footed. she can only save the Master this way.
She can also use an effect similar to taunt as a free action, rolling 1d20+Cha+ 1/2 maid levels vs a will save. If she succeeds, the subject becomes focused on the Maid but attacks otherwise normally.
Greater Master!
a maid of tenth level can cast Maid's Sanctuary on the Master as a movement equivalent action, at will. Only effects the Master. a Maid's Sanctuary is different from "Sanctuary" in that it renders the subject dislocated from reality. Area effects pass right through them, And the only way to attack them is directly, if they beat a will save equal to 15+ Maid level.
In edition, she can take hits for any ally.
Grand Master!
a maid of fifteenth level can cast "Cloud Mind, Mass" on all within a 30 feet radius of the designated area (which is within 400 feet + 50/maid level) The only effect this Cloud Mind can produce is render them incapable of perceiving the Master. The save for this is the same as Maid's Sanctuary and Both effects are unaffected by Spell resistance, and treat Spell Immunity as having a SR of 30.
In edition, She can use Maid's Sanctuary on any ally.

Sense Danger:
The Maid adds her Wisdom score to her Armor class, Reflex saves, and can sense when something of her master's is in danger, including herself and her master. Such as "Master's carriage".
You cannot be surprised, and you accurately know the danger enough to quickly react to it. Such as taking an arrow/bullet for your master (or trying to block or deflect it somehow) You don't know exactly what it is, or anything other then "Small projectile en route for the masters head"
At level fifteen, She knows the dangers more accurately. "Poisoned Arrow is being fired from the top right window of the overlooking building. Will fire in five...four...-"

Inner Power:
The Maid chooses her primary ability score. Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. Replace references for wisdom, with chosen ability modifier.
In edition, she chooses her Inner Power:
Fighting:
increase her Attack progression by one step. (20/15/10/5) and gets Power Attack and Cleave for free. They are use to dealing pain. they get +1/4th class levels to damage. but suffer -1/4th class levels to healing effects they may produce somehow. Once per day equal to their chosen modifier they can produce one of two effects. They can make a full attack at the end of a charge or simple move action, Or make an attack against all surrounding enemies at her highest modifier. In edition, they gain bonus feats at every even instead of every four.
Magic:
gain 1/2 sorcerers spellcasting progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast spells as a tenth level sorcerer) She uses her Maid levels for Caster Levels. They gain a single animal in a manner similar to a familiar. Only it is not magical, its merely intelligent and obeys you. useful for a friend, but not much else. They're intelligent enough to write or perform almost human actions, such as lifting the seat before they relieve themselves in a civilized manner. this pet has a 6th sense as to where its master is as well as the maids master.
Vitality:
increase her hit dice by two steps. (d12) and she doesn't suffer from negative aging effects. She automatically stabilizes when dying, Immune to Poison and Disease, Negative levels (When master dies, you lose class features, therefor level loss from that still counts against you). And heal 1 point of ability damage a round, but not ability drain which merely heals over time at 1 point per day. She takes x1.5 effect from healing effects, and gains regeneration 5/Negative energy and fast healing 1
Skill:
Increase her skill point increase by two steps. (10) take any skill as a class skill and can reroll any failed skill check (once per check) a number of times equal to her chosen modifier. They also get +20 lump skill points to spend at first level and can Rank skills out to Level +5 rather then level +3.
Psionics:
gain 1/2 Psion manifestation progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd manifest powers as a tenth level Psion) She uses her Maid levels for Manifester levels. They gain a pet rock. the rock can speak telepathically to the Psionic Maid (but they can't return a comment telepathically unless they do so through a power), and is intelligent. Its aware of its surroundings, but is otherwise useless besides being a nice friend. Might want to be careful avoiding "Wtf" looks from people who see you talking to a rock. To avoid loosing Rocky, the P-Maid is always be aware of its position...
Mentalist:
gains Psychic Talent, and two Psychic skills for free, as well as 15 skill points to spend in psychic related skills. Every five levels she gains a new Psychic skill, and another 5 skillpoints for psychic related skills.
Healer:
Gain 1/2 Cleric spell progression, using her chosen modifier. (at level 20, she'd cast prayers as a tenth level cleric). She users her Maid levels as caster levels. When they heal, they add their 1/2 their class levels to healed damage. But Healer Maids tend to dislike fighting, they take -1/4 class levels to damaging effects they produce, be it spell or sword.

Bonus Feats:
The Maid gains bonus feats every four levels. These feats are taken from the Fighter Bonus Feats, or General.

Perfect Posture:
The Maid gains 1/2 her class levels to Bluff, Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, and Move Silently checks, and can always retain perfect posture as long as she is conscious. Thus remaining perfectly still for hours if need be, unblinking, and not reacting to anything though she's still perfectly aware of it.

Sense Master:
The Maid can "Remote View" her master as many times as her class levels divided by four plus her wisdom modifier as long as her master wishes it. The master also gains use of this Remote Viewing to view the Maid at any time. the maid has no say in the matter. If she tries to resist somehow, it is considered going against the master.
Range is 1 mile per caster level at 3rd level, 4 miles per caster level at fifth, and anywhere on the same plane at level fifteen.

Locate Object:
The Maid can locate any object the Master desires within class level x500 feet. (To a range of 10,000 feet at level 20. or 1 mi. and 4719 feet.)

Cooking Expertise:
The Maid become adept at providing for her masters needs. She gains + 1/2 class levels to Craft: Cooking, Perform (cook), Craft: Alchemy, and Craft: Poisonmaking checks.
She can always take ten on such checks, and can improvise tools with no penalty (Though she could simply retrieve such tools)

Ambidexterity:
The maid can use either hand with equal proficiency. Halving any penalties for two handed actions.

Sleepless:
The Maid has trained herself to function on less sleep.
At 5th level, the Maid requires only four hours of sleep, but is considered to have a full eight hours of rest for all effects relating to it. Maids still require eight hours of sleep to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.
At 8th level, she needs only four hours of Meditation. She needs no sleep and is immune to mundane fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep effects. Maids still require eight hours of rest to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.
At 16th level, she needs no rest. She is immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and sleep effects mundane or otherwise. Maids now only need four hours of meditation to replenish any spellcasting or daily abilities.

Uncanny Dodge:
The Maid gains the Uncanny Dodge feature as a Barbarian. She retains dex bonus when she would normally be denied it, Not including helplessness.
She gains Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 12.

Uniform Synchronization:
The Maid has become so adapt in wearing her Uniform, She gains a +1 to all physical actions while wearing it, and a +2 moral bonus on will saves. any penalties for a heavy/armored uniform (could happen) are eliminated. The Maid gains +10ft speed, +2 reflex, +2 Initiative, and gains a +2 bonus to Armor class.
At 13th level, The Maid gains a +5 moral bonus on Will saves and doubles her base speed. The Maid gains +4 Reflex, +4 Initiative, and +4 Armor Class.
At 19th level, The Maid gain +8 moral bonus on Will saves and triples her base speed. She gains +10 Reflex, +10 Initiative and +10 Armor Class.

For my Master:
The Maid gain her class levels to will saves that would cause her to directly go against her master.

Maids Knowledge:
The Maid knows the likes and dislikes of anyone she must serve. Will save applies if they don't wish this knowledge to be known
DC 10 +1/2 class level + Wis

Telepathic Link:
A Maid of eleventh level gains a telepathic link with her master that functions as long as they are on the same plane, and neither of them are blocked. The Master can choose not to allow the Maid to communicate with her. But the Maid has no choice if her master wishes to communicate.

More then a Maid:
The Maid gains +10 to Profession (Escort), and Diplomacy She now has more free will, and can question master's orders within reason without it considered as going against the master.

Master's Call:
The Maid can teleport to her masters side when he wishes it no matter the distance and through Dimensional Locks. Master can then Dismiss her to send her back to wherever she was if need be. She has no choice in the retrieval, but can choose if she wishes to go back.

Master's Wish:
The Maid can use Limited Wish as a supernatural ability a number of times per day equal to 1/4 her class levels + her Wisdom modifier. With no XP cost.
She can only use it to fulfill a wish of her master and not for personal means. Master's Wish is unaffected by Master of Myself and the Master cannot know of this ability. Masters may think it, but they cannot know it. If they do, the ability no longer functions.

Reassuring Presence:
The presence of the maid is enough to inspire others. The Master gains +5 to will saves to resist fear, break through enchantments, and cant be effected from spells such as "Nightmare" or any other spell/power to prevent restful sleep.

Master of Myself:
The Maid can function without a Master, She treats herself as the master for all such effects.
If she still has a Master, she uses him as normal, and Cannot go against him as normal but she can act on her own will otherwise.
She no longer needs a Contract. Though not having a contract makes a few things useless, such as Master's Call.

Epic Progression:
{table=head]Level|Special

21st|-Greater Masters Call

22nd|Bonus Feat

23rd| Greatest Retrieve Object.

24th|Bonus Feat,

25th|Greater Masters Wish[/table]

Epic Features:

Masters Call, Greater:
The Maid can now, at will, teleport to her masters side and back to the destination she came from.

Greatest Retrieve Object:
The Maid can conjure objects as with the past retrieve objects. But of up to gargantuan size, or up to Small magic items.

Masters Wish, Greater:
As Masters Wish, But as Wish instead of Limited Wish.

Inner Power sorcerer spell progression:
{table=head]Level|Spells per Day|Spells Known
1st|0=5, 1=3|0=4, 1=2
3rd|0=6, 1=4|0=5. 1=2
5th|0=6, 1=5|0=5. 1=3
7th|0=6, 1=6, 2=3|0=6, 1=3. 2=1
9th|0=6, 1=6, 2=4|0=6, 1=4, 2=2
11th|0=6, 1=6, 2=5, 3=3|0=7. 1=4, 2=2. 3=1
13th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=4|0=7, 1=5, 2=3, 3=2
15th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=5, 4=3|0=8, 1=5, 2=3, 3=2, 4=1
17th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=6, 4=4|0=8, 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2
19th|0=6, 1=6, 2=6, 3=6, 4=5. 5=3|0=9, 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2, 5=1 [/table]

The Maid
"Yes master"
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|Lesser Retrieve Object, Contract Bound, Acrobatics, Sense Danger

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Bonus Feat, Perfect Posture
3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Lesser Sense Master. Locate Object

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Bonus Feat, Cooking Expertise

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|Sense Master, Ambidexterity. Lesser Sleepless

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+5|Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+5|
+5|Uniform Synchronization, For my Master

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+6|Bonus Feat, Sleepless

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+6|
+6|Sense Master, Locate Object

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+7|
+7|Bonus Feat, Retrieve Object, Evasion

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+7|
+7|Maid's Knowledge, Telepathic Link

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+8|
+8|Bonus Feat, Improved Uncanny Dodge,

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+8|
+8|Improved Uniform Synchronization, More then a Maid

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+9|
+9|Bonus Feat, Locate Object

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+9|
+9|Greater Sense Master, Greater Danger Sense

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+10|
+10|Bonus Feat. Greater Sleepless

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10| Master's Call, Masters Wish

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+11|Bonus Feat, Greater Locate Object

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|Reassuring Presence, Uniform synchronization greater

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|Bonus Feat, Greater Retrieve Object, Master of Myself[/table]

D12 HD.
6 skill.
Full attack bonus.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 08:23 PM

Vitality... is a bit too good for a dip (free +3 to all mental stats, yay!), though there are easier ways to do that, but not particularly useful to a Maid 20 (since without one of the spellcasting options, she won't be making so much use from those abilities I think).

You keep mentioning Dipping. Really, its not much of a problem. Their still bound by Contract if they want to keep any dipping they get.

The Mentalist one seems really weak, and also kind of vague: which skills are "psychic"? Do you mean Autohypnosis, Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device? At 1st level you can have a max of 4 ranks in each, for a total of 16 skill points: you automatically max all but one, which is at 3/4? That seems... a bit strange.
You don't know Psychics then. Its a separate, alternate system, kinda like Psionics.

You updated Bonus Feats, but the chart still shows them as gained every even level instead of every 4th level.

What? It hasn't showed that for ages now.

Inner Powers are potentially game breaking in spots. Its probably too skills heavy. I really hate that give you give out other classes' features to the Maid. This prevents the base classes from keeping their novelty. I think this should be gained later than 1st level. It give out too much stuff especially when combined with the other benefits the Maid has.

The skills would really be all a Skill Maid has, this is where they get something want in the class for some non-master features. Beyond skills, a Skills Maid is pretty much glued to the master.

You state under Contract Bound that the Maid loses her class features if she removes her uniform but what if she only removes part of her uniform. What if someone else removes her uniform? What if her master asks her to wear something else?

Debby
She must wear her Uniform. However, I'm working on something for the Master which will help in that area.
Also a Maid with Master of Myself can designate what ever uniform she wishes.

Veyr

2011-05-23, 09:03 PM

I really hate that give you give out other classes' features to the Maid. This prevents the base classes from keeping their novelty.
Huh? Which of these are the class feature's of other classes? A halved spell or psionic progression is hardly gaining the features of those classes, seeing as, ya know, it's halved.

Though the question does arise: what happens at 1st for those classes? Do those features just wait until 2nd? That's probably fine, but maybe a few cantrips/orisons would be appropriate. They removed the Psionic Talents, which is frustrating, though... Maybe just a Power Point or two just so they count as Psionic at 1st?

I think this should be gained later than 1st level. It give out too much stuff especially when combined with the other benefits the Maid has.
Err... am I the only one who really thinks that the 'other benefits' of the Maid are really minimal? A bunch of numbers and bonus feats isn't that impressive, the Fighter proved that.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-23, 10:33 PM

Though the question does arise: what happens at 1st for those classes? Do those features just wait until 2nd? That's probably fine, but maybe a few cantrips/orisons would be appropriate. They removed the Psionic Talents, which is frustrating, though... Maybe just a Power Point or two just so they count as Psionic at 1st?

Look again, near the bottom but before The Master, It shows progression of spells as Sorcerer for a Maid. I didn't do it for Psion or Cleric, but its a good guideline.
First level is just like a first level. Which may or may not be good, as I can see people mixing up a first level Magical Maid and a Sorcerer.... But I don't care :P

and though they only have up to level 5, and one level five at that. They still use the same spell list for effects demanding they have to have the spell in their list to use something.

Cipher Stars

2011-05-24, 12:12 AM

Alright, I just got the Tomb of Battle, and I see what the Maneuvers that keep getting mentioned are. I'll have to keep reading before I change anything though.

Hazzardevil

2011-06-02, 08:40 AM

May I create a few variations of the Maid? I'll give you credit for it.

Cipher Stars

2011-06-02, 12:43 PM

Sure, go ahead.

Cipher Stars

2011-06-05, 05:45 PM

Clarified on Inner Power: Fighter.
The maid can draw from any two maneuver styles whether it be white raven or some homebrew accepted by DM.

Cipher Stars

2011-06-09, 09:27 PM

Made a redo on "The Master" PrC, changing it into the base class: The Maidlord

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202554

Benly

2011-06-10, 01:25 PM

Does the Fighting maid get any maneuver recovery method? Also, how many of her maneuvers does she have readied? Is she assumed to have them all readied, but with no recovery?

Cipher Stars

2011-06-10, 01:35 PM

Does the Fighting maid get any maneuver recovery method? Also, how many of her maneuvers does she have readied? Is she assumed to have them all readied, but with no recovery?

I didn't mention that? ... nope *facepalm*

fixing.

Benly

2011-06-10, 02:24 PM

A couple of other questions:

Does the Healing maid get domains? (Since "casting as a cleric" might or might not include a domain slot.)

Does a magical maid under the effect of a Maidlord's Maid Control (increasing effective maid level) gain spells known/per day? This applies to healing maids, psionic maids, and fighting maids as well in various ways.

The spellcasting/psionic options seem a little weak, although obviously full casting would be a bit much. I would actually suggest that the magical maids get spells known and per day using the bard table, using their choice of class list and casting stat instead of the bard list - that way, they don't get the full ninth-level casting of a wizard, but they aren't stuck learning their first fifth-level spell at level 20 either. The "familiars", healer bonus/penalty and so on would be keyed to the choice of spell list, but use a unified mechanic for all of them.

(This would also open the option of a gardener maid who uses the druid list. :smallsmile:)

Cipher Stars

2011-06-10, 02:28 PM

Benly

2011-06-10, 02:31 PM

Yea... I'll add a Druidic maid.

No, I don't see why it would. All the Maidlord does is increase their caster level, not character level.

Then it should probably be clarified under the Maidlord. As it stands, it's not clear which abilities do and do not benefit.

(This also makes the upgrade to bard casting a bit more important, since you don't have the "cling close to Master" option for making your spells relevant.)

Cipher Stars

2011-06-10, 02:43 PM

Then it should probably be clarified under the Maidlord. As it stands, it's not clear which abilities do and do not benefit.

(This also makes the upgrade to bard casting a bit more important, since you don't have the "cling close to Master" option for making your spells relevant.)

Its as clear as I think I can get. I believe I stated you in crease the maid's effective level while not touching character level, effecting things such as caster level, or Level for level dependent abilities (like if an ability did an extra damage die per level)